https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2767830.msg28282146#msg28282146The answer can be found here. No one actually knows. Mining was good last year because bitcoin price rocket. If that happens again, then great. If that doesnt happen, then profitability will be impacted greatly. U dont need optic internet. These things use like 2 mb per hour or something, go google. It is low. The issue would be wat price u can get the miners, and the rest is up to bitcoin price and difficulty increases. In general, they dont have to give discounts because the demand is enough. Also, u dont have that much time to assess since 80% of bitcoins have been mined and the next halving for ltc/btc is late 2019/2020 if i recall right. This things wont wait for u. If u gonna assess and then spend a few more months building, well time is money.
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I guess the only risk if is a sudden breakthrough occurs for the 7nm chips. Otherwise, it should take some time.
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In general, cartel's only work when there is no good substitute for a product that folks need or want. For most of the world, Bitcoin isn't an actual factor in their lives. If the entire Bitcoin industry evaporated overnight, the overall effect on the world would me minuscule. OPEC was able to control a product for which there was no viable substitute, at that time. Fast forward some 45 years, and you find that OPEC doesn't have nearly the control they once did.
I realize that for some folks on these forums, Bitcoin is their livelihood, but they have to realize that their "product" (i.e. mining) is more akin to a commodity (lots of alternatives), or possible a luxury good (i.e. the FOMO crowd).
I wonder if there was ever a thought given to a "Tulip growers cartel" back a few hundred years ago?
Yes, bitcoin is not essential in people's lives. But that doesnt matter here..... Cartels will work here because there are only 3 major manufacturers. Limiting supply via a cartel would mean controlling difficulty and thus, profitability for miners. |
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U very sure minimum is 100k? And that 5 thousand coins per 1 million is per month? |
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Hey guys a small question i ordered 6 antminers s9 in the last batch sold i paid using a wire transfer from USA did everything perfect, selected pay all fees, my order status now is PAYING and VALID also it shows what they recieved it shows i sent 14447$ and they recieved 14442$ not my fault since i paid my fees on my side. Am i in the clear? or do i need to pay those 5$ for them to change my order to paid?
PD: First time ordering from bitmain
open a ticket, they give you a bitcoin address to pay the difference. or have a new wire. If you do not pay, do not send, Damnnnn paying 45$ for a 5$ wire that sucks i guess im gonna do it just in case Why not juz use bitcoincash. Transaction cost for me was a few cents and in like 10mins lol. Pretty good yes |
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BTC mining difficulty will keep skyrocketing. Mining at home will be hard to get back your BTC investment on miners starting this year. If BTC fiat price goes through the roof like in 2017, mining makes (a lot of) profit in terms of fiat. My two cents: BTC mining has become arm race among big mining farms with nearly free electricity, and individuals hold your BTC.
There is no such thing as free electricity though. The thing is bitcoin mining is small compared to other industries. If big companies juz come in with abit more capital, it is possible for mining to be u profitable even for everyone, even with free electricity. News sources have added too much hype and interest into mining. For big miners, wouldnt it be in their best interest to make 300 dollars per machine rather than 50-100 dollars per machine?? There will make alot more. Thus, bitmain/canaan avalon/ebit should sit down and talk about how to not release too many machines (limit supply), rather than all 3 release so many that everyone earns alot less....including bitmain/canaan/ebit who are big miners themselves yes. They need to come together and make a cartel, like how OPEC did in the oil industry to control profits....and i hope they dont forget the to sell to the small miners too. In any case, I dont see how it can work out if they keep attracting more companies to come in. Btc mining has a low barrier to entry and almost every company out there can do it if they want to. I hope to be wrong though. It might be best that they create a btc mining cartel. Just my 2 cents |
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Mining is still profitable even in my country where the cost of electricity is one of the highest in the world. The operation can easily be converted into an internet and gaming cafe.
For now, after a recent spike of btc price, of course. That doesnt sou d right because u need miners to be in an industrial place due to sound and a cafe at a retail place where there are customers. |
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In 2017, btc rose from 1k to about 20k, about 20 times. Mining difficulty rose alot.
This year, avalon and ebit will release newer stronger models for btc. Bitmain still sells S9 as normal.
Thus, we should expect mining difficulty to increase abit more than usual due to the stronger models.
That being said, it is very unlikely that bitcoin will rise 20 times this year again but it is likely that the machines will still be sold by manufacurers for profit.
Thus, btc mining might turn unprpfitable later in the year or give very low profit.....kinda like the D3 and kinda like wat happen to OIL prices when shale oil producers pumped out too much oil.
As a miner, I really hope to be wrong. What do u guys think?
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Agreed. It wont make sense as it will pull in rain water or cause possible condensation.
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Accordin to bt898, innosilicon says they do not know halong and they said the pic was their unit. There is no point targetting me as I am only a small fry consumer. I am juz curious and I dont have anything against anyone. If this miner turns out to be real, I hope halong dont hold it against me, although I am skeptical at the moment. The way we get info, it is difficult to not be skeptical.
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The obelisk miner is real? It only cost 1.65k and can make over 10k a month is odd. Any1 actually ordered and ran one before.
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Been available now for two days. I have also seen that they have now added a wire transfer option. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. So, is possible to order for some time now. I guess they are reading this thread. |
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He has posted more information regarding his dealings with Halong on the other thread. You can find it by clicking on his profile and going to his only other post.
Keep in mind these are his only 2 posts, and if everything is true, it's nice to try and help everyone out by being transparent.
Either way this whole product scenario has my spidey senses tingling, and until they get out the batches they have taken pre orders for I wouldn't touch it with someone else's 10 foot pole.
EDIT: Sorry misread didn't realize that his first post was in this thread. If there is new information it would be great to see it.
Ahh I juz saw it. So, my initial guess was correct? ...that there are no real units. That explains why the miner was out of stock but they could somehow get more units if u were to order 1000 or more units. They want to take in as much as possible but not have too many people complain. That also explains the 5 units minimum. Hmmmmm |
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FYI Real or not  It is kinda coincidental. When did they spent the time to research this? Bitmain juz released A3 yesterday. Antminer A3 is at 815 GHz for 1275Watts. Baikal Giant B is 80 Ghz for 300watts.... For 1200 watts, it does 320 Ghz only They do 3,500 GHZ for 1000watts?? Thats 4,200 GHZ for 1200 watts.... about 5 times better than bitmain and 13 times better than Baikal giant B? Did I get the numbers right? Are they doing this out of spite for bitmain?? No offense but it does not sound believable that it suddenly exists. Also, if i read this right https://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/blakecoin-mining-calculator/?h=3150000&p=1000&pc=0.1&pf=0.00&d=83525.89964994&r=25.03564214&er=0.00001039&btcer=11762.66000000&hc=0.003.15 TH at 1000watts at 10 USD cents electricity would give them 2,300 usd profit a day!!! Of course, adding miners these would increase difficulty but it is still really good. There is no point selling these miners when they give near 70k usd a month.... |
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Nice chart. Well, the newspapers wont write this as they need to sensationalize stuff. |
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Guys,
Do you think that with the price collapse now, Bitcoin (or Bitcoin Cash) mining difficulty will be corrected downwards too? I guess some people will switch their miners off, or I am wrong?
Of course the difficulty will correct following the price. Always has, likely always will. That's how bigger miners remain profitable. Even if the profitability drops, keep mining anyway. It means you're getting coins on the cheap for when the price eventually - whether it be a month, or a year - bounces back to new all time highs. The last time we saw a big crash like this - especially if it keeps dropping over the next few weeks - was 2013. It took years for the price to bounce back to what it is today, but when everyone was crying "bitcoin is dead" when it was $275, we kept mining and kept holding our coins, because we knew that one day the price would bounce back to new all time highs. This game takes balls of steel to play. Actually, why would difficulty drop? Electricity cost difference issue between some home miners and some bitcoin miners. Is it high rental cost? Or having to be locked in a rental contract for 2 years? Having to pay rent when u cant run your machines is sad. But if it drops historically, and it drops later, then great. I guess for some people, it is not worth running it for tiny profit. |
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If you take a look at the historical BTC/USD charts you will see that January was always a bumpy month in the last few years. Price used to start increasing around mid/late February, but sometimes in only in March.
I dont believe historical months matters much here because we dont have a 10-50 year history of bitcoin. Bitcoin has been around for a decade but it was mostly in play only in 2017. There isnt much tradin data to go by. |
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Past history doesnt mean future will always be the same. In things like btc, there is no certainty. Pls use money u can only afford to lose
I suspect it will recover but no 100%.
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This is a very bad idea. Reliability and safety is more important.
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So what you saying is you wouldn't recommend people mining in 2018? I was getting interested in this idea but I'm seriously doubting this now since it looks like it became such a boom, everyone started mining in 2017 and probably it won't be as profitable as last year
Don't listen to them. There is no better investment than mining. Tell me where else can you invest ANY amount of money and expect ROI in less than a year ? That is just insane. Of course if you are one of those little kids expecting ROI in 2 months then do something else Mining itself is not profitable of late as in the inception of bitcoins. I wonder why individuals still invest in such hardware which comes with a huge cost of electricity and pool fees.
I am (was until today) making close to $800/mo w an S9. Electrical ran about $257 so I still netted a profit. Check the calculator. It is not 800 a month now buddy So ? It will be a lot more than 800$ in a few weeks. And even for 500$ that is ROI in 3-4 months which is still great. Even if u mine with free electricity, u wont get 800usd per month now. Go check the calculator. And check out the bitcoin difficulty chart and how it increases. In general, bitcoin price rose 14 TIMES in 2017. Bitcoin difficulty rose so much. That is why mining is still good profit now. So, in general, if it is to be the same, we need bitcoin price to rise 14 TIMES this year for the same profitability to be maintained, yes? U see that happening? If btc rise 14 times every year, it is gonna be 280billion mkt cap by end of the year. Cryto total mkt cap will be around 7 trillion, above gold 6 trillion mkt cap. And by next year, btc mkt cap will be 280billion times 14, around 4 trliion...juz not happening I would think. Buying from manufacturers is still ok although the returns are lower and risks are higher now... but ebay prices...are crazy high |
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