Empirical results from quantum mechanics are objective observations. The fact that you choose to dismiss the logical implications of the those observations highlights your bias.


Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis. I functioned very well as a atheist in society for decades most of my adult life in fact. I abandoned that position once it became apparent that it was logically untenable.


Ahh and who gets to decide who the innately good people are?

Who gets to decide who to sent to those re-education camps you want and what books need burning. You because of your innate goodness?

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

I am simply highlighting your self-imposed miosis. You base your determination of objective facts on your materialism yet refuse to consider challenges to that materialist foundation.

Your concerns about religious tyranny in a theocratic state are of course valid. Humans corrupt every institution we partake in and vesting ultimate state power in any centralized church run by man can lead to no outcome other then eventual corruption of said church and tyranny. The founders of the US understood this well which is why they both guaranteed religious freedom and prohibited an official state religion in the first amendment of the constitution.


You appear to have bought into the progressive delusion that humans are basically good and if we all just embrace our inner humanity we can all sing songs together in harmony.

The reality is that humans are not inherently good. We are innately infused with great evil. That ultimately is part of the message of the Old Testament you so misunderstand. It tells us that all humans even the best of us are inherently flawed and capable of great evil. It also lays out a framework via which said evils can be mitigated and perhaps someday rectified.

You are already on record as in favor of forcibly removing children from the homes of religious parents and placing them in re-education camps. Now you want book burnings too? You will make a good foot soldier when the next tyranny rises its head.


You sound like one of the scientists who loudly proclaimed space was full of Luminiferous Aether or the confident proponent of Phrenology standing tall with his tape measure.

The reality is that your firm foundation of facts are not nearly as certain as you proclaim.

1. Earth is not flat.

The entire universe including the Earth might be flat.
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

2. Earth is billions of years old.

Time itself may be an illusion and the age of the earth depends on your frame of reference.
TIME is an ILLUSION
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQxMowBsw

3. Nobody created the universe or life on Earth.

This is your religion and your conclusion has not been proven by science nor does it have anything to do with science.

Actually the only truth you know is materialism. The objective facts are in dispute.

Materialists such as yourself are often herded into a form of rationalized self-annihilation that is deeply deeply tied to the corruption of modernity BADecker highlighted in his most recent post.

Here is an article that discusses this downward spiral. The portion on willful self-annihilation is particularly relevant.

Old Left-New Left... Modernity-Postmodernity - surface changes masking a constant deep motivation against God
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2018/12/old-left-new-left-modernity.html?m=1

What is the 'truth' I am talking about?

For the purposes of this immediate and specific conversation it is the following.

Materialism is false.

No I advise following the Judeo-Christian tradition.

This is the tradition that holds the following up as the ultimate rule, purpose and message of the Bible.

Christianity: Matthew 7:12
"So  everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Judaism: Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

See: Superrationality and the Infinite

Now you can choose to reject that truth and get hung up over some esoteric detail of the brutal tribal realities of ages past. However, in doing so you reject the greatest force for freedom in history. You leave both yourself and your offspring vulnerable to future slavery in service to whatever technological or ideological tyranny comes along next.

That is your choice to make.

Freedom comes from moral self-control. There is no other way to achieve it.

The West especially Europe has forgotten this which is why freedom is now in decline throughout the western world. If you look at our current secular society and don't see the stagnation increasing corruption and intellectual incoherence and yes declining freedom then you have closed your eyes to reality.

This video from Prager University highlightes this point well.

Freedom and Moral Self-Control

There are all sorts of historical and tyrannical regimes founded in religion. From ancient Egypt which invested tyrannical powers in their god king Pharoh to modern day North Korea which proclaims divine proprieties in its leader Kim Jong-Un.

What is common to all of these tyrannical regimes is their incompatibility with the Judeo-Christian tradition. This is why every tyranny eventually turns its arrows or guns on Christians and Jews. They represent an existential threat to tyranny.

Christians in case you didn't know are the most persecuted group in the world currently. Last year approximately 100,000 Christians were killed because of their beliefs.

This has happened before and will happen again. Every tyrannical regime seeks to suppress belief in God for belief in God and the laws that derive from that belief ultimately undermine tyrannical control.

Thus belief in God must be attacked or at least twisted and controlled by any seeking to impose a coercive system upon humanity.

There been an increase in temperature over recent decades that is established scientific fact. The global measured increase is just under 1 degree centigrade over the last 100 years or so.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/GlobalWarming/page2.php

The idea that the warming is caused by human activity, however, is unproven theory.

We know from the historical record that there have been large swings in temperature in the distant past long before mankind could have had any appreciable impact on the climate.

The default hypothesis should thus be that observed temperature variations are not caused by humans until we have ruled out external factors like cyclical variations solar output or orbital mechanics as a primary cause.

Did you know that Mars is currently undergoing global warming too?
https://m.washingtontimes.com

Man made global warming is a theory one that is widely accepted by climate scientists. It's also probably false.

If you want to understand what is actually going to happen with climate in the next few decades I really do recommend watching Professor Zharkova video above her research and reproducible model is in my opinion a genuine scientific breakthrough.

You can already see the signs of retreat. The global warming salesman know they will soon be exposed as charlatans. That is why global warming has morphed into "Climate Change". I will laugh if it goes full on Orwellian and we start hearing about how man made CO2 is causing global cooling.

Scientific theories are only the best explanation for something if they are arrived at from a genuine objective search for truth rather then an attempted to secure funding or drive an agenda. Even then they only represent the most plausible answer based on our current information. Other possibilities exists and it is always a mistake to confuse theory with fact.

God is an a priori Truth. If you take the time to learn epistemology you will learn that all knowledge including scientific knowledge has a priori at its foundation.

It is no coincidence that the corruption of modern science is occurring simultaneously with the rise of atheism among scientists.

Actually it looks like global warming is predominantly caused by natural cycles in the sun that will soon enter a minimum and cause cause global cooling.


A fascinating presentation and well worth the 90 minutes.

Not sure the Pope is the best source to be citing for moral clarity. He is not widly regarding outside of Catholic circles and even withing Catholicism his standing is rapidly diminishing for various reasons.

Pope Francis’ approval rating plummets among Catholics
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-approval-rating-plummets-among-american-catholics-in-response


michaelkelly8798 raises a fair point about scientific theories. Many people grab onto whatever scientific theory is currently in vogue and proclaim it as absolute truth. Often this is a way for the slower minded to avoid thinking about a topic. They just want to be told the answer. People who just want to be told the answer often get upset and angry when an answer they have already accepted is questioned.

Uncorrupted science is a search for truth. Plausible ideas and concepts that are not incompatible with current observations are scientific theories. Proven reproducible facts are scientific laws. Theories are often wrong no matter how many scientists ascribe to them. The trashcan of history is full of discarded theories that were once widely embraced by scientists.

The best modern example I can think of is the current scare mongering over man made global warming. The media, the majority of climate scientists, and indeed even the Pope are on record proclaiming that we are cooking the planet and to question this narrative is to be anti-science and worthy of public shamming.

The reality however is that there are very compelling reasons to doubt this uniform presentation of doom. It just takes a genuine scientist and a superior idea to do so.
 
Professor Valentina Zharkova is a tenured professor Mathematician and Astrophysicist. Her model of solar cycles is entirely reproducible, and accurately accounts for prior global temperature variations with a greater then 90% accuracy. It also almost entirely repudiates the current global warming narrative so it is ignored.

Professor Valentina Zharkova: The Solar Magnet Field and the Terrestrial Climate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yqIj38UmY&feature=youtu.be

How many people will take the 90 minutes to watch Professor Zharkova's presentation?  Very few most will prefer to just be told the answer by the media the Pope or whoever else is whispering in their ear.

Truth is like that. Often hidden away in the background present but not demanding or forceful. It patiently waits for people to get tired of their current falsehood and approach it when they are ready.

Not sure highlighting your ability to use curse words and vulgar language in spanish highlights intellectual superiority to the degree you were going for here af-newbie.

Ok so you don't think for yourself and let others do that for you.

Got it.

Yes Dennis Prager was initially opposed to President Trump.
He is also on record as admitting that he was wrong to do so.

Dennis Prager: I was Wrong, Trump is a Great President.
https://conservativepost.com/dennis-prager-i-was-wrong-donald-trump-is-a-great-president/

Why exactly do you feel this makes him illegitimate? The man takes a position and when he realizes he has errored corrects himself and publicly acknowledges the mistake.

Your understanding of the Bible is deeply flawed.

I recommend the following book should you desire to understand the Bible whose verses trigger you so. Or continue in ignorance at your discretion.

https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Bible-Exodus-Dennis-Prager/dp/1621577724

The overwhelming majority of human suffering is induced by the evils of our fellow human beings. It comes about as a result of the human freedom to be evil and make poor choices. This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.

The small remnant of suffering independent of man is the result of our ignorance limited science and lack of knowledge. This portion of suffering naturally trends towards zero over time as knowledge and technology advance.

That would depend on the nature and purpose of hell. Is it's ultimate purpose torture or rectification punishment or purification.

A constant theme of the Bible is the conversation of evil to good. In Christianity an example of this is the cross. One of the most evil and horrifying torture devices of antiquity transformed into a symbol of hope that indisputably forever altered the trajectory of history.

For this reason and others I favor the rectification/purification perspective.

Any existence beyond death is unearned. All we have earned is oblivion. An afterlife would be a gift of grace one we certainly do not deserve.

The difference here is that the robber is taking from you by force weakening maybe even killing you.

An afterlife would be the opposite process an unearned gift making you stronger and extending your existence long after it would have run its natural course into oblivion.


God could certainly could have done that. He could also have made a universe without any freedom where everything just played itself out in a predetermined manner like a rock falling to the ground.

Instead he created an ordered open universe where everything seems possible and freedom is maximized. Great error is permitted and belief is not compelled. That is in my humble opinion a far grander accomplishment.

Obey or be killed. The choice shared by all slaves throughout history.

Yes you are a free man. You live in a deterministic universe yet you are free. You fail to see the miracle in that which is your perogrative.

If you were denied the ability to reject God whatever the circumstances you would not ultimately be free.


Do you feel like a slave? Do you feel you have no choice?

Or do you feel you were given a choice evaluated the data and made a decision?

Say God came to you personally via YouTube or whatever format you found convincing gave you personal commands after informing you that you as the creator of the universe his will is paramount.

In that circumstance would you be a free man or a slave?

You would be a slave compelled by a power greater then you. By not compelling our belief God grants us freedom. We are free to accept God or reject him.

When we genuinely look for God he is easily found in the miracles of daily life all around us. Similarly when we truly reject God he becomes all but invisible to us and we are left alone to swim in a sea of nihilism.