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2721  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 22, 2014, 04:49:35 AM
Surely there has to be a way that voting can be done so the the rich don't get a monopoly on power. 
Being rich doesn't make you smart. Just design a faster and more efficient bitcoin hashing processor. Nobody ever seems to dominate that field for long before a new technology comes along. Or find a cheaper source of energy and out hash everyone. Cheaper energy and faster computing technologies will be only two of many spinoff benefits of PoW.
2722  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin craze dying down? on: September 22, 2014, 03:36:26 AM
this time last year bitcoin went from $90 down to $70 and people were shouting that bitcoin craze was dying out.. then as october approached it went above $100, and then up up up.

you want to know why september-october is so important..

think about these three countries
thailand, costa rica, america.. then click this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year#Chart_of_various_fiscal_years

if your old enough to actually bother paying tax, then you will know

So this time last year the low was $70.
This year the low is $400
What will the low be at this time next year?

I'm guessing two thousand plus or minus ten percent.
2723  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Mixing Confusion on: September 22, 2014, 03:25:09 AM
I don't get it. Any electronic signal can be traced. Any broadcast signal can be triangulated. Therefor Bitcoins cannot be anonymous.
2724  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Personal Research on: September 22, 2014, 03:21:23 AM
This "theory" is so complex, only Satoshi could have invented it.  Grin
2725  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who's brave/stupid enough to invest their life savings into Bitcoin? on: September 22, 2014, 02:40:54 AM
it was only a Ponzi bubble. That is all. A fucking Ponzi bubble. I knew that but I was convinced about those guys saying it was not a Ponzi and I could still buy.
You call it a Ponzi (a form of illegal scam) to make yourself feel better about what was merely a bad investment on your part.

I'm sorry you got burnt but you need to take responsibility for your own actions!
I suspect you mean to say that this person overbalanced his investment portfolio into a long position rather than divesting. Long positions in Bitcoin are unlikely to get burnt.
2726  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BBC Paints Dark Wallet as working directly with ISIS on: September 21, 2014, 10:32:27 AM
Taaki is already on record he doesn't care if children build bombs. His idealism is monopolar.  I also realize that anarchists sometimes say outrageous things purely for shock value. That level of idealism may lead to actions that exemplify such claims. He is also too intelligent to do anything that stupid.
2727  Other / Meta / So tired of the same old re-posts on: September 21, 2014, 08:56:52 AM
That I want to re-post an old complaint about reposts.

Meta needs a subgroup for meta complaints about forums.
2728  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The single flaw in bitcoin on: September 21, 2014, 04:47:13 AM
Centralization of Bitcoin seems hard to avoid with how bitcoin mining works. Small companies are able to compete with larger cooperation due to faster decision making, patents on innovations, working climate, and so on. However, I see it very hard to get an edge as a smaller miner competing with larger mining operations, this should in theory make the network end up with only one or a few big miners.

In fact, individual miners with free electricity could lasts much longer in a hash war. When difficulty skyrocket, large mining operation have huge amount of electricity and cooling cost,  they will very quickly become unprofitable, unless all their cost in a few years are covered by a VC
Where can I find free electricity? I want gigawatts!
2729  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 21, 2014, 04:43:22 AM
how many bitcoin clones are there? has it affected the price of bitcoin what so ever? yet there are thousands of bitcoin clones and alt coins in general.. its a myth that alt coins dilute the value of the mother coin.

The PoW altcoin does not dilute the value of the lead coin, just because it is PoW based: You can easily copy the source code, but there is no way to copy the hash power, people already invested huge amount of real valuable resources to establish an enough large hash power. Since resources are limited, the miners will most possibly assign the resources to the most strong and mature coin

In a PoS system, the lead coin can still have the first mover advantage, but the late comers can create and mine more clones of it without too much resource, but you really can not tell the difference between them and why one of them worth more than the other. For PoW coin it is very easy to tell: The mining cost roughly decide one coin's value



your argument is made on the idea that all proof of work coins are of the same source code and have the same features.. so you can most certainly tell the difference.. the value of say nxt does not fall because 100 new clones of blackcoin came out..(not that they are of the same source).

the value of these coins is derived from the functions and features they provide and also to a very large extent the network effect they command. perhaps only among the straight clones of coin x you have a fair point.. but coin x would not be included in the equation. coin x actually benefits from the many clones because anyone who finds out about the clone would soon enough discover the mother coin leading to further adoption of the mother coin.. look how many people discovered bitcoin because of doge. you are basing your argument outside of the context of the 2.0 landscape in order for your argument to work.

also, imo the more coins that are created the better.. recently a trend has taken off where straight clones fail.. now it is also going the route that even coins written from scratch are failing very early on.. and the reason isnt that they are not innovating, it is that they are not innovating enough. the heat is rising in the altcoin race.. and there are only 2-3 main competitors that have any worth while odds of winning while the others are just filler.. people are starting to see that for a coin to succeed short, medium and long term it must be able to compete with the most innovative of platforms other wise people make a quick buck off the lesser coin in order to build their holdings in the platform they deem as the most likely to succeed and therefore strengthening the grater platform. those who cannot innovate enough, fall severely behind the pack and struggle to gain ground in any meaningful way. this is what negates your argument that a PoS platforms value can be depleted due to "clones" and the low cost of production.

if facebook released their source code and 1000000000 clones appeared that were exactly the same.. would anyone use anything other than the original? no, because that is what everyone is using and therefore gains value from the network effect it commands. just because 1000000 clones of facebook come out, it doesnt mean people become confused about what one to use or what its worth. but the network effect cannot protect something forever if something far superior comes along.. it will for a while but eventually it will be surpassed by the superior tech. look at bebo. it was the first social media to bring social media into mainstream as far as i know.. atleast it was where i live. it lasted a couple years value shot way up but then facebook, the younger better platform can along. it took a while for it to challenge bebo, but by the time it was seen as a genuine threat it was far too late to do anything about it. it was a better more innovative platform long before bebo fell to its knees. bebo could not innovate enough in a short enough time period and therefore facebook stormed the social network arena in a blaze of fire and bebo collapsed, and only remains today as a legacy of social networks.

the only thing holding bitcoin up as top dog right now and for probably a good while longer is its immense network effect which it has from a very long 4-5 year lead on all alts.. whether you like it not, bitcoin will fall just like bebo. and whether you like it or not, a technically more advanced and far more innovate platform is going to pick up where bitcoin left off and take over the globe in a blaze of glory like no other tech has seen before, and its going to be spectacular.

ps.. vested interests are a BITCH Wink Grin

+1

Bitcoin is the best.  (for now)

Bitcoin does not have the best tech.

Bitcoin has the biggest network so it is the easiest to use.  That is why it is the best.  

A coin spent and accepted is a real coin and a good coin.  

Many other coins have much better tech, but not nearly the network and end user points.  

Alt coins can't really be spent so they aren't worth much.

If/When one of these better techs gets a bigger network and more end points of sale, it will be very interesting to watch how it challenges bitcoin and probably usurps, but not completely displaces it.  

Better tech = faster, lighter, stronger, safer, easier, prettier, better, simpler, more adaptable, more options, and better meeting the needs of the world
If a PoW altcoin gets big enough because of technical superiority, Bitcoin will change its protocol. I just don't see any PoS protocol doing that.
2730  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 21, 2014, 04:29:44 AM
Gold has value because it is PoW.  Mining, securing, and transporting takes calories of energy. PoW should really be called Energy Backed. Energy is what backs the entire global economy. That's why the USD is called the petro-dollar. If money could be backed strictly by ideas, then my idea would be to have money shooting out of my ass.

So you're just going to ignore kodtycoon's very valid arguments? PoW does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoW coins. Just as PoS does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoS coins.

You are completely ignoring network effects, features, utility, infrastructures, ease of use, communities, innovation, developer dedication & skills, and resources (large market caps to pay for development/infrastructure).

There are many clones of Nxt and most of them are pretty much worthless. Only the ones with large communities and the most innovative ones have even a fraction of Nxt's market cap.

Furthermore, Gold has many other dynamics in play as to how it derives its price, just like cryptocurrencies.
The reason why there are not more PoW coins is because it takes work (money) to be able create (mine) PoW coins, therefore there is more risk if your coin does not catch on with the masses. With a PoS coin on the other hand it costs nothing to make (mine) the coins so there is nothing to stop someone from making 10 (or 100, or 1,000) PoS coins hoping that at least one will catch on. With PoW actual money needs to be risked in order to make the coin. This also speaks to the security of the coin because an attacker will need to invest actual money to attack a PoW coin while they will need to invest nothing (if it cost nothing to mine) to attack a PoS coin
It's actually very easy to start a new PoW coin. All you need to do is fork Bitcoin by mining a new Genesis Block. You can change the protocol more significantly, but it isn't necessary. The altcoins are unsuccessful because they haven't changed the protocol in a significant way and people haven't invested enough energy into creating them.
2731  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin starting to look more and more like TULIP BULBS of 1600s on: September 21, 2014, 03:30:08 AM
See my signature.
2732  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 21, 2014, 03:26:04 AM
So you're just going to ignore kodtycoon's very valid arguments? PoW does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoW coins. Just as PoS does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoS coins.

You are completely ignoring network effects, features, utility, infrastructures, ease of use, communities, innovation, developer dedication & skills, and resources (large market caps to pay for development/infrastructure).

There are many clones of Nxt and most of them are pretty much worthless. Only the ones with large communities and the most innovative ones have even a fraction of Nxt's market cap.
Yeah, that's why I think that the only PoS coin that will work is one that is marketed by a nation state and declared legal tender.

You are either bias, clueless, or in denial. I'm not sure which one, but I am done debating with you sense you lack logical reasoning skills. At least I am able to admit PoS has flaws, but to you PoW's shit doesn't stink and you are clueless as to how cryptocurrencies derive their value on the free market. You need to be more open minded to perceive reality accurately.
Welcome to my ignore list and please see yourself out of this PoW Bitcoin forum.
2733  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 21, 2014, 02:54:43 AM
Gold has value because it is PoW.  Mining, securing, and transporting takes calories of energy. PoW should really be called Energy Backed. Energy is what backs the entire global economy. That's why the USD is called the petro-dollar. If money could be backed strictly by ideas, then my idea would be to have money shooting out of my ass.

So you're just going to ignore kodtycoon's very valid arguments? PoW does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoW coins. Just as PoS does not give a coin value, otherwise there wouldn't be many worthless PoS coins.

You are completely ignoring network effects, features, utility, infrastructures, ease of use, communities, innovation, developer dedication & skills, and resources (large market caps to pay for development/infrastructure).

There are many clones of Nxt and most of them are pretty much worthless. Only the ones with large communities and the most innovative ones have even a fraction of Nxt's market cap.
Yeah, that's why I think that the only PoS coin that will work is one that is marketed by a nation state and declared legal tender.
2734  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / ELI5 how to make an electronic circuit untraceable on: September 21, 2014, 02:24:16 AM
Cryptocurrencies rely on modulating two-way transmissions that solve the Byzantine Generals problem. All two-way transmissions can be traced or triangulated using signal detection equipment. What rules of physics are being broken to say that a financial transaction can be completely undetectable and anonymous?
2735  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 21, 2014, 02:14:00 AM
Gold has value because it is PoW.  Mining, securing, and transporting takes calories of energy. PoW should really be called Energy Backed. Energy is what backs the entire global economy. That's why the USD is called the petro-dollar. If money could be backed strictly by ideas, then my idea would be to have money shooting out of my ass.
2736  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: It's about time to turn off PoW mining on: September 20, 2014, 01:16:11 PM
ps.. that photo.. you should be ashamed trying to use that as "ammo" against PoS.. its completely unrelated and god damn hypocritical. if anything that picture could be used in an anti-PoW campaign. as mentioned above, the amount of money spent on electricity and mining equipment would go a long way to helping those people and you try to use it as a weapon against proof of stake which doesnt waste valuable resources? not even to mention the rare minerals/metals/whatever that are required to build most electronics INCLUDING MINING EQUIPMENT that get mined in places like africa destroying their land and the workers getting payed so little they are basically slaves. fucking disgrace that you post a photo like that to try to further your anti-PoS campaign.. as bad as the god damn catholic church if you ask me.

god damn vested interests... thats all this is..
Like I said. Look at the photo. If it doesn't make you feel something horrible inside, then you lack mirror-neuron functionality and should go back to reading Ayn Rand books about how your selfishness will save the world. It has nothing to do with electricity or money. It has to do with fairness, equality, and justice. If you don't get that then we'll just disagree and I won't waste any more time on this thread. The reason I support PoS for states is because they have political processes to address these issue within that state. As a global currency there is nothing fair about PoS, so there is no equality or justice for egalitarian prosperity. PoW is meritocracy incarnate. Any lowly slumdog physicist (BBT ref) could design a new technology that improves PoW scientifically. It could even revolutionize technology and improve everyone's life. PoS offers no such incentive.

Corporations have not even tried to create a PoW and promote it because they know it is futile to muddy the waters. The VCs do promote and develop PoS coins because they are the new fad. They don't want to spend real money trying to compete directly with Bitcoin, because they know they would be throwing money away. So instead they hire shills to spread FUD about PoW hoping to break people's faith in it. Fortunately, they started too late because Bitcoin has now survived far worse disasters than anything they can dish out without being caught.

The only thing PoS does is cause people to go out of their way to pump their propaganda for their own personal blockchain. These threads have been escalating to the point of spam and they are getting worse. Whether they are paid shills or not, there is no reason to be here on a bitcoin forum making ridiculous claims. I will wait for a Fortune 100 company to develop and spend tens of billions promoting a PoS currency for my nation-state that will promise to make it legal tender before I will even consider allowing a closed group of people make decisions about my money and the money of my loved ones.
2737  Economy / Speculation / Re: That was the dead cat bounce of the 2014 last quarter capitulation on: September 20, 2014, 09:43:29 AM
The term "Dead Cat Bounce" when referenced with Bitcoin is so 2011.
2738  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Aren't Satoshi's coins a liability? on: September 20, 2014, 09:40:28 AM
Satoshi's coins have been discussed ad nauseum. So has anonymity. My take is that Satoshi deserves to be a bazillionaire as much as anyone when you consider the drug lords, arms dealers, and Apple executives.
2739  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-09-18] Bitcoin Core Developer Jeff Garzik Believes NXT is a “Scamcoin” on: September 20, 2014, 09:31:11 AM
Bitcoin consumes a lot energy to be generated. To save energy, POS, Nxt currencies are coming out. The cryptocurrency is evolving. Which will be winner is not known yet.
That's like saying we have poison coming out so you don't need to bother eating anymore.
2740  Economy / Speculation / Re: WAT on: September 20, 2014, 09:29:18 AM
as stated by adamstgBit in another thread "BTC is broken today...sorry for the inconvenience"

Completely false statement.

It was sarcasm
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