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441  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012 on: July 23, 2018, 08:16:50 PM

Were you able to get help for your issue? We saw that a user had replied to the question on Reddit which is why we wanted to double check. We would be be happy to help if you still need it.

Issue was solved thank you
442  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012 on: July 22, 2018, 02:49:49 AM
Yes, undoubtedly. I supply with some information below:

Hi there,
I have an old wallet with the *.bin extension (sample of 2015). Prompt please, how it possible to convert to the latest *.wallet format?
Create wallet from keys function does not work with an old format in a new wallet.

Hello there!

Well that is an interesting question. To start with could you supply me with some information in order to help?

Which wallet version are you using/
^^^^^^^
I used bytecoin wallet v1.0.2.358. Either this or the subsequent versions converted a wallet from *.bin format to *.wallet format. Just at that time I forgot the password for this wallet (аnd I strained not enough to recall). And at last it was succeeded to recall now, but the old version of the wallet without connection to a blockchain does not properly work. I cannot make anything with coins)))). I can see a balance only.
Latest bytecoin wallet GUI 3.1.1. but it have no Console. So it can't help to do enything by command line.
Create wallet from keys function cannot provide creation from keys of old format. The window with keys is shown, but OK button is not aviable.

Which OS are you operating on?
^^^^^^^
Windows10

Have you tried to select open wallet with the new software and select the old version to see if it will upload automatically?
^^^^^^^
Yes, I tried to select open wallet with the new software, but new software is not support old *.bin format of bytecoin wallet. In the menu of a choice of already existing wallet my old file is not visible absolutely. Only  *.wallet file in the same directory is visible.


If you can answer those for us we can do our best to assist you.


In Bytecoin Desktop 3.1.1 when you select "Create wallet from keys" there is a button "Load from file", and it supports opening any file type. Could you try that?

Yes, as I wrote: "Create wallet from keys" function cannot provide creation from keys of old format. Аfter press a button "Load from file" ...The window with keys is shown, but OK button is not aviable.
So I can't press button of the last confirmation and the convertation process is not finished. If it interested - then I choose my old file wallet.bin.keys the window with keys shows some groups of digits only. No one character. I do not know, is it perhaps necessary to add something. The password probably.
I can send to you the test wallet .bin and *.bin.keys 2015's sample to try.
And I can try to install and start the wallet on Ubuntu if it can help too.

We saw your post in Reddit but we will reply here as well. What are the length of his keys you are trying to load there? Is it letters and symbols?

Good day!
I did not create the file with keys by my side. I have in the old directory three files concerning a wallet: wallet.bin, wallet.bin.address, wallet.bin.keys. So I try to use that keys file that "I was in a set" in case of start of a relevant wallet. To judge that it contains only digits I can only based on the key which is taken away in a window of loading from the file. The wallet loads it, but last OK does not allow to click. What do I do incorrectly?

I will repeat. The password works. In case of start of simplewallet.exe the password gives the chance to open a wallet and to check balance for example. But bytecoind.exe is not launched. So my old wallet is not on friendly terms with a relevant blockchain.

I have showed your question to the devs and according to them you shouldn't be having any issues in your situation. Would it be possible to take some screenshots of what you are experiencing so I can show them directly? You may upload them to Imgur or a site of your choosing and send them as a private message to our Reddit. Having a visual basis for this would do a lot to help you in this situation.

Yes, I answer to my Reddit with screenshot of convertation's problem in the latest wallet

Сan you check obtaining the image and my response about 578 characters?

We have replied to your post on Reddit.

All done. Nothing more is necessary. I found the bytecoin wallet v1.0.8.608 in archives and converted the old file in a new format. It is a pity that to your devs it is so difficult to give operational advice in similar questions.


Hello, I have the same issue. I have an old wallet with the .bin extension and a small amount of bytecoin that I need to convert to the modern wallet format.

It sounds like I need the bytecoin wallet v1.0.8.608 can anyone tell me where I can find this.
443  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 16, 2018, 05:33:45 PM

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Nor does it make religion false. If you reject something true and sacrifice your health in the process then you are simply foolish.
444  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Is POW systematically doomed to get a huge monster in its midst? on: June 16, 2018, 05:05:58 PM
...
In summary, the Schelling point threshold for starting the SegWit theft is very high and only a sufficiently powerful mining cartel will launch it.
...
the wealthy hate the masses, because the masses always want to steal via their non-meritorious concept of fairness. The masses take on too much debt, expect everything for free from the society/government, and then want to fleece the wealthy when their economic mismanagement ends up in economic collapse.
...
The entire thesis of Bitcoin as a world reserve asset is that the nation-states are powerless to interfere with it because of jurisdictional arbitrage. So the wealthy have absolutely no fear of the governments nor the useful leftist idiots.
...
Thus it is a necessary prerequisite that Bitcoin publicly demonstrate and boldly slap-down any fear of retribution from Marxists (i.e. the masses) before it will be fully respected as a form of Ideal Money.

The allegation of theft is a lack of technological understanding... if the miners of the Satoshi protocol accept these ANYONECANSPEND donations, they are not stealing.

I think it would be useful to summarize and highlight our areas of disagreement.

1) Schelling point threshold for a SegWit rollback.

I take the position that this will not be reached if Core slowly solidifies towards immutability over time which remains a probable outcome. You have stated that you view reaching such a Schelling point as a risk not a guaranteed outcome so we may agree here.

2) Powerlessness of nation-states due to jurisdictional arbitrage.

I think your analysis overestimates the power of bitcoin and underestimates the resiliency of human error. The fiat system may be slapped down as you predict but that process will likely give rise to something much worse. Jurisdictional arbitrage offers only partial and incomplete protection.

I don't believe Bitcoin is going to be boldly slapping down anyone. Instead it will succeed by failing to die. Any person who is wealthy and has no fear of governments is taking an unwise position.

I highlighted how I believe this will play out here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3341237.msg35427611#msg35427611

3) The definition of theft.

Failure to secure ones money or failure to anticipate a theft vector does not mean the taking is not a theft. If I leave a pile of money unguarded on my front porch it may indeed be stolen and I may have no recourse but my failure to secure it does not mean the taking would not be theft.

Theft is and will be the primary concern of the wealthy which is why they would never support a transition to a system grounded in theft when superior solutions/transitions are possible. To borrow your language the Schelling point for such a transition would never be reached as there are other lower energy Schelling points that would be hit first and transition the system.
445  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Is POW systematically doomed to get a huge monster in its midst? on: June 16, 2018, 09:33:46 AM

I would rephase #1 as demonstrating that the wealthy have only one choice, which is to defend immutability. Those former wealthy who defect will end up not wealthy anymore. Roger Ver (and his 300,000 BTC) is leading the flock astray by making them think the wealthy want a transaction scalability system. Either he is intentionally deceiving (which I highly doubt and I see he’s not the smartest tool in the shed although not retarded), or he is going to be a sacrificial lamb (in the long-term).

Yes on #2, I maybe forgot to state explicitly that all wealthy can join in the shorting, not just the miners. They can possibly also short at that juncture by selling their Core fork tokens and buy the Satoshi fork tokens, if some miners fork off and continue the Core fork and if there’s some means of exchanging. Also in theory the miners could offer to buy the Core fork tokens from wealthy people (i.e. those that can sell over a certain threshold) at a premium over market price so as to share some of the SegWit booty profits and then dump that SegWit on the market to drive the price down. They can buy only UTXO that was before the attack so as to not put premium into the pockets of those who want to repurchase Core fork. Those who think the attack is not realistic I think ignore the economic momentum created by the booty.

And also:

3) The SegWit and LN scalability to create the hype for a nosebleed ATH.
4) To create the illusion that Bitcoin failed, so the nation-states will continue to be very slow at getting organized to stop it. Another form of deception. The Art of War. Recently a Chinese emissary stood up at a recent meeting about cryptocurrency regulations in the USA and declared that USA and Canada (and by implication West in general) “are confused.” Very interesting that China already realized that Bitcoin is a trojan horse but the West is so fooled. But China can’t defeat Bitcoin. Their people will route around the government edicts.
5) To cause many greater fools to dump their crypto holdings at fire sale prices at the bottom of the next crypto winter. This is what the elite always do pump the economy with debt to eventually crash the economy so the middle-class has to sell and they can buy cheap. SegWit is a form of debt because they are all fractional reserves. Everyone who accepts a Core SegWit transaction has already lost the Satoshi BTC.
6) To increase their marketshare of the mining because marginal miners can be bankrupted by lower prices but the lowest cost miners with the highest economies-of-scale remain operational.
7) The ECB NIRP sovereign debt crisis (c.f. also and also) in Europe should be starting right about the time of the next crypto winter so this will prevent Europeans from buying Bitcoin to avoid being raped by the banksters.

I guess perhaps instead of going bankrupt maybe what exchanges would do is instead issue only Core fork BTC for those who want to withdraw existing BTC held before the fork. That presumes the Core fork would continue to have sufficient mining such that it is not attacked with continuous orphaning by the major miners.

They also think they can get away with it and pump it back to ATH even after such a disaster happening and regaining confidence on it being a global store of value. This is where we differ, as some pointed out, I think the damage would be too much.

Too much for what? Are you seriously claiming you would not buy an immutable Satoshi BTC at firesale prices at the crypto winter bottom? I will be buying with both hands, all three of my feet, and I’ll even swing my two dicks into that action (promise no photos this time).

Bitcoin will have a much higher stature as a dependable reserve asset once immutability has been secured. No more fear about Core increasing the 21 million tokens limit, otherwise injecting ways for them to parasite on the wealthy, or being compelled by the masses to redistribute the wealth.

IOW, a Bitcoin devoid of politics. John Nash’s Ideal Money must not be manipulable by politics.

By 2019 there will be more segwit activity than legacy. It could end up being an inside job that ends up not being profitable. It may be more profitable to simply keep milking transaction fees through LN becoming mainstream (without segwit LN doesn't reach it's full potential),

I assume you mean off-chain fees?

There you go Core trying to find some way to take revenue away from the miners. I read something recently about some leverage they expect to have on LN hubs. And you think the miners will not fight back?

Note AFAIK, LN can be reformulated without the P2SH feature of SegWit.

If you mean on-chain fees, those will continue to rise regardless of SegWit. Why would the miners not take profits of the booty, the shorting, and the increased marketshare (meaning more BTC mined for them and more txn fees for them)? It is a zero-sum game regardless of the dip in price, because the price eventually goes up again.

and assuming TPTB controls mining, their funds would be safe while still having the power of stealing coins at will if needed. In any case, we will find soon, since the longer it takes for them to execute that theoretical attack the bigger the disaster would be and therefore it may not even be worth it for them anymore, so these expecting it to happen may sell and lose their position as nothing happens and price keeps going higher (again, this is also assuming it happens around the time you are proposing, that's somewhere next year, and it cannot take longer than that).

I hope you realize I have stated numerous times that I am not selling until at least $30k. I expect a new ATH early next year perhaps as high as $50k (maybe $70k on a spike). I will be taking profits regardless of SegWit risk. So even if SegWit attack does not occur, I will not feel like I lost. Even if BTC somehow keeps going to $1 million without any intervening crypto winter, I will not feel bad about taking profits. It’s been a nice run and I see too many systemic scale risks (i.e. on the level of a Mt.Gox event):

* Tether
* ICO crackdown
* SegWit booty
* ICO bubble burst

I hope all of the above happen in 2019 or 2020. Then I can buy back in below $10k.

I hope the SegWit attack doesn’t start now. I am highly exposed to it. What a major fuckup if I predicted it but happened sooner than I expected. That is why I’m diversifying out of BTC now some into altcoins on this selloff this week (cost averaging until we hit the low below $6k I expect). But it is too late to sell BTC for fiat. Should have done that at $15+k (which I did take some profits at that time).

I have seen many in the Wall Observer thread state they will take profits at $50k.

I’m expecting the euphoria about LN and SegWit reaching some critical mass will be pumped up in the mass media to drive the price to a new ATH nosebleed.


A very interesting post. Here are my thoughts on your analysis. To start let me summarize your argument as I understand it.

You feel that the role of Bitcoin in the future is to be an immutable reserve asset. Thus you reject the approach of Bitcoin Cash and their attempts to reduce transnational costs by rapid block size increases as a failure path. You also feel that the approach of Core is misguided in that their attempts to develop and scale bitcoin especially via SegWit is also a failure path. You argue that the correct path is to embrace immutability of bitcoin. As this is not a dominant theme in any current implementation of Bitcoin you believe there is a high risk of it emerging in the form of a future fork. You also highlight the ever increasing amount of BTC in Segregated Witness addressed as a constantly growing economic incentive for a future contentious rollback of SegWit as these funds could be captured via a fork that revoked SegWit.

I agree with much of your argument. I think the BCH approach of rapid and massive increases in transaction volume is flawed. I also agree that their is a genuine and growing risk of a future rejection of Core and SegWit in favor of Bitcoin originalism especially as the economic incentive grows and especially if Lightening Network does not deliver as anticipated. The immutability portion of your argument is similar to that that put forward by traincarswreck here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.0 I found his back and forth with AgentofCoin especially interesting.

I agree that there is a real risk here. There is no powerful originalist movement currently and I could easily see one developing in the future especially if Core is felt to be compromising the immutability of the protocol via unnecessary changes and especially as the economic incentive for a rollback grows. However, there are also mitigating factors.

The SegWit booty is an asymmetrical advantage for the Satoshi fork. It can be shared with all those wealthy who sell Core as I explained. Core has no equivalent economic weapon. Core can’t steal Satoshi tokens and bribe wealthy to sell Satoshi tokens so as to dump them on the market.

Let's examine the scenario you describe. Lets hypothesize that the miners wait until some critical mass of BTC are in SegWit addresses and then create a suprise fork where SegWit is rolled back with 60% of the hashpower it leaving 40% for Core. In the originalist fork the miners take all the thousands of BTC that are residing in SegWit addresses and make the argument that they are restoring security and immutability to Bitcoin. We could play with the numbers a bit but these are as good as any the survival of BCH indicates that any combination of numbers would not likely lead to the immediate cessation of either the Core or the new originalist chain.  

There are at least two powerful economic factors that could counter this scenario. The success of the originalist chain would be dependent on the acceptances of this chain as a return to originalism. It requires individuals or at least wealthy individuals to see it as the premiere immutable form of BTC. This outcome is not at all certain in such a fork and can be challenged by two powerful tools that would likely come into play.

1) The theft/taking of the SegWit transaction in a surprise minor fork could be challenged on its own terms by a later fork that was also originalist but more objectively fair. Faced with the surprise theft of all of the SegWit BTC by the miners in their fork it is highly probably that a follow up second originalist fork would occur but in a more transparent and fair manner with advance notice to individuals to move their funds to non SegWit addresses and only those who did not do so prior to the fork losing their originalist fork BTC. Ultimately what would drive value is not the miners but the wealthy. The wealthy may indeed favor an originalist fork if they feel immutability is not being sufficiently protected by Core but their primary reason for it would be a fear of oppression and theft. Given the choice between two equally immutable bitcoin forks where one has a giant theft built into its inception they will avoid the one that is widely perceived as grounded in theft and fraud. Value and hashpower would ultimately follow their choice.

2) Bitcoin Core could slowly become immutable. The incentive for a rollback is predicated on the wealthy losing confidence in the immutability of BTC Core due to excessive "updates". If this scenario does not come to pass. If BTC Core ossifies over time it could become immutable in which case the concept of massive wealth from a miner hardfork would be just an illusion.

I agree, however, that the risk is real and should be taken seriously. If it comes to fruition, however, I think it would go down much like the BCH fork did. A public schism followed by an announced split. Anything more underhanded would simply set the fork up for failure as it could be easily supplanted by a more transparent fork that accomplished similar aims. The primary concern of the wealthy is protection of property rights and protection from theft. They are not going to want their wealth enshrined in a system that has massive theft built into its foundation not if similar security could be obtained without that baggage.
446  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 15, 2018, 07:10:44 PM
Religious people live four YEARS longer than those who don’t believe in God, study reveals
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/science/religious-people-live-four-years-12704829.amp
Quote from: SHIVALI BEST
People with religious affiliations live nearly four years longer than those with no religious ties, according to a new study.

Researchers from the Ohio State Universitylooked at the link between religion and length of life, by analysing over 1,000 obituaries.

Laura Wallace, who led the study, said: “Religious affiliation had nearly as strong an effect on longevity as gender does, which is a matter of years of life.”

The researchers found that part of the reason that religious people lived long was that they also volunteered and belonged to social organisations - both of which have been linked to living longer.

Ms Wallace said: “We found that volunteerism and involvement in social organisations only accounted for a little less than one year of the longevity boost that religious affiliation provided.

“There’s still a lot of the benefit of religious affiliation that this can't explain.”

The researchers suggested that the added benefit may be related to the rules and norms of many religions - such as the restriction of alcohol and drug use.

Professor Baldwin Way, co-author of the study, added: “Many religions promote stress-reducing practices that may improve health, such as gratitude, prayer or meditation.”

The researchers hope their findings will help with future studies exploring the effect of religion on health.

447  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 14, 2018, 01:53:37 AM

You obviously never lived in the Latin America.  People there invite their priests to bless their new cars, right there at the car dealerships.
They are extremely religious.  Everything is about God down there.  Venezuela might be an exception.

BTW, I was raised Catholic and can tell you that Jesus Christ is their main character.


Actually I have. I lived in Costa Rica for several months some years ago. I agree that it was a pretty religious place. However, I did not feel it was dramaticly more religious then the US. Latin America is a big place and far from uniform. Here is a chart on the religious commitment of various countries in Latin America. The Catholic commitment numbers are the ones to focus on as these countries are mostly Catholic. Costa Rica is pretty high which matches my experience.

I did not, however, feel that Costa Rica was dramatically more religious then the US and this observation too manifest itself in the US data where we see that the USA is a huge outlier compared other rich countries.


http://www.pewforum.org/2014/11/13/religion-in-latin-america/


http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/in-the-u-s-religious-commitment-is-high-and-the-gender-gap-is-wide/



448  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 14, 2018, 01:19:52 AM

They all follow the bible, what are you saying lmao, you don't have an argument here, it's clear that a country with a lot of christians doesn't mean a good country, plenty of examples.

What people say is much less important then what people do. It is the reality that matters not the self identification.

Venezuela for example is 70-80% Catholic but only 10% of those people are highly committed to their faith as I highlighted immediately above.

Some 70% of the population of Sweden is a member of the Church of Sweden but only 15 percent of members of the Church of Sweden say they believe in Jesus which is pretty much the core belief of Christianity.
https://www.thelocal.se/20110615/34370


Are you saying Catholics don't believe in Jesus Christ? 

Many don't. The vast majority of people in the Church of Sweden clearly don't so why would you expect Catholicism to be different.  If you want to judge the strength of a religion in a country the best metric is probably regular weekly Church attendance. Once there is a cost even if it is only time reality manifest. Talk is cheap.
449  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 12, 2018, 07:13:06 PM
Venezuela (89%), Honduras (87%) and El Salvador (80%) are very Christian countries.  Where is CoinCube to point out how Christian values help societies and that without Christianity people would be killing each other in the streets?   Oh, wait, that is what they are doing in those three countries.

Venezuela is only nominally Catholic. It is true that a supermajority the population says they are Catholic but only 10% of those Catholic's are highly observant.

The religion of Socialism appears to have replaced Christianity for large numbers of Venezuelans with predictable consequences.

https://warisboring.com/as-venezuela-falls-apart-its-people-build-a-new-faith/
Quote from: Allison Braden
In 2011, according to a poll taken by Venezuela’s Social Investigation Group XXI, 71 percent of Venezuelans identified as Catholic.



I admit that the situation in Honduras and El Salvador appears be different as these countries are religious societies that are nevertheless plagued by severe and uncontrolled gang violence especially MS-13.

It is notable that many of these gangs trace their roots to US policy. MS-13 was formed by Central American refugees fleeing chaos in their home countries. Chaos that the US played no small part in. After its formation in the gang culture of Los Angeles we then deported MS13 back to Central America where it thrives amid the weakened government there.

U.S. Interventions in El Salvador
http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
Quote

1944
The dictator Maximiliano Hernández Martínez of El Salvador is ousted by a revolution; the interim government is overthrown five months later by the dictator's former chief of police. The U.S.'s immediate recognition of the new dictator does much to tarnish Roosevelt's Good Neighbor policy in the eyes of Latin Americans.

1960
A new junta in El Salvador promises free elections; Eisenhower, fearing leftist tendencies, withholds recognition. A more attractive right-wing counter-coup comes along in three months.

"Governments of the civil-military type of El Salvador are the most effective in containing communist penetration in Latin America." --John F. Kennedy, after the coup

1968
Gen. José Alberto Medrano, who is on the payroll of the CIA, organizes the ORDEN paramilitary force, considered the precursor of El Salvador's death squads.

1972
U.S. stands by as military suspends an election in El Salvador in which centrist José Napoleón Duarte was favored to win. (Compare with the emphasis placed on the 1982 elections.)

1980
A right-wing junta takes over in El Salvador. U.S. begins massively supporting El Salvador, assisting the military in its fight against FMLN guerrillas. Death squads proliferate; Archbishop Romero is assassinated by right-wing terrorists; 35,000 civilians are killed in 1978-81. The rape and murder of four U.S. churchwomen results in the suspension of U.S. military aid for one month.

The U.S. demands that the junta undertake land reform. Within 3 years, however, the reform program is halted by the oligarchy.

"The Soviet Union underlies all the unrest that is going on." --Ronald Reagan.

1984
U.S. spends $10 million to orchestrate elections in El Salvador-- something of a farce, since left-wing parties are under heavy repression, and the military has already declared that it will not answer to the elected president.


MS-13
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13
Quote
Mara Salvatrucha (MS), also known as MS-13 originated in Los Angeles, set up in the 1980s by Salvadoran immigrants in the city's Pico-Unionneighborhood who immigrated to the United States after the Central American civil wars of the 1980s.[18]
Originally the gang's main purpose was to protect Salvadoran immigrants from other, more established gangs of Los Angeles, who were predominantly composed of Mexicans and African-Americans.[19]

Many Mara Salvatrucha gang members from the Los Angeles area have been deported after being arrested.[20] For example, Jose Abrego, a high-ranking member, was deported four times.[21] As a result of these deportations, members of MS-13 have recruited more members in their home countries.[22] The Los Angeles Times contends that deportation policies have contributed to the size and influence of the gang both in the United States and in Central America.[20] According to the 2009 National Gang Threat Assessment, "The gang is estimated to have 30,000 to 50,000 members and associate members worldwide, 8,000 to 10,000 of whom reside in the United States.[1]
450  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 06, 2018, 01:58:16 AM

Eye for an Eye: One of the Greatest Ideas in History
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrakW1DjApo
451  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: June 05, 2018, 03:09:11 AM
Just one to mention one thing, height doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, like you mentioned in the OP. Unless they are taller because they had better nutrition growing up, which does affect intelligence.

Height and IQ are positively correlated in children. I do not know how much of this effect is due to nutrition. However, the studies I cited were done in the US in the 1920s which so poor nutrition would presumably have been less of an issue. Here is a discussion from earlier in the thread where I highlighted my source for this.

Those gifted with superior intellect are not only smarter, they are also taller, healthier, and more athletic than average.

Let's start with your first claim

You are claiming that people with high IQ are also taller, healthier, and more athletic

Where the hell did you get that idea?

The original studies are old and to my knowledge not available online but a summary can be found here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Terman

Quote from: Wikipedia
Terman found his answers in his longitudinal study on gifted children: Genetic Studies of Genius.[12] Initiated in 1921, the Genetic Studies of Genius was from the outset a long-term study of gifted children. Published in five volumes, Terman followed children with extremely high IQ in childhood throughout their lives. The fifth volume examined the children in a 35 year follow-up, and looked at the gifted group during mid-life.[13]

Genetic Studies of Genius revealed that gifted and genius children were in at least as good as average health and had normal personalities. Few of them demonstrated the previously-held negative stereotypes of gifted children. He found that gifted children did not fit the existing stereotypes often associated with them: they were not weak and sickly social misfits, but in fact were generally taller, in better health, better developed physically, and better adapted socially than other children. The children included in his studies were colloquially referred to as "Termites".[14] The gifted children thrived both socially and academically. In relationships, they were a less likely to divorce.[6]
Additionally, those in the gifted group were generally successful in their careers: Many received awards recognizing their achievements. Though many of the children (affectionately known as “Termites” [6]) reached exceptional heights in adulthood, not all did. Terman explored the causes of obvious talent not being realized, exploring personal obstacles, education, and lack of opportunity as causes.[9]
452  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 31, 2018, 08:51:11 PM

UN has been consistently wrong about this.

It is not my estimate. It is math.

Global population growth rate oscillates between 1-2%.

Look up "doubling time" or "rule 72".

The rough formula for doubling time is:
70 divided by the growth rate.

If the global population growth rate stays at 1% the population will double in 70 years no matter what anybody thinks.

If the rate goes back up to 2%, the population will double in 35 years.

There is nothing to argue.  The only thing you can do is to try to estimate the growth rate.

Moving less educated people from less educated countries (Africa, Middle-East, Latin America where the average IQ is around 85 or lower) to more affluent countries will increase the global growth rate not decrease it.  

I think the global growth rate will stay above 1% for some time.  Unless some major diseases kick in and increase the death rates.

In one doubling time, there will be 1 person per 10,000 square meters.  In five doubling times, there will be 1 person per 625 square meters (~6700 sq ft) LOL.

You think humanity will survive five doubling times here on Earth?

PS. It looks like we are going to reach 8 billion in 2022-2023.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

I think human life on earth could survive three doubling times. Not sure about five.

I have been to India. The population density there is 382 per square kilometer. It is pretty crowded there already though they get by. Total population density of the world right now is about 55 per square kilometer (excluding Antarctica because that not really habitable with current technology). Three population doublings would take the population to about 60 billion and make the global population density about 440 per square kilometer 15% higher then that of India today.

That would be pretty crowded but I suspect technology, technological advances and human ingenuity could handle that much provided we cooperate and don't do anything too stupid. Even using your not so accurate projection of a population growth of 1% a year that is 210 year of technological progress to handle the growth.

Also your guess is likely to be wildly inaccurate. Population growth is likely to be far less than 1%. I am not an expert on the data but my understanding is that the UN estimates tend to error on the side of overestimating growth rates. Also worldwide fertility is plummeting and looks set to grow at far less than 1%.



Fertility of 2.1 is effectively 0% population growth due to accidental deaths. I fully expect the global fertility will continue to drop maybe even below 2.1. The primary driver of human reproduction the link between human reproductive activity and human procreation has been severed by contraceptive technology. The necessity of modern education increasingly consumes our prime reproductive years and this demand will only grow in the future. Children are no longer an economic boon but a great cost for parents so increasingly only those very interested in them will have them. Automated robots and learning algorithms will increasingly consume low level jobs so even those wanting large families may be unable to find the work to support them. See:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4359289.0

I am doubtful that we will see even a single population doubling from our current level.  
453  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: May 31, 2018, 07:26:48 PM

I did not mean to say that you are a flat Earther.  You are "an infinite Entity that influences everything on Earth" believer.  Just as irrational as
the flat Earther.  Sorry about the confusion.

All of your hyperbole implying the people you are debating with belong in insane asylums, your misuse of the world child abuse, and your attempts to strawman arguments by associating them with positions they are on the record as arguing vociferously against might sway a few shallow thinkers but they actually undermine your debate credibility.

I don't take offence when people choose to take a stick to a strawman. I also don't think you need to resort to such gimmicks to win your argument with notbatman.

Here is an article that will help you improve your debate skills.

Utilize the "Steel Man" Tactic to Argue More Effectively
https://lifehacker.com/utilize-the-steel-man-tactic-to-argue-more-effectivel-1632402742
Quote
"Straw man arguments" are utilized in debates to undermine the opposition. If you want to take the high road–and debate more effectively in the process–utilize the "steel man" argument.

Contrary to some common misinterpretations, a straw man is employed when one side on an argument creates a false narrative and then argues with that, instead of the point a person actually made.
...
The "steel man" is the opposite approach. As writer Robin Sloan explains, the steel man requires a debater to find the best form of her opponent's argument and then argue with this. Explain what you think your opponent means to them, ask them if they agree this is what they mean, and then argue with that. This is a tougher debate tactic because it allows for fewer shady arguments, but the result is a stance that holds up to scrutiny:
454  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 31, 2018, 08:58:34 AM

Income is only one factor.  The education level is probably a more significant factor that affects the birth rates.

Humanity would be better off if the birth rates were just above or equal to the death rates, i.e. if the population growth would be close to zero.

Pollution, wars, depleting resources come to mind.  The global population should not be growing at 1%, it should be more like 0.001%.  It would give us enough time to develop technology to search for a new home, outside of Earth.  Population doubling every 70 years will make this much more difficult.


Educational level is definitely a big factor with a few exceptions. Some religious groups have been shown to have more children at higher educational levels but that is the exception rather then the rule.

Your population growth estimate of doubling every 70 years is much too high. Population growth is slowing around the globe.

World population projected to reach 9.8 billion in 2050, and 11.2 billion in 2100

https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2017.html

455  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 31, 2018, 08:34:02 AM

Why Sweden Is On The Fast-Track To National Suicide
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-30/why-sweden-fast-track-national-suicide
Quote from: Robert Bridge
Firm in the belief they are representatives of the world’s ‘moral superpower,’ the Swedish people continue their dangerous flirtation with every new cultural experiment under the sun. Is this really ‘progressive’ politics, or is it the road to national ruin?


In Sweden, everything seems possible except for dissent; dissent from the ubiquitous social message that tells its citizens they must be tolerant of every new cultural fad – from getting micro-chipped under the skin to allowing four-year-olds to be indoctrinated in preschool with the newfangled concept of transgenderism.

Thousands of Swedes have already been implanted with tiny microchips, typically inserted in the left hand, that will allow them the ‘convenience’ of no longer fumbling around for their credit cards, identification, keys. Much of their personal information is stored on the chip, which is about the size of a piece of rice.

Amazingly, despite the potential for the government, corporations or other powerful entity to hack into these devices, that possibility never seems to enter Swedish discourse.

“Swedes have gone on to be very active in microchipping, with scant debate about issues surrounding its use, in a country keen on new technology and where the sharing of personal information is held up as a sign of a transparent society,” AFP notes.

Although the amount of data each chip can hold is currently limited, most technologies begin with humble origins before they eventually exert tremendous influence over their human ‘masters.’ The hand-held telephone is a great example. Beginning as a convenient method of communication, the ‘smart phone’ has now gone on to literally conquer the social and cultural domain. The next step may be the realm when, as predicted by former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, the “internet disappears.”

'There will be so many IP addresses...so many devices, sensors, things that you are wearing, things that you are interacting with that you won't even sense it,' he told an audience at the 2015 World Economic Forum in Davos.


Sweden, which has managed to avoid a major war for so long it may feel itself invincible, has willfully volunteered to serve as a guinea pig for the brave new technology, which many believe will herald in mankind’s total enslavement to the ‘system.’

Sweden’s cultural experimentation does not end with the microchip. In the realm of human behavior and sexuality it is also breaking down long-established barriers with its willingness to embrace the transgender movement.

First, full disclosure. My personal opinion on transgenderism (which in a nutshell says that the determination of an individual’s sex is based on an artificial ‘social construct’ and possible to change if only the individual wills it) is that it is largely a media-induced mass phenomenon, bordering on mass hysteria. After all, how is it possible that such a radical change in human behavior – which says that a man can be a woman (and vice-versa) so long as he “identifies” with that sex – when such a thing was absolutely unheard of less than a decade ago? Man has been evolving for millions of years and only today we hear about people being able to dream up a 'sexual identity'? The only explanation is that it was basically concocted out of the blue and pumped into the public realm on a daily basis until it was accepted as gospel. Which proves that the masses will happily assume any story as truth if it is repeated enough times.

In any case, as long as this new sexual identification (there are said to be over 60 different gender types today) remained confined to the realm of the adult world, and did not violate the rights of others (in the US during the Obama era, this was arguably not the case, as grown men who suddenly ‘identified’ as a woman, were legally permitted to use the women’s bathrooms and changing facilities, thereby posing a risk to women and children), then the phenomenon could be considered mostly innocuous.

But as with every new cultural curiosity that arises, Sweden has taken transgenderism to the extremes, to the point where it tolerates pre-schools approaching children as if they were ‘gender neutral’ freaks of nature.In this bizarre world of real-life make believe, Swedes have been addressing each other with the gender neutral pronoun “hen” since 2015.


Swedish schools also carry so-called ‘forward thinking’ books, like “Hästen & Husse,” which tells the story of a man who dresses up like a woman. His friend horse, apparently no less confused, is a “trans-species” that likes to run around the house imagining he is a dog.

With this sort of absolute insanity in the air, is it any wonder that the dazed and emasculated Swedish population allowed its government, nudged along by the financial clout of George Soros, to throw open the gates to scores of illegal Middle Eastern and African migrants, many of them escaping from NATO-led conflicts?    

Today, while Swedish schools are promoting gender neutral role models to their children, very male migrant gangs are making some parts of Sweden practically off limits to the general population. Paramedics and firefighters sometimes need police escorts before entering ‘vulnerable areas’, particularly in some neighborhoods of Malmo, Sweden’s third largest city.

As The Spectator reported, “the gang wars serve as a constant reminder of Sweden’s failed migration and integration policies. This is a problem for the government (and even the opposition) in a country that prides itself on being a ‘humanitarian superpower.’”

Despite the lawlessness on the streets, support for the far-right, anti-immigration Sweden Democrats party reportedly dropped to its lowest level since surging during the migration crisis of 2015.

In light of these seemingly unsustainable trends in this ‘progressive’ Nordic nation, one must ask the question: How long can the cultural experiments continue before the laboratory burns down?

456  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: May 31, 2018, 03:19:22 AM

PS. I'm just being entertained.  I feel like I am talking to a small child, but I'm being sincere to point out the fallacies in you logic to lead you out of your madness.  I tried to do the same thing with CoinCube...

If you want to spend time debating with flat earth advocates kindly leave me out of it. I am very much on record as opposing this ideology and have no further interest in the matter.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16144860#msg16144860
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16145645#msg16145645
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16146486#msg16146486
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16187200#msg16187200
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16188408#msg16188408
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1009045.msg16201212#msg16201212

For my efforts a flat earth advocate made me this little souvenir picture.




Don't be a CoinCube. Research flat earth.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22flat+earth%22




457  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 30, 2018, 10:56:41 AM
Wealth alone cannot account for Europe’s low birth rates
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/09/06/wealth-alone-cannot-account-for-europes-low-birth-rates

Quote
JULIAN ASSANGE, the founder of WikiLeaks and apparently an amateur demographer, is worried about Europe’s declining birth rate. In a recent tweet he posited that “Capitalism + atheism + feminism = sterility = migration”, and noted that the leaders of Britain, France, Germany and Italy are all childless.
...
Mr Assange’s tweet echoed sentiments expressed by RT (formerly Russia Today), a Kremlin-backed news organisation. Russian propagandists have long argued that the West’s declining fertility rate is evidence of its decline. A recent RT editorial claimed that “Europe has been committing protracted demographic suicide for several decades.”
...
Birth rates are indeed highly correlated with national income. But the fertility rates of many European countries are lower than would be expected if GDP per person were the only factor that mattered. Romania, for instance, has 1.5 births per adult woman. Based purely on its level of economic development, that figure would be expected to be around 2.1.
...
To try to distinguish the impact of each, The Economist tested their relationships with fertility rates across different countries. To measure religious observance, we used survey data from the Pew Research Centre, a think-tank. Levels of capitalism or feminism are harder to quantify, but an economic-liberty index produced by the Heritage Foundation, another think-tank, and a gender-equality index from the UN Development Programme may serve as proxies...Both gender equality and the share of population that is irreligious did seem to play a part.


458  Other / Politics & Society / Leela Zero and gradual rise of AI on: May 30, 2018, 07:15:39 AM
A group of volunteer developers recently decided to decentralize the techniques used by the DeepMind Google team and create a chess program that teaches itself chess. As they were volunteers they lacked the enormous computational resources of Google. To solve this problem they decentralized the work it asking the chess community to contribute a GPU or a CPU towards helping Leela learn chess.

The computational power required to do this is immense. The process uses Markov chain general reinforcement learning algorithms. Essentially the program plays itself millions of times and remembers favorable positions and tactics gradually improving over time. There is no human involvement in the learning it teaches itself from the basic rules of the game via trial and error.

As more games are played the algorithm gradually learns the game. Millions of games must be played to master the game with this technique making the computational power needed to immense. The load is more manageable, however, when spread across hundreds of volunteers.



The Graph above shows the playing strength of the Leela algorithm over time. Was is notable is the gradual but continuing improvement. The Elo rating in the table above represents the improvement in play over random moves. Leela is not as strong yet the very best traditional chess programs but it is already playing at the GrandMaster level.

How good will it get with time? No one really knows but it appears to be continuing to improve by the day. If you want to see if you can outplay a decentralized self learning algorithm you can challenge it to a game at the link below. Word of caution I am not a bad chess player and it utterly destroyed me on the hard difficulty.

http://play.lczero.org/

Industrial robot sales are growing at a rate of 14% a year etting the stage for 3.1 million industrial robots in operation globally by 2020. ARK Investment Management, a leading researcher in this market, says that industrial robot costs are expected to drop a solid 65% between 2015 and 2025. Impressively, the cost per robot will plunge from $31,000 to $11,000 over that decade of time.

Why Industrial Robot Sales are Sky High
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-29/why-industrial-robot-sales-are-sky-high



Chess is likely just the beginning. It's simple rules and clearly defined outcome make for an ideal cradle for such learning algorithms. There is no imagining how far this type of technology will progress with time. As the cost for labor drops like a rock due to an increasingly automated workforce true competition in the economy will for better or worse likely shift towards the computational race to solve new and complex challenges with every higher quality learning algorithms. These algorithms once fully developed will likely far surpass human efforts in the fields they are directed towards.  

As the saying goes we live in interesting times. One wonders what kind of money will be valued in a future economy that is increasingly dominated by the ability to efficiently compute solutions to complex problems via computational work. Something to think about before selling your bitcoins.

If you want to help Leela Zero learn to play chess it is easy to dedicate a GPU or a CPU towards this. Instructions to do so can be found here:

https://github.com/glinscott/leela-chess/wiki/Getting-Started
459  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 28, 2018, 06:58:43 PM

What about if your neighbors are a gay couple who adopted two Christian boys and dressed them as girls.  They also sublet to a group transvestites who go door to door to sell women's underwear and lipstick.  One time you saw your gay neighbors make out right in front of your house. They also burned bunch of bibles in their backyard (they called the fire department to warn them about the yard garbage fire).

Your son goes to the same school as the two boys and fell in love with one of them.  He told you that he will marry one of them.

They also have a nice statue of Jesus sitting on a massive cock made out of wood surrounded by the village people Apostles in their backyard.

Your other neighbor is a swinger couple who host swinger's parties in their backyard.  They keep inviting you to their parties to bang some hot 20 year olds with massive boobs but you keep refusing, you dream about it, but instead you go and read the bible with your wife.

1. What does the Bible say how to deal with your neighbors?
2. What would the people in the ancient Israel do to your neighbors after reading the Bible?

All of those activities are now totally legal. Your scenario sadly becoming less far fetched by the day. The Bible says those things are wrong and sinful severe crimes which should be outlawed. The Bible, however, does not promote vigilante justice.

In situations such as this it offers clear guidence. Move away, enroll your child in private school or home school and let your neighbors deal with the fallout of their own choices. See the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Biblical law does not promote vigilante justice. In ancient Israel the those suspected of capital crimes would be arrested and their would be a trial with strict standards of evidence including multiple eyewitness required for conviction.
460  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: May 27, 2018, 09:21:30 PM

You are better off with any other book.

As for God telling you what the moral standard is, be careful, hearing God is a sign of insanity.
 

Well we disagree.

As I said before I have yet to decide if the Torah and the Bible were written by God through inspired men or written by men inspired by the ideal of God. That is an important distinction I will need to make at some point.

In either case what is crystal clear to anyone who looks at the matter without bias is that the text is not something to be casually dismissed and worthy of deep examination and reflection.

This is the second or third time now that you have implied that I am insane or belong in a mental institution. I will take that as a sign you have nothing further of substance to discuss.

Readers of this thread will have to decide for themselves if my arguments represent a coherent logical position or the wild rambling ravings of a madman.
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