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801  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: March 21, 2012, 12:41:17 PM
http://www.mittrchinese.com/single.php?p=182636

Translated from English. The original article is claimed to be found in Technology Review.
802  Economy / Securities / μ - Bitcoin Venture Capital (Collecting Shareholders Data) on: March 21, 2012, 10:48:27 AM
I'm relatively active between 1:00AM to 3:00PM of forum time each day. Contacting me within this time interval could get quicker responses.

Announcement
In case of the possibility we could not receive the shareholders data, we begin collecting the claims ourselves.

Please send to (fnnirvana@gmail.com) your number of shares and your Bitcoin address for receiving dividends. Please annotate that they are MU shares to avoid confusion with ASICMINER or MOORE shares. You could accompany them with any evidence you think is OK to provide. It is highly recommended that you use an address that you have its private key. By that, you may enjoy more facilities provided by our future automatic migrating platform.

Happy investing! Best luck to you and ourselves. Smiley

What we do and how we are different
As we grow larger, we are probably getting many new and potential investors who don't have the time to study our history data of financial disclosure, our structure or policies. Here we explain μ with a shorter and clearer manner.

The business of μ contains:
1. investment on valuable new stocks and bonds.
2. market making.
3. arbitraging.
4. value investment on old existing assets.
5. providing loans.
6. funding startups outside the GLBSE system.
Now we are only doing 1-4. We may do 5 and 6 in the future, but we will be extremely careful and make sure that the involved risks are rigidly controlled.

What makes μ different:
1. We are a stock, not a bond. Which means that:
    (1) you can vote if you are one of the shareholders.
    (2) you actually own your portion of μ's net asset value.
    (3) you can give us public or private suggestions, which will possibly be accepted by the CEO and turned into motions.
2. Each of our mid-time or long-time positions was and will ever be assets with a business model that is sound, public, and easy to understand. We may participate in high-risk assets, but only for arbitraging, and we will keep the time of holding them as short as possible.
3. Our name is the shortest of all. Cheesy

Weekly Financial Disclosure and Market Watch
March 28th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg822256#msg822256
  Investment Opportunity Study: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg823936#msg823936
April 4th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg836060#msg836060
  Investment Opportunity Study: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg836105#msg836105
April 11st
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg845965#msg845965
April 18th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg856501#msg856501
April 25th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg867599#msg867599
  The MU Index for GLBSE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg867695#msg867695
May 2nd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg878181#msg878181
May 4th
  The MU Index for GLBSE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg882018#msg882018
May 9th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg889439#msg889439
May 13rd
  The MU Index for GLBSE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg897676#msg897676
May 16th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg902960#msg902960
May 23rd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg915987#msg915987
May 25th
  The MU Index for GLBSE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg920938#msg920938
May 30th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg929873#msg929873
June 6th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg944067#msg944067
June 13rd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg959191#msg959191
June 20th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg976412#msg976412
June 27th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg993086#msg993086
July 4th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1007353#msg1007353
July 11st
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1022545#msg1022545
July 18th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1037730#msg1037730
July 25th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1037730#msg1037730
August 1st
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1069580#msg1069580
August 8th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1085299#msg1085299
August 15th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1100792#msg1100792
August 22nd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1122148#msg1122148
August 29th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1141655#msg1141655
September 5th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1161925#msg1161925
September 12nd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1183811#msg1183811
September 19th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1202813#msg1202813
September 26th
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1221658#msg1221658
October 3rd
  Financial Disclosure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg1241274#msg1241274
Reserved

FAQ
Q: What is μ?
A: μ is a GLBSE-listed company which mainly focuses on the following businesses:
   1. We will evaluate each new company on GLBSE, and hold some part or all of its assets if we are convinced to. We may also directly fund private companies outside the GLBSE system. We make profits from the dividends of the assets we own, and(or) by selling the assets after their value increases. We can as well influence or control the policies of the target companies, if their policies are motion-based.
   2. We will provide short-term loans when we have spare funds and could not find enough appropriate assets to buy.
   3. We will hold some non-IPO assets if we believe that they are undervalued.

Q: How could I invest in it?
A: It is listed on GLBSE. The asset id is "MU".

Q: Why do you choose such a weird name?
A: It is inspired by Y Combinator.(http://ycombinator.com/) Basically, in Programming Language Theory, while the Y combinator is used for building recursive functions(terms), the μ operator is used for constructing recursive types. We are "recursive" in a sense that we are ourselves a startup company, which grows other startup companies, some of which might further grow more startup companies...

Q: Will I get scammed?
A: μ itself is not a scam. But considering the nature of our business, we may be scammed by our borrowers and other companies. Therefore, a more accurate question should be like "What are the risks?"

Q: So what are the risks?
A: 1. No matter how careful we are, we cannot totally exclude the possibility that the assets we buy are issued by a scammer.
    2. The assets we buy may not be as profitable as we think. Their value may even decrease after the IPO stage.
    3. The borrowers may not be able to pay our Bitcoins back.
    4. The profits of our company may not be as stable as those of mining companies, and so are the dividends.
    5. Our evaluation of "undervalued assets" may be wrong.
    6. If the price of Bitcoin drops dramatically, you may not be able to get enough compensation from selling hardwares as mining companies do.

Q: Given so many risks, what could I expect from μ?
A: We are probably the most ambitious startup in GLBSE so far. If bad things do not happen, by investing in μ you will:
   1. Enjoy the fruit of our dramatic growth. We will continuously use some of our incomes to fund more and more startups. The dividends are expected to grow exponentially for a considerable time before slowing down. It is even possible that the McDonalds or Facebook of Bitcoin will be funded by us in the near future!
   2. Save your precious time and energy. You do not need to seek or evaluate investment opportunities yourself. We will constantly track the price of the assets we hold and sell them when necessary. We will contact, inquiry, and negotiate with new IPO issuers. We will also do other tedious but necessary work.

Q: How could you persuade me that you could make right judgments and good investments?
A: Unfortunately we couldn't. We can only assure you that we have enough incentive(our own shares and fees) for that. We will do very serious investigation before using our funds, and will raise motions when making critical investment choices.

Q: How do you create shares?
A: 10,000 shares will be created. Each one will be sold at the price of 0.1BTC. We will buy some of the shares ourselves, but no more than 10%. More shares may be created and sold in the future, but only after a motion with 75% of the votes or more to agree.

Q: How do you pay me dividends?
A: As soon as a single share is sold, we will start to pay dividends.
    35% of the profits will be paid to shareholders each Wednesday.
    60% will be reserved for future expansion.
    We will take 5% ourselves as operating fee. This part may be used for expansion of the company too, but not necessarily so.
    The ratio is subject to change, but only after a motion with 75% of the votes or more to agree.
    The profits include all dividends we receive, the net gains of selling existing assets, and the interest paid by our borrowers.

Q: 1000BTC is not a very small amount of money. Do we really have enough qualified companies to invest in, at this moment?
A: Probably not. But we probably will not be able to sell all our shares very quickly either. Remember, our approach is rather incremental: as said in the last Q&A, we will start our business immediately after the first single share is sold. As we wait for new IPOs to hunt, our investors might also be waiting too. Our fundraising will be completed only when we could see some first-stage success.

Q: What information are you willing to disclose?
A: We plan to disclose the following information each week:
   1. Our available funds.
   2. Our weekly incomes.
   3. The assets we hold, including their initial price, the number, and their last dividends paid.
   4. The loans we make, including the volume, the interest rate, and the repayment date.
   5. The results of motions.

Q: What will happen before the company ceases to exist?
A: In very unfortunate conditions, μ might be liquidated. We will collect all debts and sell all assets we hold, then use the Bitcoins we make in this process as the total price to buy all the shares back.

Q: In what kind of circumstances a motion will be raised?
A: 1. Before the creation of new shares.
    2. Before changing the ratio of profits as dividends.
    3. Before a major buying or selling of assets.(For example, buying more than 50% of an IPO stock)
    4. Before making a loan.
    5. Before μ's liquidation.

Q: I want to create a startup company. What should I do to get your help and how could you help me?
A: We strongly suggest you to announce your company on this forum, list it on GLBSE, and provide the details as much as you can. In short, you should pretend that we do not exist at all. If you can get the approval of the public, you may be able to attract us. We can help you shorten your IPO cycle by buying up a large portion or all of your shares at once. We also give you free advice.
   If you do not want to make your company public for some reason, we could discuss our investment privately. However, this is a much harder way to gain our trust.

Q: Who are "we" in this FAQ?
A: Currently it's just me. I'm a Chinese Bitcoin user and live in Suzhou, China.

Q: Your name is freaking me out. Why do you have to use an id like this?
A: It has nothing to do with cats-cooking. Although in some East Asian countries quite a few people include cats or dogs in their diet, I am myself sick of the idea of eating cats or dogs.  "friedcat" is just my nickname, and it has lasted for many years. I used it for signing up many other websites.

Updates before the first round IPO
Thoughts on the first-stage business: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg814084#msg814084
Example about how our dividends are calculated: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg815227#msg815227
Materials are sent for identity verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg815670#msg815670
Some missed investment opportunities: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg816924#msg816924
Numeric estimate about our growth: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg816991#msg816991
News of March 25th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg818568#msg818568
News of March 26th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg819814#msg819814
News of March 27th: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70592.msg821738#msg821738

Extra Words
Any questions and advice are appreciated. We are very glad to hear from you. Smiley
803  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: bitcoinica's fraud actions on: March 17, 2012, 06:40:31 AM
by now I have 6 customers who are dissatisfied with bitcoinica.
And don't forget, this forum is not bitcoin, this is not anonymous, dont be stupid, think before write.



Nice! resorting to implied legal threats against us for mocking you?

It's not illegal for us to disagree with you, and I don't care if you know my identity or not. I don't care how many people you have lined up who dislike bitcoinica; some may have legitimate concerns, but the arguments you've given so far do not indicate that you do.

As far as I'm concerned, you're someone who did something stupid, got burned for it, and are now trying to compensate for your stupidity by suing someone who you are unable to prove did anything wrong. People were remarking on how stupid it was before you got screwed, and people laughed at you after it happened. I'm sorry you lost money, but if you play in a high-risk environment, you have to be prepared for losses.

I'm even not sorry for his loss of money.
804  Other / Off-topic / Re: What we've learnt today. on: March 16, 2012, 02:33:19 PM
I learned that Krugman is tired to trying to reason with me.

805  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: First Pirate Savings and Trust on: March 16, 2012, 02:25:10 PM
I'm very happy to learn that there truly exists a serious non-trivial use of Bitcoin besides the Silk Road. Would you mind if I ask if your business is still growing? Do you have some plans to widen your business to a similar but more "public" area? I'm not prying your secret. I just think you are contributing a lot to the Bitcoin world, and I would like to hear more positive news. Smiley
806  Economy / Speculation / Re: We finally did it! The price is stable!!! on: March 16, 2012, 11:46:07 AM
Look Ma, the price is stable again! Cheesy

We did it!  Again!


Let's celebrate!
807  Economy / Speculation / Re: We finally did it! The price is stable!!! on: March 16, 2012, 10:05:19 AM
Look Ma, the price is stable again! Cheesy
808  Economy / Economics / Poll about the fundamentals on: March 15, 2012, 08:03:36 AM
Notes: "Outgrow" means the outgrowth of the number of total orders. It's a little easier to observe than the total revenues or profits.
809  Bitcoin / Hardware / Wow this board is finally here! on: March 12, 2012, 05:36:29 AM

Can't wait to see an ASIC board. Cheesy
810  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: March 11, 2012, 10:41:03 AM
An article in Chinese teaching how to mine and exchange Bitcoins. Copied and pasted by many popular websites in China.

http://www.google.com.hk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81%E8%83%BD%E6%8D%A2%E9%92%B1%2C%E7%BC%96%E8%BE%91%E5%B8%A6%E4%BD%A0%E8%B8%8F%E4%B8%8A%22%E8%87%B4%E5%AF%8C%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%22
811  Economy / Services / Investigation: would you like to see an investment banking service? on: March 11, 2012, 06:53:26 AM
Or we can just call it a GLBSE stock issuing service.

I've been thinking on it for a while. It seems that creating new stocks on GLBSE becomes a time and energy consuming job. So I guess that maybe some people would pay someone else for it. If you are about to issue shares yourself, and there is a service which:

1. Announces your new GLBSE stock on the Bitcointalk forums.
2. Maintains a webpage for you to disclose your internal financial data and the details of your business.
3. Answers the shareholders' questions with the information you want to give.
4. Notifies the shareholders about each payment of dividends on both the forums and the webpage.
5. Arranges liquidation.
6. Charges you some of your shares. (maybe 1%-3%?)

Will you consider using it?

I think I'm not qualified to do this, due to my poor English skills and lack of experience. I'm just curious if someone
would need this kind of service, as the GLBSE economy grows. I'm also wondering if it is a good idea that
GLBSE provide the similar service itself.  Smiley
812  Economy / Speculation / Re: Could I drive up the Bitcoin price with a clearing purchase? on: March 10, 2012, 11:16:42 AM
If you leverage your $85k up using the 10:1 choice at Bitcoinica, you might be able to drive the price up a little bit.
But I wonder if Bitcoinica has so many dollars to lend to you though.
813  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: March 10, 2012, 08:27:38 AM
I can't help myself showing this pic.
814  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 09, 2012, 12:08:09 PM
Eurofag here, was a small time miner (+/- 4Ghash/s), but quit.
I'm flying to Beijing in few weeks for few months to write my master's thesis on civil liberties on the Web in China. A section shall have crypto-currency as subject, focusing on Bitcoin.

In a previous post was mentionned the fact that western uses are not present in China. Vastly used, cash provides same anonymity as Bitcoin does. What could be the main reasons Chinese would use Bitcoin ?

What'd be the threshold for the PRC Government to intervene on the Bitcoin subject ?



p.s. as poor student, also looking to make extra $$, any tips on getting advantages on my travel ? (import goods ? btc wallet on usb ?!  Wink )


Chinese would use Bitcoin as an investment opportunity, they would also use it to pay for some internet services that are illegal in China.

The Bitcoin subject is far too negligible for the PRC Government. Running exchanges might violate the current laws, but the Bitcoin network as a whole will not be an attacking target of the government in at least several years.

answer to your p.s.: I could give you some general advice. Cameras, pads, and laptops are considerably more expensive in China, because of the tariff and VAT. You could take some of them and sell. Perfume, cosmetics and jewelry are also profitable. Finding enough buyers is not easy though. On the other hand, pirate books, DVDs and software are everywhere in China and they are nearly free. You could carry some back to your country if you are not morally against it and ready to take the risk when passing the customs. I suggest you to enter China via Shanghai or Beijing. The probability of getting your luggage checked in southern China cities is much higher.
815  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 07, 2012, 09:48:31 AM
...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

The actual interest rate is indeed very high. But you'll have to know the right place to invest first.


A lot of people can't get loans anyway though.  They borrow from family.  I don't see many people getting loans as the housing market is slowing down in China.  In Guangzhou they have cut some prices by 75%.

In Jiangsu and Zhejiang, a vast number of small and medium sized manufacture companies, which contribute to a considerable portion of the whole economy, rely on loans to live and thrive. They usually get private loans, because banks usually aren't willing to let them borrow.
816  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 07, 2012, 08:44:05 AM
...I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation...

Inflation is rough there.  From May 2011 to December 2011 the inflation on basic foods was up 5-10% in the same markets.

Isn't the interest rate also high out there?

The actual interest rate is indeed very high. But you'll have to know the right place to invest first.

The interest rate in banks are highly regulated to a very low level. The returns of bonds do not match CPI either.

The stock market in China is basically a scam of Chinese government to cheat out people's money to save and foster the corrupting and inefficient state owned enterprises. It's the heaven of manipulators and speculators, especially those who has relationship with government officers, but the last place any serious investors will look at.

The interest rate of private loans, as a reaction, is very high. But it's not without risk. Any interest rate higher than 400% of the nominal interest rate of banks, is not protected by the law of PR China.

You could also invest in houses and precious metal. Or you can directly invest into some business without stock exchanges. But none of them are as safe as doing so in western countries, due to the unpredictable future move of the non-constitutional PRC government.
817  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 06, 2012, 07:04:48 AM
China is only an industrial super power because they keep their currency fixed. I have heard that the PRC is starting to see some inflation, although i do not have hard facts. But i do know, the moment they stop fixing the the RMB, the industrial base will not be able to be sustained.

I have no idea how regular PRC citizens think of their government as of now, but it could be possible that some citizens could see what they are doing and use bitcoin as protection against inflation. Although gold would be better suited for this, but i have no idea what the laws on gold are in PRC.

Regular PRC citizens think their government as a necessary evil that is more evil than necessary. Many people buy gold or silver, but more people like investing in houses. Precious metal is allowed in China, but the policy in China is very volatile, no one can tell what the government will do in 5 or 10 years. Ordinary families with low or moderate income suffer from this uncertainty.
818  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 01, 2012, 08:20:12 AM
In the short term, I think, geeks and speculators would be the first ones who are attracted to Bitcoin in China, just like any other places of the world.

Very true - also I wouldn't be surprised at all if computers at some "wang ba's" (internet cafe/bars that are popular for gaming) are mining like crazy when not being used by customers (or perhaps even used by customers to do so).


I could confirm this. Some of the miners I know are owners of internet bars. The rest of miners fall into these three categories.

1. Employees of government offices, who have access to free computers and free electricity.
2. Former professional wireless password crackers re-using their existing GPUs.
3. Serious miners (>10G) paying for their own electricity, most of which entered mining in the last June.
819  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 01, 2012, 08:05:17 AM
Evading tax by faking vouchers is not without risk. The local government may randomly punish some of them to frighten the rest.

True but for sure it is still very common (the stored value card business is still going strong I believe).

I mostly agree with you though, especially for your last paragraph. BTW how many years have you been in China? It is very uncommon for a westerner to know so many details that are more or less "underground".  Grin

Have been here over 5 years now and my wife is Chinese. Smiley


5 years is indeed a long time. It's even enough for you to learn to understand most of the online Chinese materials. Smiley

In the short term, I think, geeks and speculators would be the first ones who are attracted to Bitcoin in China, just like any other places of the world.
820  Economy / Economics / Re: How big is Bitcoin's presence in China? on: March 01, 2012, 07:37:46 AM
Large multinationals might pay a lot of tax but most small businesses do not (ever been asked "xu yao fa piao ma?").

It is very common for an employee's salary to be officially listed as 3,500 RMB per month (no tax due on that) and then to receive an annual (or sometimes monthly) bonus in the form of either cash or stored value cards (which are anonymous for values at least up to 100,000 RMB).

Also bear in mind the very vast majority of Chinese do not work for companies at all (they work in the farms and get paid cash in hand).

Moving cash between banks can be a pain so in fact for large amounts they are often physically carried and if to another city then by train (so cost of train tickets).

I'm not saying there is no use for Bitcoin in PRC but quite a few of the commonly listed "use cases" that are very applicable to westerners (such as credit card or Paypal fees) are just not applicable in China.



Evading tax by faking vouchers is not without risk. The local government may randomly punish some of them to frighten the rest.

I mostly agree with you though, especially for your last paragraph. BTW how many years have you been in China? It is very uncommon for a westerner to know so many details that are more or less "underground".  Grin
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