all of the "we want to make it right" talk, yet, their prices have not gone down, like every other competitor.  maybe $500-1000 on a $6000 rig, where the competition has cut their prices by half or more.

they still have the MPP up, catching more unsuspecting suckers.  if you are trying to do the right thing, take down the MPP page, or start making good on it.  that's what an ethical business would do.

i can understand being in business to make a profit.  that's the point of running a business.  but, there are ethical ways to do business, and there's this mess.  false advertising and price gouging.  

i know people don't have to pay those prices, and if they shop around, they would see the prices are way out of line.  but someone who is trying to remain competitive would lower them by a lot.  who in their right mind would pay $1500 for an 80GH rig with all of the lower cost, better performance options out there?  


the doubt and speculation of being a scam will not go away, until people start actually seeing your business operated in a manner that doesn't scream scam at the top of its lungs.  

it's really very simple.  nobody to blame but yourselves.  posts like this are not pulled out of the asses of random people, because "they are out to get you".  they are based on actual instances of people doing business with AMT, and getting screwed.

350+ pages, 6 months and still no working miners.

This is a fair point. But again the simplest thing would be to just get third party miners as suggested.


 FYI good job for all keeping things civil. There are certain people who I will name publicly (clenell) who hate that we are having a civil discussion. He keeps pming me and apparently others about how we are "sucking AMT's dick" Mostly referring to me really. I do happen to think having a civil discussion is necessary to get results. And AMT has been more forthcoming because of it. Hopefully now tho we get actual tangible results from it.

AMT is this 1.2T I am sending back just garbage? Can I simply dispose of it if it ships back to me? What the hell man.

I would like option 1. My order number is 1356. AMT please confirm that you saw this.

Hmm. the only thing I don't see at the dynatron site eg http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/product_detail_1.aspx?cv=1-4-216&id=94&in=0 is the thermal ratings... As in thermal resistance at least so you can figure out the temps vs power in.

Look at Wakefield for example http://www.wakefield-vette.com/products/forced-convection.aspx complete specs so you can get a handle on chip temps vs sink size vs cfm of air needed instead of just testing what looks good....

Um poking around that Wakefield site, at these power levels you really should look at their liquid cooling ideas http://www.wakefield-vette.com/products/liquid-cooling/liquid-cold-plates.aspx That would allow a very very compact THS-dense processor package and allow moving the radiator/fans(s) to wherever the PSU bank is...

Just a thought considering multi-TH miners are multi-kw...

Alright.   When can I expect the chips?   Send me tracking number.

greases fine for the back side only. Top side should have a gap filler eg Fujipoly's sarcon line or again Berquist Blue to actually embed the chip so ya pull heat from every sq micron of area ya can.

Actuallly, that dynatron setup looks pretty good, only concern would be the fan life, Tip: what kind of bearing used in the fan? Sleeve bearings do not like vertical applications and give like 1/2 or less of 'rated life' when ran vertical. Look for rifled or ball bearing.

since I'm on ignore, you won't see this.

cointerra knew their 2 TH miner was only 1.6 TH before they shipped it and they updated all their customers to the ongoing situation, and they offered their customers the chance to refund, or take delivery with some compensation from a future order.  those were the two choices, and if a customer didn't want a 1.6 th miner (itself, still timely delivered and still the fastest miner in town), then they could've opted for the refund.  there's no beef.   it was take it, as it was, or, have a refund.   

Your right, the thermal tape technobit uses is one of the reasons it the heat is dispersed well, but it coincides with its design of having the the top heatsink bolted to the bottom via 2 screws. Technobits boards in general are a pain in the ass because they are laid out for a 92mm fan, basically screwing any change of an after market solution to speed things up. So its again back the cnc guy to fix the problem right. The padding we'll be using is manufactured by Fujipoly, and isn't cheap what so ever, but it seems to cut it as well. Aside from the using the brick of aluminum martin uses which will take a week and half to source, we're looking to other faster options. We can actually use our surplus of heatsinks made for the swiss design, which does work, but we're still figuring out the best option for the top heatsink. And we've been playing around with dynatron stuff which seems to work and if we can buy it in bulk at a cheap price, it could be an option as well.

can I just cry at the ineptitude there...
Bigger heat sinks good start. Still relying on thermal tape to hod the weight in a most likely vertical orientation. bzzzzt... Could have at least provided a bolt or 2 so gravity doesn't do it's thing when the heat is on. btw, most TT is rated to around 350C (but loses strength long before that) so that got pretty damn hot to be showing damage.

Again, the Technobit pic of their hex miner shows Bergquist Blue thermal gap material encasing the top side of the chips/board area. Also make s very fine gripper of the heatsink once it cures in 12hrs. Bet there is also a bolt or 2 used just to make sure...

How about you give people that ordered 2, 1.2th miners a 3.2 and people who ordered 1 1.2th a 1.2.th and a 512.. Just a thought......

ok, i find this argument a little surreal.

let me play devil's advocate here.. and put forward an opposing viewpoint just for a moment.  I'm going to go for the extreme opposing viewpoint and show you what it can look like from another point of view.  indulge me please...   i will also use the devil theme a lot in these thoughts...

there's one striking difference in that list.  cointerra did.. actually ship!  and they shipped within a few weeks (not months) of the promised date.  and caught up their backlog very quickly (in weeks) and now ship from stock and shipped the may and june batches early (who even does that!?).

you can't say that bfl shipped anything ever, on time (monarch was promised in november, and we're now may and its still not shipping - even 6 months later.. and many people only ordered the monarch as a conversion because their original order for the 65nm single or mini rigs was taking more than 6 (and in some cases 12 months!!) and us suckers thought we could catch up on hash rate by letting bfl play the shell game one more time.  I'm one of the suckers - i ordered my bfl single in feb and received it in november after its value had diminished to almost zero!) - and bfl fight to the death to avoid giving any refunds - really pulling out all the stops to prevent anyone getting a refund...

hashfast promised october.. and we're now may and they're still not shipping and they're now talking june onwards (and not refunding either), vmc, er lost track of when they promised.. but they're still not shipping.   so whats your beef?  that they didn't accurately predict the performance and power consumption?  thats it?   and yet, they may be one of only very few bitcoin mining hardware companies to actually ship nearly on time?  and nearly to spec?

heck, even the golden boys kncminer have fallen out of favour. go read their forums.  they could do no wrong, with the first couple of jupiter batches... but when they started building out their huge data center instead of allowing customers to buy any more, under the pre tense of 'network protection' they started offending customers.. and now that they've delayed the neptune and offered everyone some poor second fiddle options that turned out to be less than acceptable (frankenjups arriving in pieces) and no longer allowing refunds.

And what about avalon?  oh yea, they also delayed and failed to ship most of batch 2 and all of batch 3.  and made people wait months while they hashed with it themselves.

you missed out a few.. how about bitmine?  promised october, and still not shipping to this day.  and no refunds.   blackarrowsoftware?  and a whole slew of others I've forgotten to mention...  

and you claim cointerra overcharged?  you think so?  they were and still are one of the cheapest thats actually shipping.  their price per gigahash back when they took the orders was way less than anyone else's at the time - way less than what hashfast charged ($14/gh), and kncminer charged ($17.5/gh).. and what did cointerra charge most of the customers?   most of them paid a little over $3/gh, except the first batch, that paid a little more (and were compensated by getting two machines instead of one, AND front of line delivery).   at the time of sales, and yes, even at the time of delivery.. cointerra was one of the lowest cost miners - per gigahash - on the market so you can't possibly argue they overcharged when compared with everyone else they were much much less expensive.

So go take a look at the bitcoin mining hardware companies out there - and make a list - and lets pretend the awful ones are in hell and the perfect ones are in heaven, and you tell me where cointerra is on that scale.  they sure aren't the devil.  maybe they're not a saint either, but they're nowhere near the bottom of the pile compared to most of the company they keep.   whose in heaven?  spondoolies maybe (but they're very recent and weren't shipping until recently).  what about asicminer?  sure, they're good.. but they've been uncompetitive for awhile and their prices per gigahash and power consumption made cointerra's look like the biggest bargain ever.

then there's the refund policy.  sure, they didn't encourage refunds.. but everyone who took delivery of their underperforming miner was offered a refund, or had the chance to get a refund instead of a delivery of the miner.  AND everyone who took delivery was offered compensation in the form of discount on a future order.   So, you really think you can sue them even though your ultimate recourse was to ask for a refund and you wouldve got one (as several customers did)- cointerra is one of the only companies i know of who allowed refunds (not encouraged them, mind, but allowed them)...   then there's the sales contract and terms and conditions?  if you ordered something from cointerra, then you agreed to their t's & c's when you placed the order.  it specified that if you have a beef with them, you work it out in arbitration.  that doesn't allow you to do a class action.  you have no grounds to do it.  or are you going to lie in court and say you ordered it from their online store without agreeing to their terms and conditions of sale?

ok, there's my devils advocate thoughts.  i hope i could show that there's two sides to every story.

I will take option 1. I don't need a refund but just want to get mining. My original order number was 849. Thank you for your options and suggestions. Is it possible I can get my miner soon? I know you guys have had a lot of stuff thrown your way. Please let me know if I can get my miner soon via this forum.
Thank you AMT!

Send me the 50 Coincraft chips and you then I'll send you the miner.  That's the deal.

Don't like it,  then I'll invoke the MPP and demand 96 chips instead.

Option #9 - Buy those of us who have been suffering a single spondoolies at 1.4Th/s cost is only $4,000 (I will have it hosted myself not to complicate things). It is much cheaper, and I have a great contact over there. We win because we get the miner, you win because this will cost you significantly less than $6,000. Maybe they can also get you a deal where the miners are even cheaper than that if you buy in bulk. Just a side note, the deal will not involve me since I don't work for either company. The other $2000 we can figure out later

Honestly, the 96 chips pay back sounds like the best solution.  You get like 2.4 THs of chips and you can go over to technobit to build the solution.   I like that idea.

So AMT,  how about shipping me 96 Coincraft A1 chips as compensation for the $6,000 I paid you?

Well true,  that's because the AMT boards don't have room to add a bigger heat sink.   The capacitors are in the way.

Interesting... found this in Bitmine forum:



Notice how much bigger the heat sink is on this.  Also,  the customer claims that the unit blew up because the heat sink fell off.

Apparently those heat sinks are very important.  No wonder both Technobit and Dragon have huge heatsinks on the side of the chip.

As unprofessional as this one is about to be, we'd like to get some opinions from the community because the majority of you seem to understand our situation to a degree. Also most of the current thread members have stuck in there, and we know that others which supported us once are most likely still watching, just to see what happens in end. We believe the majority of you knew we had everyone's best interest at heart and never meant for things to go this far south. You've also seen the many curve balls that have been thrown our way and can understand where were at. Others just think we're FOS and want to sue. Either way, it is what it is.  

As transparent as we'd like to be and scream to the world as to why some work and some don't its not the legal moment for that, but it will come in due time. It's not Bitmine's fault if that's anyone's thought btw. We still love those swiss bastards despite their lack of support due to their shit storm. Below are some options we're thinking about offering and above all we are trying to keep it as uncomplicated and as simple as possible. Some of them help us stay in business (like transferring to hosting) others take us quickly out of business, like immediate refunds. In the end we'll choose what seems most viable and whats best for the group. Some of you have helped our company find the answers to problems we didn't see by reading your posts, others have contributed great ideas and advice that made the drawing board/game plan but that were never implement due to the simple factor of too much to accomplish with not enough people and the strategic curve ball or protagonist popping up each week. Some of the members have harassed us, bullied us and tainted our name on google to the point where if you search our company all you'll find is "Scam this and Bitcoin that". Others have spent hours on the phone with us  consulting us and discussing the situation to the point where clear logical objectives became apparent, while others drank with us in person, picked up their miners and helped even further there after knowing where we are at, despite the fact they may have lost. These characteristics of some of these community members counter the loathed trolls that still bother us to this day. All in all, we value you're opinions, and appreciate those of you which have stuck in this with us this far, and please know it won't be forgotten.  It is because of those individuals that we wont declare bankruptcy to get out of a lawsuit, that we'll fight to stay in this and that we'll continue to do our best to triumph in the end.

In most cases these hypothetical options would apply to all customers as a choice. (Again we'd just like to get our client's reactions and what may seem satisfactory)

1. Receive your miner immediately - with a 1.2hash rate or maybe a bit more. Immediately being end of this week.
2. Receive a different design - which is based on individual smaller miners, not in a case per-say, but similar to a Klondike model instead. Again for the hash rate at the time of purchase.
3.Transfer to hosting - order's/miner's to hosted option with a 20% increase, electric being billed monthly or deducted from earning, which would be again be a somewhat immediate (week or so) delivery.
4. Opt in payback. For a 6 month payback program if your order is for 2 miners or less. 12 months if your order is for 3 miners or more. Receiving a check each month for the fractionated amount in suggestion or btc each month for the amount of btc you paid.
5. Receive chips + 10. ie - if your miner was a 1.2th you would receive 50 A1 chips. <- we don't expect many to choose that one and if several do then it may counter previous options.
6. Trade in for script. - If we launched sales of a 10-11k script miner with a 70m hash rate with a 7 day delivery, your orders monetary credit would be applied to that from a price point perspective. With the choice to hold that option as the price decreases in time of course.

Yes the above options are not glamorous, and it wont end in a settlement for 3-4 times your original investment as expected, but neither will the suit which is why we push those negative individuals towards it anyway, because you cant get blood from a stone no matter how hard you hit it. But these are feasible realistic options based on our current fiscal situation, on the market's conditions and on the connections we've made along the way which are willing to help us pull through and stick around, because they too still know what we're capable of if we can get our heads above water. And if we're all fucked anyway due to market conditions and current pricing based on consumer demand, than strategic partnerships encompassing something similar to Nash's game theory, may be the only means of mutual success, and we'll just have to create new markets.