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Notice how Josh/Inaba completely dodges the question of why they are selling November/December 2013 to their investors when they have already admitted the product will not realistically ship until January of 2014.
He also dodged the question of what changed in the last 3 days that caused a 2 month delay?
Sockpuppets gotta sock?
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Wait... let me get this straight... now people are complaining that I'm giving an estimate on when you'll receive your product if you order now and I'm not being optimistic enough about it, immediately after complaining that my previous estimates were too optimistic? And ya'll wonder why people think some of you are completely insane.
When people order, you tell them November/December on the order page. Yet you just delayed that date by 2 months to January 2014. What changed in the last 3 days that caused a 2 month delay? Why are you choosing to hide this new delay from your customers when they order? |
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No, that confirms that you're an idiot. It also confirms there is an "edit shout" button in the shoutbox.
But I wouldn't expect you to understand simple concepts like an "edit" button or anything, since advanced concepts like general understanding of the world around you are so far beyond you as to be laughable. By all means, continue to show what a moron you are.
BFL_Josh : I think I hit hte wrong key when I was replying and it sent as him... not sure how that's possible
Really? An edit shout button? The button you supposedly didn't know existed until after you had to explain your sock puppetry? First a 2 month delay in Monarch 3 days after you announce it, then you get caught with a sock puppet. |
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Wow, BFL is already starting up with their tried and true scammer MO for their new product. Officially monarch is shipping in December and unofficially it's going to be a forever. Plus they're already whining about how many were ordered? At least now they needn't deal with those pesky CC and PP chargebacks initiated by investors when they finally recognize they've been scammed.
It is also telling that even if we assume BFL timeline is realistic AND they are able to keep it AND don't run into any engineering challenges that the main batch of chips won't be delivered until late January early February. So to still advertise the product for delivery in December when EVEN IF they meet their schedule is an impossibility for all but the first couple orders is just scammy. The ROI% for December delivery is questionable (although who knows how long difficulty can grow exponentially I think it will become linear "soon") but the ROI% for February delivery is solidly negative. Just keep in mind that February wouldn't be a delay it would be a best case scenario. But, but, ... shiny!   |
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You should post the entire log of that conversation. It is far more convincing.
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I believe the mining community is about to go through a real tough spot and once we get through it, we will overall have less miners but more hash-rate. Basically we are going to see operating costs for miners get to a point where we will see miners that have higher operating costs get bumped out and new hardware will absorb their hashing. This will produce more concentration of mining and people who have scale and low operating costs will win "at" the expense of others. Zero-sum game.
Bitcoin mining went through this sort of thing a while back when the price crashed down to $2.50. Certain GPU rigs were now costing more in electricity to run than they were generating in Bitcoin. However, the price rose again and there was new life (very long life as it turned out) for those GPU mining rigs. Another rise in the exchange rate could buy more time for obsolete hardware. Maybe, more likely is that new hardware will absorb it so quick you will not even notice. Ask yourself this, what would drive a major exchange rate increase at this point? That is an important question. If we have no driver that is real then it would just be speculation and that never ends well. I wasn't speaking of probabilities really. I was just describing the curve of exchange rate / cost to mine as the driver of obsolecence in the mining world. Of course, one should not depend on an exchange rate rise in order to mine. But if one comes along, it would extend the life of existing products. |
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Seems kind of useless without knc numbers.
Hashfast you are forgetting the 500th icedrill.
And I believe you can put friedcat down for a petahash by the end of the year.
The latest spreadsheet out of Avalon says there are at least 970,000 chips ordered. That is roughly ~250TH/s. Bitfury has delivered at least 40TH/s but lord knows how many pre-orders they have taken. |
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I believe the mining community is about to go through a real tough spot and once we get through it, we will overall have less miners but more hash-rate. Basically we are going to see operating costs for miners get to a point where we will see miners that have higher operating costs get bumped out and new hardware will absorb their hashing. This will produce more concentration of mining and people who have scale and low operating costs will win "at" the expense of others. Zero-sum game.
Bitcoin mining went through this sort of thing a while back when the price crashed down to $2.50. Certain GPU rigs were now costing more in electricity to run than they were generating in Bitcoin. However, the price rose again and there was new life (very long life as it turned out) for those GPU mining rigs. Another rise in the exchange rate could buy more time for obsolete hardware. |
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LOL i kinda want to say fucking told you so to the pre-orderers....but hey, they dug their own grave. That can't be right. That is Four Weeks (TM). |
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That said, you should be able to get a refund from BFL in USD.
Huh?? He mean they will convert the USD value of the product you bought to BTC based on current exchange rate if you want to request BTC refund Unless the exchange rate has fallen since then.  Then I bet they only return how many Bitcoin he paid. |
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Dozens of folks currently mining with BFL have a different viewpoint.
Of course, they paid extra to get to the front of the queue so their losses were not as severe. |
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Is there anything that will be more profitable than the Monarch (if it ever really shows up)? xCrowd, if not a scam. Timing is everything. The price of a product, however competitive means squat if a more expensive device gets a significant lead on ROI before network saturation becomes so significant later, reputedly more efficient devices are made redundant before they get a chance to compete for the customer. What I'm most confused about w.r.t. BFL and especially x-crowd. Is why pre-order at all when both are supposedly fully-funded. I mean admittedly BFL is using a delay tactic to transfer disgruntled customers. But x-crowd claim so valiantly they don't need to touch pre-order funds. But insist in collecting them anyway?! Anyone who wants a 100% pre-order instead of a 10% deposit needs the funds to finance development and/or production. |
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The only people on this subforum with first hand information about KNC are Bitcoinorama (who has actually been to their offices IIRC) and the employees of KNC.
KNC is not due to have their ASIC chip yet according to their own schedule.
Last I know, they never had a date more specific than "September 2013" to ship their devices.
I am waiting until KNC fails to deliver on a promise before I am critical of their business.
I believe their performance targets are optimistic, but possible.
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Resume padding == a "senior engineer" 2 years out of school with a bachelors degree. "Design and development of Electronic Systems, utilizing FPGA, CPLD, Microcontrollers (Atmel, ARM), Radio systems and Cryptographic protocols." FYI, iPhones "utilize" FPGAs, CPLDs, ARM, Radio Systems, and Cryptographic protocols. But, at least he has been near an FPGA. |
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You can rest assured that BFL wont be shipping Monarch in November, it's unlikely they will even have a working prototype by then based on their track record and the reality of getting tape out -> wafers ->bumping ->chip packaging done by then.
What the fuck happened to you erk ? You went from fervent BFL supporter and apologist to detractor now ? Jesus Christ. I think I just saw a pig fly by my window. A collision with reality? He must have clicked on a link somewhere. That plus 50 million difficulty can shock a person. |
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I just realized we haven't heard anything about those hardware wallets BFL was pimping a couple trade shows ago.
Wonder if that is going to ship before Monarch.
Because that is exactly what I want to do. Put all my Bitcoin in a BFL device!  |
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Ponzi scheme for sure
It's starting to resemble a Ponzi scheme. They need new orders to get the old ones out. I'm hoping I'm not a the tail end of the Ponzi scheme. Man this sucks. And today I found out from the BFL chat room that BFL is in fact managed by convicted criminals. I didn't verify this which is why I left it out of the OP but nobody objected when this was brought up so it may be true. One this is for sure, BFL was the top dog in this sector for the last 2 years and they were behaving arrogant, rude and cruel at times and their customers are not their priority - shipping bulk chips next month proves that if their attitude towards disgruntled customers and jacking their prices by nearly double didn't. They were behaving like a monopoly much too soon and maybe now they see with all the new competition that future profits won't be as juicy as they have been and not to mention everyone hates them. Given Their shitty attitude and reputation towards their customers anything is possible with these guys. I'm waiting for responses from a few attorneys in KS and hopefully I get the green light to proceed with legal action against them. Why wouldn't you persue recourse through state's attorney generals office or FTC? With a private lawsuit the best you could hope for is "winning" in 3-12 months where winning means spending more in legal fees than you could ever hope to recover. He might get to subpoena information (financials) and depose BFL employees. I would love to read those depositions. I am sure the evasions would put Neo in The Matrix to shame.  |
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Thanks for your reply PG. If you have the best interests of BFL customers at heart, e.g. if you felt customers were actually at risk from not having an FCC approved device in their living rooms, then I applaud you. If you continue to highlight the significant risks of placing a pre-order with BFL (which you do very voraciously, I have to admit!) then I also salute you.
However, if you're just upset because Josh lied to you some time in the past, or called you a name, and you end up costing people on this forum $$$ because BFL have to delay their shipments dealing with the results of your missives, or end up having to charge more for their devices, then I do find that hard to support.
Will
The issue is not about the FCC. Josh could have said that he just sent the BFL chips into have the BFL logo silk screened on them, or something equally inane. What does matter is that Josh claimed that he had a completed Jalapeno product that was just entering the certification process back in November of 2012. At that time, BFL was using this case for their Jalapeno:  Of course, since that time it has come to light that there is no way on earth they even had working chips at that point. As late as June, they were still trying to get the Singles & Mini-rig boards to work. They had to put the Jalapeno product in the Single case and it could not be powered by USB, so there is no way an original board could work. There is no way their chip could have worked using only 3-5W of USB supplied power. Josh replied to the FCC claim in that manner because Josh/Inaba had attacked his competitors in threads for not having FCC certification. So when PG called him on it, Josh either had to admit that BFL was not getting FCC certs (which would have made him a huge hypocrite) or he had to claim they were far along in the certification process (which implied the product was farther along that it could have been). Knowing the specs of BFL's chips and boards now, a Jalapeno in November 2012 form could not have existed. Thus there could not have been any process for FCC certification. Thus Josh was both a hypocrite (for attacking his competitors for not doing what BFL had no intention of doing) and a liar (for implying that BFL had a product in hand). |
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You could take 100 orders for umbrellas, deliver 15 umbrellas, keep the money for the other 85 and disappear. That is a scam, even though you shipped something.
They haven't disappeared. The scam BFL is accused of is misleading their investors into loaning BFL money in return for a small possibility of receiving a product in return.
There was no misleading. What did you think they were going to do with the pre-order money? Do you think all mining hardware companies are scams? They are all taking pre-orders. Not sure if serious. But just in case you are not just being outrageously sarcastic... BFL has not disappeared yet, but they have only delivered 15% of their backorders (less if you go by hashrate). Just like with BFL's FPGAs, they cannot deliver and are trying to convert the orders to the next generation of product for more money. That way, BFL gets another year, more cash and still don't have to deliver anything. BFL assured their investors on multiple occasions that they were NOT using the pre-order money to fund operations or development, that it was kept in separate accounts until the order had been shipped. Here is their latest message on that subject that I know of: For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business.
This has been their party line since Oct 2012. |
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