Health and Religion

[Astargath]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

I don't see how your answer has anything to do with what we were discussing, which is morals, homosexuality and punishments but go ahead, be delusional as always.

You can't seem to understand that there is no use for homosexuality, and that it is therefore imperfection.

People of the same sex can sleep together if it doesn't involve the sexual acts that heterosexual people do. They can be best of friends... even better friends than husband and wife... as long as they don't do the sexual acts that are to be done between heterosexuals only.

It is the imperfection that is the problem.

There is no use for me to play football or any other sport or any videogame either, so what? Should I be killed for it? Use for what exactly? If imperfection is the problem then everything is a sin.

[Astargath]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

[BADecker]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

God's Spirit to your spirit doesn't happen to you - yes, you. But if it did, you wouldn't necessarily hear voices.

[Astargath]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

God's Spirit to your spirit doesn't happen to you - yes, you. But if it did, you wouldn't necessarily hear voices.

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

[BADecker]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

[Astargath]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

I know it bothers you really hard but I was, when I was a kid I truly believed, why wouldn't I. When I needed proof god didn't give it to me so here we are. However the rules of the bible are still idiotic, examples above.

[Dinushan_US]

Every Religion lead us to clam down clear our mind and otherwise when we are in series lost in our life religions gives us relief therefore religions help us to mental relief

[gbale]

I believe that religion brings human beings into real human beings because religious teachings regulate every line of human life with rules of rules that limit human nature...

[BADecker]

I believe that religion brings human beings into real human beings because religious teachings regulate every line of human life with rules of rules that limit human nature...

Some animals need to be caged.  That is why we have secular laws.  If we did not have secular laws but use religious laws instead, we would be killing people en masse, chopping of hands and stoning people.

However, your ideas are where we are presently. But if we used religious laws, a cleansing would be started, and the bad people who saw the cleansing coming their way would turn good out of fear. This means that there would be far less execution than you describe, and evil would all but disappear.

Secular law is weak. It allows for all kinds of slaps on the wrist when evil is done. So, people are encouraged to be more evil. If the punishment matched the crime we would have less evil for two reasons:
1. The evil people would be executed;
2. Or they would change to good out of fear.

Secular laws are weak, and that's why we have constant evil.

[BADecker]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

I know it bothers you really hard but I was, when I was a kid I truly believed, why wouldn't I. When I needed proof god didn't give it to me so here we are. However the rules of the bible are still idiotic, examples above.

You simply didn't wait for God to show you, in His way. Faith in God is accepting Him even when He does His convincing in ways that you might not understand immediately. Perhaps, unlike most kids, you were of weak faith right from the beginning. Or else you were distracted by your own ideals, or something else.

[BADecker]

So God is a dictator?  How do you know what God wants?

Are you sure?  Maybe it is what you want?  Your personal projection on what God wants is enough proof that God is in your head.

But we have been over this many times.

I suspect you secretly wish the printing press has never been invented because people would only read from one book, the Bible.

Guess what? Your religion con is up.  It has been exposed.  Hopefully, humanity can look past the ancient zombie myths (Jesus, Mithras, Osiris etc) and advance forward.

You religitards are a dying breed.
  

God absolutely IS a dictator. What do dictators do? They dictate, right? God dictates freedom, so that you have the ability to do what you want. He also dictates what is best for you to do in your freedom, so that you can have freedom in the best way. It is up to you to be more free by listening to God's dictation, or less free by doing your own dictation.

The printing press is great. It allows for Bibles to be spread around the world. And the Bibles are being spread more than any other book. Why? Because the Bible is the best information out there. If it wasn't, it would have been overrun easily within the last 2,000 years.

Unfortunately for them, there are a bunch of "secularitards" who are so caught up in their desires for destruction, and ignorance about the destruction they are desiring, that they keep on being "secularitards."

Dictation? Wow, you people are mental.  You listen to a dictation by your imaginary friend then you act on it.

Nice going.

Well, you were the one who talked about a dictator. What dictates your life? After all, everything you think, every decision you make, is controlled and dictated by cause and effect operating according to the laws of physics in the universe. How can you know this?

Try mentally causing a new car to pop into existence in your driveway. Try growing a new arm. You can't do it. Why not? All you are is a complex dictation. The complexity of you the dictation, has to do with a Being that understands all about spirit, soul and mind, as well as physical. There is a multitude of evidence regarding this, and no evidence to the opposite.

[CoinCube]

Wealth alone cannot account for Europe’s low birth rates
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/09/06/wealth-alone-cannot-account-for-europes-low-birth-rates

JULIAN ASSANGE, the founder of WikiLeaks and apparently an amateur demographer, is worried about Europe’s declining birth rate. In a recent tweet he posited that “Capitalism + atheism + feminism = sterility = migration”, and noted that the leaders of Britain, France, Germany and Italy are all childless.
...
Mr Assange’s tweet echoed sentiments expressed by RT (formerly Russia Today), a Kremlin-backed news organisation. Russian propagandists have long argued that the West’s declining fertility rate is evidence of its decline. A recent RT editorial claimed that “Europe has been committing protracted demographic suicide for several decades.”
...
Birth rates are indeed highly correlated with national income. But the fertility rates of many European countries are lower than would be expected if GDP per person were the only factor that mattered. Romania, for instance, has 1.5 births per adult woman. Based purely on its level of economic development, that figure would be expected to be around 2.1.
...
To try to distinguish the impact of each, The Economist tested their relationships with fertility rates across different countries. To measure religious observance, we used survey data from the Pew Research Centre, a think-tank. Levels of capitalism or feminism are harder to quantify, but an economic-liberty index produced by the Heritage Foundation, another think-tank, and a gender-equality index from the UN Development Programme may serve as proxies...Both gender equality and the share of population that is irreligious did seem to play a part.

[Astargath]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

I know it bothers you really hard but I was, when I was a kid I truly believed, why wouldn't I. When I needed proof god didn't give it to me so here we are. However the rules of the bible are still idiotic, examples above.

You simply didn't wait for God to show you, in His way. Faith in God is accepting Him even when He does His convincing in ways that you might not understand immediately. Perhaps, unlike most kids, you were of weak faith right from the beginning. Or else you were distracted by your own ideals, or something else.

Or I realized that the bible is full of shit like the passages quoted above. All the rituals and laws in the bible are extremely outdated and you wonder why would god even allow them ever. They were bad, cruel and immoral. An all knowing god needs you to sacrifice something for him? No he doesn't and he already knows what you think or what you are going to do all the time.

[CoinCube]

Why Sweden Is On The Fast-Track To National Suicide
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-30/why-sweden-fast-track-national-suicide

Firm in the belief they are representatives of the world’s ‘moral superpower,’ the Swedish people continue their dangerous flirtation with every new cultural experiment under the sun. Is this really ‘progressive’ politics, or is it the road to national ruin?


In Sweden, everything seems possible except for dissent; dissent from the ubiquitous social message that tells its citizens they must be tolerant of every new cultural fad – from getting micro-chipped under the skin to allowing four-year-olds to be indoctrinated in preschool with the newfangled concept of transgenderism.

Thousands of Swedes have already been implanted with tiny microchips, typically inserted in the left hand, that will allow them the ‘convenience’ of no longer fumbling around for their credit cards, identification, keys. Much of their personal information is stored on the chip, which is about the size of a piece of rice.

Amazingly, despite the potential for the government, corporations or other powerful entity to hack into these devices, that possibility never seems to enter Swedish discourse.

“Swedes have gone on to be very active in microchipping, with scant debate about issues surrounding its use, in a country keen on new technology and where the sharing of personal information is held up as a sign of a transparent society,” AFP notes.

Although the amount of data each chip can hold is currently limited, most technologies begin with humble origins before they eventually exert tremendous influence over their human ‘masters.’ The hand-held telephone is a great example. Beginning as a convenient method of communication, the ‘smart phone’ has now gone on to literally conquer the social and cultural domain. The next step may be the realm when, as predicted by former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, the “internet disappears.”

'There will be so many IP addresses...so many devices, sensors, things that you are wearing, things that you are interacting with that you won't even sense it,' he told an audience at the 2015 World Economic Forum in Davos.


Sweden, which has managed to avoid a major war for so long it may feel itself invincible, has willfully volunteered to serve as a guinea pig for the brave new technology, which many believe will herald in mankind’s total enslavement to the ‘system.’

Sweden’s cultural experimentation does not end with the microchip. In the realm of human behavior and sexuality it is also breaking down long-established barriers with its willingness to embrace the transgender movement.

First, full disclosure. My personal opinion on transgenderism (which in a nutshell says that the determination of an individual’s sex is based on an artificial ‘social construct’ and possible to change if only the individual wills it) is that it is largely a media-induced mass phenomenon, bordering on mass hysteria. After all, how is it possible that such a radical change in human behavior – which says that a man can be a woman (and vice-versa) so long as he “identifies” with that sex – when such a thing was absolutely unheard of less than a decade ago? Man has been evolving for millions of years and only today we hear about people being able to dream up a 'sexual identity'? The only explanation is that it was basically concocted out of the blue and pumped into the public realm on a daily basis until it was accepted as gospel. Which proves that the masses will happily assume any story as truth if it is repeated enough times.

In any case, as long as this new sexual identification (there are said to be over 60 different gender types today) remained confined to the realm of the adult world, and did not violate the rights of others (in the US during the Obama era, this was arguably not the case, as grown men who suddenly ‘identified’ as a woman, were legally permitted to use the women’s bathrooms and changing facilities, thereby posing a risk to women and children), then the phenomenon could be considered mostly innocuous.

But as with every new cultural curiosity that arises, Sweden has taken transgenderism to the extremes, to the point where it tolerates pre-schools approaching children as if they were ‘gender neutral’ freaks of nature.In this bizarre world of real-life make believe, Swedes have been addressing each other with the gender neutral pronoun “hen” since 2015.


Swedish schools also carry so-called ‘forward thinking’ books, like “Hästen & Husse,” which tells the story of a man who dresses up like a woman. His friend horse, apparently no less confused, is a “trans-species” that likes to run around the house imagining he is a dog.

With this sort of absolute insanity in the air, is it any wonder that the dazed and emasculated Swedish population allowed its government, nudged along by the financial clout of George Soros, to throw open the gates to scores of illegal Middle Eastern and African migrants, many of them escaping from NATO-led conflicts?    

Today, while Swedish schools are promoting gender neutral role models to their children, very male migrant gangs are making some parts of Sweden practically off limits to the general population. Paramedics and firefighters sometimes need police escorts before entering ‘vulnerable areas’, particularly in some neighborhoods of Malmo, Sweden’s third largest city.

As The Spectator reported, “the gang wars serve as a constant reminder of Sweden’s failed migration and integration policies. This is a problem for the government (and even the opposition) in a country that prides itself on being a ‘humanitarian superpower.’”

Despite the lawlessness on the streets, support for the far-right, anti-immigration Sweden Democrats party reportedly dropped to its lowest level since surging during the migration crisis of 2015.

In light of these seemingly unsustainable trends in this ‘progressive’ Nordic nation, one must ask the question: How long can the cultural experiments continue before the laboratory burns down?

[CoinCube]

Income is only one factor.  The education level is probably a more significant factor that affects the birth rates.

Humanity would be better off if the birth rates were just above or equal to the death rates, i.e. if the population growth would be close to zero.

Pollution, wars, depleting resources come to mind.  The global population should not be growing at 1%, it should be more like 0.001%.  It would give us enough time to develop technology to search for a new home, outside of Earth.  Population doubling every 70 years will make this much more difficult.

Educational level is definitely a big factor with a few exceptions. Some religious groups have been shown to have more children at higher educational levels but that is the exception rather then the rule.

Your population growth estimate of doubling every 70 years is much too high. Population growth is slowing around the globe.

World population projected to reach 9.8 billion in 2050, and 11.2 billion in 2100

https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2017.html

[fordharrison]

health and religion had always crossed together. im sure, that some diet traditions in many cultures were made through the huge experience of our ancetors and thats why it is helpful and healthy

[CoinCube]

UN has been consistently wrong about this.

It is not my estimate. It is math.

Global population growth rate oscillates between 1-2%.

Look up "doubling time" or "rule 72".

The rough formula for doubling time is:
70 divided by the growth rate.

If the global population growth rate stays at 1% the population will double in 70 years no matter what anybody thinks.

If the rate goes back up to 2%, the population will double in 35 years.

There is nothing to argue.  The only thing you can do is to try to estimate the growth rate.

Moving less educated people from less educated countries (Africa, Middle-East, Latin America where the average IQ is around 85 or lower) to more affluent countries will increase the global growth rate not decrease it.  

I think the global growth rate will stay above 1% for some time.  Unless some major diseases kick in and increase the death rates.

In one doubling time, there will be 1 person per 10,000 square meters.  In five doubling times, there will be 1 person per 625 square meters (~6700 sq ft) LOL.

You think humanity will survive five doubling times here on Earth?

PS. It looks like we are going to reach 8 billion in 2022-2023.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

I think human life on earth could survive three doubling times. Not sure about five.

I have been to India. The population density there is 382 per square kilometer. It is pretty crowded there already though they get by. Total population density of the world right now is about 55 per square kilometer (excluding Antarctica because that not really habitable with current technology). Three population doublings would take the population to about 60 billion and make the global population density about 440 per square kilometer 15% higher then that of India today.

That would be pretty crowded but I suspect technology, technological advances and human ingenuity could handle that much provided we cooperate and don't do anything too stupid. Even using your not so accurate projection of a population growth of 1% a year that is 210 year of technological progress to handle the growth.

Also your guess is likely to be wildly inaccurate. Population growth is likely to be far less than 1%. I am not an expert on the data but my understanding is that the UN estimates tend to error on the side of overestimating growth rates. Also worldwide fertility is plummeting and looks set to grow at far less than 1%.



Fertility of 2.1 is effectively 0% population growth due to accidental deaths. I fully expect the global fertility will continue to drop maybe even below 2.1. The primary driver of human reproduction the link between human reproductive activity and human procreation has been severed by contraceptive technology. The necessity of modern education increasingly consumes our prime reproductive years and this demand will only grow in the future. Children are no longer an economic boon but a great cost for parents so increasingly only those very interested in them will have them. Automated robots and learning algorithms will increasingly consume low level jobs so even those wanting large families may be unable to find the work to support them. See:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4359289.0

I am doubtful that we will see even a single population doubling from our current level.  

[Astargath]

UN has been consistently wrong about this.

It is not my estimate. It is math.

Global population growth rate oscillates between 1-2%.

Look up "doubling time" or "rule 72".

The rough formula for doubling time is:
70 divided by the growth rate.

If the global population growth rate stays at 1% the population will double in 70 years no matter what anybody thinks.

If the rate goes back up to 2%, the population will double in 35 years.

There is nothing to argue.  The only thing you can do is to try to estimate the growth rate.

Moving less educated people from less educated countries (Africa, Middle-East, Latin America where the average IQ is around 85 or lower) to more affluent countries will increase the global growth rate not decrease it.  

I think the global growth rate will stay above 1% for some time.  Unless some major diseases kick in and increase the death rates.

In one doubling time, there will be 1 person per 10,000 square meters.  In five doubling times, there will be 1 person per 625 square meters (~6700 sq ft) LOL.

You think humanity will survive five doubling times here on Earth?

PS. It looks like we are going to reach 8 billion in 2022-2023.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

I think human life on earth could survive three doubling times. Not sure about five.

I have been to India. The population density there is 382 per square kilometer. It is pretty crowded there already though they get by. Total population density of the world right now is about 55 per square kilometer (excluding Antarctica because that not really habitable with current technology). Three population doublings would take the population to about 60 billion and make the global population density about 440 per square kilometer 15% higher then that of India today.

That would be pretty crowded but I suspect technology, technological advances and human ingenuity could handle that much provided we cooperate and don't do anything too stupid. Even using your not so accurate projection of a population growth of 1% a year that is 210 year of technological progress to handle the growth.

Also your guess is likely to be wildly inaccurate. Population growth is likely to be far less than 1%. I am not an expert on the data but my understanding is that the UN estimates tend to error on the side of overestimating growth rates. Also worldwide fertility is plummeting and looks set to grow at far less than 1%.



Fertility of 2.1 is effectively 0% population growth due to accidental deaths. I fully expect the global fertility will continue to drop maybe even below 2.1. The primary driver of human reproduction the link between human reproductive activity and human procreation has been severed by contraceptive technology. The necessity of modern education increasingly consumes our prime reproductive years and this demand will only grow in the future. Children are no longer an economic boon but a great cost for parents so increasingly only those very interested in them will have them. Automated robots and learning algorithms will increasingly consume low level jobs so even those wanting large families may be unable to find the work to support them. See:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4359289.0

I am doubtful that we will see even a single population doubling from our current level.  

I think there no point arguing about estimates. We might get a nuclear war in 15 years or a global Islamic caliphate and all estimates will be blown in either direction.

Religiosity also is a factor. Ultra religious groups have substantially higher birth rates and there still millions if not billions of very religious people.

I am hoping sex education in high growth zones will reduce the global growth rate.

We will have to wait and see who's estimates will be closer to the real number.

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

[BADecker]

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

[Astargath]

Personally I will be going to Mars where hopefully we have no religion.

You'll be dead long before you get there... and more than likely even off the ground.

We will get there in 10-20 years, not thanks to god, thanks to science because as you can see science works, religion doesn't.