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1401  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: October 23, 2016, 10:03:39 AM
Personally I do not believe that religion could somehow affect human health. But people can convince themselves in all sorts of miracles. Therefore, religious people think that it is God who makes them healthy

Do you also believe religion has no effect on human behavior? If religion improves behavior then it can improve health. I linked to a number of studies showing religion is highly correlated with health upthread. However, for those uninterested in long research papers here is a short news article on the topic.

https://www.localxpress.ca/local-news/studying-the-link-between-religion-and-health-419810
Quote
Why do people who subscribe to religion tend to live longer than the rest of us?

That’s a question Zachary Zimmer, Mount Saint Vincent University’s new Canada research chair in global aging and community, is attempting to answer with a global study looking at data from the United States, Europe and Asia.

“People who are religious tend to live longer and be healthier than people who are not,” Zimmer told Local Xpress.

“Most of this comes from studies that have been conducted in the United States. In places where different kinds of religions are predominant, there hasn’t been as much research.”

One year into the three-year project, he hopes to eventually determine whether the same trend bears out around the world, including Canada.

“What’s not really known is whether this link is, first of all, consistent across different forms of religion, different degrees of religiosity and in different places around the world,” said Zimmer, a Manitoba native who just moved back to Canada after stints in New York, Utah, Nevada and California.

“What we’re looking at particularly in this study is a health outcome that we call health expectancy, which has more to do with quality of life than length of life,” said Zimmer
1402  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: October 17, 2016, 10:53:21 PM
90-Year-Old Florida Man Faces Jail Time, $500 Fine For Feeding Homeless
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/04/man-90-arrested-feeding-homeless_n_6100738.html
Quote
A Florida city was quick to show how serious it is about its new homeless feeding ban by making an example out of a 90-year-old advocate who’s been helping the hungry for two decades.

On Sunday police cited two Christian ministers and volunteer Arnold Abbott, 90, who runs the advocacy group, Love The Neighbor, Local 10 News reported.

The three served less than a handful of the 300 meals they prepared before the police run in, according to the Sentinel.

They each now face 60 days in jail and $500 fines.

“These are the poorest of the poor, they have nothing, they don’t have a roof over their heads,” Abbott, who plans on suing the city, told Local 10 News. “How do you turn them away?”



Dozen Arrested For Feeding Homeless In Orlando
http://www.govtslaves.info/dozen-arrested-for-feeding-homeless-in-orlando/
Quote
Members of the organization Food Not Bombs were in good spirits as they passed out corn on the cob, rice, beans and other vegetarian dishes to the homeless and hungry in an Orlando park. This cheer was interrupted when police officers on bicycles arrived and arrested five of the volunteers.

This is not the first time this scene has played out for members of Food Not Bombs.

Since June 1, a dozen members of the group have been arrested for violating a new Orlando city ordinance that prohibits sharing food with large groups in downtown parks more than twice a year.

The mayor of Orlando even branded them “food terrorists.”

Economics of Religion
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/economics-of-religion
Quote from: National Catholic Register
It would be difficult to convince the staff of a Catholic soup kitchen feeding the homeless that they are actually helping the U.S. economy, but that is exactly what an academic journal reports in its study on the economic impact of America’s churches. The Interdisciplinary Journal of Research on Religion found that religious communities contribute $1.2 trillion each year to the American economy.

These contributions range from the traditional economic drivers of any business to charitable giving, caring for the sick and poor, education and other kinds of services. That is more than the annual revenues of the top 10 tech companies, including Apple, Amazon and Google, combined. And if the $1.2 trillion is viewed in terms of the Gross Domestic Product, religion in the U.S. would be ranked as the 15th-largest national economy in the world.

The study looked at the 344,894 congregations in the country, from 236 religious denominations (217 are Christian, and the rest include everything from Shinto to Zoroastrianism). What it discovered was that believers are not only contributing massively to the economy, but they are incredibly generous, too. Despite declining religious affiliation in the U.S. population, religious communities have actually tripled the amount of money spent on social programs in the last 15 years, donating $9 billion to the cause.

At a time when the relevance of faith is being questioned by media elites and the government, and when believers — Christians, above all — are being ridiculed and pushed out of the public square, there is now tangible evidence of the practical value that the mere presence of faith offers to America. Believers are a vital and vibrant part of the economic and social life of the United States, as vital and vibrant as at any time in American history.
1403  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 87-Year-Old Woman Going Back to Prison for Debunking Holocaust Hoax on: October 15, 2016, 10:25:04 PM
I do not understand why people are so intent on denying reality. There are no reason to doubt the Holocaust. The historic evidence is overwhelming and the policy of exterminating ones enemies follows logically from Nazi ideology.

The Nazi's lost the war because they were evil and evil tends to self destruct. If Hitler had given Ukraine independence instead of brutally subjugating it and worked to build a White Russian liberation army out of his 4 million soviet prisoners of war from Operation Barbarossa Nazi Germany while limiting his territorial ambitions on the Russian heartland he would have had a shot at winning the war and destroying the USSR. However, such actions are incompatible with the Nazi ideology which viewed the Jews as a poisonous race and the Slavic peoples as a race of slaves in need of a master. The USSR was pretty evil too so it takes something really special to make them into good guys.

Nazi Germany did its very best to exterminate all its enemies military and civilian. Between June 1941 and January 1942, when the Germans killed an estimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs primarily through starvation. The entire German assault on Russia in Operation Barbarossa included only 4.5 million men which was around 80% of the German army at the time. For the average Russian Stalin was a horror but the Nazi's offered them only extermination and death in his place.

Russia had no choice it was either fight for continued existence or surrender and face death and slavery. A people with nothing to lose will fight to the death. This is what allowed a Russian army inferior in every way to ground down and crush the Germans with sheer numbers and blood. The best documentary on WW2 that I have seen is a soviet one tells the story of world war two from a Russian perspective (link below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhXKlYnSWjA

The Nazi's were very good at killing their enemies. They did the best they could to kill every Jewish person in the world. They killed about 40%. They also did their best to wipe out the Russians 12.5% of Russians were killed in WW2 and even 16.5% of the Ukrainians who were largely opposed to the soviet union and initially greeted the Germans as liberators. The tremendous casualties in Ukraine (which could have been a Nazi ally) highlight the insanity of the the regime and the inevitability of their defeat.

Given the Nazi's view that this was an existential struggle and their views that the Jews were poison and the Slavs rebellious subhuman slaves mass extermination and oppression is the logical policy. It is the result of a grossly twisted worldview.

Here is a link to a speech given by Hitler describing his reasons for invading Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hYDx2LtLv4

He believed the Soviet Union was a threat to Nazi Germany and he was probably right about that.

However, the Nazi's also believed that strength alone gives one the right to to exterminate and dominate others. That is was acceptable to conquer and exterminate another people to make living space for ones own people. It is this lack of morality that leads them to the very policies that result in their inevitable defeat.
1404  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: October 15, 2016, 09:02:27 PM
Stanford Health Opens Clinic For Transgender Children
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Stanford-Health-Opens-Clinic-For-Transgender-Children--396872401.html
Quote from:  Ryann Vargas
The Stanford Children’s Health Gender Clinic now provides hormonal, psycho-social, and gynecologic services for gender non-conforming youth in the Bay Area. The clinic officially opened in Sunnyvale on July 1 2016.
...
Now, the Gender Clinic gives patients and their families a one-stop shop for multidisciplinary health. A pediatric endocrinologist, urologist, gynecologist, along with an adolescent medicine specialist and social worker all work together in the new clinic.
...

"There are usually two phases of hormone treatment," Dr. Tandy Aye said.

"One is to kind of stop puberty when puberty begins in young children. It's to kind of halt it so that the child doesn't experience the wrong puberty, the biological puberty, and it should be the one that they identify with."

The "halt" Aye says gives patients and their parents time to process what is happening and to continue to make decisions before the second round of hormones.

"Around age 16 and sometimes younger that's when what we call the cross-sex hormones get added into so they can make that transition," Aye said

Gender Ideology Harms Children
https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children
Quote from: American College of Pediatricians
The American College of Pediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex. Facts – not ideology – determine reality.
...
Puberty is not a disease and puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous. Reversible or not, puberty- blocking hormones induce a state of disease – the absence of puberty – and inhibit growth and fertility in a previously biologically healthy child....
...
According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.
...
Rates of suicide are twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBTQ – affirming countries. What compassionate and reasonable person would condemn young children to this fate knowing that after puberty as many as 88% of girls and 98% of boys will eventually accept reality and achieve a state of mental and physical health?
...
Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse. Endorsing gender discordance as normal via public education and legal policies will confuse children and parents, leading more children to present to “gender clinics” where they will be given puberty-blocking drugs. This, in turn, virtually ensures that they will “choose” a lifetime of carcinogenic and otherwise toxic cross-sex hormones, and likely consider unnecessary surgical mutilation of their healthy body parts as young adults.

American College of Pediatricians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians
Quote from: wikipedia
The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a small, socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.

The group was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians, including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)...

ACPeds describes itself as "a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children... committed to fulfilling its mission by producing sound policy, based upon the best available research, to assist parents and to influence society in the endeavor of childrearing."

Zanga has described it as a group with Judeo-Christian, traditional values.
1405  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 50% of Hillary’s Donations Come from Jews on: October 13, 2016, 06:18:44 AM
"2 Kinds?"  Really?
...

Can we please stop making generalizations about other people on BCT?

Could not agree more -- OP / illustration is ignorant, inflammatory & offensive.

Ok but to clarify the division of Judaism into two fundamental groups as I did is not my idea it comes from strains of thought within Judaism itself. I first heard of this division from a Rabbi who referred to it as the fundamental distinction between Jewish groups.

Obviously there are many branches of Judaism but the case can be made that the biggest division (not the only) centers around torah observance (see links below).  The fact that the torah observant overwhelmingly support Trump while other jewish groups overwhelmingly favor Clinton also highlights large differences.

http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/orth-nonorth.htm

http://www.timesofisrael.com/what-happens-when-two-jews-means-two-different-peoplehoods/

Regardless, I do not want to continue bumping this thread and its opening post so I will bow out of this conversation.
1406  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 50% of Hillary’s Donations Come from Jews on: October 13, 2016, 01:15:05 AM
Remember there are two major types of Jews in the world.

A) Torah observant Jews who strictly follow the moral code of their religion.
and
B) Non observant Jews who have rejected some or all of Torah observance.

These groups are very different.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/264337/jews-choose-trump-daniel-greenfield

Quote
There is grumbling in progressive circles over polls showing that Orthodox (Torah observant) Jews will vote for Trump. Among non-Orthodox Jews, Hillary beats Trump by 66 to 23 percent. Among the Orthodox, Trump beats her 66 to 22 percent. In New York, Hillary scores 61 to 19 percent among Jews, but among Orthodox Jews, Trump wins 50% of the vote while Hillary lags at 21%.  

It’s no wonder then that Jewish Democrats for Trump is largely targeting Orthodox Jewish voters.

I have found the orthodox and modern orthodox to be some of the most admirable and inspiring people I have the pleasure of interacting with. I have a less favorable opinion of the rest of Judaism. Also the picture above in the OP is offensive and more importantly counterproductive.     
1407  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Health and Religion on: October 08, 2016, 09:03:04 PM
The pill is linked to depression – and doctors can no longer ignore it
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/03/pill-linked-depression-doctors-hormonal-contraceptives

Quote from: Holly Grigg-Spall
A newly published study from the University of Copenhagen has confirmed a link between hormonal contraceptives and depression. The largest of its kind, with one million Danish women between the ages of 15 and 34 tracked for a total of 13 years, it’s the kind of study that women such as me, who have experienced the side-effects of birth control-induced depression first hand, have been waiting for.

Women taking pill more likely to be treated for depression, study finds Researchers found that women taking the combined oral contraceptive were 23% more likely to be diagnosed with depression and those using progestin-only pills (also known as “the mini-pill”) were 34% more likely. Teens were at the greatest risk of depression, with an 80% increase when taking the combined pill, and that risk is two-fold with the progestin-only pill. In addition, other hormone-based methods commonly offered to women seeking an alternative to the pill – such as the hormonal IUS/coil, the patch and the ring – were shown to increase depression at a rate much higher than either kind of oral contraceptives.

In recent years we’ve seen efforts from the NHS and family planning organisations to encourage teens to use these so-called LARCs (long-acting reversible contraceptives), primarily because they eliminate the need to remember to take a pill every day, but also due to the fact they’re commonly believed to have less severe potential side-effects than the pill. The new research suggests this practice is misguided. We already know that those with pre-existing depression may find the pill worsens their symptoms, and if teens were at greater risk of depression, then continuing this practice would be negligent

The researchers note that, because GPs are less likely to prescribe the pill to women who already have depression and because women who do experience depression on the pill are more likely to stop taking it, this study probably underestimates the potential negative affect that hormonal contraceptives can have on mental health.

Study can be found here
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2552796
1408  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: October 06, 2016, 06:00:34 AM
Some interesting reading I came across today.

World War II Foo Fighters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter#Sightings

Quote
The first sightings occurred in November 1944, when pilots flying over Germany by night reported seeing fast-moving round glowing objects following their aircraft. The objects were variously described as fiery, and glowing red, white, or orange. Some pilots described them as resembling Christmas tree lights and reported that they seemed to toy with the aircraft, making wild turns before simply vanishing. Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with their aircraft and behaved as if under intelligent control, but never displayed hostile behavior. However, they could not be outmaneuvered or shot down. The phenomenon was so widespread that the lights earned a name – in the European Theater of Operations they were often called "kraut fireballs" but for the most part called "foo-fighters". The military took the sightings seriously, suspecting that the mysterious sightings might be secret German weapons, but further investigation revealed that German and Japanese pilots had reported similar sightings

A video that describes these world war 2 sightings objectively.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BqLB72wtgc

Was this mass hallucination by tired pilots or something else? Not enough evidence to say.
I find it interesting, however, that these reports seem to have not started until around 1944. World war II was nearing its end at that time with the defeat of the axis powers inevitable. There was, however, a new technology that had just come online.

The X-10 Graphite Reactor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-10_Graphite_Reactor
Quote
The X-10 Graphite Reactor was the first reactor designed and built for continuous operation. It was built during World War II as part of the Manhattan Project... The reactor went critical on November 4, 1943, and produced its first plutonium in early 1944. It supplied the Los Alamos Laboratory with its first significant amounts of plutonium, and its first reactor-bred product. Studies of these samples heavily influenced bomb design.

To any hypothetical entity advanced enough to be hanging out in near earth at the time starting the X-10 Graphite Reactor would likely be akin to setting off a signal flare.

Detection of (Nuclear) Reactors by their Gamma-ray and Positron Emissions
http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs01primackA.pdf

Quote from:  Joel R. Primack
A ban on nuclear reactors in orbit could be verified using the tremendous flux of gamma rays and positrons that such reactors emit when operating. Indeed, these radiations already constitute a significant background for orbiting gamma-ray
astronomical satellites.

In this paper, we estimate the gamma-ray flux from reactors on spacecraft, using the design parameters for the US SP-100 space reactor as an example. We then summarize the sensitivities of several existing and planned gamma-ray detectors.

Finally, one last interesting data point to consider.

Green fireballs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs#Early_green_fireballs
Quote
Green fireballs are a type of unidentified flying object which have been sighted in the sky since the late 1940s.[1] Early sightings primarily occurred in the southwestern United States, particularly in New Mexico.[2][3][4] They were once of notable concern to the US government because they were often clustered around sensitive research and military installations, such as Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratory, then Sandia base.

Meteor expert Dr. Lincoln LaPaz headed much of the investigation into the fireballs on behalf of the military. LaPaz's conclusion was that the objects displayed too many anomalous characteristics to be a type of meteor and instead were artificial, perhaps secret Russian spy devices... The green fireballs were seen by many people of high repute including LaPaz, distinguished Los Alamos scientists, Kirtland AFB intelligence officers and Air Command Defense personnel.[5] ...

Perhaps the most graphic example occurred during the "Buster series" of atomic tests on November 1 and 5, 1951, which were accompanied by so many reported green fireball sightings in states affected by fallout, that even the New York Times carried a story on November 9, "Southwest's 7 Fireballs in 11 Days Called 'Without Parallel in History'." Dr. LaPaz was widely quoted saying, "There has never been a rate of meteorite fall in history that has been one-fifth as high as the present fall. If that rate should continue, I would suspect the phenomenon is not natural... [they] don't behave like ordinary meteorites at all."

Initially the green fireballs were reported in Arizona and New Mexico as the fallout clouds left Nevada, but as the clouds spread out and drifted further east, south, and north, green fireball sightings then followed in Texas, northern Mexico, Iowa, Kansas, Indiana, Michigan, and New York. Portions of the fallout also drifted west into the Los Angeles area on November 7, followed the next day by a green fireball sighting there...

Summarizing the rash of fireball sightings in November 1951, Wilson commented, "Some researchers imply that the radioactivity itself was producing the green fireballs, possibly as an electrostatic effect.

Wilson concluded, "We can make one statement of fact: the fireball sightings—green or otherwise—occurred in areas that received radioactive debris from Operation Buster. Was this just coincidence, or a planned occurrence? We simply don't know, so all we can do is to continue to collect data and see if some overwhelmingly convincing pattern emerges." Wilson nonetheless felt the evidence pointed to the fireballs being real, artificial, and those responsible having some sort of agenda."

Again no proof here, but probably enough to justify keeping an open mind regarding various possible causes. Perhaps world war 2 pilot's where simply prone to seeing similar types of hallucinations. Perhaps the green fireballs are the result of some type of atmospheric phenomena that we still do not really understand today or of unprecedented meteor shower. Nevertheless, alternative theories cannot be entirely dismissed here.
1409  Other / Politics & Society / VP Debate and Google News Search Results on: October 05, 2016, 03:22:26 PM
Just thought it would be interesting to share the following three search results from Google News.

Searching for "Kaine wins VP debate" returns the following
Tim Kaine didn't win Mr. Congeniality — but he got the job done in ...Salon-3 hours ago
Mike Pence Steamrolled Tim Kaine And Moderator Elaine Quijano ...Forbes-4 hours ago
Why Pence's debate win just might matter - Opinion-CBS News-10 hours ago
Vice Presidential Debate: Live Analysis and Fact Checking In-Depth-Wall Street Journal-12 hours ago
Pence, Kaine face off in VP debate: Catch up on what you missed Bog-USA TODAY (blog)-12 hours ago
Mike Pence won the debate by not being annoying Opinion-The Boston Globe-3 hours ago

Searching for "Pence wins VP debate" returns the following
The Daily 202: Pence wins, Trump loses in vice-presidential debate -Washington Post-1 hour ago
THE BIG IDEA: Conventional wisdom gelled overnight that Mike Pence prevailed -New York Post-1 hour ago
Mike Pence won the debate by not being annoying Opinion-The Boston Globe-3 hours ago
Vice-Presidential Debate: What You Missed In-Depth-New York Times-15 hours ago
Pence, Kaine face off in VP debate: Catch up on what you missed - Blog-USA TODAY (blog)-12 hours ago
COMMENTARY: Why Pence's debate win just might matter Opinion-CBS News-10 hours ago

So same thing right. Media consensus? Possibly but where things get interesting is if you ask a different question one an undecided voter might ask

Searching for "Vice president debate winner?"
Winners and losers from the vice-presidential debate Washington Post-11 hours ago
"Indiana Gov. Mike Pence and Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine stood toe-to-toe for 90 minutes in the lone vice presidential debate of the 2016 election."
Analysis: No clear winner in vice presidential debate - Aljazeera.com-8 hours ago
Pence edges Kaine in VP debate instant poll - International-YourErie-8 hours ago
Who won the vice presidential debate? - Opinion-CNN-8 hours ago
Vice-Presidential Debate: What You Missed - In-Depth-New York Times-15 hours ago
Live from the vice presidential debate - Blog-Politico (blog)-Oct 4, 2016
Who won the US vice presidential debate? - Jerusalem Post Israel News-7 hours ago
Pence takes tougher line than Trump on Russia at contentious VP ...Reuters-4 hours ago
The Latest: RNC declares Pence debate winner before start -Washington Post-15 hours ago

What I find interesting is that the results for the third query are so different. When we rely on a single search provider to aggregate our news and information we become dependent on what that provider decides we should know.  

1410  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Transhumanism: Good, Bad or Natural Evolution? on: October 04, 2016, 05:26:21 AM
Interesting videos I watched them both. Creator of the video is worried about transhumanism which is reasonable and probably why he added the disturbing imagery pictures of hell, video of a man cutting up a monkey brain, the images of the poor cat and monkey who got their brains operated on while they were alive etc.

Essentially the videos lay out the reasons homo sapiens are in danger of extinction caused by our own achievements. Overall it is a solid presentation. It makes a strong case that our fate whatever its outcome is entirely beyond our abilities to alter. Further progress is inevitable. Our very essence will relentlessly push us farther down our current path.

The best quote comes at the end of the second video.

Quote from: Michael Grosso
We may be on the threshold of acquiring godlike capacities... we may reach towards a kind of omniscience we may reach towards a kind of omnipotence... but technology is never going to be able to transform us into divinely loving merciful or compassionate beings. That part the moral dimension... remains a problem remains a choice and in that sense (transhumanism) does not change human history

Transhumanism as described would radically change everything we know, and yet on a fundamental level it would change nothing.
1411  Other / Off-topic / Re: Flat Earth on: September 29, 2016, 01:08:58 AM
NASA gets caught faking the ISS... again - Flat Earth

Damn you notbatman et al.! I can't find no logical reason for how that live performance was accomplished given the delay.

grammar is the sarcasm cue here but just in case anyone is actually confused. The video list conspiracy possibilities A and B which are highly unlikely. Far more probable are

Possibility C) The astronaut portion was simply prerecorded and thus only the earth part was actually live.

Or

Possibility D) The astronaut set the pace and just played without actually listening to anything played and sung on land. The musicians on land could then simply just match their tempo and their music to his song as it arrived.
1412  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 29, 2016, 12:49:28 AM
the very nature of things shows a gradual breaking down of complexity.

I would argue that this statement is false.  

We would be wise to consider entropy from the perspective of information theory.
This approach likely takes us closest to what entropy actually is rather then simple physical manifestations of it.  
According to information theory entropy is a measure of unpredictability of information content.  

see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory)

How does this apply to life and a gradual breaking down of complexity? Here is a nice post from Anonymint where he analyzes this.

If we consider each lifeform in isolation, then a lifeform appears to be dissipative because energy is input and order is increased in the form of aggregating chemical structures (which comprise the body of that lifeform) that comprise higher energy states than their decompositions.

But that doesn't describe life (as distinct from lifeform) at all. These highly ordered lifeforms are interacting to create the much higher information system of evolution. Each lifeform alone is insignificant to anything on any significant scale, yet evolution has given human society the information content to travel across the solar system in outer space. No single lifeform could have attained that entropy/capability (read on...).

Entropy is not some vague concept. It has a precise mathematical definition which is the sum of the logarithmic relation of the number and probability of the possible configurations (a.k.a. states) in the system, i.e. it is measure of the granularity and uniformness of possibilities in the system, i.e. the availability to fitness (to receive work) of the system.  Mankind could not have achieved such amazing feats without a much larger scope of capability states and more distributed probabilities within that scope. In other words, if all lifeforms were capable of doing only one thing, mankind can't accomplish many things. If lifeforms can't interact to form higher information content, then their input to evolution can be lost and the information content decreases.

If you only focus on the biological lifeforms, you miss the entropic force. Biological lifeforms considered only physically and in isolation from the network effects (and memory of evolution) is just a zero sum game if without the entropic relationship. It is akin to focusing only on the actors of the system and treating the interaction of lifeforms (not in the physical but in the informational and evolutionary memory perspective) here on earth as a closed thermodynamic system.Thermodynamics tells us that entropy depends not only on the net flow of energy but also the work dissipated external to the system. The information content of evolution is orthogonal to the physical work done on earth, so all the energy being input is also being dissipated out of the open information system of evolution.

Considering only lifeforms is as silly as saying the entropy of a software program doesn't increase as its Kolmogorov complexity increases. it is irrelevant that the physical manifestation of that knowledge is highly ordered in the physical world where it is stored or represented. The information content has increased. Any one claims there isn't an interaction between that information content and the real physical world is loony and denies the obvious.

Edit: what is interesting to me is how information content increases as the physical thermodynamics becomes more and more indirectly coupled to the system of the information content. One typically thinks of entropy as decay or decomposition but this process is coincident with an increase in information capacity as the potential number of independent states is greater the less mass/inertia is involved. Again if Professor Stolfi only wants to count atoms, then there is nothing for us to talk about. To argue that the information content of software or evolution doesn't interact with the physical realm doesn't make any sense to me. To argue that information content is bounded by atoms of the lifeforms doesn't make any sense as well, and probably if I take some time to formalize it I will be able to. Heading this direction will likely lead to some unifying discoveries in Physics such as the recent discovery that gravity can be shown mathematically to emerge from the entropic force.

Imagine if life was perfect and without chance. Life would be deterministic and could be modeled with an algorithm, then failure couldn't exist, everything would be known in advance, and thus there could be no change that wasn't predictable, i.e. real change wouldn't exist and the universe would be static. Life requires imperfection and unbounded diversity, else life doesn't exist and isn't alive. Equality and perfection are the ambition of the insane who probably don't realize they must destroy life to reach their goal.

Thus the theory that it would be impossible to predict what computers would contemplate is nonsense because the input entropy of the models of the brain will always be finite and deterministic from the time the input entropy is varied.

Pseudo-random number generators are deterministic from the time the seed is changed. Even dynamically capturing entropy from the changing content of the internet would be deterministic from each moment of capture to the next, and the model of capture would be lacking diversity and static (only modified by a human).

The 160 IQ genius Microsoft founder Paul Allen refers to this as “specialized knowledge” in The Complexity Brake, yet he thinks the brain is finite because he apparently didn't consider that every finite human brain is unique; thus systemic creative thought possesses dynamic unbounded entropy.

Ray Kurzweil responded that the human genome (DNA) has a finite information content, and claimed that humans possess a canonical brain which is differentiated by what is learned from the environment during each human lifetime.

Since the portion of the human genome pertaining to the brain has an entropy in the millions or billions, each human brain is potentially at least one-in-a-million or one-in-a-billion unique. Notwithstanding that uniqueness, if human evolution was entirely encoded in a finite genome, then it would be mathematically possible for a plurality of humans to have identical brains at some point in time as the brain forms before differentiation from non-identical learning environments. However, the brain is learning and exposed to the environment as it is forming in the womb, thus there is never a point in time where the brain was entirely structured from only the information in the DNA.

Thus evolution is not just an encoding from the environment to the genome, rather a continuous interaction between the ongoing environment and the genome. Thus for computers to obtain the same entropy of the collective human brainpower, they would need to be human reproducing, contributing to genome and interacting with the environment in the ways humans do. Even if computers could do this, the technological singularity would not occur, because the computers would be equivalent to adding more humans to the population.

The implication is that the creativity of humankind is enhanced as the human population grows. And culling the population to increase average IQ would reduce human creativity. Resilient systems don't have low entropy.

Claude Shannon showed us that the capacity for information content is equivalent to the entropy of a system. As elucidated above, the entropy of our universe is inseparable from life, thus information is alive.
1413  Other / Off-topic / Re: Flat Earth on: September 28, 2016, 01:24:21 AM
The Most Difficult Fifty Bucks I Ever Earned
http://www.scifiwright.com/2016/09/the-most-difficult-fifty-bucks-i-ever-earned/

Quote from: John C. Wright
A reader asked me to view the following two hour lecture on geocentrism. He promised me fifty bucks if I was not convinced. I wished I had asked for more. This was painful to sit through.

The man involved, Robert Sungenis, is, to put the matter kindly, a smug and dishonest crackpot without even the zealous honesty the other crackpots, flatearthers and theosophists, tend to radiate.

I was trying to count the number of scientific errors he made, and gave up counting when I realized every statement contained a scientific error but one. (He is correct that the microwave background radiation in space is not symmetrical).

The argument was grossly illogical, merely an assertion that there is a conspiracy theory among scientists to discredit the Bible, and that scientists falsify results and ignore contrary experiments due to personal prejudice.

It haunts and horrifies me that any educated person could be deceived by this man. Robert Sungenis is an uncharismatic version of Professor Harold Hill, the Music Man. Only not as amusing, and without the song and dance.

Here is the lecture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwx7bYEUIF4&ab_channel=LoneStar1776

Fairness requires me to at least list to the points I found unpersausive.

Professor Harold Hill (as I shall call him hereafter) begins with a fifteen minute explanation of his purpose, which is to show that the Earth is the center of the universe in order to undermine the atheist view that the Earth is in an insignificant area of a vast cosmos.

He repeats this several times, and the argument is never made more logically than this: he rejects anything other than a flatly literal interpretation of the Bible as discrediting the whole of the Bible, so that if an ancient writer speaks of the sun rising or the moon setting, this is support for geocentrism.

The problem with Biblical literalism is that it requires a firmament of water above the atmosphere, plants older than the sun, and the presence of unicorns in the wilderness, leviathans in the sea, and God having hands and feet and wings and so on.

As  Roman Catholic, I am not bound to affirm that every non-scholarly flatfooted literal reading in translation of every passage of the Bible, taken out of context, means what the non-scholar says. So, to me, the idea that even one Christian lost his faith due to the Copernican theory is absurd (or, rather, that only absurd Christians would find this a challenge to their faith) much less that the orbit of the Earth around the sun is the main reason for loss of Christian faith in the modern day. The Copernican theory was not an issue for Christians until the Evengelical movement springing from the Protestant movement, some hundreds of years after the entire Christian world saw no conflict between astronomy and theology. It is a make believe problem believed neither by honest scientists nor by orthodox Christians.

The fight between faith and reason exists only the narrow minds of atheists who worship science without understanding it and heretics who worship the Bible without understanding it: two brands of idolaters, each a mirror reflection of the other.

As an ex-atheist, I solemnly assure you that not a single atheist, no, not one, would give a flying fig over whether geocentrism were proven true. Earth being in the center of the cosmos does not prove God exists, or even hint as much. How many atheist of your acquaintance fell down and worshiped God when the Big Bang became the standard model?

Lucretius the Roman philosopher and poet was an atheist (or, at least, a man who believed the serene gods never interfered in human affairs) and he believed the geocentric model.

Astronomy is not what makes atheist doubt the witness of the Christians. (More likely, it is our lack of charity and godliness that makes them doubt.)

The medieval writers who put Earth in the center of gravity, where are all the heavy, mundane, mortal, and un-divine material fell, regarded the center of the universe as the bottom, where hell was. The Earth’s surface was the roof of hell. The stars were the palaces of the saints and angels, the important part of the universe. We were the sewer.

And, as writers from Chesterton to Lewis have pointed out, in no sober man does the size of the universe show man to be too small for the concern of God, rather than stand in mute witness to His glory.

Man is indeed small in relation to the universe. For that matter, he is small in relation to the nearest tree.

Arguing that heliocentrism moves man from the central position of God’s love to a forgotten corner of the cosmos is as illogical as arguing that Caesar must be a god but Christ cannot be god, because Caesar was in Rome, adorned in purple, whereas Christ was born in a stinking stable in an obscure frontier of the Empire.

Only someone unfamiliar with (or perhaps an enemy of) both Christian humility and scientific honesty could make such a stupid argument as to claim heliocentrism erodes faith and geocentrism will restore it.

Therefore when Professor Hill says at the outset that his purpose is not to learn science, but to use science to teach about God, salvation and the eternity of the soul, he attempting gross malfeasance, first by identifying a wrong cause of atheism (it is not caused by heliocentrism) and second by identifying a wrong method of Biblical exegesis (expecting science to match tin-eared literalism of those heretics who worship the Bible, not Christ.)

So the introduction gave me the intellectual measure  of the man: the question he approaches are above his mental pay grade.

(more commentary at link below)
http://www.scifiwright.com/2016/09/the-most-difficult-fifty-bucks-i-ever-earned/
1414  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 27, 2016, 06:28:39 PM

BADecker and logic never goes together

If the interpretation of Genesis above correct then Genesis describes something that science would not grasp for another 3,000+ years.
The overall interpretation is very much a theistic one if perhaps unconventional.

Perhaps it is not such a good idea to immediately dismiss BADeckers positions as illogical without first evaluating and weighing them. 
1415  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 27, 2016, 05:53:42 PM
Who or what were the vegetables for in pre-sin times?

Cool

I suspect some logical extrapolation is allowed here.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/what-do-monkeys-eat.html
Quote
Most monkeys are omnivores. They love eating ripe fruits and seeds, but they also eat vegetables. Besides bark and leaves, they eat honey and flowers as well. The howler monkey is known as the loudest land animal. You can hear their loud calls even when you are 3 miles away from them in jungles. They are strictly vegetarians and enjoy eating small, young, tender leaves by hanging upside down from their tails. Their diet consists of fresh fruits like yams, bananas, grapes, and green vegetables. Various plants in the canopy layer of the rainforests act as cups and store water for them. Facts about monkeys inform us that they use their lips and hands skillfully to eat only those parts of vegetation which they want. All monkeys wander in search of food during the day,
1416  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 27, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
The more I think about it, the more I see that God created everything tame and domesticated, under the complete control of mankind. Then sin came, and many (most?) things turned wild. As usual, science has it backward.

Cool

Not sure I would agree in with the underlined part. We are told God's first instructions to man are "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:"

Subdue implies a process dominion yes but not necessarily without effort.


I would agree. Too strong of a statement. We can't even kill all the plants and animals off.

Cool

Also relevant is that in the Garden of Eden man was told that he was to eat from every herb bearing seed upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed.

It was only after he had sinned was he told that he would eat the herb of the field.
1417  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 27, 2016, 11:32:34 AM
The more I think about it, the more I see that God created everything tame and domesticated, under the complete control of mankind. Then sin came, and many (most?) things turned wild. As usual, science has it backward.

Cool

Not sure I would agree in with the underlined part. We are told God's first instructions to man are "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:"

Subdue implies a process dominion yes but not necessarily without effort.

Rather then the entire world changing when sin came it seems more likely that only man changed only man went wild. The sin (obtaining knowledge of good and evil) had so altered mans nature that he could no longer live in harmony in the garden. His very essence now made that impossible.
1418  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 27, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
You are actually trying to make something out of nothing.

What is wrong with finding examples of domestication and asking questions about these traits?

Nothing wrong at all. Having an open mind and questioning accepted consensus is what allows progress. However, I am also not yet fully convinced of the validity of the first posit in the OP.  Given this uncertainty I would note that my argument in the OP can proceed if only the second posit is true.
 
Intervention Theory in regards to plant domestication is a bold claim. It is a factual claim and one that with time and study we should be able to find increasing and objective evidence for one way or another. As we lack definitive data currently it is not unreasonable for most to support the status quo of modern biology.

However, I also believe it unwise to totally reject the theoretical possibility of intervention theory. Our overall knowledge is limited. Until the history of crop domestication is fully understood one cannot completely rule it out.
1419  Other / Politics & Society / Re: First Debate: Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton on: September 26, 2016, 10:46:58 PM
I don't really get why anyone gives a shit. They're all rehearsed up front and this is common knowledge. I suppose we can count on Donny to chuck a spanner in the works for a lark.

Because most people feel that someone else can fix the world for them when the reality is they should be focusing on fixing themselves.

Quote from: Unknown author
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.
1420  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism on: September 26, 2016, 10:21:59 PM
...
What if EVERYTHING were domesticated back in prehistory, and there were no "aliens" or whatever to improve things. What if the closest to this were only demons that caused complex domesticated things to become wild.

What if everything still is domesticated. Perhaps the only things that are wild are man and that which man has bent to his will and corrupted.
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