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81  Economy / Scam Accusations / Counter Evidence for the BCB thread on: December 31, 2012, 01:18:23 AM
BCB has treated me in a hostile manner from the beginning. As he's locked his thread I will lock this one and provide evidence here to counter his claims.

#5 is a great example of BCB's lies. He claims EskimoBob lost money as a result of being a NYAN.A investor. This is patently false. I am handling the NYAN.A claims right now and EskimoBob will recieve his full value just like everyone else. Why is BCB lying about me? This is central; investors did not lose money BECAUSE of what I said. And NYAN.A investors in particular lost nothing. I quote, from shareholder letter #39:

"After buying back almost 1,500 bicoins worth of NYAN-related securities over the past 2 weeks (900 NYAN and almost 600 NYAN.A and NYAN.B..."

When NYAN.A dipped down low because of EskimoBob and Puppet's initial accusations that I was insolvent and misrepresenting assets, I launched a campaign of buybacks where I spent 1,500 bitcoins buying back NYAN, NYAN.A and NYAN.B shares. I did this partly out of my own personal money to support the bid price at 0.99. Now, I am in themidst of processing NYAN.A claims. How is it possible to state that EskimoBob lost money? He didn't. This is a lie that is being told in order to defame me.

I have spent months of my life on this crap already. The only reason I am even bothering with this is because BCB is apparently respected in the community.

Following is a complete list of the things BCB has stated about me and a response.

"vampire has responded that:
Usgai deleted the agreements and all statements.
Vampire claims to  prove that the financial statements are fraudulent."

In this post BCB states that vampire has said that I deleted all my statements, yet he claims to prove that the financial statements are fraudulent, The quoted post says:
The spreadsheet uses a formula which uses the average of the 24h and 5 day averages* Not a scam.
*=max(fetchTicker(concatenate(A13), "t5davg"), fetchTicker(concatenate(A13), "t24havg"))/100000000

The problem with using this to state I misrepresented how I value the funds is that it is not supported by fact. The above quote was never used to advertise NYAN. It was used in a discussion where we were discussing how I valued NYAN. It was a mistake in wording. How do you know? Simple. I posted the formula in the same message, and I had also posted the formula in plaintext on the spreadsheet. There was no intent to deceive, contrary to what BCB is now claiming based on this evidence.

For more information including a timeline and screenshots of the actual BMF spreadsheet, please see:

2. In the following post from above,
"FROM: ianbakewell
"...Usagi has gone back and deleted nearly 1000 of their old posts. Many of these posts made statements that built confidence and caused me to invest into the assets run by Usagi.  In the resulting bullshit of Usagi swapping things around to make it look like they were not doing so bad after the pirate losses,  those statements were later proven to be false or were unhonoured. The stock prices collapse and I sold out at an extreme loss."

I've provided the NYAN contract and letters to shareholders on the forums. Ian has clearly failed in his duty to perform due dilligence. The contracts clearly state (in part):
III. 2. NYAN will act to balance it's ownership of NYAN.A, NYAN.B and NYAN.C by buying and selling shares.
III. 4. Nyancat Financial's operations and balance sheets will be made fully transparent to the public and backed up by signed statements from our backers where appropriate.

It's nice that Ian feels I lied to him about the status of the fund; but this does not make sense. The data had been online for several months before Ian and others suddenly felt "misled". You mean all this time, there was no problem, and as soon as the linked events occurred (linked) Ian suddenly hates me? What happened here is obvious. Ian bakewell attempted to demonize me out of his own vicious and scammy nature. Where's the evidence I lied to Ian? The onus is on you to provide actual evidence, not claims -- and not on me to attempt to prove a negative by spending 100 hours combing through 1000 deleted posts.

3. from
to which I responded:
So I just heard from usagi  he indicates:

"the spreadsheets were published on, which was a wordpress site which I have deleted. So it is unrecoverable. "

* admitting to deleting material information.

Why did you say that when I provided reasonable evidence that the material information a) was republished by me, accurately, and b) is in possession by a large number of other people in the form of lists by nefario?

he says he "can't remember" specific facts.

The fact in question is whether or not the contention was between publishing an average value in the spreadsheet, forum thread and shareholder letter and accidentally referring to it as a max function, OR publishing it as max and accidentally referring to it as average. Do I need to point out that the fact in question was already linked to you by vampire? You are coloring what I said.

he admits to incorrectly valuing his assets:

"I mis-spoke about the nature of the formula. I think I said "average" instead of "max" "

No I did not. Why did you say I admitted to incorrectly valuing the assets when you know the context of what was said? You are making it look like I engaged in a campaign to promote my stock as being valued by avg (or max) in opposition to how it was actually valued. That's not right.

He admits that while he was representing  the value of his investments in the future - if  the investor how liquidated their asset would actually receive less value.:

"The claim was that if someone wanted to liquidate their investments, that would be the price they could get. This is true "

It's not looking good for usagi.

Why did you say it's not looking good when I told you that this is how all funds operate? Are you aware that no fund in the world ever buys at asks and then reports value at bid? Do you understand how a mutual fund operates? When we buy x shares of a security at 1 bitcoin per share, we do not turn around and immediately value them at bid. That's crazy. I used formulas that STABILIZED the value of the fund so that when we made purchases it would not adversely affect the price of the fund. This is normal. This is how an IPO works. You are proposing, are you not, that if we sold 100 shares in IPO, then immediately the other 9,900 shares would be worth less than 1 btc per share merely because we now must value the company at bid price.

That is not how investing works, that is not how markets work, and that is not how mutual funds work. I demand that you publish what I have said here if you are to remain impartial in this case. It is not a crime or a fraud to value stocks at what we paid for them or by analysis especially since that was written into the contract, of which all investors were made aware.

I don't yet understand why you are misrepresenting what I said in this way. If you are going to say, for example, the quotes you said -- but ignore the explanation -- you are doing people a disservice.

Furthermore the spreadsheet also cautioned investors that all values were estimates. Are you familiar with fair value accounting? Here:
In accounting and economics, fair value is a rational and unbiased estimate of the potential market price of a good, service, or asset. It takes into account such objective factors as:

    acquisition/production/distribution costs, replacement costs, or costs of close substitutes
    actual utility at a given level of development of social productive capability
    supply vs. demand

and subjective factors such as

    risk characteristics
    cost of and return on capital
    individually perceived utility

Please note words "potential market price" (future value)
"utility...cost of and return on capital" (capital gains but also dividends)
also note: "subjective factors".

The fact that I didn't value long term holdings at bid price is actually a GOOD thing.

I did not admit to misrepresenting value, incorrectly valuing assets, or deleting material information. I demand you post a retraction of that if you are going to remain in charge of a fair assessment.

You need to understand finance and accounting practices to understand that I was doing a GOOD job and not a BAD job valuing assets. The fact that deprived or vampire don't really know anything about finance or accounting does not mean it looks bad for me. It means they don't really know anything about finance or accounting.

Additionally I have posted the NYAN contracts and shareholder letters as directly requested by BCB here:

Therefore, it is wrong for BCB to have said I admitted to incorrectly valuing funds. For one, the correct way had not been established so it is impossible to have valued funds incorrectly. Secondly the entire point was to establish I did not believe I was incorrectly valuing funds.

"Usagi claims to be following general accounting/inventing principals in valuing his assets and quotes a length the  Financial Accounting Standards Board which states in part:

"While internal inputs are used, the objective remains the same: estimate fair value using assumptions a third party would consider in estimating fair value."

However numerous third parties with access to Usagi's valuations claim that he was NOT fairly valuing his assets.  So again this is an example of Usagi using information "subjectively" to suit his position and omitting or ignoring relevant points that counter his position.

Usagi continues to provide NO FACTUAL information in his defense and when he does make statements they often end up supporting his detractors claims."

a) I conducted two public and at least two private interviews. One with Garr of Cognitive and one with GigaVPS of Gigamining. I'll post those interviews later in this thread, I should have them logged in my e-mail. In these four interviews it is obvious I am interested in many of the kinds of questions a third party would be expected to ask. I will also post internal company data that shows I was evaluating miners based on their published data as well as any information I could dig up by contacting the asset issuer. Additionally you can check the NYAN letters to shareholders, as published, for additional proof. I will also post, where I can, letters from prospective analysis which I attempted to hire because my workload was a little large. All of this proves my intent was to fairly value securities as a third party would. But to be clear, the document BCB is quoting does not merely say "a third party", it states "...estimate fair value using assumptions a third party would consider in estimating fair value." It is therefore a little redundant; the principle of fair value as defined does in fact include perceived value and subjective forms of valuation as stated in the document we're quoting ( The documents I intend to provide, as stated above, are:

-- interview with Garr of COGNITIVE
-- interview with GigaVPS of GIGAMINING
-- interview with friedcat of ASICMINER
-- interview with Juan of BTC-MINING
-- internal documents showing we were performing sensible analysis based on hardware, etc.
-- e-mails showing we were doing analysis and/or trying to hire additional analysis, whose quality of work was assumed to be at least as great as our own *i.e. we did not ask anyone to scam or lie, just do a normal job as we were doing*.

Please see another post (post #2?) for these documents.
Please note that at the time of posting the above, BCB was in reciept of the NYAN contract and shareholder letters, and the reposted BMF holdings. What he said (I had continued to not provide any evidence) is a lie. He had directly requested this and only this information to me in PM:
Usgai [...]
Unless you provide facts such as
Lawyer info
Etc I will continue to call you a liar and I will request a scammer tag.

I am asking for facts and evidence and you can't or don't want to provide it. Yet others have no problem proving the facts in your own words. I'm sorry. It is not looking food for you.

EskimoBob has responded in the other thread.  He is the second investor who claims to have lost fund do to Usgai's inaccurate valuations.

Quote from: EskimoBob on December 30, 2012, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: BCB on December 30, 2012, 05:22:40 PM
Hello Eskimo bob. Good to hear from you as you name has come up quite frequently. So far usgai has been accused of and evidence has been provided that he:

Misvalued assets
Lied about assets owned
Tried to use company assets to pay off a personal loan
Deleted material evidence supporting this activity to cover up this activity
And refuses to supply specific facts to support his claims and instead spAms the threads

There was no evidence provided here and apparently no evidence provided in PM to BCB, by EskimoBob. These are just the same claims EB has been making for months. Where's the evidence?

1.  Did you lose any funds as as result of usgai misrepresenting his various businesses and assets?
2. What facts can you provide that may support or refute these claims


In the above response, BCB seems to get this and asks for clarification; i.e. did EskimoBob really lose any money?

In response, EskimoBob writes:

All the fact are in the forum posts by me and multiple other people, who git fed up with constant BS.

Misvalued assets - yes
Tried to use company assets to pay off a personal loan - I can not recall at the moment all the details. Dig the forum, it's all here Smiley
Deleted material evidence supporting this activity to cover up this activity - yes. This has been proved in forums to ad nauseum
And refuses to supply specific facts to support his claims and instead spAms the threads - yes. This has been proved in forums to ad nauseum

This is not proof. It's just a statement with "I cannot recall the details, look it up, I promise it's there". Ok, so where's the link? How dare BCB accuse me without any proof!

1.  Did you lose any funds as as result of usgai misrepresenting his various businesses and assets? - yes, because information published (now deleted by usagi) was constantly wrong - that was discovered later.

2. What facts can you provide that may support or refute these claims - it's all in the forum post.

People quoted me. I was involved in dozens of discussions. If you claim I deleted it, where are the surviving quotes from responses? Using the fact I deleted posts because I was pissed off is a convenient excuse to label me. Sorry, the absence of proof is not proof. The onus is on EskimoBob to provide a link or BCB to confirm a link. Expecting me to attempt to prove a negative is unrealistic. Even if I agreed to have my posts undeleted (which I did, in principle -- I said any post related to the scam accusaion against me had my full permission to be undeleted if possible) it is not on me to go digging through the undeleted posts. It's BCB's job if he wants it. Again, I cannot prove a negative. "Screenshots or it didn't happen".

Usgai also repeatedly states:

 "...the contract clearly stated I would provide value through analysis.."

which I assume to mean that his analysis allows him to value his assets even if his analysis is wrong  - which others including Usagni have pointed out was wrong not only due to faulty analysis but also due to bad math or incorrect of calculating formulas.

Does that make his inaccurate valuations ok.  I would think not.  

This is again an example of Usagi shirking his fiduciary responsibility.

This is a joke. BCB has stated he assumes that "added value" means I can lie. What? BCB does not understand English?

Added value in financial analysis of shares is to be distinguished from value added. Used as a measure of shareholder value, calculated using the formula:
Added Value = Price that the product/service is sold at - cost of producing the product

In short, added value means BMF's NAV should be higher than a mere summation of our assets by any formula, for several reasons; the risk analysis I did, the hardware analysis of companies, the interviews, the shareholder letters, the ability to partake in bulk orders like we did with ASICMINER, etc. We were not an index fund. That is merely what my job was, my stated duty as the manager. I intended to do analysis and value the stocks as I saw fit. Of course I would only invest in stocks which I believed were undervalued! I'm not an idiot that I would keep stocks on the books if I felt they were long term losers! And I did in fact do better than bonds like GIGAMINING or YABMC. While they lost 65% or more of their value, BMF only lost 50% in the mining crash. That is a fact.

BCB writes "this is again an example of Usagi shirking his fiduciary responsibility" because he has again stated I made inaccurate valuations. However, I haven't made inaccurate valuations! Where is the proof I have made inaccurate valuations? Do you understand what proof means? You have to show that I valued incorrectly by making it obvious how a correct valuation should be done. BCB has attempted and failed to do this. he has based his conclusion on the quote from "#3" above and possibly on the liquidation-value spreadsheets posted by puppet and eskimobob. However, his conclusion from #3 is that I admitted it therefore it must be true (all I did was state we used fair value accounting, that is not an admission of valuing incoreectly) and for the liquidation-value contention, I again quote the definition of fair value:

"Under US GAAP (FAS 157), fair value is the amount at which the asset could be bought or sold in a current transaction between willing parties, or transferred to an equivalent party, other than in a liquidation sale."

That it was proposed at all that I was misleading investors by publishing a NAV "which was not at bid prices" is a complete joke.

Usagi Used Threats and intimidation to silence critics.

BCB is unable to read -- I quote my exact words in the above linked post:

"I'm still thinking how to proceed but whatever decision will involve a community-approved decision, ..."
and in a clarification to EskimoBob here:
No, you're going to get something, just minus a community approved amount for the financial damages you've caused the company. There are other issues at stake here besides obvious financial damages such as the BAKEWELL contract -- for example, have you returned your double payment from Nefario? Why should I pay you full value for your shares when your actions have directly harmed every other shareholder of BMF? Why would I pay you for what you have already been paid for? This will be the gist of what I'll be going to the community with when I propose that you be docked a fair price for the damage you've caused."

It is quite clear I am not using intimidation or threats to silence my critics! It's well known EskimoBob cannot be silenced by any means!
I contend that it is false and misleading that BCB has stated I used intimidation to silence critics, and that his comparison of me to pirate was unfair and defamatory. As was his calling me "delusional" and a "liar" during the initial time of this case before he received such evidence from eskimobob and deprived.

"Usagi claims to have consulted and paid an "Internet defamation lawyer"  to investigate EskimoBob's Defination claims as part of his intimidation yet  he can not provide an invoice that this fee was paid nor even a name of he lawyer."
I have told BCB I had a telephone consultation with a lawyer and that it was unlikely that the lawyer would confirm any details of my consultation with him because I did not retain him and because it would violate the privilege I have when consulting with a lawyer. So far BCB has given me little reason to trust him and I don't want to start revealing personal details and the details of people I do business with to such a person. Also, the fact that I contacted a lawyer means nothing. So not sure where you're going with this. The fact is, I was accused of fraud and of committing crimes, and of being under investigation for crimes. If you do not get that this is illegal and it's only a matter of time and money to prosecute these people, you are completely unqualified to do any sort of arbitration.

"Deprived has pieced a time line from actual post of Usagi's attempt to misappropriate company assets.
The Case of the Vanishing Hardware"

Oh for FUCK SAKES. I sold my personal property single to jborkl and got a refund from BFL for the others. I'm in the process of handling claims. How can you state there is "vanishing hardware"? Based on what evidence? Stop lying about disappearing hardware. There is no dissappearing hardware and there is no timeline because there is no case. I got a refund and will return the money to BMF investors in due course. It makes me very angry that you have posted this without allowing me to make a response. You have treated me unfairly by taking Deprived at his word and yet refuse to take me at mine, and deny my evidence. You have stated I am guilty until proven innocent.

Bitforce Single 832 MH/s (Personal Property, output donated to BMF) Order #7650 Order date Sep. 10
BitForce Jalapeno 3.5 GH/s Order #7839 Order date Sep. 11, 2012
BitForce 'SC' Single 40 GH/s Order #7971 Order date Sep. 13, 2012
Bitforce Single 832 MH/s Order #8665 Order date Sep. 19, 2012
Bitforce Jalapeno 3.5 GH/s #8670 Order date Sep. 19, 2012

On 04/12/2012 10:46 AM, Tsukino Usagi wrote:
> Dear Butterfly Labs;
> Thanks for the update back in October re: my order no. 8665.
> I also have order numbers 8670, 7839, and 7971, the first two for
> bitforce jalapeno units and the third for a bitforce sc single.
> It's been a long time and while I realize there is a huge demand for
> these units, I no longer wish to purchase them due to what amounts to an
> act of god regarding my financial position. So I will make the following
> request, sil vous plais;
> Please let me know if I can cancel those three orders and get a refund
> in bitcoins (I will provide an address), or please give me an
> approximate date when my units can be shipped. Thank you very much!

Update: I found a list of the order numbers I made:

7650 <--- forgot I had this one, it's on my list.
8665 <--- has already arrived, thank you

In regards to the other four order numbers, I very much need to know if
I can cancel and get a refund or re-route shipping, and what the
approximate date is for shipping. I know you guys are probably swamped
but please answer as soon as you are able! Thank you.

Hi Tsukino,

I  see you have 2 Jalapenos (7839 and 8670) and one Single SC (7971). The
other orders were for FPGA Singles which have shipped to you. I can send
you a refund through BitPay, but I need a BTC wallet address to send the

Kind regards,


Hi Usagi,

I think you should have all your money refunded now.


Dear Jody; I can't seem to find the tracking number for the second single. If you have it on file can you please send it to me? The tracking number for the first single was Tracking # xx xxx xxx xxx xx and was sent to me by "Alicia". Thank you for your consideration.

The order numbers are:
8665 <--- has already arrived, thank you

My statement: "Suddenly 2 FPGAs (on the 18th that was the only pre-orders and they had no hardware) has become "a few FPGA and ASIC singles"".
Is BCB really trying to indict me for speaking about the hardware in general terms? I can't imagine why he has put any stock in Deprived's constructed bullshit.

deprived and  makomk have posted evidence that Usagi mislead his investors to lower the share price of his assets then bought them back at a lower price.

deprived and  makomk have posted evidence that Usagi mislead his investors to lower the share price of his assets then bought them back at a lower price.

They posted evidence? Evidence that I misled investors TO (with the intent of) lowering the share price, AND THEN buying them back at a lower price?

No. First, nowhere in Deprives post is any information about me misleading investors NOR is it mentioned I purchased shares back. it seems to be entirely about claims he has made that are unsubstantiable by him -- such as what was on CPA's balance sheet, or irrelevant quotes from unrelated threads, such as the TECSHARE scammer thread. For example:

"I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under." - claims on August 18th CPA may go under (or is it some other insurance company he runs?)"

This is from a PRIVATE MESSAGE that was sent to TECSHARE. The TECSHARE case is not related to this, and this was NOT an advertisement to shareholders, or even public. The TECSHARE case has been very well documented -- I was defrauded by TECSHARE. Even though TECSHARE has recieved full payment for his art, I have not recieved any art!!!!

Then, the most unbelievable thing: BCB quotes:
But on Aug 23rd says to CPA investors:
"In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default." - it will remain very solvent.

Does this look like I was trying to crash the value of my company? Unbelievably, BCB has used a public statement by me that we are solvent and we will not default, as proof I was trying to crash the company. This is incomprehensible to me, how he could have gotten this so wrong.
82  Economy / Scam Accusations / Onus & Remedy in Scam Accusation Threads on: December 29, 2012, 03:24:00 PM
Dear Scam Accusation Forum Connoisseurs;

As many of you are no doubt aware there are quite a few -- for lack of a better term -- pathetic -- scam accusations floating around. I'd like to make this post to raise the general level of awareness of what makes a good -- and bad -- scam accusation, and how to tell the difference.

First, as a user, you must use critical thinking and evaluate whether or not a scam accusation has merit. Here is a guideline; if a scam accusation fails any one of these points, it does not have merit:

1. There must be a clear victim.
If no one and nobody was affected by what you think is a scam, there is no scam -- period. An example is someone saying something like "I will sell you a bitcoin for $500". No one has taken the offer, been misled, or coerced into anything -- therefore it is not a scam. It would be different if said post claimed bitcoins were worth $500, that would be fraud. But in the absence of a victim -- i.e. someone who was defrauded or lied to -- there is no scam.

2. The ability to justify damages must be present for any scam accusation to have merit.
This is similar to the above, but it separates the mere act of lying from actually scamming. Example: If I told you I was from France (and that was a lie) that is not in and of itself scamming. If you then perform some action which causes you to lose money as a result of what I said, that's not damages either. I may very well have been from france; I did not cajole you into doing anything, so I did not damage you. The concept of damages is tied to that of the victim; first, there must be a victim, then damages must be established. Inability to do this means no scam took place.

On the other hand if I told you I was from France as justification for, or to convince you to perform a secondary action (such as, claiming that a black hole bitcoin address is my payment address in order to cause someone damages) then it's clear that there is a victim, and that the lie I told was for the purpose of creating a victim and then, secondarily, causing damages to that victim.

3. A remedy must be present for any scam accusation.
There are two kinds of remedy, as I understand the term. One is the remedy which must be present before the proposed scam can occur -- it is the "line" which one crosses. A great example is an asset issuer transferring shares he does not own to himself, using those shares to affect a vote, and then returning the shares. There was a clear remedy in that case -- he didn't have to do that. He made a choice. The actual "scam" is easy to be identified. There's no question on what happened. OTOH, if someone bought a car, and someone else stole that car, it's not the fault of the buyer (from an insurance standpoint, for example). Or if mining bonds crash, any random asset issuer is not to blame for market factors outside of their control.

The second kind of remedy which must be present is a kind of direct remedy the accused can perform after the fact to have the scammer tag removed. If this is not able to be proposed, then it's probably unfair/without merit to give someone a scammer tag.

We're not talking about someone with an incurable psychosis who committs mass murder -- we're talking about a bitcoin or dollar value assigned in damages. So the very least of a remedy which must be present is the complete repayment (plus interest where applicable) of damages. Each case would be different. In the case of fraud, where someone is intentionally deceived for financial gain (i.e. trashing someone's rep or company and then investing in it when it crashes), said person may also be requested to issue retractions, apologies, and repay damages amounting to that which is reasonably assumed to have been lost via lost business contracts, inability to operate normally, etc.

I know this is a little technical but the concepts of VICTIM, DAMAGES and REMEDY are extremely important. If we are going to parade ourselves around as judges, we have to be fair. If we cannot remain fair and impartial and are going to go on a witch hunt, we need to at least admit that's what we are doing -- treating people unfairly and just causing trouble.

In any scam accusation thread the Onus is ALWAYS on the accuser to provide sufficient evidence. We must adhere to "innocent until proven guilty", lest we become a ship of fools jumping at the slightest sound.
83  Economy / Goods / GOLD AND SILVER FOR SALE! on: December 28, 2012, 06:43:25 AM

1 x 1/2 oz. gold coin. (delivered!)
2 x 1/4 oz. gold coin (delivered!)
5 x 1/10 oz. gold coin (delivered!)
12 x 1/2 oz silver coin (4 delivered!, 8 still in transit!)
22 x 1 oz silver coin (2 delivered, 20 still in transit!)
1 x 2oz silver coin (delivered!)

28 x 1/2 oz First Majestic Business Strike Rounds (2012)

I am selling for SPOT, and free shipping anywhere in the world.
At current prices that's ~2.05 per ounce.

The whole deal then (14 oz) would be 28.7 BTC.

All coins/bars are in visually perfect condition. Pictures available at

I am not responsible for VAT or any import duties you will face, then again I will not write "gold coinz inside!@#" all over the box. I paid such taxes myself to import these to my destination, so likely will you.
84  Economy / Scam Accusations / Ian Bakewell on: December 26, 2012, 01:28:48 PM
I made a scam accusation against EskimoBob, in which I posted IRC logs and several witnesses came forward to confirm what I said was true. Maged allowed EskimoBob to derail the thread, and said that I had made dishonest statements. Ian Bakewell read those comments and decided to back out of a contract with a no cancellation clause. In order to do this, Ian Bakewell threatened me, lied to me, defrauded CPA and attempted to defraud his own investors.

Ian Bakewell broke a signed contract with CPA. We had a public contract which he signed in his asset thread. Ian was spotty with payments but managed to pay 4 btc. One day he sent me a letter stating quite clearly that his company had financial trouble and could no longer afford to make payments. He himself offered to make half payments or reduced payments until such time as he could afford to pay the full amount. I agreed. A few days later he sent another e-mail stating he could no longer keep his contract and would be forced to break it. I told him I understood his position but that due to the structure of the contract I could not return the bitcoins to him. He immediately blew up and threatened that if I did not return the bitcoins to him, he would "drag my name through the mud". After some back and forth I informed him I would require a shareholder motion before returning the funds as a dividend. He refused and begain issuing malicious libel against me; for example he stated I was attempting to clawback the funds. he stated I was breaking the contract (I was keeping the contract!) He stated that when I said I would return the money I meant "to him" (I did not, please see the contract). He also began attacking me in other theads. He took potshots against me in many other threads and was a contributing factor in the troll campaign against me. To this day he continues to mock me and take potshots against me. I feel the time has come this must stop, and I have a little free time tonight, so I am finally typing this up.

I request that Ian Bakewell be given the scammer tag for:
1. Defrauding CPA and CPA's investors by backing out of a contract in a hostile manner;
2. For lying about me, threatening me (in short-- for blackmailing me into acquiescing to his demands)
3. For attempting to defraud his investors, by reclaiming funds under which contract stated would be returned to his invetsors
4. For issuing libel and slander against me, which has caused the value of my companies to decline and has harmed my shareholders.

1. (* quoted in post #2 below)
Ian lied to me about his financial position in BAKEWELL and asked me to reduce his payment. A few days later he said he had to break the contract.
He then tried to drag my name thru the mud. Read the above link. it's quite clear I stuck to my contract and he was a total asshole to me. here are some of the other lies he told about me:

---"I would then like to restart this with a larger initial contribution and a payment plan based on dividend income once half of my ipo is cleared out."
This is clearly a lie based on his later stated reasons for breaking the contract. He was trying to trick me.

---"Wants the shareholders to be paid in an attempt to claw back, as they hold some BAKEWELL shares that would get the divvy."
The contract clearly stated the money would be returned to shareholders. Read the thread, people were agreeing with me.

2. (ibid)
"I do want the money back, my shareholders do agree, please pay:  1Q1k2uTUZ1ZSSufH2w9xnCnPPzC1QmreEa"
No shateholder motion was issued or voted on at that time. He lied.

"Long live those trolls."
Announces his recognition and supports the idea that he was just trolling against me to damage my reputation and crash my business.

No unresolved issues.

"I make all my financials available in the third post of my thread & I try to stay as current as possible."
Ian did not disclose for several weeks that he could not get his 7970's to work, thereby defrauding investors in his company who were lied to in order that Ian could get more BTC from sale of shares.

6. (** quoted in post #2 below)
In this post Ian presents himself as a scammer by his own words. Read the post.
A rough summary is as follows:

a. Ian says:
"In the time between founding BAKEWELL and creating the shareholder insurance fund with you, and now, the plan for BAKEWELL has dramatically changed.
BAKEWELL is a much smaller company than I initially thought I would launch with. We will continue to grow, but on a slow roll out basis.
At this time, the dividends from BAKEWELL will not cover the funds fee. As such I am not able to continue with it at this time.
I will be utilizing the small dividend I receive to aggressively grow BAKEWELL until the first half of the ipo is sold out.
I apologize for any inconvenience this causes you.

The fund currently has 4 BTC in it.
I would like to work out a refund of this from you, less a small management fee.
I would then like to restart this with a larger initial contribution and a payment plan based on dividend income once half of my ipo is cleared out."

b. I immediately respond:
"Working out a refund is not possible because this is an agreement designed to protect your shareholders in case of a default on your end."

c. Ian responds he is aware he CAN NOT cancel the contract in this way:
"I am aware of the contract clauses, particularly A4 and section D."

d. He gets caught in the lie here:

In this post Ian once again states that the "single largest factor" in losing his business was the troll threads. This is in sharp contrast to his statement in a).

7. Ian bakewell tries to blackmail me by threatening to "drag my name through the mud" if I did not do what he said:
Please note above (point 6c) that Ian was fully aware of the no cancellation clause when he lied to me and threatened me in this way.

8. Ian Bakewell voted NO on one of my securities on BTCT.CO and left nasty, damaging comments which surely affected other investors. As a result I have been forced to list with restrictions -- My companies can not trade. Therefore I am unable to establish market value and this will severely and adversely affect the value I am able to return to shareholders.

9. Ian Bakewell has not returned the 423 shares of BAKEWELL to me nor acknowledged any e-mails requesting the return of those shares.

In short, Ian has committed fraud on multiple fronts; he defrauded CPA, he lied in order to cancel his contract in full knowledge he could not do this and he attempted to slander me on the forums in order to get out of his contract. Secondly he is ripping off BMF for about 60 bitcoins (423 shares of BAKEWELL).

As is required by common law and intelligent people, I offer Ian Bakewell a remedy; if he issues a RETRACTION and an APOLOGY (these are two separate things) and returns the 423 shares of BAKEWELL, then I will consider the matter settled. If he does not then I want him to get a scammer tag until such time as he issues a retraction and an apology and returns the shares, The bitcoins (from the CPA contract) were returned to BAKEWELL shareholders so that is not an issue; this is about the likely irreparable damage he has done to my reputation and my businesses.

I only ask that this case be treated fairly. Thank you for your time.
85  Economy / Securities / NYAN/CPA final claims process (updated September 22nd, 2013) on: December 24, 2012, 06:41:53 PM
September 22nd, 2013:
1. CPA has paid out on every single contract it owed, and then gave all remaining assets to NYAN.A. It ceases to exist as of now. As the CPA contract said, it existed to expose investors to the rewards -- and risks -- of insurance. It's ironic that the main risk we faced was lack of support from the community considering how much we paid out (and, especially, to whom we paid out). But that's life, and this is the result of the choices those people made. It's far too late to play the blame game now.

2. NYAN.A is launching a motion to close which will expire on October 6th, 2013. You have two weeks to vote. There is no quorum because of the widespread nature of the announcement (, BTC-TC e-mail and news, reddit, and personal e-mail). Now is your chance to speak up and vote. I've done what I can, now let's vote on what to do next. Thanks and good luck.

3. BMF is thriving.

As a result of 1-2-3 this thread has no purpose anymore. Thanks and good luck!


This post will be updated with the latest information.
Last Update: June 9th. (please see

Steps in italic have already been completed.
Steps in bold are being actively worked on.

Written Jan 2, 2013:
1. I will acquire and liquidate the assets of BMF to the best of my ability and distribute the proceeds as dividend payments to shareholders of record.
(please see the BMF post for the latest update on what we have and what we paid so far).
2. I will simultaneously liquidate the assets of NYAN.A, NYAN.B, and NYAN,C, making payments to NYAN.A shareholders first until they receive 1 bitcoin per share.
3. If there is a significant amount of assets remaining which we are likely to be able to claim I will apply with burnside for a temporary extension of the end-of-january delisting date.
4. At what point any asset is delisted from BTC.CO I will send a GPG signed e-mail with my OTC key to every shareholder of record assigning them value-in-kind as as their proportion of all remaining assets. As an example, this is very likely to include Hashking debt for CPA holders, Matthew N. Wright debt for NYAN.A/B/C holders, and shares of UDN for BMF investors. This is a fair and equitable way to close the company quickly without forcing shareholders into a long relationship with me that nobody seems to want.
5. As the shares will at that time be delisted, this act will constitute the final payment shareholders will receive and will thus conclude my obligation to shareholders, as all assets will have been fairly distributed. Speak now or forever hold your peace. I'm open to alternate ideas.

Any questions?

Apr 4th -- We have recovered the 33,828 BitVPS shares for NYAN and will sell them for a fair price and pay out to shareholders. If you are a NYAN.A shareholder please expect some dividend payments soon!

Mar 1st -- Shareholders have rejected gift buyouts of some of my companies, so I paid burnside to go back and manually reverse the buyouts. Since my shareholders do not want a closure of my companies, no further money will be paid on these companies until they have been approved for trade and can resume operations. In NYAN's case this means I will buy back all shares at fair market value. In CPA's case as well. In BMF's case we will resume operations.

BMF assets and claim status (will be updated with the latest info)

Top Outstanding Issues:

BFLS.RIG (124 shares)
Dec 30 2012 - we sent a PM to Inaba requesting information.
Jan 4 2012 - Received confirmation of claim today or yesterday. payout address is now confirmed.
Jan 27th - Current auction bid is 2.1 BTC total.
Mar 1st -- was liquidated in auction and paid out.
June -- To date, yochdog/inaba have ignored repeated requests to allow me to change my bitcoin payment address, making this sale an administrative nightmare. Please guys, can we just get the payment address changed! Thanks.

BIF.5-10.MININGBOND (120 shares)
Jan 27th - Need contact info.
May 2013 - looks like it was probably a scam?

BAKEWELL (432 shares on GLBSE + 500 shares on BitFunder)
Apr 4th - No response from Nefario but Ian Bakewell is now a scammer after ripping OTHER PEOPLE off on their bakewell shares now, too. We'll go after him later.
Jan 04 2012 - I will not pursue this again until I get an e-mail from James (Nefario) on this since it's impossible to determine what happened.
Jan 01 2012 - I have sent an e-mail to James McCarthy requesting confirmation of our holding in BAKEWELL.
Jan 01 2012 - Ian responds and says that there was another user with 430 shares on the list (!!!) that user received their shares on BTCT.CO, and sold them.
Dec 29 - Ian Bakewell claims we did not have any shares. I found this odd since I claimed anonymously.
April (or so) - Ian Bakewell is now a scammer. We reserve the right to claim the complete amount of shares we held both from GLBSE and BITFUNDER.
We started a thread for going after him (he's our next target after Brendio). The situation remains unresolved. We will update later as new information is recieved.

BITCOINRS (2,000 shares)
Jan 01 2012 - I have sent an e-mail to James McCarthy requesting confirmation of our holding in BITCOINRS.
Jan 27th update - BitcoinOz has confirmed he (still) did not receive a shareholder list from Nefario. The shares are still in nowheres-ville.[/size]
May: Burnside has revealed (and this has since been corroborated by looking up bitcoinoz's posts) that BitcoinOZ gave Burnside a list of shares that was reconstructed by hand. The implication is that BitcoinOZ knew we owned 2,000 shares and decided not to pay us. This would explain the 180 degree turn he pulled back when GLBSE closed -- he had decided not to pay us and justify it by jumping on the usagi is a scammer bandwagon. We are still owed these shares.

quote author=Bitcoin Oz link=topic=133168.msg1482497#msg1482497 date=1359265631]
quote author=usagi link=topic=133168.msg1482060#msg1482060 date=1359248467]

. We're not on the list of BITCOINRS (fancy that).

Nefario has disapeared and has never given out a shareholder list for the asset and BITCOINRS has never appeared on a public list that got its info back from  glbse.

I can neither hand out shares or pay any value out when there is no way to tell who owns what. Paying out one shareholder even if I know they own the shares isnt fair either. Unless Nefario miraculously decides to do the right thing theres nothing I can do and I cant preference one shareholder over another.

I dont exactly know wtf Im supposed to do about it and I cant exactly send someone to break nefarios legs to ensure he does the right thing.

As I own most of the shares personally Ive written off the entire asset because obviously nefario decided to screw me over. Most of the money lost here is mine and Ive lost a lot more than anyone else so we are all in the same boat.

Im sure Im not the only asset issuer in this situation.

Accepted/Held for BMF (this section to be moved into the BMF post).

COGNITIVE (60 shares) (Market Value: 60 shares asking ~0.59/share for ~35.4 btc)
Claimed and in the BTC.CO account, awaiting processing after we calculate total net asset value.
Jan 12 - confirmation/update - shares are up for sale on btc-tc since a couple weeks ago.
(note--covered out-of-pocket then sold over a period of 6 months)

JAH (725 shares) (Market Value: 725 shares asking ~0.14/share for ~101.5 btc)
Just got contacted by the rastaminer. We have claimed the shares and outstanding dividends on Bitfunder.
"You may choose to receive your fair share of JAH as a bmf holder or get liquidated. We need to calculate NAV first though."
Jan 12 - update, shares were given to us on Bitfunder a couple weeks ago.
(note--covered out-of-pocket then sold over a period of 6 months)

ABM (210 shares) (Market Value: 210 shares asking ~0.14/share for ~29.4 btc)
Shares have been claimed on Bitfunder and will be liquidated or assigned as value in kind once we calculate NAV.
(note--covered out-of-pocket then sold over a period of 6 months)

ZETA-MINING (50 shares) (Recieved 5 btc, expected 5 btc)
Liquidated by Zefir:
Thank you very much Zefir, for doing the right thing and processing our claim so quickly. We wish you success in any future endeavor.
The 5btc has been transferred to the account on and will be distributed properly once NAV is established)

MERGEDMINING (92 shares) was contacted before deadline and has not responded yet.
Dec 29 2012 - second e-mail sent to likuidxd.
Jan 2 2013 - PM sent to "likuidxd" on the forum requesting a response.
Jan 2  2013 - Our claim was processed without using the info from GLBSE. I had not seen it on the claims address for that reason. We were paid 2.944 BTC in tx 7b968696a3405fc2913c19d3f68eacd0b5f00385bb82a03f2e2f13bf24d46cac. Moving this to completed claims and scheduling payout now.

RSM (6240 shares claimed)
Claim confirmed with Matthew Holt. Dec.19th: Last we heard he will list on BTC.CO and we will get shares there. Awaiting.
Jan 6 2013 - Shares listed and claimed on BTC-TC. There appears to be an error, we have over 6,000 shares. We should have around 200 to 500 max.
(note--covered out-of-pocket then sold over a period of 6 months)

BTC-MINING (300 shares)
Dec 6 2012 Namjies sent us an e-mail stating he received and accepted our claim and payout address. we are listed at
Jan 12 2013 - Shares received on btc-tc and put up for sale.
(note--this security was sold at auction)

BTC-BOND (4799 shares)
Dec 31 2012 - We received an e-mail asking us to confirm payout address. We have done so and are listed on here: as holding 4799 shares.
"We received a final shareholder list from GLBSE. ... Your payment for your shares will be processed upon confirmation that there is no issue with the amount shown."
Jan 12 2013 - all shares sold for ~43 btc.

YABMC (30 shares)
Jan 27 - Relisted on BitFunder. We have no dividends, but at least we can sell the shares. . . . for 0.02 or so. We'll post a sale price later.
(note--this security was sold at auction)

NASTYMINING (110 shares, or seats)
Jan 27 - All seats sold for ~32BTC.

DMC (1300 shares, claimed on BitFunder, unknown value)
Jan 27 - Estimated value is 0.1 per share based on holdings of 1,000 ASICMINER and 1000 BTC-MINING. We have the shares on BitFunder. Have sold 300. Will post an update after auction closes.
(note: sold on bitfunder)

JTME (170 shares)
Jan 7 2013 - "Each share will receive .1818 BTC for the liquidation payout." so, expected value here is 30.906 BTC.
Jan 27th - was paid out last week and sent to shareholders already, just posting this as an update.

UDN (1000 shares)
No news -- will attempt to contact the asset issuer shortly. Asset appears to have been a scam. We'll try chasing him down in the trust later.
Mar 1st - asset was a scam.

FPGAMINING (635 shares)
We have the asset issuer's e-mail but don't have any news to report at the moment.
Jan 27th - Current auction bid is 0.127. No response from e-mails.
Mar 1st - asset was a scam.
(note--this security was sold at auction)

ASICMINER (10 shares)
Dec 22 2012
"We received (again) the revised version of shareholders' information from GLBSE." (the complete lists from Nefario)
Friedcat stated earlier he will contact us at the claim address (ref.
Jan 10 2013 - friedcat confirmed in PM we own the shares and can sell them/trade them/whatever.
Jan 27th update  current auction bid is 0.42 per share. Wow! Keep the bidding going on this one.
Mar 1st -- shares were sold last month and divs paid out.

BITVPS (33,848 shares)
Apr 4th -- We are in possesion of ther 33,828 (not 33848) shares, but trading is currently frozen on this security.
Mar 1st -- brendio contacted us last week and has confirmed our shares, but has not yet transferred his shares to us on BTC-TC.
Feb - brendio has claimed his shares on BTC-TC.
March After a final push to contact Brendio he has returned our shares to us (and to everyone). Mission accomplished, team!
March-June -- 10,000 shares sold @ approx. 0.0067/share.

GIGAMINING (10 shares)
GigaVPS has stated he will not return value in any way unless we provide KYC/AML. We refuse. Please note under U.S. Law, you may transfer beneficial ownership of your GIGAMINING shares without GigaVPS's permission, and you may attempt to sue if he refuses to honor his shares.

BMMO (3775 shares)
you announced we were trading in several threads, we traded,  my bmf and cpa shares for the bmmo,  and yes i am on your list, you sent me a claim for both CPA and BMF.  yeah its nothing personal, we traded, the end.  later usagi.

BTCMC (165 shares)
Jan 27th - Current auction bid is 0.05 total.
Mar 1st -- was liquidated in auction and paid out.

Part II: Claims Process Feedback
This is all of the positive feedback I recieved during the claims process while closing down NYAN, CPA and BMF. I have to date not received a single negative comment in feedback.

BMF claimant #24
"I appreciate the hard work you are putting in to return as much value as possible to everyone."

BMF claimant #13
"Keep your time to solve the issue with the trading platforms, try to help you on the shares as a donation from me."

NYAN.A claimant #9
"Hi, Usagi Smiley ... Merry Christmas to you and your family Smiley)"

NYAN.A claimant #2
"I am grateful for your efforts to resolve this whole mess after the unexpected closure of GLBSE. I had nearly written off my original investment...If I can also manage to recover most of the BTC I had tied up in the NYAN assets, this would be very good news indeed."

NYAN.A claimant #13
"Thank you for your hard work, I really appreciate your doing the right thing."

NYAN.A claimant #22
"Thanks Usagi, it was a pleasure doing business with you. Will there be any final dividend for CPA?"

NYAN.A claimant #7
"Great, thanks.  I appreciate the professional way that you are handling this."
86  Economy / Securities / BMF/NYAN Proposed Auction Post (See Post #29) on: December 24, 2012, 03:17:53 PM

For the latest news...

Fast Forward to Post #29
87  Economy / Securities / [BTCT.CO] -- SILVER -- on: December 24, 2012, 02:03:32 PM
I was inspired by BTC-GOLD. I am a silverbug with a large silver and gold
position and I've decided to gauge demand with a silver backed asset. My Goal is
(also) to increase strength of Bitcoins and Litecoins, by allowing the free
and simple trade between the currency and bullion without hassle and added fees.

Each share is equal to 1/10th of an ounce of silver.

SILVER provides an easy way to exchange BTC/LTC for silver bullion with 10
shares equal to 1 oz of physical silver. Please see the pictures of what we will
start with at -- To start, we have 40 beautiful 1/2 oz
coins for small orders, all the way up to 1oz, 2oz coins, 1/10th, 1/5th, 1/2 oz
gold and 5oz gold bars. We have smaller odd amounts in grams and in jewelry if
the investor wishes that.

Because each share represents 1/10th oz. of silver, the price of each share
makes it easy for any investor to start or add to their precious metal
portfolio. Silver is just about $30/oz now, so at $3 US a share that's around
0.23 bitcoins/share or so. A reasonable opening price.

SILVER also allows you the option to withdraw your shares and receive physical
silver bullion. With an additional handling fee and shipping/customs fee, you can
have increments of 5 shares withdrawn (1/2 oz.) mailed to you.


By investing in SILVER you are investing into Physical Silver. Various
forms of Silver will be obtained by the operator (myself) ranging in
brand, size, and form, but all silver is guaranteed to be at least .999 pure. In
fact, silver from our primary supplier in Canada is guaranteed .9999 pure.

The amount of shares in circulation at any time will only reflect the amount of
silver and silver-equivalent in gold I am holding physically in 10th ounces at
any given moment. One share is and will always be equal to 1/10th ounce of
physical silver bullion.


Share transfer between SILVER listed on various exchanges (ex. if we list on
Litecoin Global or Bitfunder) can be requested. Requests must be made in
multiples of 100 shares. Requests can only be completed if there are enough
unsold shares available on the requested fund. There is a fee of 2 shares per
transfer (1/5th of an ounce of silver).
Please contact the asset issuer to make your request.
Additionally, for a fee of 1 share per transaction, we will segregate your
silver (i.e. tag it with your name and/or private key) and place it in deep
storage. No one will be able to access your silver once it is placed in deep
storage until you personally withdraw it.

You may request to have your shares withdrawn as physical silver bullion and
shipped to you.

You must issue requests in 5 share (1/2 oz) increments.  To do this, please
send the operator a message and I will give further instruction. I will also
require that you pay a 1 share handling fee and the entire shipping expense,
which will be calculated upon your request for withdrawal. Payment for shipping
will be accepted in additional Shares, Bitcoins, Litecoins, BTC-E Code, and
MtGox code.

You will be responsible for the cost of all shipping features you desire, be it
insurance, or the use of another shipping company. (ie UPS or Fedex) After the
entire shipping expense has been paid, I will guarantee that all gold bullion
withdraws requested will ship out on my end, and I will provide appropriate
tracking via the carrier at no additional cost, when available. However,
although rare, the carrier can lose your packages. I am not liable these
mistakes, and it is your responsibility and highly recommended to request
appropriate insurance if you feel it necessary. It is also your responsibility
to check all of your country's laws about bullion importation. I will be
shipping from the Republic of China, so please look into local laws, and be
prepared to pay any applicable taxes, customs or fees imposed by your country.

Please note, I have been buying and selling silver for the better part of ten
years and I have never lost a shipment.

Exit Strategy:

If for any reason I am unable to continue my obligations here, I reserve the
right to shut down operation. In that case, the first option available will be
to receive your Physical Silver Bullion via the mail. The above shipping terms
still apply, but the handling fee will be waived in this case. For those that do
not want to receive their Physical Silver, I will liquidate the remaining
bullion and pay out your share value at current Gold spot market value.

Bullion Guarantee:

Your investment will be 100% backed by Silver Bullion and Gold Bullion, with at
least 70% held in local, secure storage in the form of .9999 pure Physical
Silver coins and bars (please see The other 30% will
either be held in .999 or better gold and/or silver. No shares will be issued
unless an equal number of 1/10th oz. are held in storage. In theory, your stock
value should never be worth less than its weight in silver. Of course, silver
has its own price fluctuation up and down, but it is your duty to make your own
informed decision as to whether or not this is an investment that suits your
needs. I recommend you do some research into gold and silver economics, look at
the price trends, and decide for yourself whether Silver Bullion is the best
choice for you right now.

Condensed Version

This is a Silver Bullion mutual fund, operated and managed by myself.  Each
share being worth 1/10th oz. of Silver Bullion. I will buy .9999 pure Silver
bullion, and will first take pictures to prove the total asset amount, and will
then release an equal amount of shares to how many total 1/10th oz of silver
bullion are in the fund. The silver bullion will then be placed in a secure
location, and locked away until needed. Another feature that this investment
has, is the option to physically withdraw from the Silver Bullion asset. In this
case, I will send you your physical silver (or in value-equivalent gold if you
request it and it is available) in the mail, of course I will require that you
pay shipping and customs/duties, and there is a small fee, but that is listed in
the shipping terms above.

The best part being, since there will never be more or less shares owned and on
the market than I currently have in the vault, everyone could withdraw at once
if they really wanted, and no one would have to wait, and there would be no
"bank run." Although, I will mention, your best deal is to just own the SILVER
shares, and not have them physically shipped. The whole idea of this asset is to
give a liquid Silver to currency asset, where you don't have to deal with your
own country's taxes (VAT and other import or customs taxes to be specific) and
you don't have to deal with the shipping cost.
88  Economy / Scam Accusations / The Case against Bitcoin OZ on: December 01, 2012, 07:06:24 AM
This post is a public service placeholder to collect any information on BitcoinOZ, as it has now become clear he has misrepresented himself as a Marketing Executive at Coinabul(!!), is lying and worming his way out of his status as a member of the Bitcoin Global board, and has possibly been misrepresenting himself as a Financial Services Professional. I don't think he deserves a scammer tag as I have not suffered any financial loss. However, if you have suffered financial loss as a result of this guy's actions, or if you have any information considering the large number of possible cases he has engaged in, please post that material in this thread. Thank you for your time,


The Case against BitcoinOZ


1. Who is Bitcoinoz?
2. What did he do?
3. Character Witnessing (opinions/why you should care.) -- please add to this section your opinion. I'm sure lots of people will stand up for him, as he's a well-known member of this community.


1. Who is Bitcoinoz?

David A. Hollis of Victoria, Australia (address withheld) goes by many names. Some of these names include (but are not limited to) noagendamarket and now, bitcoinoz. But you may know him better as the guy who ran BITCOINRS, or as one of the members of the board of Bitcoin Global (GLBSE). As you can tell, he is a member of the community in the strongest sense; he is involved in many businesses and other "schemes" in the community.

As David A. Hollis, he advertises himself as a Marketing Executive for (which has now been shown to be a misrepresentation by Mr. Hollis; see post below by Jay Shore), he runs, a bitcoin blog which he uses to promote and other businesses he is involved in. He also runs the BitcoinMedia Youtube Channel, aliased as "Ozzy Bitcoin". As you can tell, he's a rather involved member of the community. He is not an anonymous troll. He's a well-known community figure and one couldn't be blamed for assuming he had the ear of quite a few people, and a certain modicum of trust among many of us here in the community.

2. What did he do?
Apparently, quite a lot. While outlining each and every bad thing he has done is probably a waste of time, I'd like to point out a small handful of facts which probably warrant action. Maybe not action in the form of a scammer tag, but maybe something like getting fired from or having his reputation knocked down a notch or two.

One. David A. Hollis misappropriates the resources of to troll and defame users on

As mentioned, he runs -- on this channel he has published a defamatory video regarding me (and possibly other users). Normally this would not be a problem except that he is a well-known public figure, and for the fact that the contact information on this channel is listed as "" and the coinabul twitter page (which I therefore assume he runs).

This is a blatant mis-appropriation of company resources. I have been led to believe that supports his defamatory message against me. I assure you that I do not appreciate this in the strongest possible sense, and that I cannot say anything further regarding that video and it's apparent promotion by because I do not believe this is the correct venue for fully expressing that complaint.

NOTE: Coinabul has nothing to do with David Hollis -- Mr. Hollis only worked for Coinabul for a few short weeks over a year ago, as an unpaid intern. Secondly all links now appear to have been removed. So I have struck the above paragraphs.

Two. David A. Hollis has said untrue and damaging lies against me:

Although I am not a court of law or a lawyer, I will present evidence now that I believe shows:
a) David A. Hollis set out to intentionally deceive people;
b) for the sole purpose of financial gain
c) and to damage an individual

1. My evidence that David A. Hollis set out to intentionally deceive people for the purpose of financial gain.

One of the first questions when dealing with libel or slander is what kind it is, and what the damages are. In many cases the advice is to ignore it if damages cannot be shown. However, in cases of malicious criminal libel, which is a special type of fraud in U.S. law, damages are assumed. But in a case where damages can be shown they should be. In this case, Mr. Hollis has set out to escape his obligation as an operator of BITCOINRS to recognize shares owned by NYAN:
"Im sure the other shareholders will be more than happy with your donation of 2000 shares since you just offered to not accept them. "

The intentional deception here was that I had not, in fact, offered to donate them, and I still require them to be returned to CPA in the future (once I get the list of shareholders for NYAN).

2. My evidence that David A. Hollis set out to intentionally deceive people for the sole purpose of damaging another individual

Although I cannot speculate precisely why he has enganed in a smear campaign against me, it is easy to show that his comments were damaging because I believe the type of comments he issued fall under the category of malicious criminal libel, which (again) is a special type of law in US law where damages are assumed. Malicious criminal libel is what it is called when you accuse someone of committing a crime which they did not commit for the purpose of issuing libel or slander.

The following quotes are material evidence that BitcoinOZ has accused me of committing a crime for the sole purpose of damaging me:

a) from
-- "I believe the company has obligations exceeding its assets and therefore should appoint a liquidator."
(establishment of the requirement that he is acting on belief and without evidence)

-- "People say...CPA is no different...both made up companies...not a damn thing I could do about either company. You are no (censored) different..." (establishment of the fact he knew the charges against me were false, and was basing what he said on public opinion)

-- "Theres no way in hell Im going to become an accessory to your crime here..."
(establishment that he has accused me of committing a crime)

-- "Anything else is knowingly committing a criminal act."
(repetition confirming intent)

b) I refuted his statements in a response to that post in the same thread.
Therefore Mr. Hollis was made aware of his error, or was given a chance to provide proof of his claims. Instead of doing so, he continued on in full knowledge that I contested his claims and that he did not actually have any proof...

c) shown in the several following instances where he has accused me of committing a crime in that and in other threads which I will not show (ex.

It's not necessary to display each and every instance, just the above will suffice (for now). Again this isn't really a court, although I don't need a flood of evidence for that either given what I have already shown.

3. Character Witnessing
Why should you care?

You should care because David A. Hollis is abusing his position and his status as a community member to lie and obfuscate the truth; he expects people to believe him because he is a well-known community member and not because he has provided any evidence. I believe it is dangerous to do so.

Although he is well-known as a member of the board of directors of Bitcoin Global, and was directly responsible for voting involving financial matters of the company, he has publicly denied being anything other than a shareholder ( In that linked thread he has misrepresented himself as being merely a shareholder. It seems obvious this was done to try and limit his legal liability (which is probably unlimited).

This isn't a single instance; he has repeated this many times. ex. where he stated, "I owned bitcoinglobal shares on glbse and went to shareholder meetings. I also own telstra shares in Australia and go to the annual general shareholder meeting. Exactly what different level of liability does that imply Im not aware of ?".

However, the truth is a little different; as stated, he was a member of Bitcoin Global, a title which carried several obligations and duties. One of which was voting on the direction of the company from major moves like GLBSE going legit (which was an announced motion at a meeting he was present at), to both major and minor financial decisions of the company.
So it appears as if David Hollis is dishonest and is willing to lie to avoid possible jail time. In many developed countries including Australia, this is in and of itself a crime.

David A. Hollis breaks his word on business contracts, and obfuscates and lies to get out of his obligations.
In this message I outline how BitcoinOZ made an agreement with me to transfer ownership of shares, and then backed out of it. Although he didn't break any laws in that message really I suspect that his smear campaign is an attempt to both get out of keeping his word to me in PM, and also to shift some of the blame to my own companies (and others). For example in he says "
If GLBSE is a partnership so is cognitive,nasty mining,CPA and every other stock on glbse". He repeatedly mentions my name and company in his own defense, as if I had anything to do with his possible legal problems with GLBSE. It's kind of weird but that's the only reason I can think why he is doing this.

For example he has said "Usagi was on Nefario's secret panel to approve glbse assets. They had more access to him than the shareholders did.....". This is a blatant lie, and he knows it! IIRC it was even mentioned at a shareholder meeting! I offered to set up a public panel of community members to take the control away from Nefario on issues like banning Kludge and Goat, the Diablo-D3/DMC case and others. However Nefario never listened to any of my advice and did not give me control or ownership of anything. The panel was then immediately disbanded. Nobody would have ever thought it was secret either, as I made several posts about it and talked to a lot of asset issuers -- anyone I could find. Probably including our Mr. Hollis. I probably have the logs somewhere.

You should care because David. A. Hollis is a hypocrite. He has repeatedly stated (for example) that CPA is insolvent. He has been asked to stop. He has justified these ridiculous statements by saying "If CPA is solvent you shouldnt need to sell personal property to cover its loans.". This is disingenuous and irreverent on many levels; First, the loans in question were backed by a personal guarantee. Thus it is wrong of me to wait until we have the CPA shareholder lists before the loans are paid; I should pay the loans myself as I advertised personal responsibility on the loans, and then get the money back from CPA myself when all is said and done, fairly.

He has also claimed that if I am unable to show proper financial records I am insolvent and/or fraudulent. This is an odd claim, but it is also hypocritital. As a member of the board of Bitcoin Global, noagendamarket is on record giving Nefario carte blanche to buy any laptop he wants and then to have GLBSE pay for 50% of it's cost. Now, that isn't a crime and is certainly legal. But what I find odd and hypocritical is that this does not appear to ever be mentioned again anywhere in the Bitcoin Global financial records -- there is no reciept, there is no follow up in a shareholder meeting -- nothing. How then can Mr. Hollis accuse me of being insolvent/fraudulent "because I do not keep proper accounting records", when he does not keep proper accounting records himself? And no, this is not an "admission" I did not keep "proper accounting records". I've offered to show the CSV files and explain any transactions in them several times in the past. My own companies have nothing to do with it, obviously!

4. You should care because David A. Hollis intentionally covered up a crime involving a ponzi scheme on GLBSE and on the forums. Out of respect for the possible legal proceedings against the individual in question I cannot name any names, so don't ask. Let's just understand two things: David A. Hollis, in full knowledge that two separate crimes were taking place (a theft and a ponzi scheme) and with knowledge of the individuals involved:
a) allowed this ponzi scheme to operate on the lending forum of
b) covered up the theft and ponzi scheme for his own personal financial gain and to avoid trouble with the law.
AGAIN and I cannot make this clear enough, out of respect for possible legal proceedings which may be an issue, I cannot reveal anything further about this. If you would like me to do so, all you have to do is call me to testify in said legal proceedings. But I will say this, it's bloody unlikely to happen as I have no special information that 20 other people closer to this issue have, so yeah, don't bother asking.

5. You should care because David A. Hollis could do the same thing to you if he decides he doesn't like you. Some of the other cases where he has lied about me in order to defame me, are when he accused me of scamming or creating preferential shares because I sold a single to pay off the CPA loans.

The problem with this is that he was informed that I had a legal claim on the single. Further to this point, those of you who remember the BMF motion to allow BMF to buy hardware will remember that I had offered to donate the mining from my own personal single to BMF, to help the company. This single was, in fact, the one I sold. It was never BMF property. It was sold because I had a full and legal right to do so to cover my personal obligation on CPA loans.

When informed of the fact of my legal claim, he merely repeated that I had committed a scam/fraud. This is in line with everything else mentioned in this report.

He has also posted defamatory videos of me on the internet, which he knows to be false and misrepresentation of me and my character. For example, the video describes me as doing certain styles of martial arts which I do not do, or engaging in things I do not do; these are clear misrepresentations.

But beyond that, I believe that David A. Hollis is a disgrace to this community, and maybe -- just maybe -- should be preemptively labled with a scammer tag in recognition of the extreme misappropriation of his position he has engaged in on many fronts, not limited to a libelous and defamatory campaign against me for financial gain, or to escape possible criminal liablity with gas-lighting, outrageous lies, and mis-characterizations of himself and others.

In short, you should care because, as he is a prominent member of this community, I cannot idly stand by and watch him lie and manipulate people and abuse his position to gaslight and to obfuscate the truth. it's people like David A. Hollis who are destroying this community, and I say **** that. And I say **** David A. "BitcoinOZ" Hollis. I've really had enough of his sh** personally. I can't keep up with the massive smear campaign he is a party to. I just want to be left alone, so I thought I would show how little credibility this jerk really has. I wouldn't want someone thinking he was someone who could be trusted.

I mean, I trusted him myself. As the operator of NYAN I trusted him because he was a member of the community and I bought 2,000 shares of his company BITCOINRS because I believed he was an honest person and a good businessman because of his reputation. I screwed up. If I could go back I wouldnt' have bought those shares. I had no idea he would turn on me like this, try to screw me over like this. You have been warned.

A final thought. A lot of people have said I am a scammer just because I use different names on different forums, or that I have used different names here. Well I've never tried to hide that or hide myself and basically stuck to the same two names, Serena and Usagi. BTW, Serena is an English name and Usagi is a Japanese name. I just wanted English people to feel more comfortable in dealings with me. Lots of Chinese and Japanese use an English first name. So I am sorry if you feel this is scummy but it was not my intention to decieve. However, I would like to point out that after GLBSE shut down and rumors of the board members being scam artists started to fly around, BitcoinOZ used his status as a donator to have his name changed on the forums. That's right. he changed his name on the forums so people would not associate him with his former identity. That is something way way worse that I did -- he actually is using a different name now to hide who he was and what he did in the past. So yeah.


ADDENDUM: David Hollis advertises himself as a "... Financial Services Professional" on linkedin, and advertises himself as a Marketing Executive of Coinabul. These claims have now been proven false in a post by Jay Shore below.

I do not know if he really is a financial services professional however given his misrepresentation that he is or ever was an Executive at Coiniabul I doubt it. Please note that it is a crime to misrepresent yourself as a financial services professional in the USA and Canada and likely Australia. It is illegal to call yourself a financial services professional or offer any kind of investment advice whatsoever unless you are accredited. The defining acts being to do with "advice" and "investment" and "financial services" and nothing to do with how such things are denominated, i.e. baseball cards and bitcoins are both under that umbrella. I would propose Mr. Hollis to show us his accreditation as a financial services professional. If he is lying about his job experience as an Executive on a resume that might not in and of itself be a crime, but if he is lying about having professional accreditation from a sanctioned governing body, that is in fact a crime.


Edit: The links to have now been removed.
89  Other / Off-topic / [] - Beta-1 Milestone! on: November 25, 2012, 05:43:26 AM
For those of you interested in the investment opportunities offered by, I have two important announcements; one for users and one for potential investors!

Announcement for Users: has now completed it's first app, a basic JLPT-N5 flashcard quiz app. This puts us squarely at Beta-1 status. This is a simple program which presents hiragana words to you and asks you if you know them. If you do, you click 'A'. If you don't, you click 'B'. You have 30 seconds to answer each question. The app is smart; it knows which words have N5 level Kanji, and it shows them as kanji 50% of the time. At the end, your quiz is marked.

If you are learning Japanese, check out today. The next step in this amazing flashcard app is to allow it to become fully configurable. To that end I have already implemented a cookie-based user config system. In the coming days and weeks I will be adding the forms and backend code to transform this simple flashcard app into the beast that the Kongzi desktop program is. And from there I will be adding other features such as Spaced Repetition, and so forth. Good luck and thank you for using

Announcement for Investors:
The offer I am making has changed. I am still not offering any securities. But due to the nature of the site (i.e. how it has developed) I have decided to change the terms of the pre-sales and business development loan I'm asking for. I feel I've demonstrated that I am serious about this, at least a little bit beyond what it was like when I made the original post linked above. I now offer:

a) Presale / Resale opportunities
1. An attractive 5 bitcoins for a lifetime "full" account on (one per person, please).
2. A very generous 50% commission for anyone willing to act as a resale agent.
3. An attractive five bitcoins for a complete package of:
  • One set of copies of Welcome to Japanese and Welcome to Japanese Workbook in their current iteration, shipped anywhere in the world;
  • eBook versions of the final work e-mailed to you later

b) Business Development Loan Opportunities (CLOSED)
If you wish to help support this project, I will borrow money from you in bitcoins and repay you out of initial profits from Exact terms can be worked out in PM (and made public if you like). At this time I am willing to negotiate loans of 10btc and up. What will this money be used for?
--> If I get a lot of money (5000 bitcoins) I will quit my jobs and do this full time.
--> If I get a marginal amount (500 bitcoins) I will use it to cover site expenses and my Adobe Creative Suite subscription.
--> If I get low amounts of money (50 bitcoins) I will use it to cover site expenses.

c) Questions: What kind of profits are we looking at? How long is the expected time until these profits are generated?
Answers: A website like has 50,000 users and up subscribed to some of it's courses. has over a million users and has delivered over 200 million video lessons alone. received over 300,000 likes on facebook. Sites like lang-8, japanese-live, easyjapanese, etc. tend to collect hundreds of thousands of user profiles relatively early in their lifespan.

I also am not solely targeting English speaking people who want to learn Japanese. I am also simultaneously targeting Chinese and Japanese speakers who want to learn English, and also people who want to learn Chinese as well. It's a 4 way; English, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. Speakers of any of these languages can learn any of the others. The system is set up to go between any two languages directly.

Ok so let's assume a reasonable 100,000 accounts after 1-2 years, with a conservative conversion ratio of 0.5% (the lowest standard estimate is usually 1%). We are looking at 500 paying users. If I charge $5 a month that's $2,500 a month. 250 bitcoins a month. Site expenses including my coffee won't reach 50 bitcoins a month. I expect to get to this point in approximately 18 months. The second year will see a giant push towards audiovisual resources, native speaker hiring, and other top-secret stuff I can't talk about yet. I expect a more honest 300,000 users and a 1% conversion rate by that time (3 years) leading to an average 3,000 paying users ($15,000 a month). Of course the expenses will be a lot more by then, probably $2,000-$3,000 a month, because we will want to raise production values on the AV resources. And I'll want to draw some pay by then. But I think a repay rate of $10,000 a month is reasonable once we reach our peak. In the far future (5+ years) , I expect to integrate with existing online communities and really focus fire on other languages besides teaching Japanese and English. A lot of business will come from C-->J, K-->C and so forth. These are just ballpark estimates.

d) Sunset clause on business development loans
Once the site gets up and running (maybe around 3-6 months total?) I won't be looking for business development loans, save a larger loan which would enable me to quit my job and develop the website full time. Get it while you can. (offer closed)
90  Other / Off-topic / Django Reinhardt on: November 22, 2012, 05:32:24 AM
Don't feed the trolls, especially not the retarded ones.

I'd like to congratulate davout for being a real man (he has a picture of Django Reinhardt as his avatar).
91  Economy / Scam Accusations / EskimoBob - Possibly lied about owning YARR on: November 21, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
  :payment_address: x
  :shares: 1
  :payment_address: x
  :shares: 1
  :payment_address: x
  :shares: 1
  :payment_address: x
  :shares: 9973
  :payment_address: x
  :shares: 1

The above is what I have been sent from GLBSE with the following disclaimer:
"you may be sent more lists as users continue to claim their GLBSE accounts"

There are 20 unclaimed/outstanding shares.

No one claimed 9 shares which means EskimoBob lied (*conditional, see below) about holding shares:

As I mentioned in another thread, I have 9 YARR's and I like to sell this stuff back to you. I had a sell order for my shares Ask side until GLBSE closed down.
A bit embarrassing  Cry to say but I also had

Lets clear up the YARR and then move to next ones.

Second to the above quote mods can confirm I have been PM'd the same info by EskimoBob.

Therefore EskimoBob deserves a scammer tag (conditionally) because he tried to scam me out of 9 bitcoins by lying about his YARR holdings.

If EskimoBob really held 9 shares of YARR he must make a claim on the GLBSE.

Conditional because: I am willing to admit that there may be a very good reason why EskimoBob has not yet made a claim on the GLBSE.  I do not have the time or energy to dig and find out if he said he made a claim yet. I will allow EskimoBob several days to respond to this and explain why he has not made a claim yet or explain why he is not on the list of YARR holders.

edit: status changed to confirmed:

All I see is this:

Claim finished

Your claim has been submitted and will be reviewed. You will be contacted (via the email address you provided) to keep you up to date on the status of your account, we will try to get your bitcoin to you as soon as possible.

I have not received any e-mails from GLBSE Sad

One thing is certain, if EskimoBob cannot explain this he definitely deserves a scammer tag for attempting to defraud me out of 9 bitcoins.
92  Economy / Scam Accusations / EskimoBob, Puppet, Deprived. Etc. on: November 21, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
Note: I reserve the right to edit this post for content and accuracy. The spirit and substance of what I have said here will not change.
Partial Retraction: I have decided to retract non-forum complaints (especially those against Mircea Popescu for rating me -10 on OTC purely out of malice). This is just out of a personal belief the forum should not be used for non-forum bitcoin complaints. Secondly, the truth is that Mircea/MPOE-PR while I don't like them, don't really make it their life's purpose to slander me. It's okay not to like me and to voice that. This isn't about trying to change people's personal opinion about me. This is about people accusing me of committing a crime I am not guilty for.
I allege the following people have deceived and defrauded me, my companies, and various investors on this forum.

1. Puppet
2. Deprived
3. EskimoBob
4. deeplink

Lesser to the above are:
4. Guruvan
5. Ian Bakewell

First; what is fraud, exactly?

In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual.

Therefore if I can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that

a) an intentional deception was made
b) for personal gain or to damage another individual

then the named parties ARE GUILTY OF FRAUD and DESERVE A SCAMMER TAG.

What do I want? I want a scammer tag for every person named in this report OR a full apology made on this thread OR I want to be left alone; in short, stop lying about me, and stop taking potshots against me in unrelated threads. What I really want is to be left alone. I'm tired of these bullshit accusations. I would much rather do something positive and add value to the community. It is time wasting and energy draining to respond to these trolls.

Many people have said I should not respond to trolls. This is a dangerous assumption. Look at what maged and badbear, both high level forum mods, have said about me. Badbear in particular has said I am a scummy fuck because of what others have said about me. He inserts himself into threads he has no business in to slander me and troll me. If we assume his intentions are good then badbear and maged are prime examples of why I cannot ignore these trolls and must make a full response. Because the actions of these people is wrong and irresponsible and causes me direct financial damage, despite there being no actual proof I am a scammer. In fact, if you look at reports from my actual customers such as PsychoticBoy (see post #2 below) you will see I did my job and there were no real complaints.

Although it is difficult for me to remember exact times and dates, I will provide references where I can.

What is the minimum limit of my demonstrable financial loss?

1. EskimoBob intentionally broke a contract that he agreed to seven times on IRC. Although Maged said EskimoBob should not recieve a scammer tag for this, without exception everyone who was present in the IRC channel who chose to speak out about it on EskimoBob's accusation thread agreed that he broke his contract and should recieve a scammer tag.

Further to this, in the accusation EskimoBob viciously attacked me and attempted to obfuscate the situation by counter-accusing me of being a scammer and (!!!) Maged seemed to agree that I had made dishonest statements.

As a direct result of these trolls, I experienced a demonstratable financial loss; One, Ian Bakewell (and likely BitcoinMiningINV) canceled their contracts with CPA.

Secondly, I had lost business in an unrelated transaction on the services forum whereby I needed someone to buy something for me online, and they made reference to that thread and Maged's comments. I also likely (although unprovably) lost business which I would have otherwise gained had EskimoBob and Maged not allowed that thread to derail.

See the IAN BAKEWELL section below for where Ian admits that as a direct result of this thread and Maged's comments I was caused a direct financial loss.
"It is very clear that usagi has been posting misleading statements. It may not be enough for a scammer tag, but it's pretty damn close" Notably, Maged has NEVER, EVER, EVER responded to any call to state exactly what dishonest statements I have made.

it is WELL KNOWN that these people are trolls and liars: (among many other such posts)

POINT ONE: I have been damaged by EskimoBob's comments.
POINT TWO: There is absolutely no question that I have been damaged by other people's comments, such as puppet, deprived, and deeplink; these people have accused me of various things, none of which has ever been proven true. In short they lied. They had an intent to defame me, in order to defraud investors in CPA.

The oddest thing about all of this is that throughtout this entire event, MPOE-PR/Mircea Popescu and EskimoBob were both invested in my companies. Mircea in particular copied my business model (no, he did not invent the CDO, he copied what I did 6 weeks after he saw I was successful at it) and used my own CDO as a basis for his; he invested in at least 100 shares of NYAN.A.

examples where eb states he was holding my companies all along:

(mircea's use of nyan.a was published on his blog, I don't have a link handy sorry).

I will now outline (some of) the many damaging statements and lies the people named above have stated. This is VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION because it demonstrates that LIES have been told about me; I have therefore proven that ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE CLEARLY COMMITTED FRAUD.

Warning. EskimoBob's "ART" security was delisted and he was banned from #assets-otc for life. EskimoBob is a known troublemaker.
@EskimoBob you asset has just been desisted from #assets-otc and you will never be allowed to list any assets at this service.

I sent you the history of your asset by email - all 3 transactions and both the pgp keys.

Now go licking some more goats' balls.

0. EskimoBob slandered me on OTC:

1. EskimoBob said that I had been kicked off numerous internet forums. He has been asked several times to name even one, but he has ignored the question.

"Usagi keep lying to forum readers and publishing unreal NAV's."

"Your lies about NYAN*, BMF etc NAV's and so on are all over this forum. "
What lies? I've been accused of lying, but no lie has been shown.

"not a single bank trusts him with a CC? WTF!"
Baseless accusation, unsupported statement.

5. (ibid)
"...long history of trolling.   "
If you do not know what happened on rec.martial-arts, don't make a fool of yourself. Not a troll.
Oh, so you really want to drag up my past history? I was invited to the private neijia mailing list run by M.S. and I have had several discussions with M.S. I wrote the chi faq: and this is why I was attacked so hard on R.M-A. Over the years the forum became populated by people who did MMA and visciously attacked anyone who did kung fu. Especially tai chi. Although not everyone was a bad apple usenet is full of professional trolls. i was called a troll merely because I did tai chi. That is the whole story. Want to talk about my outrageous claims? Such as like China would get an aircraft carrier in 2012? No one believed me. I live here. I know. But I was attacked for what I said. My entire history on r.m-a was basically trying to get people to realize tai chi was not about shooting chi balls out of your ass. Go read the Chi FAQ and decide for yourself if I believe I can shoot chi balls out my ass. I do not wish to discuss r.m-a and if you think it's an issue, go post about it on r.m-a. I did martial arts for over 20 years. I consider myself retired. If you are interested in martial arts you should probably respect my experience on the subject. I am not saying I cannot be wrong. I am saying martial arts has nothing to do with bitcoin and not everyone always agrees. The arguments stemmed from the fact everyone did different styles of martial arts and couldn't stop bickering and trolling about it. The end.

No unresolved issues.

"Yes, Usagi scammed me, when he told me lies to sell me some of the shares."
What lies? EB bought shares on GLBSE. I had nothing to do with it.

"Is this farce any way to related to anything you can actually call a contract? No, it is not."
Yes, the entire thread was about how he broke a contract he agreed to seven times, and several people weighed in on that in my favor.

"Other investors are pissed off too."
Who? All of the large investors like DeadTerra were not upset. I certainly wasn't upset, I owned a majority of my companies.

"He even used your name to squeeze me for coin yesterday"
...based on a judgement/suggestion by maged that everyone saw (and EB had replied to, showing that he had read it). This demonstrates a very clear-cut case of misrepresentation by EB.

"wasted and swindled away thousands of investors BTC. "
blatant lie. I did not swindle 1 btc let alone 100 let alone 1000s.

"your own stupid mistakes that cost over 7000 BTC to your investors"
"you are the scumbag who swindled hundreds if not thousands of coins of your investors money and wasted it of who knows what. Not me. "
malicious criminal libel/slander. Extremely irresponsible comments by eskimobob.

again accuses me of destroying 7000 btc in investor capital.

"I am informing project supporters that those are NOT securities."
EB scams people by claiming his ART project securities are not securities.

"<EskimoBob> you do not run business. You run some "make believe" bull shit"

"Investors have forked over to you at least 14 226,2 BTC (if you sold shares only at 0.1 and have not bought back any at lover price). "

"We also need hero tags for the people who trolled this fuck."
Admitting that it was trolling / had no other purpose than to troll and try and destroy someone's business.

"To libertarians and scammers, I am a troll. I wear the label proudly."
Admission he's a troll (i.e. liar).

"Your sample textbook pages include too much English. I am a consumer of language texts. As a consumer, I reject offerings that are full of English language. "
This is in reference to the sample PDFs available at -- anyone looking at the textbook samples can see that the pages contain mostly Japanese. He intentionally lied to make people think my books were bad, to discredit me, to defraud me from business people would have otherwise given me.
"Your version:
"Strictly speaking, given the above breakdown, we're not dealing with a subject-verb-object sentence pattern, we're dealing with a subject-object-verb sentence pattern""
---> This sentence does not appear anywhere in my sample PDFs. Not sure where he got it from?

"...usagi appears to have a long history in scamming."
No, just because I have been around for a while does not mean I have a long history in scamming. Where the heck did he get that from?

"You must have pulled a lot of scams to have to change your identity so many times. Did any of your scams succeed?"
Been around for 20+ years. I don't use the same alias all the time. Doesn't mean a thing. No need to repeatedly claim I am a scammer because I use different handles on different forums.

"I assure you. Usagi has S, C, A, and M level JLPT credentials. "
No, I have real provable experience in asian languages and I have published a great deal of my work. I also have been living here in Asia for around 7 years.

Necro account (!!!):

"A brief time-line for BMF - an investment company (mis)managed by usagi.  This is relevant to set the scene. ... Obviously usagi then went and did precisely what it had said it wouldn't do"
This is a lie. It was not obvious; Deprived has no reasonable grounds to make that statement and then accuse me of having a nefarious intent.

2. (ibid)
"Oh really?  Where?  This is a blatant lie.  There is no publicity and no motion prior to the post announcing it as a done deal."
The contract was: announced in the securities forum, was published on the company website, and was mentioned in a shareholder letter. It was also discussed on the CPA round table to which DeadTerra, Patrick Harnett, mollison and several others had access. Everyone knew about it. What Deprived said was a lie designed to defame me.

"As neither BMF or CPA accounts for actual transactions (just a fairy-tale valuation) there's no way to know."
I have said many times I will provide details of transactions if there is any problem. It's called a CSV file.

4. (ibid).
"usagi has consistently refused to answer questions about what the insurance policy covered and why there was no claim on it"
I think everyone knows how vocal I was answering all of the complaints against me.

"2.  "All of my shareholders are happy." is not supported by the facts."
It was supported by several shareholder motions and discussions which I had with shareholders in PM.

6. (ibid).
"The vote wasn't even announced in the main BMF thread"
The vote was announced in a BMF thread. What he said was intentionally misleading.

"Amusing how usagi totally refuses to discuss the BMF insurance issue."
"when I asked in the BMF thread ages ago (and also in the CPA one) why BMF wasn't claiming on its insurance policy (and what that policy covered if it wasn't loss of NAV) you refused to answer it."
(see above)

"Nyan cooking the books to cover up an interest-free loan to CPA" - as it hasn't been discussed anywhere (except briefly by me) and just about all the facts in it are already accepted by usagi."
No proof and again, I countered every one of his claims many times.

"This is also when usagi started defrauding nyan investors (which I never got around to posting about) by making interest free loans to CPA (dressed up as holding YARR shares for the books)."
No interest-free loans were ever made to CPA.

"You've said a few times in this thread that EVERYTHING you had was invested on GLBSE - yet that isn't actually true is it?"
During the times BMF had hardware on order I had never failed to mention that. A shareholder motion was created over the issue of buying hardware. I made a very public series of posts about it. I never once tried to hide the fact we had a small amount of hardware. I mentioned it several times in PM to various creditors.

"I have no proof it is a scam,"
Puppet admits he has no proof.
also see:
"While no proof or even evidence of scamming," -- puppet is just obfuscating and trolling.

"You base your NAV claims on the (un)"real" column and there it still shows your BFL gear at prices way above listprice. ... You are still valuing your ABM shares as if their non upgradable BFL single would somehow be worth 375 BTC."
The "real" colum was discussed many times to represent book value. I added a second colum which pulled share prices off the GLBSE. Puppet failed to acknowledge this, and the numerous disclaimers in the spreadsheet (including showing the formulas used). Secondly, ABM was WORTH that much (0.4/share, IIRC), which shows Puppet was flip flopping in his accusations, as the substance of his complaint was that I was overvaluing shares compared to their GLBSE price.

"Usagi just deleted all his posts and his website."
No, I left numerous posts including information about CPA's liquidity loan as a sign that I was not leaving and did not intend to defraud or default on anyone.

Guruvan admits he did not and never did have any evidence.

"The more evidence I see, the more convinced I am that usagi is not incompetent but is acting with the criminal intent to steal funds from investors

When I first met usagi, I thought it was an idiot. When it made CPA, I was pretty sure it was a crook. Now that we're starting to look more deeply into the books, I'm quite certain that usagi is a crook.

1. Manipulating held asset value
2. Mind-bogglingly stupid investment decisions that are likely obfuscated attempts to inject funds into the multi-headed ponzi scheme being run
3. Hiding losses through manipulated asset value
4. Double dealing (the BMF-CPA contract is probably criminal in most jurisdictions)
5. Attempts to silence critics - the volume and hysteria has grown the closer to the truth people investigating usagi have gotten.
6. misrepresenting physical asset value
7. apparently representing expenses as assets
8. Has silently defaulted on contracts between its own companies. Apparently failed to notify shareholders of both companies the default.
9. Apparently manipulating shareholder motion votes
10. Manipulation of share prices

A large collection of lies by Guruvan. None of what he has said has ever been proven. He has stated that I have done this but provided no proof. All of these points have been discussed to death and I am guilty of none of them. Silently defaulting for example -- Umm, no, read the contract. Has been discussed numerous times.

"I'm sure the deletion of posts is in response to the likely investigation by major governments' securities regulating agencies (SEC/FSA) - wouldn't want to leave any evidence lying around"
I am not under investigation by the government. it is a criminal offense to state that someone is under investigation for a crime when they are not. Guruvan has committed fraud and should be labled as a scammer.
In fact this has been shown not to be the case beyond a reasonable doubt. If I was under investigation for AML or something, Nefario would almost certainly be prohibited from releasing shareholder information to me. The fact I have received YARR holder's e-mails and addresses implies I am not under investigation. Not that he had any proof in the first place.

"Pointing out that you've grossly misrepresented your finances would be, except it's true, and he's pointing out either mismanagement or criminal intent. I completely agree with puppet, and have been hinting at this for some months now (as in, since you showed up and got registered on gribble, after my repeated insistence) I didn't think you were a wise investor then, and I have not changed my opinion. "
Once again repeating that I am a criminal/etc.

4. (ibid)
"In short, I think you are a significant danger to investors and I will voice that opinion until you get a court injunction against me. (I suppose you could get a mod to silence me on the forum, but not on IRC) You have several people saying the same things and no one defending your position usagi.  Your accounting doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and it looks like the house of cards is about to collapse. "

"reputation" reputation as con-artist and shell game operator?"
The question is rhetorical, so he is stating outright I am a con artist.

Posting doctored IRC logs that likely/obviously were from Mircea. I was the only one trolled, and they were the only ones paid. See links in the MPOE section.

"3) You have deliberately deleted most of your posts to remove evidence."
No, that is not why I deleted some of my posts.

"You have swindled people with fraudulant business schemes."
He has been pressed repeatedly to qualify this and has ignored the question each time. This is a very clear cut case of malicious criminal libel, and fraud.

"Many have pointed out in the last monts before GLBSE closed how usagi was swindling his customers. In the above posts you find a quote stating that Maged agrees with this."
No, Maged did not agree and no one had provided any actual evidence (least of all DEEPLINK.)

"usagi has been misleading his customers in the past in various fraudulent business schemes"
More unsupported statements.

Vicious, evil, unsupported demands.

The case against Ian is long. Ian lied to me about his financial position in BAKEWELL and asked me to reduce his payment. A few days later he said he had to break the contract.

He then tried to drag my name thru the mud. Read the above link. it's quite clear I stuck to my contract and he was a total asshole to me. here are some of the lies he told about me:
"Wants the shareholders to be paid in an attempt to claw back, as they hold some BAKEWELL shares that would get the divvy."
Irelevant. The contract clearly stated the money would be returned to shareholders. Read the thread, people were agreeing with me.
2. (ibid)
"I do want the money back, my shareholders do agree, please pay:  1Q1k2uTUZ1ZSSufH2w9xnCnPPzC1QmreEa"
No motion was done at this time. He lied.

"Long live those trolls."
Announces his recognition and support that this is just trolling against me.

No unresolved issues.

"I make all my financials available in the third post of my thread & I try to stay as current as possible."
Ian did not disclose for several weeks that he could not get his 7990's to work, thereby defrauding investors in his company who were lied to in order that Ian could get more BTC from sale of shares.

In this post Ian presents himself as a scammer. Read the post.
A rough summary is as follows:

a. Ian says:
"In the time between founding BAKEWELL and creating the shareholder insurance fund with you, and now, the plan for BAKEWELL has dramatically changed.
BAKEWELL is a much smaller company than I initially thought I would launch with. We will continue to grow, but on a slow roll out basis.
At this time, the dividends from BAKEWELL will not cover the funds fee. As such I am not able to continue with it at this time.
I will be utilizing the small dividend I receive to aggressively grow BAKEWELL until the first half of the ipo is sold out.
I apologize for any inconvenience this causes you.

The fund currently has 4 BTC in it.
I would like to work out a refund of this from you, less a small management fee.
I would then like to restart this with a larger initial contribution and a payment plan based on dividend income once half of my ipo is cleared out."

b. I immediately respond:
"Working out a refund is not possible because this is an agreement designed to protect your shareholders in case of a default on your end."

c. Ian responds he is aware he CAN NOT cancel the contract in this way:
"I am aware of the contract clauses, particularly A4 and section D."\

d. He gets caught in the lie here:

In this post Ian threatens to drag my name in the mud if I do not accquiesce to his demands of a refund (in violation of the contract he signed, and despite point c. where he states he is aware he may not cancel the contract).

In this post Ian once again states that the "single largest factor" in losing his business was the troll threads. This is in sharp contrast to his statement in a).

In short, Ian committed fraud; he defrauded CPA, he lied in order to cancel his contract in full knowledge he could not do this and he attempted to slander me on the forums in order to get out of his contract. This is a clear case of fraud.
93  Economy / Securities / NYAN/BMF/CPA CLAIMS (latest news in post #45) on: November 18, 2012, 04:35:09 PM

Based on what Smickles, Kludge, and several others are doing, I've decided to make a statement regarding the companies I used to run on GLBSE and allow people to send me proof of their holdings.

First, it's important to note that I ran funds -- similar to S^2 capital management (ran by Smickles and imsaguy), or Gamma Bitcoin Fund, ran by DeadTerra. However, in contrast to S^2 and GBF, everything that my companies held was held on the GLBSE. I think, BMF might have had 20 bitcoins in it when GLBSE shut down; we also ordered 2 FPGA singles. So besides that everything we held was on the GLBSE.

So, first of all, I do not have any kind of massive amount of bitcoins, nor do I have any physical assets that are owned by anyone. The shareholders of my companies own other assets on the GLBSE; that's the nature of what I was doing. So for example, we had (say) 400 and change shares of BAKEWELL. We had 300 plus change shares of YABMC, We had 3000+ shares of BMMO. We had X shares of this, Y shares of that.

Since GLBSE shut down, I don't have any way to prove that we held those companies. I also didn't receive any dividends and have not received anything not even a peep from Nefario this whole time. Incidentally, besides something like 2 people I also have not had anyone e-mail me or PM me requesting information nor payback. So I'm in the following position;

I'd love to distribute the assets in NYAN/etc. to former shareholders but:
1. Shareholders currently have no way to prove their claim, and
2. I have no way to prove that NYAN/etc owned assets of any company.

And all of this is compounded by the unstated obvious fact that 3. Almost everything on the GLBSE has become worthless because there is no market and most companies are no longer paying dividends.

So I'm going to be collecting claims until the end of January 2013 (a lot like other issuers). Email to me, at ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER that you held any of my companies. A screenshot, whatever. If I do not receive any information from Nefario by that time then you will have to go after Nefario yourselves; he has both the proof we held assets, and your name as a claimant. I have nothing. If he doesn't give it to me, you will have to chase him down yourselves. However, by sending a claim to me at at least there will be a record of your claim.

You do understand I will need more than "remember that $5 you owe me" to process your claim. There are just too many slimeballs like EskimoBob who have already said I owe them money when I know for a fact I do not. EskimoBob for example has claimed he had 9 shares of YARR, which I happen to know for a fact is false, because I know who had the remaining shares of YARR before GLBSE shut down.

So, due to the special nature of this situation and the undeniable fact that Nefario has access to BOTH the list of shareholders of the companies AND the list of holdings of the companies, there is little I can do. I can't chase him legally because I simply don't have the money to launch an international case. Second point, since this is all illegal in the UK he would have to be extradited from the UK to where I am or another jurisdiction. In short, it's just not possible for me to do anything legally to Nefario and I sure as hell am not going to do anything illegal.

There's really no actual bitcoins involved here; all Nefario has to do is give me a list of what I held -- the proof I need to start making calls to garr255 and others and start getting dividends and/or getting repaid and/or distributing assets to former shareholders. But I don't even have that. I suspect he can't give that information out, since it would mean he is facilitating the market making which he states he can no longer do.

I'll also take suggestions. But anything that involves me spending tens of thousands of dollars on a lawyer to chase nefario down or biking from china to the UK is out of the question. I've already lost all my money in personal holdings on the GLBSE.

P.S. don't bother claiming I owe you anything on the forums. You can PM me if you want a record of it on the forums, so the admins can see it. That's fine. But for convenience please also CC it to Thanks.
94  Economy / Securities / going live -- investment/presales opportunities on: November 15, 2012, 07:45:06 AM -- what is it?

It's a real business. Something that adds value to the bitcoin community. Not just some fancy schmantzy financial bond or mining scheme. It's a language school, and we accept bitcoins. We don't accept dollars because I don't have paypal.

We also publish and sell our own language textbooks, and they are some of the most advanced language textbooks in the world. We're starting with Japanese (although others are in development). We currently have the only Japanese textbook in the world that attempts to use comprehensible input theory to teach the language. And our website will be the same.

So, I am looking for private investment to help me develop this. I have a couple of ideas.

One, I can sell the book I'm working on (see: <--- No really, check this out. It's real and it's 90% done. It's good enough to offer pre-sales.

Two, I can sell you a lifetime membership on There isn't much there now, but once it gets rolling I'll start charging by the month, and a lifetime membership account would become priceless. Go there and sign up now, it's free. See for yourself how I am working on it.

Finally, you can invest in the language school itself. While I can't offer you shares or bonds, I can offer you an investment opportunity in the form of a private business loan. If you loan me money personally so that I can develop this project, then I promise to personally pay you back once the site starts making money. The terms of such an arrangement can be discussed privately.

So how do you know I'm for real? Well first, I have a very good OTC rating ( Second, please visit the link above; -- There are pictures of the book. Finally, I've done more than one complete and fully functional website before, including So you know for a fact I can complete what I start.

But what's more, I've already finished the programming and solved all the natural language processing issues surrounding a language school; please see my old blog at especially the following posts for some screenshots.

So you know this is for real, you know this will compete with programs like stackz, anki and, and you know it will blow them out of the water. It will destroy programs like Rosetta stone. It will revolutionize language teaching online!

I've always been afraid to release my code for fear that it will be pirated; that concern does not exist with a web app in the way that it does with desktop software. I've been a professional language teacher for the last seven or eight years now; I use the desktop (java) version of kongzi to teach in the classroom and not only do the students love it, it really does help them learn the language more quickly. I'm very experienced teaching English here in Asia, and I will have a large (30+) base of customers on learning English almost immediately. I also work closely with the cram schools, private highschools and universities I teach English at here, and there will be options for me to draw students from those places and provide English teaching services to those schools and also to help smaller schools get a web presence/computer presence.

I can tell you for sure, a lot of smaller cram schools would LOVE to be able to tell parents they have computer teaching/testing or to give students homework that they have to complete using a computer. Parents eat that stuff up like popcorn.

So how will this work? Here are my ideas:

1. Presales of books/membership:
For 1 bitcoin I will sell you a copy of one of the books I'm working on (see; Combined shipping anywhere in the world is 1 bitcoin.
For 2 bitcoins I will give you a 1 year full-access membership code, which will become active when we start charging for membership (no point using it until then, at any rate).
For 5 bitcoins I will give you a lifetime transferrable* membership to and e-book copies of the books now, and also send you printed copies of the final product when the books are done.
*(you can edit your e-mail/password, or I can give you a code which will unlock a lifetime membership account.)

2. Investment into
For every bitcoin you give me personally, I promise to pay you back 1.2 bitcoins out of my profit from You will be paid first before I realize any personal profit. (idea 1) -- go there, check it out. I'm working on it.... right now!
95  Economy / Currency exchange / Sign up to for me (~$60) for 7+ bitcoins on: October 28, 2012, 01:48:31 PM

I want to sign up to but I can't use paypal right now, and I don't have a credit card.

If you do me the service of signing up for me, I'll xfer you 7 bitcoins. Or whatever it's worth plus 1 bitcoin (your choice). A 6 month membership will cost around $60 right now IIRC.

I'll have to give you my name and password on for you to buy it for me. Once it's set up let me know and I'll send you the bitcoins.

This will be rated over OTC/WOT so please I prefer people who have a rating of 10+ thanks (but contact me if your rating is lower, I'll take a look).
96  Economy / Services / Sign up to for me (~$60) for 7+ bitcoins on: October 28, 2012, 01:47:39 PM

I want to sign up to but I can't use paypal right now, and I don't have a credit card.

If you do me the service of signing up for me, I'll xfer you 7 bitcoins. Or whatever it's worth plus 1 bitcoin (your choice). A 6 month membership will cost around $60 right now IIRC.

I'll have to give you my name and password on for you to buy it for me. Once it's set up let me know and I'll send you the bitcoins.

This will be rated over OTC/WOT so please I prefer people who have a rating of 10+ thanks (but contact me if your rating is lower, I'll take a look).
97  Economy / Securities / Are bitcoin based securities illegal? on: October 09, 2012, 10:50:30 AM
While I can comprehend the idea that "unregistered securities" are "illegal" in the United States and the UK, the question here is what happens when you are not operating in one of those jurisdictions but instead you are on the internet, and/or in another country. For example, chewing gum in public might be illegal in Singapore, but they will hardly extradite a Jamaican natural living in France all the way to Singapore to put you on trial for chewing gum.

Before anyone panics and says "we're all doomed!" the SEC regulations provide a remedy:

If you are already engaged in the business and are not yet registered, you should cease all activities until you are properly registered.

So right off the top, if you/me anyone simply stops post haste, once being made aware of the legal status of what you are doing, you should be fine. This is likely what Nefario was told and what he did (although that is speculation on my part).

The question is, then, is it? Is this illegal? And if so, where? As for me, I'm not a U.S. citizen and I don't live in the USA. But there are two passages from the SEC regulations which seem to be important which i'd like to quote here for the benefit of my U.S. friends:

5. Issuer's "Exemption" and Associated Persons of Issuers (Rule 3a4-1)

Issuers generally are not "brokers" because they sell securities for their own accounts and not for the accounts of others. Moreover, issuers generally are not "dealers" because they do not buy and sell their securities for their own accounts as part of a regular business. Issuers whose activities go beyond selling their own securities, however, need to consider whether they would need to register as broker-dealers. This includes issuers that purchase their securities from investors, as well as issuers that effectively operate markets in their own securities or in securities whose features or terms can change or be altered. The so-called issuer's exemption does not apply to the personnel of a company who routinely engage in the business of effecting securities transactions for the company or related companies (such as general partners seeking investors in limited partnerships). The employees and other related persons of an issuer who assist in selling its securities may be "brokers," especially if they are paid for selling these securities and have few other duties.

Exchange Act Rule 3a4-1 provides that an associated person (or employee) of an issuer who participates in the sale of the issuer's securities would not have to register as a broker-dealer if that person, at the time of participation: (1) is not subject to a "statutory disqualification," as defined in Section 3(a)(39) of the Act; (2) is not compensated by payment of commissions or other remuneration based directly or indirectly on securities transactions; (3) is not an associated person of a broker or dealer; and (4) limits its sales activities as set forth in the rule.

Some issuers offer dividend reinvestment and stock purchase programs. Under certain conditions, an issuer may purchase and sell its own securities through a dividend reinvestment or stock purchase program without registering as a broker-dealer. These conditions, regarding solicitation, fees and expenses, and handling of participants' funds and securities, are explained in Securities Exchange Act Release No. 35041 (December 1, 1994), 59 FR 63393 ("1994 STA Letter"). Although Regulation M2 replaced Rule 10b-6 and superseded the 1994 STA Letter, the staff positions taken in this letter regarding the application of Section 15(a) of the Exchange Act remain in effect. See 17 CFR 242.102(c) and Securities Exchange Act Release No. 38067 (December 20, 1996), 62 FR 520, 532 n.100 (January 3, 1997).

6. Foreign Broker-Dealer Exemption (Rule 15a-6)

The SEC generally uses a territorial approach in applying registration requirements to the international operations of broker-dealers. Under this approach, all broker-dealers physically operating within the United States that induce or attempt to induce securities transactions must register with the SEC, even if their activities are directed only to foreign investors outside of the United States. In addition, foreign broker-dealers that, from outside of the United States, induce or attempt to induce securities transactions by any person in the United States, or that use the means or instrumentalities of interstate commerce of the United States for this purpose, also must register. This includes the use of the internet to offer securities, solicit securities transactions, or advertise investment services to U.S. persons. See Securities Exchange Act Release No. 39779 (March 23, 1998)

Foreign broker-dealers that limit their activities to those permitted under Rule 15a-6 of the Act, however, may be exempt from U.S. broker-dealer registration. Foreign broker-dealers that wish to rely on this exemption should review Securities Exchange Act Release No. 27017 (effective August 15, 1989), 54 FR 30013, to determine whether they meet the conditions of Rule 15a-6. See also letters re: Securities Activities of U.S.-Affiliated Foreign Dealers (April 9 and April 28, 1997). In addition, in April 2005, the Division of Market Regulation staff issued responses to frequently asked questions concerning Rule 15a-6 in relation to Regulation AC. See (Regulation AC is discussed in Part V.B, below.)


The two interesting passages to me are one, "Issuers whose activities go beyond selling their own securities, however, need to consider whether they would need to register as broker-dealers. This includes issuers that purchase their securities from investors, as well as issuers that effectively operate markets in their own securities or in securities whose features or terms can change or be altered."

and two, "In addition, foreign broker-dealers that, from outside of the United States, induce or attempt to induce securities transactions by any person in the United States, or that use the means or instrumentalities of interstate commerce of the United States for this purpose, also must register. This includes the use of the internet to offer securities, solicit securities transactions, or advertise investment services to U.S. persons."

To me this seems to mean that operating the GLBSE or listing assets would only be illegal if you were physically located in the USA. Of course, the US has laws which prohibit it's citizens from committing crimes while they are abroad; but if you're not a US citizen and not physically present in the USA, it seems that the only way to be guilty of a crime is to sell secutiries to people living in the USA.

98  Economy / Securities / program on: October 02, 2012, 01:51:21 PM
99  Economy / Securities / old on: October 01, 2012, 08:55:32 PM
100  Economy / Securities / announcement on: October 01, 2012, 04:56:31 AM
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