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So essentially an SC client will issue a 2 of 2 multi-signature transaction in which you deposit bitcoins. Your client will broadcast the transaction to the SC miners who will send you the SC address to send the bitcoins. It will then automatically send you an SC asset (or coin). Your SC key is then an encrypted version of your half of the bitcoin key. In order to decrypt your key you must transfer the SC into a conversion account this time purchased from a miner, and give it your Bitcoin address. The algo then automatically broadcasts the 2 of 2 transaction to your Bitcoin address. SC mining would convert coins back and forth by encrypting and decrypting the Bitcoin addresses with SC tokens.
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I still want to know, technically, how a side chain could work, including the ability to trustlessly, without an intermediary or a human-operated point of failure or control, move coins back and forth from the side chain, through some unbounded number of side chain transactions, and back to the main chain.
Me too. Key management is cumbersome enough with only one blockchain let alone having to handle multiple blockchains simultaneously. I've worked out a way to manage 1:1 bitcoin swaps using 2 of 2 multisignature transactions, but it would be worse than just using Bitcoin. |
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What is legal tender in the U.S.? To my knowledge only U.S. Dollars are legal tender. It should come as no surprise that bitcoin can't be used to pay taxes.
Some US states also include gold and silver as Legal Tender. https://statelegaltender.com/I am not a fan of legal tender laws generally. You can ignore them. Many US Federal buildings refuse USD and only take credit cards or personal checks. |
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Bitcoin price is now lower than it was a year ago. Still, honeybadger don't care. A year is just a number.
No, we still have two weeks at the current price level until that happens. But if we do... it's game over, I'm afraid  There is no game. Miners will keep mining. Spenders will keep spending. The market goes on and another cycle starts when people realize that Bitcoin survived yet another year. |
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Legal tender is only for paying debts. Simply demand payment in bitcoins up front and refuse dollars. Then dollars will go away because there will be nowhere to spend them.
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This is not very reassuring, nor would it want me to be comfortable trusting my hard-earned money at the marketplace. If an arbitrator must be "voted in" by existing arbitrators then someone could potentially buy up a lot of arbitrator accounts to create additional arbitrator accounts which would further the attacker's ability to scam. Seems pretty far stretched IMO. Keep in mind there will be a reputation system for arbitrator. Buying a lot of good reputation to make scams wouldn't last very long before any body figure it out and all reputations of these account will be affected. That would be a very costly and risky scam operation. Someone could buy up a bunch of accounts with positive reputation and these accounts with positive reputation would vote their "scam" accounts to be an arbitrator. The accounts that are purchased would continue to act honestly, but the accounts that were "voted in" would not be honest It would still require the scammer to highjack the whole voting pool. How many accounts would need a scammer to vote himself as arbitrator every single time? At what cost? It still seems far stretched to me. If the arbitrators that vote are chosen through a random process among the best reputations, that would make almost impossible such attacks. , use the accounts with good reputation "honestly", vote in additional accounts that can work as escrow, scam with the newly voted-in accounts, then sell the existing "honest" accounts at the same price they were purchased for (or potentially for more as they would have theoretically gained additional reputation by continuing to act honestly). This is a very similar vulnerability that PoS altcoins have  You still need to put a lot of money upfront taking the risk that you'll be able to sell all of them at the same rate. Again. It is pretty far stretch to assume someone will buy enough account to be able to highjack the whole pool. Excellent spelling there Einstein. you take the weight right out of your argument with poor spelling. Excellent capitalization there, Einstein. You take the weight right out of your trolling with poor sentence structure. |
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Thanks, that is a clear explanation of Side Chains. |
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Bitcoin price is now lower than it was a year ago. Still, honeybadger don't care. A year is just a number.
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Always important to listen to and be aware of all perspectives
Wrong. Always important to listen to and be aware of informed perspectives which clearly this tabloid journalist is not. |
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The recent mini crash is recovering. In come the trolls.
I don't see anything recovering? 344 - 360 at least shows a recovery into Rule of Thirds mode. We'll see stability and recovery in the 360-390 range. Just like the last month you mean? It's called rocking the baby. Baby Bitcoin needs this rocking motion to stay calm and not eat all the trolls. |
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The recent mini crash is recovering. In come the trolls.
I don't see anything recovering? 344 - 360 at least shows a recovery into Rule of Thirds mode. We'll see stability and recovery in the 360-390 range. |
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The recent mini crash is recovering. In come the trolls.
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nullc, in pm's with me, has admitted that there are cases where scBTC can be lost on SC's. i should've gotten into the specifics.
Yeah, SC is just Proof of Burn. Season of the Witch. |
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I don't understand how the peg will work.
Let's say 10 000 BTC are locked and give access to a SideChain, if that Sidecoin is more succesful than BTC then the Sidecoin could be sell for more than the peg on the open market. If the sidecoin fail than the sidecoin holder can exit the sidechain and retreive their old BTC.
So basically a sidecoin is an option and there is a massive incentive to leave the BTC blockchain to the sidechain and enjoy you free option, so basically this will destroy Bitcoin. What I don't understand?
If you leave to the sidechain, there is a chance the sidechain will explode in your face and take all BTC that have been moved to it it with it. But if not... The pegging will be done on-the-fly in-and-out as needed by the users. It will only need a small amount of bitcoins to start. If a better SC comes out, you can switch back to your bitcoins and switch to another SC anytime. If someone builds the uber SC, then a lot of people will switch, but the bitcoins will still exist just in case a better SC comes along someday. Bitcoin will not be destroyed because it is the primary liquidity for the SC. In fact it should drive the price of BTC up for cold storage purposes just in case the SC gets broken. Miners will be the sentinels for Bitcoin. Why BTC is the primary liquidity for SC? What prevent people to buy the SC on the open market with fiat? It will still have to be pegged with bitcoin or else it is a fiat altcoin. So Bitcoin will have not only the same value, but also the ability to magically convert to that SC or any other SC and thus the ultimate arbitrage between SC coins that can bypass exchanges. earlier i was trying to conceive a scenario where the mining fees required to transit the peg might become exorbitant thus negating the perfect arbitrage. what would happen if either BTC or scBTC is perceived to be in crisis and failing? anyone trying to get out from the failing unit might have to pay thru the nose to do so as the miner would be taking signif fee risk with a unit heading to zero. If it's open source there should be safeguards to keep those things from happening surreptitiously. But then again, it looks like we are only discussing theory and hypotheticals as it is unlikely SC will even get as far as Ethereum as anything more than an altcoin. |
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If you leave to the sidechain, there is a chance the sidechain will explode in your face and take all BTC that have been moved to it it with it. It will still have to be pegged with bitcoin or else it is a fiat altcoin. So Bitcoin will have not only the same value, but also the ability to magically convert to that SC or any other SC and thus the ultimate arbitrage between SC coins that can bypass exchanges. ^^This is how I understand it - the owner of the scBTC is always in control of the original BTC, it's just locked. A malfunction/default/shutdown of the SC doesn't effect your ability to unlock the original BTC. Correct me if I'm wrong on the following from a technical standpoint: A SC only references that the original BTC is continually "locked" in the correct way. As soon as it is unlocked the SC asset ceases to exist as well (regardless if the SC network is actively functioning) So in this case SC stands for Scam Coin. |
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There is no reason to trust anything financial on the web. If the website did not offer the open source script for you to check, then you put yourself at risk even by clicking on it.
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I don't understand how the peg will work.
Let's say 10 000 BTC are locked and give access to a SideChain, if that Sidecoin is more succesful than BTC then the Sidecoin could be sell for more than the peg on the open market. If the sidecoin fail than the sidecoin holder can exit the sidechain and retreive their old BTC.
So basically a sidecoin is an option and there is a massive incentive to leave the BTC blockchain to the sidechain and enjoy you free option, so basically this will destroy Bitcoin. What I don't understand?
If you leave to the sidechain, there is a chance the sidechain will explode in your face and take all BTC that have been moved to it it with it. i'm confused about this. i've heard different stories from, "it's not possible to lose your scBTC to a SC failure b/c you can always access the peg back to BTC" versus "you'll lose everything". then this from LukeJr: [–]Freemanix 2 points 7 hours ago What if the child chain is defunct/abandoned? How can I return my funds back onto parent chain? permalink save parent report give gold reply [–]luke-jr [-6] 3 points 7 hours ago Mining it yourself? There's potentially ways to do a unilateral transfer, but that's something beyond simple sidechains for now. So basically, SC is just an idea with nothing fleshed out. |
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I don't understand how the peg will work.
Let's say 10 000 BTC are locked and give access to a SideChain, if that Sidecoin is more succesful than BTC then the Sidecoin could be sell for more than the peg on the open market. If the sidecoin fail than the sidecoin holder can exit the sidechain and retreive their old BTC.
So basically a sidecoin is an option and there is a massive incentive to leave the BTC blockchain to the sidechain and enjoy you free option, so basically this will destroy Bitcoin. What I don't understand?
If you leave to the sidechain, there is a chance the sidechain will explode in your face and take all BTC that have been moved to it it with it. But if not... The pegging will be done on-the-fly in-and-out as needed by the users. It will only need a small amount of bitcoins to start. If a better SC comes out, you can switch back to your bitcoins and switch to another SC anytime. If someone builds the uber SC, then a lot of people will switch, but the bitcoins will still exist just in case a better SC comes along someday. Bitcoin will not be destroyed because it is the primary liquidity for the SC. In fact it should drive the price of BTC up for cold storage purposes just in case the SC gets broken. Miners will be the sentinels for Bitcoin. Why BTC is the primary liquidity for SC? What prevent people to buy the SC on the open market with fiat? It will still have to be pegged with bitcoin or else it is a fiat altcoin. So Bitcoin will have not only the same value, but also the ability to magically convert to that SC or any other SC and thus the ultimate arbitrage between SC coins that can bypass exchanges. |
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Be careful of web based programs. Many have been created as malware.
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I don't understand how the peg will work.
Let's say 10 000 BTC are locked and give access to a SideChain, if that Sidecoin is more succesful than BTC then the Sidecoin could be sell for more than the peg on the open market. If the sidecoin fail than the sidecoin holder can exit the sidechain and retreive their old BTC.
So basically a sidecoin is an option and there is a massive incentive to leave the BTC blockchain to the sidechain and enjoy you free option, so basically this will destroy Bitcoin. What I don't understand?
If you leave to the sidechain, there is a chance the sidechain will explode in your face and take all BTC that have been moved to it it with it. But if not... The pegging will be done on-the-fly in-and-out as needed by the users. It will only need a small amount of bitcoins to start. If a better SC comes out, you can switch back to your bitcoins and switch to another SC anytime. If someone builds the uber SC, then a lot of people will switch, but the bitcoins will still exist just in case a better SC comes along someday. Bitcoin will not be destroyed because it is the primary liquidity for the SC. In fact it should drive the price of BTC up for cold storage purposes just in case the SC gets broken. Miners will be the sentinels for Bitcoin. |
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