Wenn ich an das Projekt und die Technik dahinter glauben würde, wäre ein temporärer Kurseinbruch (und damit die Möglichkeit für viele Leute billig einzusteigen oder aufzustocken) für mich sehr viel leichter in kauf zu nehmen, als die komplette Glaubwürdigkeit durch einen HardFork aufs Spiel zu setzen. Wäre ich ein Trader, der schnelles Geld mit DAO und ETH machen möchte, wär ich für den HardFork, ganz klar. Es muss jeder selber entscheiden aus welchem Blickwinkel er das ganze betrachtet. Somit ist es das einzig verfünftige technisch als auch moralisch den HF durchzuziehen. Quasi Alternativlos?  das der hf so schnell machbar war ist zu bewundern. aber wie er forciert wurde nicht. bailout bleibt bailout. was kommt als nächstes ? eine regierung ? ne erpressung? mit forderungung ? code soll nicht änderbar sein. nicht so. |
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question:
will there be only one cain ? or will there be a ETHC and a ETH?
and when will we know ?
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Im guessing its offical now?
Yobit is on the hackers chain.
Yobit Wallet status: Online (1920073 blocks)
Etherscan: block 1921187
The main chain is much lower than the alternative chain. 1921275 vs. 1920076. So it is better to be with the main chain. http://fork.ethstats.net/. but dosnt this show that there is a huge group not agreeing with the hf? |
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hmmm thats interesting :ethereum classic
Users
In order to remain on the original Ethereum chain, just don't upgrade to hardfork client version pushed by Ethereum Foundation. We will maintain non-fork versions of all major Ethereum clients (as well as other key software), so going forwards all the improvements will be available to you.
Fun fact. If you keep ETH under your direct control (not in a 3rd party wallet or exchange account), you will have two sets of coins instead of one post-fork. You could then install a forked Ethereum client in addition to Ethereum Classic, copy your private keys there and use your coins on both chains! You won't be so lucky if your ETH are locked with 3rd party going into the fork - some exchanges already announced that they will only return one type of coin post-fork to its users.
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Ahh nothing like beating a dead horse. Buy some mining hw if you disagree with the fork. And let's see who comes out on top. Then you will have your trial by jury(consensus) as to whether it was theft or not. But this argument is just dead in the water. Like with any banking system if you find an exploit and decide to pull 60$M out and think it's ok because of a loophole your grossly naive. Those in favor of the theft need a recalibration of your moral compass!
Best regards
D57heinz
the pity about this is thaat you think you have a moral compass becouse the masses agree with you. but there was no investigation and be honest are you so deep into the ether code that you can tell what was wrong and right ? so do we have a independent investigation? a report ? of what has happened ? or just a wishi washi reporting on social media mostly driven by the ones to loos the most ? and the retoric gosh are you realy so blind ? if that person is guilty then it shall be punished but not punish it befor a trail or a investigation thats called lynchjustic but if thats your moral well ......... Well I take it your in the camp of possession is 9/10 the law? It's obvious looking at the code and how it operated that this wasn't a usual run of the mill contract that drained the dao. There was ill intent by the person who did this. We can agree to disagree. As far as trial by jury well id say most that have a clue what's going on are the ones that voted already. Imagine trying to get some judge or jury to get up to speed lmao. Decentralized vote is the future. What's right and wrong throughout history has always been dictated by the masses am I wrong? Also I feel it should have never gotten over 100k at most for the first contract. Live and learn. Edit. I have only 20 eth(2k) in dao. I didn't invest more than I can afford to lose. Those that did I understand could use a hard lesson in investment strategy. I went in real deep on a cloud mining site in 2014. Ended up being a ponzi. Needless to say I learned my lesson. So I can see both sides of this argument Best regards D57heinz i think we are not to far apart . i see it like you that voting and consensus will replace some courts but to do it right the blockcain needs something like a report/investigation otherwise its lynchjustic . and i disagreee not the masses did lead what is right or wrong . it was always as small elite that did and does that. lobbying and so on. and yes the act of draining was wrong ethicaly but that person misused a lausy formed not smart contract. the waterloo desaster comes to mind. rothshild spread the romor napoleon won and sold then everyone followed and he did buy back with strohmen. well ethicaly it was not right but it was not illegal. and he got away with it. same situation is here with the attacker. i guess the hf will happen. hopefully they are very careful with the code and it gets smooth but what comes next? what if a big company wants a roll back ? a goverment? for such rollbacks there should be a realy strong set of ethical rules for the comunity becouse this hf is rather wild west manner then seriouse thought through decition |
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So we need some kind of law enforcers to investigate the "theft". Will somebody report to their local police?
lol right you got the dilemma lol but nontheless to take it back is not better in a moral point of view then taking it lol |
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I do not care about what other people think. If there is a theft, I will support to get the money back from thief.
gosh .... again the clue here is the little word if..... if means we dont know we asume!!!!! we need a investigation to find out who is responsible for the loseing of the money and the informations we get on social media is mostly send by people invested or insiders thats no independent information its such a pity |
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Ahh nothing like beating a dead horse. Buy some mining hw if you disagree with the fork. And let's see who comes out on top. Then you will have your trial by jury(consensus) as to whether it was theft or not. But this argument is just dead in the water. Like with any banking system if you find an exploit and decide to pull 60$M out and think it's ok because of a loophole your grossly naive. Those in favor of the theft need a recalibration of your moral compass!
Best regards
D57heinz
the pity about this is thaat you think you have a moral compass becouse the masses agree with you. but there was no investigation and be honest are you so deep into the ether code that you can tell what was wrong and right ? so do we have a independent investigation? a report ? of what has happened ? or just a wishi washi reporting on social media mostly driven by the ones to loos the most ? and the retoric gosh are you realy so blind ? if that person is guilty then it shall be punished but not punish it befor a trail or a investigation thats called lynchjustic but if thats your moral well ......... |
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The legalities in the cryptosphere is in the gray area at best. The attacker can argue that the exploit he did was all in the rules of the DAO and there that no theft took place. And in the side of Vitalik, they should have done a better job with the security audits. How can you store 150 million dollars worth of ether in the DAO and thinking that no one will try to attack it? That is very incompetent of them.
If there is a fault in any computer code and someone uses it to enrich themselves it is theft. That is right. For example, your house door is locked, somebody breaks into it, and claims it is legal because your lock is not strong enough. thats not correct in the daos case the door was not locked. it was wide open and there was so to say a sign "my home is your home" cops in my country call that a invitation the insurance wont pay |
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The legalities in the cryptosphere is in the gray area at best. The attacker can argue that the exploit he did was all in the rules of the DAO and there that no theft took place. And in the side of Vitalik, they should have done a better job with the security audits. How can you store 150 million dollars worth of ether in the DAO and thinking that no one will try to attack it? That is very incompetent of them.
If there is a fault in any computer code and someone uses it to enrich themselves it is theft. the question is will the "law"see it as a fault or just a code wanted like that. one would have to consider in the aftermaath of the dao relase. someone published the Bug and said it makes the dao vulnerable and none not slockit or devs of ether thought it important to fix it for weeks. a court could now ague it was ment to be therfor the so called attack was no crime or it was not ment to be and it was a crime but are then the ones who could have prevented it guilty too to a point ? big enough to get punished too ? and then the white hat attack ? whats with that same thing but different intention. this is so complex |
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The time is now very close and we will see it unfold one way or another.
And I don't mind being repetitive because I don't know if it has sunk in yet what can happen.
Because of the unique way things have happened most just don't get the ramifications of a theft like this occurring. There will be major continuous effects which will cause contagion because of the people and authorities that will be draw into it.
LAW IS LAW - Code is not the law - THEFT IS THEFT.
Ethereum simply will not exist if the theft will go ahead and is not stopped. People I think just aren't taking on board how ethereums future is hanging in the balance. Ethereum at the moment has become a casino bet red/black close to 50/50 odds as it may appear.
The fact that anyone can get the price on offer and cash out is just the other side of whether a fork will occur and ethereum will continue and most likely greatly prosper. Because without the definitive knowledge that a fork will occur the price should be leaning towards zero. All the efforts of the developers and all else will come to nothing.
It is quite surreal with the continuous going ons' in Etherium whether meet ups or considerations of things built on Ethereum and discussions of their future etc. It's all (castles in the air) as their future still hangs in the balance.
This is an out there unusual situation just because the way things developed over the course of dao creation and onward's.There were two major flaws in the dao, one being the obvious codeing problems the other being the lack of limitations within the creation phase. Because of this it is extending into Ethereum itself and because of this it will extend into the entire crypto world if not stopped.
It's just incredible to view the ridicules ideas some have about the law or is that blockchain law that exists only on computerland with their head so far up a computer they don't know whats what anymore or maybe they just didn't know whats what in the first place.
I am glad there are some out there that can articulate better than myself. - Jack du Rose -
"Any ideas about theDAO being outside of the scope of any jurisdiction are mistaken. Smart contracts are not smart, and they’re not contracts. Code is not law; law is law. Notions to the contrary are naive, no matter what it says on any website’s marketing copy.
If the stolen funds are not returned, Ethereum projects in general are in jeopardy. There will be complaints to the U.S. Security and Exchange Commission (SEC), who have jurisdiction all over the
world, so long as US citizens are affected. An investigation into theDAO will ensue, dragging Ethereum through the mud behind it.
If we demonstrate the ability to govern our own affairs responsibly, and the funds are recovered, no loss will have taken place. There will be far less merit to any complaint, which therefore reduces the likelihood of the SEC wasting scarce resources on complex overseas adventures."
LAW IS LAW
There is an added effect when legalities take hold on the entire crypto sphere which no one is even taking into consideration yet.
thats another good point but the question is will they be able to do a hf in such a short amount of time a secure one plus either way hf or not SEC will investigate becouse it does not matter for them if the insider fix it or not ? law is law ? at the moment one can say the code is the contract and following the lines of the code no crime was done. but if they roll it back what will the SEC say then? |
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ein großteil des volumens vom 17.6. bis eine wohe danach ist wohl auch dem dao desaster zuzuschreiben und der darausresultierenden etherflucht.
ich vermute wirkliche auswirkungen im preis sehen wir so ende des jahres.
Hätte deiner Theorie nach nicht der BTC preis steigen müssen (statt fallen von 7xx auf 65x)? Wenn alle ihre ETH gegen BTC verkaufen steigt doch der BTC Preis. hast recht ich hatte ja erwartet dass der btc preis vor dem halving steigt dann ist er aber wieder leicht gefallen und seit dem ether desaster schwebt er so um die 600 ich glaube nicht dass das halfing schon eingepreist ist Eher nicht, die die ausgecasht haben, haben womöglich BTC gekauft und dann gleich wieder in Fiat getauscht oder andere Alts (da sind einige durch die Decke gegangen). Daher auch die höheren Volumen und die höhere Volatilität. BTC lassen sich ja auch breiter in Fiat tauschen als ETH oder DAO. Ein Großteil diese Personen spekulierte da generell nur für den Profit statt auf ein längeres Interesse. Der "Hacker" hatte doch auch BTC gekauft, das hat vielleicht sogar einen größeren Einbruch beim BTC (durch die Flüchtenden) verhindert. Wer weiß das alles aber schon die vermutung hatte ich auch schon es hat sich ja sehr viel getan steem zb. da können die btc auch hingeflossen sein kommt mir grad vor wie im auge des tornados bevor es nochmal turbulent wird |
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ein großteil des volumens vom 17.6. bis eine wohe danach ist wohl auch dem dao desaster zuzuschreiben und der darausresultierenden etherflucht.
ich vermute wirkliche auswirkungen im preis sehen wir so ende des jahres.
Hätte deiner Theorie nach nicht der BTC preis steigen müssen (statt fallen von 7xx auf 65x)? Wenn alle ihre ETH gegen BTC verkaufen steigt doch der BTC Preis. hast recht ich hatte ja erwartet dass der btc preis vor dem halving steigt dann ist er aber wieder leicht gefallen und seit dem ether desaster schwebt er so um die 600 ich glaube nicht dass das halfing schon eingepreist ist |
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ein großteil des volumens vom 17.6. bis eine wohe danach ist wohl auch dem dao desaster zuzuschreiben und der darausresultierenden etherflucht.
ich vermute wirkliche auswirkungen im preis sehen wir so ende des jahres.
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Woah, ist der Kurs oede. Hoffentlich passiert bald mal was.
Volumen ist laut meiner app rekordverdächtig niedrig. ist das gut oder schlecht oder neutral? Welche Boerse? Oder insgesamt? Und wo kann man das einsehen? Mich wuerde naemlich interessieren, ob nach dem Halving das Volumen nachlaesst (als Folge der verringerten Inflation), oder ob sich nichts geaendert hat. Kann man vllt noch gar nicht sagen und das aktuelle geringe Volumen ist Teil der aktuellen Chartmuster. hier http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/ums halving herum war das volumen echt hoch so 200 millionen 24h also das 5fache von jetzt |
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@Mario241077
da steht was über den betreuungsstaat, und dass die ach so arme wirtschaft die lausigen faulen nichtsnutze aushalten muss.
die wirtschaft nutzt unser erbe die luft bodenschätze usw. und versucht immer aber auch immer steuern zu vermeiden.
sollen die doch mal löhne zahlen von denen man auch leben kann.
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