Ukyo.Loan
Given the absence of any cap on the unit price created by the threat of a forced buyback at face value, those who are willing to hold Ukyo.Loan at a price of .01 BTC per share for .05% daily yield relative to face value should, other things being equal, be willing to hold it at twice that price in return for twice the yield -- a price of .02 BTC per share for .1% daily yield relative to face value.
Have to say I disagree with this part of your analysis, largely because all other things are NOT equal. The first point to consider is that, if the price were to rise to somewhere near .02, then it's highly unlikely Ukyo has liquid assets to perform a buy-back based on that price. If he HAD liquid assets able to pay out over twice the face value of the loans then it's unlikely he'd have needed the loan in the first place. The second point to consider is that if he needs to do a buy-back then the first stage before that would be the shrinking of dividends to their guaranteed minimum which would, in any event, cause the price to fall back to current levels anyway. It's not hard for an asset issuer to cause a price drop by releasing bad news. The third point is that he is entirely capable of flooding the market in new bonds which, especially if couple with news that the dividend would likely only be the minimum going forward could guarantee the price collapsing back to near IPO. The fourth point is that if the price inflates then you immediately lose guaranteed liquidity at or near that price. And the fifth point (and the kicker) is the consideration of why would you pay .02 for something with liquidity only guaranteed (with a delay) at .01 when you could obtain higher expected returns (albeit with much higher variance) investing in J-D where the capital backing is obvious and liquidity at full price 'paid' is guaranteed. At .01 or slightly over Ukyo.loan is a good investment so long as you believe Ukyo has sufficient assets/is trustworthy (and most of us already use bitfunder so are fine with that). At .02 it would be absolutely horrible in both return and (especially) liquidity compared to alternatives. I agree with Deprived. The reason the price did not go up much when Ukyo was paying the higher dividend is that nobody knows when the dividend will change. There is no way to predict the future dividend amount, so people buy assuming that the dividend will usually be at the lowest possible value. |
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For every dollar that goes to BTC is a dollar the greedy banksters can't get their paws on.
Don't worry about them, they just print more when they need it. |
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Is there a name for 0.01 BTC?
It obv should have a name cause everyday transactions wont be measured in BTC but in 0.01 BTC
0.001 btc is referred to as a millibit and abbreviated mB. |
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That is a good question, how did Satoshi refer to these units? I beleive he was gone (or at least using a different name) by the time the term satoshi caught on for the smallest bitcoin units. |
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Does anybody know the history behind using the term "satoshi" as the atomic unit for bitcoins?
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In time, there will be local bitcoin exchanges available for every currency. The fact that these don't exist yet means there is still room for bitcoins to grow.
It benefits the individual so much more that companies will find it harder to adopt. Companies are made up of individuals. The same benefits that bitcoins provide to individuals (secure money, quick international transfers) can benefit companies as well.
There is a limit however to how useful bitcoin is, and those are the relative proportion of bitcoin to altcoins (once bitcoin was created, there was a limited 21M units, not anymore, each altcoin adds aditional similar* value units), and the smallest divisible unit (you can't split a satoshi up when you decide to pay 2 satoshi or 3 satoshi for a sheep, but the difference 30% makes is significant).
Currently 1 US cent is worth about 0.0001 BTC, few people would argue that a cent is significant, but that is the granularity allowed by USD. So we still have to go up four orders of magnitude in price before the USD and the bitcoin have the same price granularity. That would mean that if I bought one bitcoin today for about 100 USD, and waited for BTC and USD to have the same price granularity, I could sell that bitcoin for one million USD. And I would argue that you would need to go at least one more order of magnitude before price granularity is a problem, and that is for just the most inexpensive items. If you are going to buy a car using bitcoins, you could go even a couple magnitudes more than that before the granularity becomes a problem. Plus, it would be a very simple fork to add some more digits to the bitcoin protocol and give us another 8 digits to work with. |
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To better understand something, I want to ask a question:
Does chain has all transactions information? I thought that only producing the bitcoin transaction can be done. I can not imagine miners mining without producing any bitcoin and in the same time making transactions available. Award in mining comes as share of a bitcoin, is it?
So, finally, I can imagine how it can work if all bitcoin produced. I understand that it may take huge time (but it is also concern; it means transactions will take longer time also, as I understand), but still, we talking about situation when last bitcoin produced, not before that.
Yes, the blockchain contains the entire history of all bitcoin transactions. Once all the bitcoins are mined, miners will continue to be payed transaction fees (how many times do we have to repeat this?). Blocks will continue to be generated every 10 minutes. If people stop mining because the reward drops then the mining difficulty will adjust downward so the blocks will still be every 10 minutes. The block reward will never drop as much as it did last November, and it didn't seem like many people turned off their miners at the time, so I do not think there will be any point where enough of the network will suddenly turn off their miners to significantly slow the block generation before we get to another difficulty retargeting. So it will be like how today you get 7 blocks per hour, then we will get 5 blocks per hour for a while, it will not significantly affect the users of the network. |
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USD is converted into automatically with a 2% FX fee applied on payments. So for example a 10 USD bill would cost me 10 * USD/RON * 1.02. Some prices are shown in EUR, and paid in RON. Some bills, are weirdly displayed in RON, paid in EUR, but converted from RON, and the conversion fee applies just once, maybe the merchant pays the other side.
BTC would require something like 15 EUR SIPA fee per fiat deposit, or a 4% fee on localbitcoins.com for p2p exchanges. I don't know anyone in the city that exchanges BTC, except me and a work colleague.
There are no local currency exchanges that I can use, and using USD means I pay the FX fee. Currently I will have to pay 2-3% on top of the BTC price, there is no alternative. Ideally this should be around 1% which I wouldn't mind and which would be super-competitive with everything else.
Being a p2p decentralized open protocol and open access currency, I mine my own bitcoins and obtain sufficiently cheap bitcoins (or litecoins) at around 75% of mtgox's price, which I can use for expenses. So paying for things with bitcoin (VPS, hosting, domains, SSL certs, online storage, other services) would offer me a 25% discount. Paying for physical items is impractical as virtually nobody here accepts bitcoins, and paying for shipping cancels the advantage.
I hope my experience can answer your questions.
So the simple answer is that there just is no local currency exchange, and so to use bitcoins to pay for stuff locally you have to convert it first to USD and then use the same currency conversion you would use if you started with USD. In time, there will be local bitcoin exchanges available for every currency. The fact that these don't exist yet means there is still room for bitcoins to grow. |
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 Looking at the price graph, I say the price movements this year much more closely resemble the rise in 2012 than they do the rise in 2011. In 2011 the peak was followed by a downward slide. In 2012, the peak was followed by a nearly flat plateau. Now that we are a couple months past the peak in 2013, it looks like we are forming a plateau. I suspect we will never drop below 100 again. Since there was a larger rise this time than in 2012, there could be a much longer plateau before we start rising again. So we will start to see the price rising slowly over the next 6 months to a year, and the price will noticeably take off sometime in late 2014 or even 2015. |
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Would you ever put 125k usd in 1 btc? I don't think so....
And put all your money for 10 satoshi? Lol.
People are only investing what they can lose.
If you can lose 100 - 200 usd, you will spend them into bitcoin if you can buy 1 or 2 btc.
But if you can buy less than 1, you will feel disappointed, and probably won't spend your money there.
That makes no sense. If I have 100 USD available to invest, and I suspect bitcoins will go up another factor of 10, it does not matter what the current price is. If I look at the calendar and it is October 2010, then I buy 1000 BTC. If it is March 2011, then I buy 100 BTC. If it is August 2011 or November 2012, then I buy 10 BTC. If it is May 2013, then I buy 1 BTC. Sometime in the future, people who want to put some money into bitcoin will use their 100 USD to buy 0.1 BTC and they will be just as happy about getting a good deal on their purchase as the people in early 2011 were when they talked the seller down to 1. |
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- What is the utility of a dollar and a bitcoin now? I know it's 10% and 0% respectively for me, how about you?
please explain 10% and 0%? I can't buy anything with USD here. Should I try to use it, only way it might be possible is at an exchange office or paying my various internet service bills which are about 10% of my expenses. Everything else is in another currency. As for bitcoin, I can only spend less than 1% every month, because nobody and nothing here accepts it. Maybe a better comparison would be the exchange fee to convert them. How easy/expensive is it to get USD vs BTC into your native currency to spend on all your expenses? |
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So is there a way to get the google spreadsheet to update all the values?
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Also made one for Bitstamp price (for some reason this one only works if you don't have ['ticker'] before [assetData])
Looks like they have the last price, but not a daily average. Is there a site which provides a daily average, like bitcoincharts or something? |
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economist also say that in an efficient market, the value of something is equal to its marginal cost.
The marginal cost of a bitcoin is simply the electricity needed to run the miner divided by yield. Right now, that is about $2.42/bitcoin.
So you are saying you can get more bitcoins out of your miner if you just dump a bit more electricity into it? I was under the impression that miners all ran at pretty much the highest possible value? Or are you saying that if I spend $2.42 on equipment and electricity then I should be able to find a block sometime within the next 25 days? |
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Bump.
Seems pretty dead. I suppose there's not much speculation to be had on this loan.
It is just that it is trading in a very tight range (smaller bid-ask spread than the fee to buy and sell a share), so there is not much profit to be made from trading it. And there are other bonds which pay a higher daily rate, so nobody is going to buy up large amounts. |
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The Bitcoin exchange in Cyprus will be within the Cypriot law, This will offer traditional bank services (savings accounts, current accounts, electronic payment with a card). But all of this without the dangers of a haircut, without transaction limits inside and outside of Cyprus and lower transaction fees for electronic purchases.
Awesome that the local news already picked it up. I think they give a great rundown of the best reasons Cypriots would find this valuable. They say that any publicity is good publicity, but this is great publicity! |
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Maybe the market believes that there will be sufficient credit money built on top of the current bitcoin system for the current bitcoin money supply to sufficiently serve the needs of the future bitcoin users? That way, even as adoption and use of bitcoins grows, the current price could remain stable. In the end it depends on if bitcoins are used more to store value or as way to transfer value. If Bitcoins replace gold, then the monetary value of bitcoins will need to be high and the value of a single bitcoin will be 500k or something like that. On the other hand, if bitcoins are just replacing PayPal and Western Union then each bitcoin will not have to be worth much more than they are now, since you can reuse the bitcoin over and over, and if people use systems built on top of bitcoin that allow instant transfers (like how many webwallets allow instant transfer from one user to another of the same wallet system) the velocity of money can be very high.
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is there any faucet that gives you like 0.01 per day?
When I first got into bitcoins, the original bitcoin faucet gave me 0.05 btc, but it was just a one time gift, not a once per day thing. |
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im having a problem with BlockchainBalance, it was fine when i use example's btc address. =BlockchainBalance("18RATTTptdbmR4TgfK3HR9pswHgbmjp2hg")the cell return #ERROR! error: Argument too large: value (line 23, file "Code") I've fixed it by adding "&limit=0" to the url. There's a LOT of TX id on said address and I guess Google doesn't like pages of JSON data with thousands of lines. Just to be clear, we add the limit to the url in the BlockchainBalance function, like this? (this is somewhere around line 67) var r = fetchCached("http://blockchain.info/address/" + btcAddress + "?format=json&limit=0")
Seems to work for me now. |
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im having a problem with BlockchainBalance, it was fine when i use example's btc address. =BlockchainBalance("18RATTTptdbmR4TgfK3HR9pswHgbmjp2hg")the cell return #ERROR! error: Argument too large: value (line 23, file "Code") I got the same error for one of my addresses, but I used another address and it worked fine.  Should this be in project development instead of securities? |
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