I guess this is where we are still in a wait and see mode. The US govt. seeks to control all and smash anything threatening its ability to dominate economically. Just look at the last 15 years as a small sample. Yes they have not begun targeting CampBX and exchanges directly, but I do feel this is their first step in attempting to halt or disrupt Bitcoin. This though, is getting slightly off topic and discussing politics here never produces a winner.
The DOJ doesn't do this stuff by piecemeal. They didn't shut down Megaupload.com one day. Freeze the banks another day. Arrest him another day. It happened all at once. MtGox is on a .com, they could seize that anytime they want. Japan is more buddy buddy with the USA then New Zealand is. If they wanted to go after Bitcoin, every Bitcoin .com would be gone. CampBX would be gone. Bitpay, BitInstant, would be shut down, banks seized. They've both American companies. The DOJ isn't after Bitcoin. It doesn't even make sense to go after them. Cryptocurrencies are here to stay. The genie is out of the bottle. They're better off tracking Bitcoin, keeping tabs on it, then pushing it further underground. Bitcoin isn't a threat to the USD. People are dreaming if they think it is. The DOJ will cut a deal with MtGox, let us have access to all the logs (website and transactions) and we'll leave you alone. Considering MtGox is telling people it will cost 25M to become legit in the USA (and they're planning to do it), they'll play very nice with the DOJ going forward. This whole event was actually good news. People leaving MtGox for other exchanges. The sooner that happens, the better. |
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MtGox being incompetent isn't news.
The US isn't going after Bitcoin. CampBX is also using Dwolla (the same way MtGox was) and they're fine. They were setup properly.
Bitcoin was never mentioned. They were exchanging "something" (cryptocurrency) for USD. Which they were not allowed to do. They were accepting huge amounts of money, and sending out huge amounts of money, but somehow claimed they were not a "money services" company. The DHS disagreed.
So MtGox are morons. They opened a company in the USA improperly, used it improperly, got in trouble. Numerous other companies in the USA are setup properly, and still use Dwolla / Bitcoins.
Gox fail, nothing more, nothing less. The domain is fine, the servers are fine, the bank accounts in Japan are fine. Their company in the USA was slapped down because of their own incompetence, it's not that big of a deal.
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It's a smart move. Avoid all the USA bullshit, it's not worth the trouble. People who want to still bet, very easily can. I'm sure someone will just post the betting addresses here. I'm sure someone will make a website that will scan the blockchain and show the results of bets.
The website isn't needed. And this protects them from any USA Govt bullshit. Less growth from users in the USA is a small tradeoff to avoid all the legal gambling BS.
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Been sleeping the last ours. I read already about Webmoney accepting BTC and SatoshiDice excluding US customers. Great thing. Anything significant else?
Webmoney also exclude US customers Which is good. The US can't do shit to them, they're a huge company, they're extremely popular, it's a huge boost for Bitcoin. The more non-US businesses we have dealing with Bitcoins the better. |
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BTW, bad news for Americans.
Great news for Americans holding Bitcoins however. It's the Russian version of Paypal, they've been in business since 1998, and they're huge (over 11 million users). Best news this month. |
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Image is everything and Bitcoin is losing that battle.
You've been here 3 weeks. Yesterday you informed us Bitcoin was illegal in almost every country. You've stopped quoting the Coinage Act of 1965? There's a reason your wife only let you buy 1.5 BTC, you're autistic and prone to wild flights of fancy. You think this bump in the road is bad? Of course you do, you've been here 3 weeks. This was nothing. My favorite Bitcoin growing pain was back in 2011 when Something Awful hacked the forum and trolled us with CosbyCoin. I suggest you slow down a little, stop educating us on how Bitcoin, Bitcoin PR, legal system, and life in general work. Take some notes, you'll learn a few things. Get back to us in a few months.     |
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What a piece of shit Mt Gox is. I really hope this guy goes to jail. In my life i have seen such an imcompetence. How many millions have been lost due to this guy inability to run this company.
He got the best Magic the Gathering cards, he just found one day that he was running a billion dollar company (or exchange to a billion dollar market). So instead of playing with mages and trolls cards he just started to play businessman being absolutely horrible at it and making thousands of savers lose their hard earned money.
Why don't you open an exchange? Let's see if you can do better. To date, no one has done better. Lots have done better. That's like saying, go make your own Facebook. Well FB has 400 million members, even if your site is better that doesn't mean you'll overtake a monopoly. By most definitions MtGox did/does have a monopoly. When liquidity matters, it's hard to overcome that starting out. Over time better exchanges will come, and MtGox will lose it's market share. It's an awful POS trade engine, limited features, poorly run, unreliable and insecure. |
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huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse? |
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Yes, but I hope they don't. The law may be the law, and Mt Gox can improve, but he doesn't deserve to be arrested for this.
Definitely not. Something like this should never lead to jail time. They are registered for their main business so it's obviously just an oversight. I bet a hefty fine is all that will be levied. I do remember the heavy handed way the Feds dealt with the online poker companies though. Hopefully this isn't that kind of ridiculous overreaction. No one will go to jail. Big banks get caught laundering money for drug cartels and just get a fine. BOA gets caught screwing people out of their homes, they get a fine. The US Govt much prefers money then a trial. |
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After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine. Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected. Even better news, it had nothing to do with Bitcoin. They were exchanging "something" for USD. It doesn't matter what. They were not properly registered as a money services company. MtGox is incompetent. The US Govt isn't after Bitcoin. CoinLab probably told on them, and they got in trouble for fucking up their MSB registration. In terms of Bitcoin, pretty much a non-story. MtGox is a joke, that we already knew. They'll probably pay a fine and re-submit the proper forms. Might be costly, but hey they have 50-100M of our fiat they can pay the fine I'm sure.  |
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How does Gox need a US license to transfer money when they are in Japan.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
They need an American license when doing business with Americans in America. So in prosecuting MtGox for not having a money changing license, is there a legal precedent being set here that Bitcoin fits the government's definition of "money" ? It has nothing to do with Bitcoin. He was exchanging SOMETHING for USD. CampBX by all reports is properly licensed. Their Dwolla is working just fine. As usual, MtGox is incompetent. It could have been easily avoided, and this is yet another example why people should focus on moving to a different exchange that's actually run by people with a clue. |
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I don't have enough knowledge, but could it be that this "Money Services Business (MSB) Accounts, Identification of an MSB Customer" filled by Gox 2011 lost his legitimation or correctness after the recent FinCEN guidelines? I'm not even sure, if they define BTC as currency. Would love to hear some more details, if relevant.
It sounds like a lawyer fail on MtGox's part. The DHS knows about CampBX, they do the same thing (also through Dwolla). If this is all because they didn't properly setup/register the LLC, it's even less of a big deal then anyone could have expected. They'll probably pay a fine and pay some lawyers to set things up properly. Clearly the DHS isn't after Bitcoin or trying to shut down MtGox. The company MtGox setup in the USA was poorly planned/executed and got them in hot water. I'd imagine this gets resolved within a few months. |
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People who are being so super bullish despite the US Government telegraphing their intention to do something about Bitcoin should strongly consider protecting their stack. If shit really goes down, it will be a real $110 to $70 drop and you may never see the buying pressure return. Shit gets real at this point in BTC's evolution.
If they wanted to destroy Bitcoin, CampBX would be down. Dwolla payments to CampBX would be down. And MtGox's assets in Japan would also probably be frozen. Check out the previous cases of poker and Kim Dotcom. If they wanted to shut down MtGox, www.mtgox.com would look like this  Since they can shut the site down whenever they want (joys of being a .com), and they haven't, that's generally good news. Crypto currencies are here to stay. The US Govt is better served by tracking the Bitcoin exchanges, instead of pushing them further off the radar. MtGox likely wasn't playing nice and ignored DHS, so they slapped them around a little. If MtGox gives them all the logs (transactions, ips, account info) they'd use it to track people on their watchlists and let MtGox exist. It's probably easier to track wires then Dwolla, so they're forcing people to use wires to deal with MtGox. There's still a lot of unknown, but overall if it's just some KYC/AML requirement issues (re: letting the govt spy) its fairly minor. |
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This is the chart I've been waiting to see. To me, new highs aren't really that important, I mostly have been waiting to see the new bottom. It's provided us with this third critical data point for growth rate, which gives us a better idea of bitcoin's trajectory. I like what it shows.
Agreed. Looks like $100 is the new $50. Lots of buying pressure the closer it got to $100. Without the Gox drama (I hope people leave that exchange in droves), we'd probably be at $125-$130. |
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And yet you try to convey this image of being a good person. You bring up your wife and how you talk about those crazies on the forum. Hello... you are sort of one of them in many of our eyes. And again, it is because of this in-genuine odor you give off. Many won't bring it up to you for you on probably on ignore. Anyway, I don't dislike you, I just don't have respect for you method of manipulation and manipulation in general. If you question what many of us see in you, just re-read the posts, I did, and it is clear what you are. A smile is only skin deep. Give it a rest and be what you are... that is genuine.
Remember, It's about sharing...
It's greed. They are so greedy, they will come on the forum spamming bullshit trying to sucker people into selling. He actually posted that he figured out Bitcoin was ILLEGAL to use in "most countries". *lol* Funny how he just had that realization after a crash, when he admits he's hoping the price drops, says he'll buy back in when it does. As soon as someone points out he's being ridiculous, he moves onto another negative talking point. When people sell all their BTC, they come here and scream the sky is falling. When they buy BTC, it's Mister Bull in the house. I call it like I see it, he's spreading FUD, plain and simple. He's that greedy, he wants the market to drop that badly, he'll sit here for hours making stuff up. And if you check his quotes I re-posted, he is making stuff up. |
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Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.
And here comes the name calling. Ah...yes. The height of supreme intelligence.  Not sure how wanting the price to drop makes me a bad person and certainly warrants being called names. I guess you'd prefer there was a Bull section and a Bear section so you wouldn't have to read any posts contrary to your beliefs and opinions? Segregationist? Wanting the price to drop? You're trying to make the price drop by spreading FUD. You're pulling shit out of your ass that has no basis in reality, you're scrambling for negative talking points, and as I said before, you're clearly autistic. Since you're in denial, here's a quick recap. -The only reason the prices have reached +100...is because of speculative greed. Nothing more, nothing less.
-Definitely not over. It's just beginning. Interesting to see how many coins the manipulators, who are trying to prop things up, are willing to lose.
-Using Homeland Secuity, also means the U.S. could theoretically have a drone hovering over MtGox by morning.
-Momentum is too strong. Double digits...here we come. Buckle up!
-You'll see sub 100 in the next couple hours or so. Maybe less. Especially as people who don't sit and watch this forum or the markets get home and realize they are losing big $$$ and are caught in a firestorm.
-I think it's a virtual currency and I've been tell ya'll this was going to happen but you're blinded by ideology
-The biggest piece most of you fail to see and even I didn't see this coming, was they used Homeland security, NOT, the Justice Dept. Homeland security has all kinds of freedoms to do whatever they want in the name of "fighting terror." This is really bad...
-This is a STATEMENT from the US Government to Bitcoin. My advice being a US citizen and knowing the reach of the USG...Sell NOW or forever hold your piece. This is going to get worse as the news reaches mainstream media. By then, it will be too late.
-Coinage Act of 1965, Section 102 states: “All coins and currencies of the United States (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banking associations), regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties, and dues.” Only United States currencies (including Federal Reserve Notes) are currently legal tender in the US. Keyword being LEGAL tender.
-If you're not paying taxes on those transactions, it's illegal. That's cut and dry.
-that means you have to define BTC as an actual currency and using an alternate currency is against the law in the US.
-sending anonymous payments to anonymous users, tax free, and/or using an alternate currency within those borders is absolutely a violation of law.
-All they have to do is block the flow of fiat in and out, and BTC's becomes worthless. How some people are waking up trying to hold on to these delusions is simply amazing. I call it denial.
-I hope DHS rains fire in the morning. Cheap coins for all!
-a business can not accept a foriegn currency. It can only deal in US legal tender. It's not illegal to possess them, but to spend them in the US, on US goods and services is a clear violation of US policy.
My favorite was when you brought up the Coinage Act of 1965. We get it, you're waiting to buy back in. You don't have to spam the forum going all negative nancy. You want cheap coins, that's cool. Bitcoin is going to crash, we get it. Kindly STFU now. |
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Stop feeling the troll. Coinseeker is a retard. He's hoping the market goes down so he can buy back in. He's fourkey2001 2.0. Just click ignore, stop quoting him if you do reply, and move on. Pointing out he's wrong just makes he move onto some new FUD.
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Maybe is just a continuation of the limitations in United States against online gambling
I thought the more interesting line was "confirmed to CNET that the feds had initiated legal action to halt Dwolla processing Bitcoin transactions". Which should include campbx? Are they trying to halt Bitcoin or MtGox? Hopefully the latter. |
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AFAIK international wires are working fine.
AFAIK, meaning before the DHS court order on Dwolla? Why on earth would you block Dwolla, and let MtGox use wire transfers headed to or from the USA? You can easily block those. If you're going to block Dwolla, it makes sense you'd also block wires. Otherwise what's the point? People will just use wires, what have you really accomplished? I certainly wouldn't send or request a wire to or from MtGox. I'd let someone else test that. You can just convert everything to coins, move it off MtGox, and get your money from another exchange. Why even risk it? The DHS is after MtGox, it makes sense to avoid the drama and just use another exchange. |
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DHS? And we're out.
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