when it comes to a palestinian state of gaza being recognised as a full state. but in condition of a peaceful palestinian authority governing it.. im all for it
- there is actual ancient historical provenance claim to it(filistinia/filistines)
when it comes to palestinian mixed-state of westbank being recognised as a semi-state. but in condition of a peaceful palestinian authority governing it with isreal government (area B+C model) or elections just choose PAor just isreal government.. but only with agreement to co-exist civilly.. im all for it
- westbank has a flimsy claim of (philadelphians)
im also for if westbank voluntarily without war or blood shed gave isrealis choice and time to move out of westbank depending on how future elections go, whereby there is also an option of co-existance if isrealis staying.
comparison to other nations
i imagine gaza as like france.. the main state of the french.. gaza for palestinians with no isreali-jew influence politically or culturally
i imagine westbank as like canadan.. the co-exiting area of the french+canadians... where the westbank co-exists between palestinians and isreali's
but the attempts to recognise the entire large land mass of "from river to sea" thats super flimsy and cant beat the claims of isrealites/judeans. and most other nations of the world only recognise "palestine" in one way or another as just a brand name only kind of scenario. not actual statehood
Well, the global position is clear from the UN votes. Now, how many HAMAS/HAMAS sympathizers among Palestinians did Israel create vs how many they destroyed in the last 2 years? That is, do you think there are now more or less Palestinians that align themselves closer to HAMAS ideology than before Israel started attacking? And is creating more HAMAS supporters among Palestinians is a benefit or a disadvantage for current Israeli plan? |
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the reason i dont respond to some of your crap is your sources use the buzzwords that show they side with the hamas rhetoric take that "us doctor" he seen children die. but he cant tell WHO killed them, just that they were killed. and when he uses the words of "genocide" "zionism" you can see where his mindset lays and what side he idolises more even without any recounts of what he said he witnessed. especially then if you think with your brain in an unbias outsider prospective(hard for you to achieve), that he does not actually know which side killed them, you then realise he is only inferring it must have been israel due to his pre-conceived bias yes in urban warfare there will be collateral damage and casualties of war.. but YOU keep trying to avoid talking about the stuff hamas does. which reveals your bias even the prisoner thing.. many know when they are set free they are due compensations, so the more savage they describe their experience the bigger pay they can get and then later endorsement deals and such so worth it to them to make their story newsworthy and a big deal. so there is always an element of not taking peoples words as gospel and instead investigating/researching atleast i can admit the parts and issues the british government played in the middle east.. shame you cant talk about hamas's issues and instead keep trying to infer they are all of israel cause(facepalm) you keep ignoring that israel are the ones offering food and aid.. now go on tell me how hamas is helping the palestinians vs how hamas is harming them.. go on be honest about your idold you love How many bullets do you think a surgeon must extract from children to be able to differentiate between 7.62×51mm NATO or .338 Lapua vs 7.62×39mm AK-47 rounds with high degree of certainty? I'm guessing at this point every kid in Palestine can easily tell you a difference. In a new report published against the backdrop of intensifying Israeli military operations in Gaza City, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, urged Israel and all countries to fulfil their obligations under international law “to end the genocide” and punish those responsible.
“The Commission finds that Israel is responsible for the commission of genocide in Gaza,” insisted Navi Pillay, Chair of the Commission. “It is clear that there is an intent to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza through acts that meet the criteria set forth in the Genocide Convention.”
...
Israeli authorities and security forces “committed four of the five genocidal acts defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide”.
These acts are:
killing,
causing serious bodily or mental harm,
deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the Palestinians, and
imposing measures intended to prevent births. It must be hard to accept that it's not just some radicals using the genocide "buzzwords", but an official finding by a UN commission and not just a single one act of genocide, but 4 separate genocidal acts out of possible 5! |
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and there is another dull brain that just wants to treat hamas as "palestinians"
if you cant understand that hamas need to be treated as a separate arab tribe/faction/clan(with its own regime) compared to what palestinians(citizens) want
hamas want isreali genoside and own everything "river to sea"
hamas want to eradicate all history of any claims of the area ever being that of the kingdoms of isrealites and kingdom of judeans
hamas dont want peace they want war and genocide
hamas dont want co-existance with isreali-jews
palestinians in gaza want to have a PA govern gaza and gaza recognised as a palestinian state
palestinians in westbank want to have a PA govern westbank and recognise westbank as another palestinian state
palestinians want to co-exist with isreali-jews
pealestinians want to live in peace not war
hamas steal FREE aid and resell it at extortion prices to palestinians after feeding the good/luxury stuff to troops
hamas use palestinians as human shields demanding/coercing/threatening palestinians to not leave the urban warfare areas
hamas offer shelter in their lawfare protected infrastructure only if people are willing to be martyed for the hamas cause
IDF/GHF offer aid sites for free
IDF/GHF offer safe places, for free no signing their souls to a regime
isreal/IDF offer peacedeals, treaties and even possibility of statehood(s) if a peaceful palestinian authority is governing the region(s)
how about try to look at the acts and atrocities hamas have done on palestinians and israeli's. and dont be blind to what hamas is upto.
look at where the FREE aid that palestinians do get comes from.
look at who is warning palestinians when certain infrastructure becomes controlled by hamas and they use it as their lawfare trick to then operate the military actions by pretending they should be lawfully protected under humanitarian protections
i hear the silly rhetoric already scenarios like
IDF target hamas leader/mid level troop in a residence, where the hamas leader has a high level threat alert of him causing great harm to others including multiple palestinians and multiple isreali's. he is hiding with his wife and 2 children used as human shields/martyrs for the hamas cause.
idiots respond "OMG IDF killed 4 palestinians, and 3 of them were women and children all four people need to make us cry they were all innocent"
You can copy and paste the same stuff over and over as much as you want, just realize that with every iteration people believe it less and less. The whole world did look at the atrocities that both HAMAS and Israel committed, and the whole world has spoken, it's just that you're unwilling or unable to accept that the world doesn't support Israel's genocide in retaliation to HAMAS's terrorism. Macron hopes his recognition of a Palestinian state will be a landmark contribution to Mideast peace
The U.K., Canada, Australia, Portugal, Malta, Belgium and Luxembourg, among others, are expected to follow Macron’s lead in recognizing Palestinian statehood in the coming days. You must be happy and totally support more and more countries recognizing Palestinian state, correct?  |
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And of course US vetoes UN Security Council resolution demanding immediate Gaza ceasefire and hostage release
The 14 other members of the United Nations’ most powerful body voted in favor of the resolution, which described the humanitarian situation in Gaza as “catastrophic” and called on Israel to lift all restrictions on the delivery of aid to the 2.1 million Palestinians in the territory.
, all countries have border customs checks to ensure contraband does not get into a destined country/area.. especially inregards to stuff that can be weaponised or aid a military/civilian terrorgroup.. also you have to realise israel and GHF set up their own food aid and medical centres in safe zones where food and medical assistance exists, away from area's taken over/controlled by hamas. israel GHF have repaired and set up utilities such as water pipes and sewerage and other stuff in safe zones hamas have no intent to rebuild unless sponsored/paid by outside countries for huge profit however the UN want to send in aid, which includes medical supplies, 'civilian defence' equipment, and military training in lawfare.. but where supplies are destined for hamas controlled area's as the UN recognise hamas as the government and legit 'health ministry' of gaza. the UN refuse to let israel/GHF to take UN supplies into gaza to supply and assist palestinians in the safe zones. they instead want to have hamas delegate themselves or people within gaza to pick up the UN supplies and take it into the hamas zones. funnily enough the UNs local agents in the middle east fear and refuse to themselves go into gaza. fearing if the UN agents are captured by hamas it would become a political prisoner game of hamas then making demands/blackmailing requests of certain things to return the prisoners. so although the UN wants to pretend hamas are legit government that run a country for the benefit of palestinians, UN fear hamas's real acts that have occured in the past by hamas and dont want hamas to leverage more power items UN want to send in are protective vests (gives hamas not only kevlar, but with 'press'/'aid' lettering to then perform lawfare tactics), radio's, fuel and other equipment that can aid the hamas military the UN want to send in training material to give hamas idea's of lawfare gaming to get away with war crimes. such as taking over infrustructure and residences to then pretend to 'defend and support infrastructure'(maybe  )  such as  items like luxury foods which would go to hamas troops as reward/salary bonus/coercion to join their regime, but not destined to get to regular palestinians for free .. so its not a simple question of 'lift the restrictions, let everything in' there actually is a border customs search of aid to ensure it wont benefit hamas troops or used to sway palestinians to stay within hamas area's by giving hamas aid to [carrot/stick] the palestinians into staying in the urban warfare area's .. israel do send in more than enough food calories/nutrients than needed, so much so that enough food has been sent in that it would feed 2m people into 2026 israel do send in medical supplies just not to hamas strongholds israel have warned all along that palestinians need to get well clear of the hamas strongholds to save themselves from risks of battle in the urban warfare hamas created by cowardly hiding in towns/cities of high residential population See, UN commission found that Israel committed 4 acts of genocide with "intent to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza through acts that meet the criteria set forth in the Genocide Convention.”. 14 out of 15 members of UN security council and 142 (with only 10 against including Israel and US) members of general assembly voted for a two-state solution. Thus your argument becomes that after UN's own commission found Israel actively committing 4 acts of genocide against Palestine, UN now should just hand food distribution to Israel over Palestinians? This is such a weak argument that even despite US backing, almost no one in this world believes that a state committing genocide should be given control over food distributions over people it's committing genocide against. Shocking, right? /s |
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In a new report published against the backdrop of intensifying Israeli military operations in Gaza City, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, urged Israel and all countries to fulfil their obligations under international law “to end the genocide” and punish those responsible.
“The Commission finds that Israel is responsible for the commission of genocide in Gaza,” insisted Navi Pillay, Chair of the Commission. “It is clear that there is an intent to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza through acts that meet the criteria set forth in the Genocide Convention.”
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Israeli authorities and security forces “committed four of the five genocidal acts defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide”.
These acts are:
killing,
causing serious bodily or mental harm,
deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the Palestinians, and
imposing measures intended to prevent births. Interesting that Israel didn't do all 5 genocidal acts and left one out. But the 5th one is "Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group: This act involves the removal of children from their families or communities and placing them in different cultural or ethnic environments, with the intent to erase their identity." i guess it's easier for Israel just to kill the children than to bother erasing their identities. But who knows, maybe Israel will commit this one too to get all 5 out of 5. And of course US vetoes UN Security Council resolution demanding immediate Gaza ceasefire and hostage release
The 14 other members of the United Nations’ most powerful body voted in favor of the resolution, which described the humanitarian situation in Gaza as “catastrophic” and called on Israel to lift all restrictions on the delivery of aid to the 2.1 million Palestinians in the territory.
So: China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, Denmark, Greece, Guyana, Pakistan, Panama, Republic of Korea, Sierra Leone, Slovenia, Somalia, Algeria all voted to force Israel to lift all restrictions on the delivery of aid and one country United States vetoed it. In other news U.N. General Assembly overwhelmingly votes for a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict...
The 193-member world body approved a nonbinding resolution endorsing the "New York Declaration," which sets out a phased plan to end the nearly 80-year conflict. The vote was 142-10 with 12 abstentions. The United States was one of the 10 states that voted against. It's as if the overwhelming majority of the whole world just doesn't believe Israel's claims |
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Interesting how the narrative is changing, first Russians were some non human "orcs" that fought with just shovels and whatever little ammo they do get they would waste on kindergartens for no apparent reasons, and if anyone though of surrounding or switching sides they would surely be eaten alive! To hey look this looks more like a civil war, and there are Ukrainians that are fighting and are even in leading positions against current Ukrainian regime. How a Ukrainian officer betrayed the Armed Forces of Ukraine and now commands the Russian assault on Kupyansk
Russian forces are attempting to storm the Ukrainian town of Kupyansk, once again using an underground gas pipeline under the Oskil River to attack, as they did in Avdiivka and Sudzha. The BBC has learned that the Russian offensive on the town is being led by a former Ukrainian officer who betrayed his oath and defected to Russia.
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Collaborator from Murafa
Lieutenant General Serhiy Storozhenko was born in 1975 in the village of Murafa in the Kharkiv region.
These places were not occupied by Russia during the 2022 invasion or later. According to Ukrainian media, Storozhenko's relatives were still living in Kharkiv and Sumy regions even at the beginning of the invasion.
In 1992, he entered the Intelligence Faculty of the Institute of Ground Forces in Kyiv.
In 2016, then-Colonel Storozhenko gave an interview to Novaya Gazeta, where he spoke about his service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea: "The USSR has not existed for a year, I have been a Ukrainian serviceman from the very beginning."
He served in the 36th Coastal Defense Brigade of the Ukrainian Navy, where over two decades he rose from company commander to battalion commander, and later to brigade commander. He was the deputy commander of the Ukrainian contingent in Kosovo as part of the KFOR forces.
During the annexation of Crimea in March 2014, there were about 1,200 military personnel under his command.
According to him, during the days of Russia's annexation of Crimea, he was contacted by acting President of Ukraine Oleksandr Turchynov and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who were interested in his plans and what he intended to do. Storozhenko, he said, took no action and submitted his resignation.
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Of the 1,200 servicemen of the 36th Brigade, about half left for Ukraine, while 600 remained in Crimea and began serving in the Russian army. There, Storozhenko headed the newly created 126th Coast Guard Brigade and in eight years — from the annexation of Crimea to the start of the full-scale war — made a career as a Russian officer.
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Pipe 3.0
Recently, information has emerged that Russian troops have found another way to bring reinforcements across the river. They have decided to use one of the strands of the defunct gas pipeline between the villages of Lyman Pershchy on the eastern bank of the Oskol and Radkivka on the western bank.
The distance between these settlements is nine kilometers, but the pipe does not run in a straight line - its length is about 13 km.
The use of gas pipes to penetrate the rear of Ukrainian troops was reported earlier - during the battles for Avdiivka and Sudyzha. And now it became known about another such underground passage. In the footage published by Z-bloggers, you can see Russian soldiers crawling through a narrow pipe. "We push each other on wheelbarrows, we go to the position," a voiceover is heard .
Brigade literally split 50% - 50% and might be even fighting each other now. Would be very interesting to find this brigade after this is all over and check survivors from both sides. Seriously, this is at least the third time Russia is using pipes trick to penetrate into Ukraine, surely Ukrainian/NATO commanders cannot be that incompetent still not to secure the pipes? |
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Funny until one remembers that the population of these areas voted something like 9 to 1 to be part of the Russian Federation
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It is easy to have a vote wenn the native population has been removed and schatterd around the world, because after all a submarine base is more imported that the native Crimean Tatars (Turkic ethnic group). Crimea has been a country before Russia or Ukraine even existed. The dopple headed eagle on Russian presidential flag why the war even exists, "Order out of chaos". https://x.com/i/status/1967180608490406014"Every country has its own mafia. In Russia, the mafia has its own country." — Garry Kasparov Putin is a product of the west Meanwhile "falling debris" must have caused the fire at Kirishi refinery, the largest oil refinery in Liningrad region, top 10 in Russia, 800 km from Ukraine. In Perm region Russias biggest methanol producer has technical issues. Seams like the war is running of course, the Ukraine people dealing with the parasite class. The poster child how to run a totalitarien country is in trouble Voting in Ruzzia is like a joke, but it is nevertheless interesting how they keep the appearences.. just like the commies pretended to be commies til the last minute. Fortunately, you do not need to vote sanctions if you can apply kinetic sanctions on oil. Two tankers in Primorsk... https://youtu.be/FgGPFCPJwsARefineries every other day... sometimes two in a day... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1XHzMxGFbIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neAt3SO5tcQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WflwwUXfv7cPutin will eventually have to stop pretending this war does not affect Ruzzia and is just something for tv. Why are you evading the question? Do you still believe that blowing up Nord Stream was international terrorism and an act of war? A simple "yes" or "no" would suffice. |
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Pupin fatigue is becoming as real as BLM fatigue after watching a video of a Ukrainian girl trying to escape Putin's war only to have her throat cut by a violent black thug here in the US. You could not make this shit up for a horror movie. Sanction the shit out of both Russia , antifa terrorists, Black lives matter and punish every other communist,marxist & jihadist sympathiser that has destroyed our peace on earth. Russia , Iran and China must take great comfort in the fact that there are so many treacherous marxist and jihadist mobs marauding our countries they will not need to send armies to destroy us at this stage.
Problem with that is that they already applied all sanctions that disproportionately hurt Russia three years ago (as everyone knows, sanctions always hurt both sides). Sanctions that hurt both sides equally were applied two years ago, and now at round 20 only thing left to sanction are things that will hurt west more than Russia. But uneducated still call for more sanction as if it's some kind of magical weapon, and to keep the appearance of control and power politicians are now pushed to apply sanctions that hurt themselves more than Russia. We see that when USA overplayed its hand and threatened China with even more tariffs but instead China took a stance and indicated that a strong partnership with Russia is essential for their own national security and geopolitical strategy. Then USA applied tariffs to India, but instead it pushed India closer to Russia and China. Bottom line any additional sanctions now might have some short term effects and political gains, but long term they're counter productive and just strengthen China by pushing countries away from the "west" and to China's sphere of influence. But honestly at this point I'm not sure what Trump prioritizes more, undermining left EU governments and bringing more "right" governments to power in the EU or not providing China with more discounts |
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Yet Germany supports Ukraine with money, weapons and other aid. Why don't you give their goverment a ring and "explain" all that to them. And now you talk about France politics and whattabout with it? Are you trying to avoid talking about the frontlines and the refining crisis in Ruzzia? [...]
Russia's government doesn't simply think something up and then act. That was the USSR that did that.
Today Russia is a constitutional democracy. Except in real emergencies, Putin has to follow the Russian rules for deciding to do something.[...]
BA, tell me, what is required to have a democracy. I am saying this because once again you are spreading fake. So you make a statements that blowing up Nord Stream was international terrorism and an act of war, and now evading answering if you still stand by those statements? Quiet telling when you're avoiding commenting even on your own words. Yes it appears that Merz and Macron backed themselves into a corner. Unlike Ukraine, people still have a voice there so both presidents are paying dearly for this with their approval ratings. Macron and Merz escalated this to the point where it became existential for themselves and now almost guaranteed to bring ultra rights into EU. Which works for both Putin and Trump, they're destroying EU for a chance to capture Ukraine, great move  The agreement about not attacking energy facilities seems to be off, Russian refineries are attacked and so is Ukraine electrical infrastructure. Kyiv is already having blackouts with the mildest weather not even close to winter. I don't bother myself with sensational hourly events on the front line, overall it appears that red machine continues to steadily grinding through Ukraine, as expected. I am saying that Germany is supporting Ukraine and recent declarations by their prime minister are very clear on that and that you should give all those "explanations" to them. Why are you evading the question? Do you still believe that blowing up Nord Stream was international terrorism and an act of war? A simple "yes" or "no" would suffice. There is no free lunch, France sent billions to Ukraine and now needs to cut pensions and holidays just to attempt to lower the deficit. Naturally, French are having non of this and are protesting, started the "Block Everything" movement and are calling for Macron's resignation. When do you think Macron will announce next billion for Ukraine? Similar with Merz, people are not supporting their financial decisions. |
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Yet Germany supports Ukraine with money, weapons and other aid. Why don't you give their goverment a ring and "explain" all that to them. And now you talk about France politics and whattabout with it? Are you trying to avoid talking about the frontlines and the refining crisis in Ruzzia? [...]
Russia's government doesn't simply think something up and then act. That was the USSR that did that.
Today Russia is a constitutional democracy. Except in real emergencies, Putin has to follow the Russian rules for deciding to do something.[...]
BA, tell me, what is required to have a democracy. I am saying this because once again you are spreading fake. So you make a statements that blowing up Nord Stream was international terrorism and an act of war, and now evading answering if you still stand by those statements? Quiet telling when you're avoiding commenting even on your own words. Yes it appears that Merz and Macron backed themselves into a corner. Unlike Ukraine, people still have a voice there so both presidents are paying dearly for this with their approval ratings. Macron and Merz escalated this to the point where it became existential for themselves and now almost guaranteed to bring ultra rights into EU. Which works for both Putin and Trump, they're destroying EU for a chance to capture Ukraine, great move The agreement about not attacking energy facilities seems to be off, Russian refineries are attacked and so is Ukraine electrical infrastructure. Kyiv is already having blackouts with the mildest weather not even close to winter. I don't bother myself with sensational hourly events on the front line, overall it appears that red machine continues to steadily grinding through Ukraine, as expected. |
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... And of course Russia ‘endangers the whole world’ with strike on nuclear power plant in Ukraine https://nypost.com/2022/09/19/russia-endangers-the-whole-world-with-strike-on-nuclear-power-plant-in-ukraine/Logic being because that's just what Orcs do? They take over a nuclear plant then shoot at it so they're forced to shut it down before winter starts And just in case readers have any resemblance of brain cells or critical thinking left: Biden, in contrast, told reporters at the White House that “if Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, there will be no longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
Asked how he could be sure, since it would be officials in Berlin, not Washington, who would make the decision, Biden told a journalist: “I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/07/ukraine-russia-scholz-biden-macron/And now of course  Nord Stream pipeline blasts were likely from explosions, not earthquakes, seismologist says https://www.foxnews.com/world/nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-likely-explosions-not-earthquakes-seismologist-saysCan't wait for coverage of Orcs blowing up their own pipelines which they stopped themselves. Logic being that's just what Orcs do? After stopping the gas flow, they blow up the pipeline to make sure they loose all of leverage over Germany for the winter At least elected member of the European parliament and former Polish Defense Minister says how it is, before he's "shown the way" and claims hacks or a joke U.S. Blew Up Russian Gas Pipelines Nord Stream 1 & 2, Says Former Polish Defense Minister https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2022/09/27/us-blew-up-russian-gas-pipelines-nord-stream-1--2-says-former-polish-defense-ministerWondering how low will EUR drop now Interesting theory I reckon, the US being the one blowing up the gas pipe to ensure that Germany does not use it. However it does not make sense, since they anyway have Nord Stream I which is already shut off. If Germany / EU would want RF gas, they can still get it. Following the argument, the NS I goes through Ukraine, but Ukraine would not interrupt these due to risk of EU becoming less friendly. Blowing the Nord Stream II looks like the RF army doing to kind of "make a point" on regards to EU aid and aligns well with a country that is under a Junta. In my view, this is an act of war. The Orc army could have chosen any other target right? A bridge in France, a factory in Germany... Why do you think they would hit NS II? The answer is very simple: it is not in NATO territory and does not grant a NATO mobilisation which would end any expectation of even a technical "victory" in the invasion. Now, what does YOUR critical thinking tell you about this? So paxmao, surely we can all expect you to stay consistent and continue to claim that blowing up Nord Stream was international terrorism and an act of war, correct? In other news unrests in France because they don't have the money to pass the budget Bayrou warned that without action the national debt, which is now 114% of GDP, would bring “domination by creditors” as surely as by foreign powers. selling more of France's future to the bankers or cutting social programs/pensions. Trump couldn't have even thought of a better way to bring ultra rights into EU. With just 18 months left in his term-limited presidency and his approval rating at 15%, the risk for Macron is existential. Even fresh calls for his resignation can be heard, though Macron has ruled it out.MOD keep trying to censor this... |
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Ukraine and the bellicose Western elite need to accept that Russia has won the war. The only solution for Ukraine is to become a neutral country, and never try to join the moribund UN. Austria dis this after the second world war, and it prospered as a result. I believe that this will happen, as Ukraine seems to have stopped forcing young men into battle to be killed. They are the future of Ukraine, and the warmongers seem to realise this. They now seem to be turning their attention to Venezuela to continue the impoverishment of Western countries through warmongering. This gives Ukraine a chance to recover if they can appoint a government that can implement neutrality.
Current Ukrainian government is in too deep to implement neutrality now, and they're not allowing elections so people don't have a choice. But that matters little comparing to some warmongering EU leaders, if war stops there will be a lot of tough questions and investigations for those EU leaders and the spent funds, that they would not be able to answer. Plus they'd have hard time explaining their new prices for Russian oil/gas/resources comparing to their less warmongering neighbors to their electorate. White House believes Europe secretly undoing Ukraine war's end
Senior White House officials believe some European leaders are publicly supporting President Trump's effort to end the war in Ukraine, while quietly trying to undo behind-the-scenes progress since the Alaska summit,
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Two weeks after the summit between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, there has been little clear progress toward ending the war. Frustrated Trump aides contend the blame should fall on European allies, not on Trump or even Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Behind the scenes: White House officials are losing patience with European leaders, whom they claim are pushing Ukraine to hold out for unrealistic territorial concessions by Russia.
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"The Europeans don't get to prolong this war and backdoor unreasonable expectations, while also expecting America to bear the cost," a top White House official told Axios. "If Europe wants to escalate this war, that will be up to them. But they will be hopelessly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."
What they're thinking: The Europeans are said to be pushing Zelensky to hold out for a "better deal" — a maximalist approach that has exacerbated the war, Trump's inner circle argues.
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"Getting to a deal is an art of the possible," the top official said. "But some of the Europeans continue to operate in a fairy-tale land that ignores the fact it takes two to tango."
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"We are going to sit back and watch. Let them fight it out for a while and see what happens," the official said.
Some U.S. officials have begun to see European leaders as a major obstacle, despite the fact that Trump held a friendly meeting with them and Zelensky less than two weeks ago.
Look like Europeans are pushing Ukrainians into another winter with worsening conditions, what could possibly go wrong... /s |
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Blowing the Nord Stream II looks like the RF army doing to kind of "make a point" on regards to EU aid and aligns well with a country that is under a Junta. In my view, this is an act of war. The Orc army could have chosen any other target right? A bridge in France, a factory in Germany... Why do you think they would hit NS II? The answer is very simple: it is not in NATO territory and does not grant a NATO mobilisation which would end any expectation of even a technical "victory" in the invasionMeanwhile, the disconnect between the RF army chief Psychos and the diplomatic and civil side of the government is show again in the terrorist attacks against Nord Stream II.as the RF has destroyed the Nord Streams "outside NATO territory".The Nord Stream was mainly a RF doing...Bottomline, as it is now, it looks like international terrorism from Adolf Putin's Psychos and the Chief Orcs.The Nord Stream investigations are further advanced than previously known. According to research by ARD , Süddeutsche Zeitung, and Die Zeit, investigators have now obtained arrest warrants for six Ukrainians. There is further evidence of state involvement.
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Nearly three years later, German investigators from the Federal Police, the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA), and the Federal Prosecutor's Office, following joint investigations by ARD , Süddeutsche Zeitung (SZ), and Die Zeit, have now identified all individuals alleged to have been part of the sabotage squad blamed for the Nord Stream 2 attack. Arrest warrants have now been issued for six individuals, all Ukrainians. Investigators believe another suspect may have died in the meantime.
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The investigations confirm the suspicion that the group was supported by the Ukrainian state. According to information from ARD , SZ, and Die Zeit, the suspects traveled through Poland using genuine Ukrainian passports, albeit with false names. Last summer, one of the suspects was brought from Poland to Kyiv in the car of the Ukrainian military attaché, possibly to avoid arrest. Ukrainian officials have again rejected the accusation of state involvement in recent days.
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The Andromeda's crew reportedly included a skipper: the man from Odessa is considered an extremely experienced sailor who has competed in competitions around the world. His downfall is said to have been a previous trip to the Netherlands: Due to visa requirements, the Ukrainian was apparently required to provide fingerprints. These, in turn, were found by German criminal investigators on the Andromeda.
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Another suspected member of the sabotage squad, Vsevelod K., may have since been killed while serving in the Ukrainian military during the war against Russia. This man is said to have received military training from the Bundeswehr in Wildflecken as part of a training program after the start of the Russian war of aggression and the attacks on Nord Stream. At the time, he filled out and signed documents while serving with the Bundeswehr. The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) was able to secure DNA traces from the documents that match those found on the "Andromeda."
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According to the investigation, some of the crew on board the "Andromeda" at the time had clear ties to the Ukrainian secret service or military. Whether the attack was therefore actually a Ukrainian state operation has not been proven, according to investigators.
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However, there are indications that some of the accused are very close to the Ukrainian state – and also show a certain patriotism. For example, Serhii K., arrested in Italy last week, made a "trident" gesture with his hand. A gesture, with three fingers extended, is often used in Ukraine to symbolize the "trysub," the trident that appears as a national symbol on flags and coats of arms.
Serhii K. is said to have had two Ukrainian passports, and investigators also have evidence that he used to be a member of the Ukrainian domestic intelligence service.
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Today, after investigations by ARD , SZ, and Zeit, investigators are certain: The team is said to have been traveling with two sets of fake passports each. One Romanian, completely fake passport each, in which neither the person actually existed nor the document was "official." And one Ukrainian passport each with a fictitious name, but officially issued. This is another possible indication of state aid from Ukraine.
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But the cooperation between German investigators and the Polish side was apparently only partially helpful: For months, Polish authorities remained stonewalled. Allegedly, there were no more video recordings from the port. A state secretary in the Polish Ministry of the Interior publicly ridiculed the investigation, referring to "tourists" who had been encountered in Kołobrzeg. In Berlin, suspicions arose that the attack was not unwelcome to Poland, as the country had consistently criticized the pipeline.
When one of the suspected attackers, the man in the speed camera photo, was successfully located in Poland in the summer of 2024, Polish authorities left the German arrest request pending for days. The suspect, who was allegedly involved in the attacks as a diver, managed to escape across the border from Poland into Ukraine – apparently in the car of a Ukrainian diplomat, as a photo taken by border guards later allegedly showed.
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But, after research by ARD , Süddeutsche Zeitung, and Zeit, investigators are convinced they now know the entire crew by name. From a criminal perspective, investigators believe the crime has been largely solved. The first arrest in Italy is already considered a major success.
So paxmao why are all these "Russian" terrorist that committed largest sabotage on EU land all were Ukrainian citizens and even had official second Ukrainian passports with fake names, some served or were connected to Ukrainian intelligence service and some getting rides from Poland into Ukraine in the cars of Ukrainian diplomats? Should NATO trigger article 5 because of an attack on it's infrastructure? But i'm sure it's all going to be played down, dumb Germans don't care and Germany will support Ukraine even more. Only now a new mystery, no one can understand why The hard-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) has become the most popular party in the country, according to the results of a new poll. it's like they're trying to rip EU apart on purpose and bring far right parties across EU (which i'm sure Trump wouldn't mind at all). Well, as top US politician said:  
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If you want to get an idea of how Trump sees this, here are some quotes from his interview to Fox And we're just gonna see, so we're setting up a meeting. I sort of set it up with Putin and Zelenskyy and you know, they're the ones that have to call the shots. We're -- we're 7,000 miles away in all fairness. You know, we have -- We've spent through the previous administration $350 billion. Europe has spent a lot also, 100 billion, but it should be reversed if we should have been in for anything, but it wouldn't have happened.
Well, the war really started over NATO and Crimea, and they wanted Crimea back, that was given. Not a shot fired by President Obama in perhaps the worst real estate deal I've ever seen. I've, there's been a couple of them. I would say the Gaza Strip was a pretty bad one too, given by Israel, so they'd have peace.
So they gave away a big percentage of their oceanfront property in order to have peace. How did that work out? Not so good.
And, uh, Crimea is the apple of, of Ukraine. I mean, it's so beautiful. And, uh, Obama gave it away. Nobody ever mentions that. If I ever did that, the fake news would be, uh, they would be writing about me day and night for years. He gave it away. He demanded they, that they let it go, and Russia came in and took it. Uh, just took it like from a candy from a baby.
It was really Obama's -- Uh, not really. I mean, that was, pure and simple, Obama's fault. What a terrible thing he did to that country. And so they lost their heart. They lost the, the heart and soul of the Ukraine 14 years ago, whatever it might be, and, uh, it was so unnecessary to do that. And that's when it really began, when Obama gave it away.
And so there's, uh, there's great hostility and, uh, maybe rightfully so. But one thing was NATO, they, they went in, they said, "We want you -- You know, we wanna get Crimea back." This was at the beginning. Now Putin, in all fairness to him, he made a good deal. He got it from Obama, but they said, "We want it back." And that was not exactly well received, because it was like 12 years before.
That's where Russia has its submarine base. And, you know, that's been there long before Putin, you know, they've been there for a long time, but long before Putin. And the other thing, uh, they said is, "We want to be a member of NATO." Well, both of those things are impossible because, again, long before Putin, it was a no-no by Russia or the Soviet Union or anything you wanna call it. Uh, sort of a similar thing as it gets larger, but, uh, very similar.
But it was, it was always a no-no. You could not -- Russia said, "We don't want, uh, the so-called opponent or the enemy." Let's use that term. "We don't want 'em on our border." And they were right. They were okay. And, yet, uh, they went in and they asked with the United States, they said, "Put us into NATO." And everybody knew you can't, you just can't do that.
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-- there'll be some form of security. It can't be NATO because that was a, uh, that's just not something that would ever, ever happen. He couldn't, they couldn't do that.
Who would want that? I mean, if you were Russia, who would want to have your, your enemy, your opponent sitting on your line. You don't do that. So it was always thought that -- that, uh, Ukraine was, uh, sort of a buffer between Russia and the rest of Europe. And it was, it was a big wide buffer. Everything worked out well until Biden got involved, you know, when Biden gave them $100 billion dollars right up front.
I don't give them anything. You know, I don't know if you know it, but since I've been there, we -- we don't pay. First of all, I made a deal to take rare earth. That's the equivalent of much more than the 350 billion that Biden, uh, got away because I felt so foolish. It was so stupid what he did. And I was able to make a deal with Ukraine, and they were very nice.
They have great rare earth among the best in the world, and we took much more than the 350 billion. And they -- they were great about it. So we got that, you know -- you know handled. But now we don't pay any money to Ukraine. They buy through the -- through NATO, because I got NATO to go from 2% to 5%. 2% when they didn't pay, 2% of GDP, 2% when they didn't pay and 5% now they do pay.
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So we're not losing. We don't -- we're not like we were with Biden where we are paying hundreds of billions of dollars out. We're paying nothing.
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No, it's a fractured relationship. And when I came in, I always had, despite the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, which truly was a very dangerous thing for our country. But despite that, I maintained a very good relationship. I mean, you saw that when he got off his plane, I got off my plane. There's a warmth there that you can't, you know -- There's a -- there's a decent feeling.
Transcribe https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump/transcript/donald-trump-interview-fox-and-friends-telephone-august-19-2025/I mean US president directly stated that Ukraine is a buffer state, and you don't have you enemy sitting in a buffer state. I don't know how much clearer he can say that this is about spheres of influence and buffers between great powers. And just in case any Europeans still believe in rules. law and not abusing power IMPOSING SANCTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the International Criminal Court (ICC), as established by the Rome Statute, has engaged in illegitimate and baseless actions targeting America and our close ally Israel. The ICC has, without a legitimate basis, asserted jurisdiction over and opened preliminary investigations concerning personnel of the United States and certain of its allies, including Israel, and has further abused its power by issuing baseless arrest warrants targeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Former Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant.
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The United States unequivocally opposes and expects our allies to oppose any ICC actions against the United States, Israel, or any other ally of the United States that has not consented to ICC jurisdiction. The United States remains committed to accountability and to the peaceful cultivation of international order, but the ICC and parties to the Rome Statute must respect the decisions of the United States and other countries not to subject their personnel to the ICC’s jurisdiction, consistent with their respective sovereign prerogatives.
The United States will impose tangible and significant consequences on those responsible for the ICC’s transgressions, some of which may include the blocking of property and assets, as well as the suspension of entry into the United States of ICC officials, employees, and agents, as well as their immediate family members, as their entry into our Nation would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.
So for US and any other ally of the US ICC laws don't apply, but who cares if Yugoslavia, Libya didn't sign the Rome statue to them the law! “To my friends, anything; to my enemies, the law” Can someone tell Putin that apparently anyone can just sanction ICC back if you don't like what they're doing, cause that's how law works, right? |
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I already showed you the reason why he is still the president. Elections cannot be held when interference and lack of safety are certain.
No need for gym of any kind, but actually need to read.
And i showed and cited the constitution showing how it's not true. Are you saying that elections that US held in Afghanistan and Iraq with literal US troops with guns at voting stations were not legitimate? Good thing Taliban didn't win at those fair elections Surely you won't claim double standards here again, right? Religion is not a problem, religion that we don't control and doesn't serve our purposes is.  classic. The oposite is true: Ruzzia wants certain church (not religion) because it serves its purposes. There is no limit to the religion you can personally practice in Ukraine. You mean just as Ukraine wants certain church because it serves its purpose? Russia demonstrated that encroachments on it's remaining sphere of influence is an existential threat for Russia.
"Demonstrated"... how does that work? Remaining... or rather "growing if left unattended"? That is objectively a lie.  Yeah look at Russian military sphere growing Russians have even expanded to NATO's Belarus now!  quick send some cookies to Belarus, that should be enough to convince them to suicide themselves fighting Russia, and then perhaps after they're destroyed because of course US can't send them enough weapons to actually win over Russia, Belarusian president can come to the white house and thank US dozen times for the great opportunity to be a sacrificial pawn. All while letting China grow uncontrollably and provide them another discount on all the resources they might need. Solid plan! Europe just doesn't have the resources to sustain itself or to manufacture products for export. So it needs to import resources, and it needs to import resources at such a prices that would keep the final product competitive on the global market. Europe needs to either outsource all of it's manufacturing to regions with cheaper resources and transition to providing services or it needs the leverage of Russian resources. Subsidizing manufacturing to work on American freedom gas is just not sustainable long term.
Which matters zero if Europe has to wage a war to defend itself from Ruzzia. That would be expensive. Feeding a bear makes a bigger bear. Ah right, the scare tactics of Russia attacking NATO and only Ukraine can defend helpless NATO. How come in 2013 everything was fine, and no one even thought of Europe fighting Russia? What possible could've happened then to set all of this off.  Merkel was the only one that managed to keep everything together.
Translation: Merkel good because sold German industry to bear. Merkel good because she kept status quo. Russia was not growing, and Germany was prospering. Now Germany's standards of living are dropping, Germany must send billions to Ukraine, Russia expanding, Germany lost access to Russia's resources, Trump imposed new tariffs on Germany, and Merz must go and thank Trump for this all  When she resigned AfD was at 11%, now AfD is at 24% and it's inevitable that Merz will only continue dropping. This is the real existential thread for Germany and Europe, what genius figured that it's worth risking this over Ukraine is beyond me, but then again once you become a puppet and puppeteer decides to take care of himself first you won't have an option. Germany is now screwed, and if they try to outlaw a party that every 4th person supports, it'll get even worse very fast. And all that would be fine... until Putin decides to wage a war in Europe, invade an independent country, threaten with nukes.... Then you have to think of something else. Rise of populists and nationalists across Europe, especially in Germany is fine for you? Trump in US, Giorgia Meloni in Italy, France, Germany hanging by a thread but Europe must send more money to Ukraine because that's working so great. It's like they're trying to destroy EU. Yes if factories move from Germany to Hungary they're still in EU, clearly it's a net negative for Germany and positive for Hungary, but a zero net for EU.
Then these companies will have to deal with the Hungarian workforce, their skills and... the government. Ask yourself why is the industry still in Germany and not for example in Spain or Czeckia. It's not about absolutes but the trend. And a blind can see where it's heading. I'm sure there will be no consequences whatsoever to push Germans a bit more, right? [...]
Are you not aware that Russia negotiated terms of oil/gas sales individually with each country and not with EU as a whole? And that's another reason why EU leaders went to Washington. Once sanctions are lifted guess what happens when both Orban and Merz go back to negotiate the terms on Russian resources for their factories.
Once this is settled, Germany will begin the production of a decent army - yes probably trading with Ruzzia among many partners that is for sure, but also making sure that they have alternatives if the bear goes mad again. And... welcome again to the arms race - the end result of "spheres" that you seem to think as the only option. New arms race not because Russia wanted to put missiles in Mexico or Canada or wants to take over Poland, but because NATO wants to expand to Ukraine, makes total sense. And what happens when population doesn't believe this and wouldn't support this narrative. Can all populists and ultra rights parties be banned in Europe so not to provide people a choice? What are the consequences if that doesn't work out in Europe?
China cares about Russian price of oil much less than EU does. Meaning both prioritize their long term interests over short term "sale", but China has a much longer horizon. Only now Russia will get an option, and EU will loose the leverage of being the largest buyer.
Of course China does not care about paying below market. Ruzzia however... they will sell below market. BTW it is quite clear that Europe can go on without Ruzzian gas. But Gazprom... https://united24media.com/latest-news/russias-gas-empire-crumbles-gazprom-exports-to-europe-fall-to-50-year-low-10416Now, even with the world’s largest proven gas reserves, Gazprom is running out of buyers. Russian domestic production is falling fast, with Rosstat reporting a 3.2% year-over-year decline in total gas output during the first half of 2025. Liquefied natural gas (LNG) production also dropped by 5.2%. Earlier, the European Commission was set to propose legal measures in June to phase out the EU’s imports of all Russian liquified natural gas (LNG) by the end of 2027. I do not believe everything I read but this should give you a hint. So Europe is paying to providing discount to China which supports Russia, makes sense. How long can Europe/US continue to subsidize China and provide them billions in discounts before everyone realizes that they're creating a much bigger problem? Beijing, from all indications, hopes that the war in Ukraine will continue indefinitely. Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported that Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told Kaja Kallas, the EU foreign policy chief, on July 2 that China does not want Russia to lose because then the U.S. would focus on China. In addition to the continuation of the conflict, the Chinese leadership got something else on Friday. "For Beijing, the Alaska summit confirmed its core belief: The world is a stage for great-power bargains over spheres of influence," Charles Burton of the Prague-based Sinopsis think tank told Newsweek.
If Ukraine won't be neutral and won't have limits on the size of its army it will indeed be a very hard, if not impossible, pill for Russia to swallow.
Too bad. I can recommend taking it with a glass of water. Or vodka. That is what happens when you try to take a country in a week and fail after years trying. I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed once the agreement (if it happens) is disclosed.
Once again with claims that guarantees of NATO's article 5 suddenly mean nothing for Europe and somehow now suddenly everything depends on Ukraine which no one cared about in 2013. Russia will collapse before it lets Ukraine get nuclear weapons (while not being in Russia's sphere).
War has been going for 3.5yrs are you saying Russia can't keep this up for just 12 more months to achieve it's goals on a battlefield?
Nobody knows - probably not even Putin giving the general lack of proper information in Ruzzia, but who said 12 months and who said that it would be enough for any goal. Do not make up things. Maybe 12 months, maybe 12 years. At this pace of "advance". If Ukrainians somehow manage to keep retreating at the current pace it'll take Russia under a year to take all of their claimed territories. And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense
I did not hear that from any European leader. Maybe you dream of it? Since when anyone cares what European leaders have to say when Putin and Trump are talking directly? Trump didn't even greet them when they showed up at the white house, much less offer them a ride in his limo. Do you really think European leaders can go against what Trump decides to do? |
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Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone  ^^^^ Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, r eturn of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine. Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed. We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started. Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic. If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia. But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it. I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not). Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine. New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them. No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading. But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation. The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024. Not according to Ukranian constitution, but as usual you miss the point. Zelensky is not a problem, he will most likely not want to be president. But be careful with what you wish for. If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia.
Religion is not a problem. Having a church that is acting as an spionage service is. If it is not a win.. who cares. Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order.
I guess that Ruzzia has demonstrated then that it cannot keep such "sphere" nor a piramid, nor anything frankly. EU needs Russia's resources,
"Need" is relative term. Europe needs to be Europe and trading resources for sovereignty... I do not see it. Perhaps we are where we are because Merkel did trust Ruzzia.
if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms.
A deal needs a buyer and a seller. Ruzzia will have to figure out who can PAY for such resources. At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU
That is because you do not know why factories are in Germany and you have a simplistic view of how industry works. BTW, your ignorance also extends to how the EU works. There is no internal border. Something that gets to Bulgary is in the EU. Ruzzia cannot choose just "one country" in a common market. I hope your hopes were not placed on that idea. Nor on the idea of industrial relocation to Bulgary (I am laugingh my but out). completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable.
Unfortunately, the moment Ruzzia starts talking nukes and pressing Europe, "freedom oil" is the only oil. Again, go sell to China and good luck with the price.
But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great.
Pretty much the opposite, agreed.
Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end.
Then it does not end. Again, the "spehere" has poped, it is just a question of when Ruzzia will see it. It will take time of course, it is a hard pill to swallow. What is the problem? I do not see any problem seeing Ruzzia loose one refinery a day, or an oil tanker, or more strategic bombers, or more long range radars... Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that,
That is a very good question. The USSR did not find the answer to it and blew, maybe Putin and the next gangsters do, but weapons races are more expensive than car races. and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter.
What an argument. I do not need to answer that. It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap.
That is not true. Europe wants guarantees for Ukraine, because that is pretty much equivalent of having guarantees for Europe. That is the whole point of supporting Ukraine - achieve security in Europe. I guess the best guarantee is for Ukraine to have a nuclear programe of its own? Missiles 500 km from Moscow? If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor
Well, that may or may not happen. At the current pace, Ruzzia would need years to achieve even the most modest goals, while loosing troops, money, irreplaceable assets, refineries and, if secondary sanctions like to ones applied to India spread... 50% of buyers. Yes according to Ukrainian constitution Zelenskiy's term ended on March 2024. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics and make wild assumptions to interpret it otherwise. Sure Zaluzhnyi can become a president and it might be better for Russia to keep Zelenskiy, but that's besides the point that Ukrainian constitution is clear about presidential term, and unlike Ukrainian parliament it does NOT extend presidential term during martial's law. Religion is not a problem, religion that we don't control and doesn't serve our purposes is. classic. Russia demonstrated that encroachments on it's remaining sphere of influence is an existential threat for Russia. Everyone is well aware of this, and this is exactly the root cause of this whole thing. West tried to go for the final kill but got pushed back. 2013 Yanukovych is in power in Ukraine and no one in Europe cares or blinks an eye, now all major EU leaders are a cheerleader team for Ukraine, suddenly saying how Ukraine is critical to Europe. Secretary of State Rice, Merkel's security adviser Heusgen and others stood at a bar table. Russia by itself is just one country, the American argued, according to participants, whereas Russia plus Ukraine and Belarus is an empire. She stressed that such an empire, once established, would once again seek to dominate Europe, and that the Kremlin would again pursue an aggressive foreign policy. Europe just doesn't have the resources to sustain itself or to manufacture products for export. So it needs to import resources, and it needs to import resources at such a prices that would keep the final product competitive on the global market. Europe needs to either outsource all of it's manufacturing to regions with cheaper resources and transition to providing services or it needs the leverage of Russian resources. Subsidizing manufacturing to work on American freedom gas is just not sustainable long term. Merkel was the only one that managed to keep everything together. When she resigned AfD was at 11%, now AfD is at 24% and it's inevitable that Merz will only continue dropping. This is the real existential thread for Germany and Europe, what genius figured that it's worth risking this over Ukraine is beyond me, but then again once you become a puppet and puppeteer decides to take care of himself first you won't have an option. Germany is now screwed, and if they try to outlaw a party that every 4th person supports, it'll get even worse very fast.  Concept of maximizing short term profit is secondary to long term national interests for independent countries. Even new companies realized this and are operating in red for many years and only turn profit once they monopolize the market and consumer has little choice. Everyone realizes that there are no free cookies. Yes if factories move from Germany to Hungary they're still in EU, clearly it's a net negative for Germany and positive for Hungary, but a zero net for EU. The HCOB Germany Manufacturing PMI was revised slightly lower to 49.1 in July 2025 from a preliminary of 49.2 and compared to 49 in June, continuing to point to a deterioration in manufacturing business conditions. anything bellow 50 is a contraction, meaning worse off than before. And that's the power house of Europe Mississippi, the poorest state in the United States, is close to surpassing Europe's largest economy Germany's GDP per capita.Are you not aware that Russia negotiated terms of oil/gas sales individually with each country and not with EU as a whole? And that's another reason why EU leaders went to Washington. Once sanctions are lifted guess what happens when both Orban and Merz go back to negotiate the terms on Russian resources for their factories. China cares about Russian price of oil much less than EU does. Meaning both prioritize their long term interests over short term "sale", but China has a much longer horizon. Only now Russia will get an option, and EU will loose the leverage of being the largest buyer. If Ukraine won't be neutral and won't have limits on the size of its army it will indeed be a very hard, if not impossible, pill for Russia to swallow. Once again with claims that guarantees of NATO's article 5 suddenly mean nothing for Europe and somehow now suddenly everything depends on Ukraine which no one cared about in 2013. Russia will collapse before it lets Ukraine get nuclear weapons (while not being in Russia's sphere). War has been going for 3.5yrs are you saying Russia can't keep this up for just 12 more months to achieve it's goals on a battlefield? And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense Edit: Wondering why we aren't hearing much from Boris Johnson? Did all Ukrainian border guards receive his picture to make sure to not let him into the country, so he won't be able to torpedo another agreement? |
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Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone ^^^^ Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, r eturn of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine. Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed. We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started. Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic. If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia. But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it. I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not). Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine. New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them. No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading. But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation. The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024. If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia. Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order. EU needs Russia's resources, if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms. At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable. But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great. Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end. Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that, and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter. It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap. If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor |
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Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone ^^^^ Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, return of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine. Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved. de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed. We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started. Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic. If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia. But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it. |
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What exactly was discussed in the high stakes meeting and what was agreed remains a mystery.
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Trump touted his “fantastic relationship” with his Russian counterpart and branded the meeting “extremely productive.”
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Referring to Putin, he continued: “He's a strong guy, he's tough as hell and all of that, but the meeting was a very warm meeting between two very important countries, and it's very good when they get along.”
Earlier in the day, Trump rolled out the red carpet for Putin, greeting him warmly before they jumped into his U.S. limousine, dubbed “The Beast.”
At the end of their joint speech to press Putin suggested the pair next meet on his home turf: Moscow.
“That’s an interesting one, I’ll get a little heat on that one,” Trump replied. “But I could see it possibly happening.”
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Despite the flack, Trump told Hannity he believed on a scale of one to 10, the meeting was a 10. “It’s good when two big powers get along, especially when they’re nuclear powers.
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Host Sean Hannity asked what advice he would give to Zelensky and Trump replied: “Make the deal. Gotta make a deal.”
Trump says Biden handed Ukraine money like it was ‘candy’
“I think we're pretty close to it. And look, Ukraine has agreed to it," Trump told Sean Hannity during a Friday appearance on “Hannity.” "Maybe they'll say no because Biden handed out money like it was candy. And Europe gave them a lot of money. You know, we gave $350 billion. Europe gave them much less, but still a lot. $100 billion.”
Putin thanked Trump for the “friendly” tone of the conversation they had on Friday and said Russia and the United States should “turn the page and go back to cooperation.”
He praised Trump as someone who “has a clear idea of what he wants to achieve and sincerely cares about the prosperity of his country, and at the same time shows understanding that Russia’s has its own national interests.”
“I expect that today’s agreements will become a reference point not only for solving the Ukrainian problem, but will also mark the beginning of the restoration of businesslike, pragmatic relations between Russia and the U.S.,” Putin said. Well, the trap for Zelenskyy is set, he either accepts the proposal and then has to explain why it took over 3 years and so many lost lives to accept the same outcome to Ukrainians, or not accept it then as Trump hinted he'll loose funding from USA and eventually even more territory. But he's a good comic, maybe he can somehow spin it as a positive and convince Ukrainians that all of this was not in vain because they protected Poland Would be interesting to see how UK, France and Germany will explain this all to their electorate too   |
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