You will need to order 200 miners or more directly from the manufacturer and spend some time and invest 35 000 usd+ if you would like to buy those miners yourself at that low price.
Stocks you can trade to and get in/out of whenever you like, if you buy 200 miners yourself it's a slightly bigger operation to get in/out of a position than just typing a price and pressing a button.


Compare it with other stocks investments and you see why people buy stocks at higher than introduction price.
The expected dividend/return will be high even when you buy at 0.000002 or higher.

Lets take a few example:
==================
People buy shares in CRYPTSY for 0.2 btc a stock, it's introduction price was 0,05 btc per stock so that's 4 times the introduction price for example that people pay for it now, Cryptsy return around 0,2% per week in dividend if you bought it at 0.2 btc.

Some people even buy Vircurex stock for 0,1-0,15 btc and they have been in violation of there contract for soon 1 year now and pay 0% in monthly dividend and if you buy into vircurex then your buying a share of a company that is at -1000 btc or something if you believe there numbers.

BSVM (bitcoiin mining) people buy shares for 0,06 btc and there dividend is around 0,2% per week.
GMP(BTC mining) people buy there shares at around 0,25 btc, dividend around 0,25% per week
MGMP(BTC mining) people buy there shares at around 0.000900 btc, dividend around 0,07% per week
==================


If you run the numbers for GRID you see that you can expect a retrurn of something like 9% or possibly even up to 17% per week on this share if you bought at 0,000001. but lets count low and say:
9,00% a week at 0,000001
4,50% at 0,000002
3,00% at 0,000003
2,25% at 0,000004
1,80% at 0,000005
...
0,90% at 0,000010
0,45% at 0,000020
0,22% at 0,000040

so even if you buy in at way higher than introduction price you will still make better profit on this share than most other shares on Cryptostocks, maby that answers your question.

I get the return of investment for gridseed 5-chip devices to 107 days if you mine litecoins and 75 days mining doge if you run the numbers at coinwarz for example.

The defective rate, DOA units shouldent really matter much, what could it possibly be if i's high like you say, 1% max? can't think that any manufacturer on any electronics devices can have worse rates than that and thats really the manufacturers problems and cost not the buyers, in worst case you loose something like 7-14 days of mining time on 1/100 of your devices witch increases you ROI time from 75 days to 75.14 days so still pretty much 2,5 months at current btc price and profitabillity on scryptcoins.

The cost to list a project on cryptostocks is 1 btc now i think so your right in usd terms the cost to list a project on cryptostocks has gone up compared to when they started the summer 2012 when it was at 5 btc if i remember correctly but in btc it has gone down.

Yea your right theres always a chance for that, maby you should ask fasbit to get avdanced verification on cryptostocks or i guess it's possible for you to check up the companys registration, https://www.sos.ok.gov/corp/corpInformation.aspx?id=1912426386 i think it's there registration, you can probably get the info you whant from that oklahama secretary of state or some other gov instance, not exactly sure how or where it's you search info on people/company for free in the usa but checking up things will reduce your risk for that type of things.

I think it's more relevant to compare investing in scryptmining with other mining projects, btc or scrypt than gambling sites and compared to bitcoin mining project there's no doubt that scryptmining project will return better, comparing it to other scryptmining projects there you have to look closer to each case to say whats better or worse and do it yourself, that depends on the individuals situation/skills, some probably don't have the abiliity to run mining farms efficiently, either because of lack of skills, space, heat issues, already maxed out fuses in your houses if you can't upgrade to higer ones, to high electricity costs in your country/state and so on.

To explain it simple each share in FAS will recieve the same amount of dividend no matter what price you paid for it.


The difference in dividend per share if you buy now or at the start of the project will not be much(just 5 satoushi) seen over time, in a years time for example  that may just be 1-2% difference but you may have a hard time finding shares to buy for the same price(0,000001 btc) as during the introduction, so your right in that the ROI % the early investors will get is better.

But if you look at fasbit's other listing on cryptostocks GRID https://cryptostocks.com/securities/94 , that one is still trading at 0.000002 and when that one starts paying dividend in maby 7-10 days time when they get there ASIC litecoin miners the kh/s per share will be approximately 2.5 times higher than FAS kh/s and the watts used per generated kh is only 1/15 so that stock will probably produce around 2,5*1,5 = 3.75 times as much dividend per share so if FAS is trading at 0,000003 btc then a reasonable price on GRID would be around 0.000011 and GRID is still trading at 0.000002 so i think you can still make a very good deal there buying those shares.

Exchanges don't set the prices, that's up to the people selling/buying on each exchange to do and there will always be price differences between exchanges, in the future there will probably be even more opportunitys to do arbitrage as more people get into bitcoins and other alt coins every day so there's no risk arbitrage will be something of the past, it will be there for the as long as there will be digital currency's....
Just look at the forex market, currency-pairs(USD/EUR, GBP/JPY...), the big banks is doing arbitrage there 24/7 and sometimes make millions of USD in fractions of a second...

If you compare the GRID and FAS listings on cryptostocks, then  GRID is better value if both trade at the same price, 820 GRID shares gets you the equivalent of 1kh/s mining, in FAS you needed to buy 2000 shares, both at 0.000001 per share, so if FAS trades at 0.000003-0.000004 then GRID should resonable trade at 2000/820 = 2.44 times that so 0.000007-0.000010 btc per share...we'll see in a day or two...

He could start proving he's for real by showing the promised pictures of his other GPU mining farms for example

The (dual)miners(only the scrypt mining will be profitable so the dual part is of less interest) he buys is from a company in china Gridseed or maby there chineese reseller i think. But later i think he will host them in his office(Tulsa, oklahama USA) if i understood it correct and not at the mining farm 20 miles away where he said the GPUminers was located.

As 60 million shares is sold out already and i think thats more than enouth for ordering 200 units and the controlboards for them(witch i think gridseed was including for free one per 10 5chip units) i guess he should have the miners within 7-10 days at max in USA.

That i can't answer, i don't know how he plan on paying gridseed, guess he could just make the trip back and forth with plane to china and pick all the miners up in person and bring them back on the returning airplane trip if he for example intend to buy a few hundred miners himself to, that would probably be the easiest and smartest option, maby a few hundred usd extra for overweight on the plane but gain an extra week of mining time( 2100 usd in a week @ 200 miners and 1.5 usd per miner and day), well depends on what rules the airplane have for max weights and so if that option is even possible(well a weekend trip to china with the family may be enough to bring back a few hundred kg overweight on the plane...lol)...

CMUC did put  up a vote on the 29 jan it looks like:
"Preorder new hardware (~$4.5gh/s) and replace the old one by selling it (~$8gh/s)"
Seems like they stopped updateing there twitter on the 29 jan to, after 13 messages the first 11 days there is 0 messages the last 20 days.

They made an announcement 17 feb 05:36
"We found out that the page, where we ordered in germany is down, what cant be good at all for the miners we paid.

A tradestop is not the way we can keep the shareprice stable now, but we will work out  solutions in the next days to keep our project still growing. Even when there are unexpected things happening, we are feeling responsible to our sharholders. We got scammed and  as there are so many straight-up con artists and scammers in the field of mining hardware supplier and manufacturer, we are not able to oparate full and thinking about taking legal actions.

We will pay out what we have left on our account, in the moment we are running out of bitcoins. We are stopping our activities until we will see if we get new hardware. We are sorry for inconviences caused."


No announcement on what they actually did after the vote thou, was the preorder done with funds built up from mining income and was the old asic supposed to be sold after they recieve he new hardware ?

What do they mean by "...we are not able to oparate full and thinking about taking legal actions" the miner woun't stop producing coins just because a peorder may be at risk

"We will pay out what we have left on our account, in the moment we are running out of bitcoins" is a strange thing to say to, wasen't dividend supposed to be based on mining profits, from the contract/listing
"Our second priority is to keep the dividends stable. For that up to 30 % of the mining income will be reinvested in new hardware."
so 70% or more to be payed out, how can they be running out of btc if they pay out dividend only from the daily incomes(and not some buid up reserve to even things out or something) ?

"We are stopping our activities until we will see if we get new hardware. We are sorry for inconviences caused."
Stop what activities, buying new asics/legel actions agains the people you say scammed you/mining activitys ?

"We found out that the page, where we ordered in germany is down, what cant be good at all for the miners we paid"
"We got scammed and..."
How do you know that you got scammed, how long has the site been down and what place is it you claim to have ordered from ?
And how did you pay for the miners, buy cash/bank wire/bank transfer/paypay/btc or some other way ?

the    03 Feb 05:39 they wrote
"Thank you for voting. We are going to analyse the  possibilities on the market and make then a choice. When there will be a plan to have down times - first we make a voting, so + 50% of shareholders deside where we go. "

05 Feb 04:37
"We will preorder  new miners and sell the current. Its planed, that before we turn off our miners, we will have installed the new one. This process should be done just in some hours..."
ok so it seems they at least don't sell there own hardware before getting the new ones so using build up funds for purchasing new ones i guess then.

10 Feb 04:39
"News!  We decided for two hardware manufacturer. We have been  in contact with them from the last week on and going to place a preorder for amazing fast and effective hardware. Delivery date will be soon and then at the end of the first quarter. More data to come this week, with more specs."
and it looks like they ordered from 2 diferent manufacturer, they shouldent be able to pick bad companys for both orders

14 Feb 04:44
"We will deinstall the hardware to make space for the new rigs and pay the preorders. We can keep the dividends stable for the next days."
Strange decision to uninstall the current miners they use before hey have the new ones in hand

Today it looks like there not paying out any dividend today or there exceptionally late, maby they haven't reinstalled there old mining hardware yet then.

If you look at there stock and count each sold stock they sold as 0,06 btc(some sold at higher price) witch was the introduction price they have got 90 btc in funds and payed back 9,30% of that in dividend(sofar) and from those numbers you get that they ordered for a maximum of 3,86 btc worth of bitcoins in hardware(from 2 different manufacturer) as max 30% of the mining incomes should be used for investing in new hardware and accouring to there announcements they should still have the old mining hardware left so it seems like the market is overreacting on there last statement if they possibly may have lost hardware bought for a max of around 3,86/2= 1,93 btc, so stock should at most loose 2% of it's value on that news....

A bit clearer statements according exactly what happened and how funds and mining situation looks at the moment is needed from you girls/guys behind CMUC.

These units, 5 chip models from Gridseed will be profitable for a very very long time.

The chip itself seems to be rated at drawing 0.44 w at standard speed so 2,2w for the 5 chip model

These 5 chip models is rated at 300kh/s(possible even 350 kh/s without any oc as the 1 chip model make 70 kh/s) and the 5 chip model only draws 7 watts(1 chip model 1.5 watts or less) or possible even down to 5 watts per 300-350 kh/s. So something like 14-23 w per Mh/s compared to GPU's that may in most powerefficient setups may be drawing 250-285 w per Mh/s so 11-20 times more powerefficient than GPU mining scryptcoins.

He lives in Tulsa, Oklahama, USA as far as i know or somewhere close to that city.

FIREMINE is listed at Cryptostocks: https://cryptostocks.com/securities/96

Owner   info@altswap.com Webpage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoREEsmcBcZIdEMweWRnN2R6b01JQ1FISWF5MXJBQUE&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Breaks Cryptostocks rules that email have to match the webpage so CS should never have allowed the issuer to sell shares in it.

The same person is behind altswap to, https://cryptostocks.com/securities/80
Owner   info@altswap.com Web page   http://altswap.com

But it seems they diden't have the time or wasen't willing to make the effort to set up a new webpage for FIREMINE.


These statements don't match on FIREMINEs contract/listing:
=============================================
"Each time a round of shares have completed selling, the shareholder’s BTC will be combined and used to start powerful mining equipment. "
A round seems to be 1000 shares at 0.003 and shareholders will NOT get anything back unless shares equivalent to 3 btc is sold.

"Every day, dividends will be paid out to all shareholders that are currently holding a stake in the company."
Wrong, no dividend will then be paid if first round haven't been sold out according to the first statement they make so the above statement is a lie.

"This means that, the faster a round sells out, the more money each shareholder makes for being a part of the corporation."
Also incorrect, a more correct wording would be if at least one round is sold out shareholders will receive some money back.

"Shareholder money will be directly put towards new mining power on a daily basis. We have miners ready to set up, more being shipped, and others that can be quickly ordered and delivered."
Also a lie every day a whole batch is not sold out the investors money will not be put towards new mining power according to the previous statements.

If the company already have miners ready where is all the pictures on them when there set up and mining, thats the least one can expect from a company claiming to have the hardware already. No information what so ever on what hardware they claim to have and what hardware they claim to have being delivered to them and that they intend to quickly order in the future.

The company have also the IPOflag active so no buy or sell order is possible(except buy on there issuing price) so no liquidity for the people that buy into this(you will not be able to sell your investment if you already made the mistake and invested in this).
No information when(time periods/number of shares...) the IPO will be active or if it ever will be deactivated.

To sum it up a very high likely-hood this is a SCAM, so stay away and don't invest in it.
================================================================

As the same person also is behind altswap to, https://cryptostocks.com/securities/80
Owner   info@altswap.com Web page   http://altswap.com

and they started out that listing without a IPO flag but have then later set that option(and as far as i can see they forgot to announce that they set the IPO flag) they effectively hold previous investors money hostage as no liquidity is available now. Most likely altswap is a SCAM to then and the 7 319 stocks bought there for 0.005 for a total of 36.595 btc is most likely forever lost for the unlucky people who invested there and they will most likely never get there full investment in that stock back.

So recommendation would be to stay away from altswap to, the fact that they lock in shares that have previously been traded openly and without announcing it and not even offering to buy back outstanding shares is enough reason to avoid the share all together, even if you don't find there other behavior alarming.

Incorrect
Date              Difficulty         Change    Hash Rate                 
Nov 29 2013    707,408,283    16.07%    5,063,826 GH/s (up from 4,362,847 GH/s last)

I do agree with you that using 14% in a models is way to low, 25-30% is probably a good assumption for the shorter time period and maby 20% is a good number to use then after KnC has send out there new batch and after CoinTerra has delivered most of there TerraMiner IV miners.

Lowest possible dividend to pay out on cryptostocks is 0,00000001 btc per share, 1/100 of the 1st batches IPO price.

So for example if the 90% of the profit(that was mentined before the IPO that he would start out at) is payed out then a return of 1.11% of invested btc or more per day then daily dividend is possible. At lower returns dividend have to be less than daily.

If second and later batches gets sold out at higher prices than 0.000001 btc, dividend will be possible to pay daily as the avg hashrate per share will increase then(1st batches was at 1kh/s hashrate per 2000 shares). If batch 2 sells at 0,000003 btc per share for example then the avg hashrate per share after the second batch of 10 000 000 shares is sold will get up to the double, 1kh/s per 1000 shares.

If you had taken the time to read there Contract/description of there company/listing on Cryptostocks you would know the answer to that question.

Why do you complain about AUTOTRADE that has behaved flawlessly so far on Cryptostocks, witch one can't say about many other listings there.
Are you a competitors sock-puppet account whose listing(s) on Cryptostocks don't manage to raise the same amount of funds ?

There is a number of pretty obvious scam's/ponzis listed on Cryptostocks, maby you Mrrr can spend your time trying to spot them instead of complaining on AUTOTRADE and we can see how many you manage to detect.

I may have missed something but where did anyone say that any coins were gone ?

No profit dosen't mean some huge loss it means no positive result for the period in question, aka no dividend for that period.

The only thing i see reading back a bit in what they posted, is that they wanted more avaliable coins to meat the demand when reopening, i guess for example if they expect to get a large number of orders after some add campain or simular and if they raised 500 000 USD from that Panama fund that should mean they could either have 1000-500 BTC more to sell (at 500-1000 usd per coin) or could use some of those funds to develope the company/site or to arrange bankaccounts, licensing and so on in the country(or maby even few states if that might be profitable for btcquick to handpick a few with lots of customrs/low licensing fees) of there choises to make the company even more successful in the future.
Cryptsy metioned that there was needed licensing in 43 states(Florida and California beeing 2 of the 43 needing licensing) so there may be 5 states that exchanges btc/fiat transmittors are allowed to opperate in, sell coins to people in those states without a license if Cryptsy is correct on that point.

Shouldent that be 864 times 100(block reward 100 ?) c-notes, 86 400 per day ?

I think that what Ascension is trying to say is more like that it might take a month or two to set up working conditions for selling bitcoins to all international costomers except those from the USA.
There is other people who themself and there rather large company is based in USA that sells BTC for fiat throu CC for example, should probably work just as fine with wire/SEPA tranfers and simular to, as long as the servers is outside of USA and you have everything thought throu and don't sell BTC to US citicen it should be alright and FinCEN will have nothing at all to complain about.

It seems like neither Cryptostocks or the issuer behind this have the time to read throu the contracts before they publish it these days, 19 stocks listed on CS so far this year in only 43 days, 1 new listing every 2 days on avg, the previous 1,5 years june 2012-dec31 2013 they only had got 72 listings.

https://cryptostocks.com/securities/91 Owner    support@btcless.com    Webpage       http://www.btcless.com

The issuer of this stock is at least behind 2 other of the listings the last couple of days but it could of cours be more listings the last couple of months that this issuer is behind.

https://cryptostocks.com/securities/84 Owner    support@btcless.com     Webpage      www.fasbit.com
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/87 Owner    info@fasbit.com            Webpage      www.fasbit.com

From the contract(listing 91) on Cryptostock

"Shares structure
Every shareholder will be treated as an equal partner, the percentage of owned shares is the percentage that the shareholder will receive from biweekly dividends. This means that if you own 10% of the sold stock you will receive 10% of the dividends. At IPO (Initial Public Offer) there will be 10.000 shares offered at 0.05 BTC in 2 rounds. During the the first round (2.000 shares) of IPO there will be no fund activity and we will start trading as soon as the second round of 8.000 shares will be offered.  After the IPO offers there will be additional 90.000 shares offered at variable price the will represent the funds  value.The founder of CFBTC will receive 1 share for every 9 sold shares. The fund reserves the right to sell and buy the CFBTC shares.

    * IPO round 1: 2.000 shares at 0.005 BTC  - no fund activity
    * IPO round 2: 8.000 shares at 0.005 BTC - funds activity result in biweekly dividends
    * Growth round: 90.000 shares at variable price that represends the funds value"

So whats the correct price you had in mind 0,005 ? intended funding/capital of the fund of 500 BTC or at a price of 0,05 per share and a intended funding/capital 5000 BTC.

"During the the first round (2.000 shares) of IPO there will be no fund activity and we will start trading as soon as the second round of 8.000 shares will be offered"

No activity during the time the first 2000 shares is sold
What will happen between the period of the first 2000 and all of the 10 000 stocks is sold ?
you say that trading will only start when 10 000 shares is sold ?! why do you need at least 500 btc/50 btc and 11 111 open shares before you can start to trade ?
BTC32 thats listed on the same exchange as you, cryptostocks started trading directly and got profit the first week of trading with less than 1.5 btc at there dissposal for example....

"The founder of CFBTC will receive 1 share for every 9 sold shares. The fund reserves the right to sell and buy the CFBTC shares"

Why would you be interested in selling off the up to 11 111 shares you get for free if you believe in the fund and think it will do well ? or did you mean that you reserve the right to trade in your own fund, with insider knowledge around the time for each dividends for example, but always keep at least the up to 11 111 shares you get for free or something like that ?
Both options seems very unethical.


From there site http://www.btcless.com/

Invest
"The fund will keep all the assets in cryptographic currencies. At this point there is no intention to sell any cryptographic asset in to fiat currencies like USD, EUR, GBP or JPY."

We will use multiple platforms to spread our fund’s activity
"Currency exchange trading on platforms like MtGox...."
Do you actually plan on trading on MtGox when you can't get either fiat(USD, EUR...) or BTC out from there ?
And how on earth did you intend to trade on Mtgox if you plan to keep all assets in cryptographic currencies ?
As far as i know Mtgox don't have any crypto/crypto trading pairs and will most likely never have any other crypto than BTC before USgov pays back Mtgox seized funds.

"Virtual mining platforms like CEX"
Have you traded for a long time before on cex.io and do you consistently profit there even thou you start out at a big minus there as the Hashing powers is traded at a large premium there, when i checked them a few months ago there price was 10 times higher than if you had bought KnCminers at 400 GH each, those miners would also have been up working for a long time already at that time)

"Auction platforms similar to eBay"
What do the fund intend to do there, sell Cassius coins or are you allowed to selling digital things like non physical bitoins now on eBay ?

Lets hope Graet &/or Ukyo were the one with the buy order down at 102 usd per BTC on BTC-E yesterday so they got a shitload of very cheep coins so they both can start to resolve this Ukyo loan/Graet loan/Weexchange thing soon.

Lets hope Graet &/or Ukyo were the one with the buy order down at 102 usd per BTC on BTC-E yesterday so they got a shitload of very cheep coins so they both can start to resolve this Ukyo loan/Graet loan/Weexchange thing soon.

  What do you mean by i have no evidence, all i said is based on what you yourself said in you contract/listings, your announcements and your "Forum" so if you told the truth then every number i mentioned is correct...

Slightly over 1 satoushi per share every 2 days seems to be a resonable return, IPO price may not have been the most thought throu  If you intended to pay dividend every day, as a large part of it may dissapear in network fees, exchange fees and cryptostocks fees unless the mining operation is 10-100 times bigger than the current IPO has sold sofar or you may keep a small buffer at Cryptostocks for a couple of dividends at a time to reduce fees on transfering around small amounts each day.