Stop using the same argument over and OVER again. That means I can also say it's up more then 1000x from the start. If solidcoin would replace bitcoin, that doesn't mean there can't be price bubbles ... Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that this entire decline has been a "price bubble"? This has been an out-right depression, and anyone thinking anything else needs to go read a book on economics. What he's trying to tell you, as if you didn't know already, is that this is a decline only if you start counting from June of 2011. But if you start counting from 2009 this is a 100,000 percent rise. Are you a fool or just playing one for your own interests? |
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Heh... Richard Feynman, who was instrumental in developing quantum electrodynamics, once famously said that "if you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory". I hope the same thing applies to quantum computing.  |
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solid coin is solid
Wow, they were lucky to call it that then. Imagine if they had called it Softcoin or something... no soldiness  |
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Give the guy a break guys..
He's JUST out of the gate and your slashing his legs..
That's a complete misreading of the situation. Piper67 and I have been nothing but helpful. Yeah, Teflone. I think we actually slightly improved his standing. I'm Canadian and want nothing more than to have multiple exchanges here and operating in CAD. I think julz clearly identified what most of the community would have seen as a potential problem, it was addressed, and I for one am happy with the response. I wish them all the luck in the world, believe me. And I'll keep an eye on them and possibly use them if I feel comfortable enough with their level of seriousness and professionalism. |
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Consider bitcoin like gold or another thing and problem solved.
As long as you don't sell them for dollars, you can keep them, no need to pay taxes or what else. If i barter water for food do i have to pay taxes for that? No.
Actually, I have a feeling that if you had a food stand in the middle of the desert, and quoted prices in litres of water, at some point the IRS (in the USA) would come knocking. Not sure what value they would assign to a litre of water, but they'd certainly want their share. |
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> There's no data set in which a trader has ever outperformed chance. Ever.
To know this would require knowledge of all details of every trading decision ever made. Obviously you don't have such knowledge, and neither does anyone else. So why do you keep stating stuff as fact when everyone knows that you are in no position to know that? As an aside, can *you* actually define precisely what "outperforming chance" means?
> If you want to claim differently I urge you to source that information. Please.
Many people have given your examples of how you can beat the market. e.g. investigating company fundamentals that others haven't noticed e.g. spotting patterns that nobody else has. Contrary to what you claim this is not illegal at all.
> There's still a Nobel Prize waiting
No, there is no Nobel Prize for beating the market. You would also not win a Nobel Prize in economics for beating the market, because you would not be showing anything surprising. There are no serious economics who believe that markets are 100% efficient. Highly efficient, maybe, 100% efficient, no.
Your claim is that there is no statistical pattern in any data and that all information about all companies is spread across the whole market. This is an extraordinary claim that I don't see you backing up with any data at all.
The chance that, out of the entire universe of traders, the precise number who beat the market should beat it. If there was such a formula you'd have EVERY trader beat the market. The best a trader can claim is that, within the realm of chance, he or she is the one that consistently achieves these results. But the point being made is that if you had a similar number of monkeys as you do traders, and they based their decisions on throwing darts at a map, you'd consistently get a similar number of monkeys beating the market as you do traders... so there is nothing statistically significant in having analysis charts versus throwing darts at a map as a strategy. And actually there is a Nobel Prize for this, if you were to be able to prove it. It's called the Nobel Prize for economic science (bit of a misnomer there). |
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It's waste, and regressive is normally used to describe those who are for rolling back and 'regressing' to an earlier or more primitive time, such as that when we had no labor laws or regulations.
I'd label anyone who is promoting the same tired, old, centralized, political, one-size-fits-all solutions to humanity's problems as regressive. A "progressive" ought to be someone searching for peaceful, decentralized, peer-to-peer ways to organize and assist humanity. That may be your point of view, so this is not meant as a criticism. Hmmm... humanity has many problems. I think some of them are better addressed in a centralised way, and some in a decentralised one. There is something to be said for centres of learning, for example. The problem isn't necessarily with the notion of centralisation, but with the idea of a central authority. Complete decentralisation? We had that, about 100,000 years ago. It worked, but not so well. Maybe a model with many centres, but essentially decentralised? A universe where any one point is the centre, and equidistant from the edges. Ack, we need a philosophy sub-forum. |
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Why not this:
If the client is ran for the first time, only grab the most recent block. And, from there on out...grab the latest blocks.
If the client has been ran before, only grab the blocks from when their client first started.
If the user so-happens to want all the blocks, they would easily just be able to do -rescan.
^ How about that?
Yes, can't the client "trust" the network with the majority of the block chain as a default, and only download the whole thing when specifically requested to do so? |
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Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling. At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down. Correlation does not imply causality, Hugo. Yes, at the beginning the forum was more respectful. And yes at the beginning there was a higher proportion of libertarians in it. But the two aren't necessarily related by cause and effect. The fact is this is a very lightly moderated forum, Bitcoin's profile and popularity is rising, and the very idea of a currency/commodity like Bitcoin is such that it creates an impassioned response from most people (for or against). Most people out there are just not smart or deep enough to present cogent arguments for anything, let alone something as complex as a cryptocurrency, so they become childish trolls. And some may have a hidden, or not so hidden, agenda. You're a libertarian, I'm more of a humanist, but I'm sure if we were in the same room we could have a very intelligent, honest and respectful argument about all sorts of things... in English or in Spanish |
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But anyone with a brain, and an even superficial understanding of economics, history and politics, understands that the long term viability of the US dollar is, at the very least, seriously in question.
Couldn't agree more on that one. By the same token, the viability of a decentralised, uncounterfeitable, infinitely scalable and fungible, instantaneously transmissible, open-source, cryptographically secure currency, in the long term, is looking rather rosey.
Yeah, if we ever come across such a currency, it might have a good chance. But for the centralized (MtGox + the two largest mining pools = not decentralized), userunfriendly, perfect-for-scammers, slow transmissible (sorry people in line... this customer is waiting for his 6 confirmations...), underdeveloped currency that bitcoin is... not much chance. I had most of my bitcoins before I ever opened an account with MtGox. I agree on the user unfriendliness, perhaps it will be partially resolved by the time we have Bitcoin version 1.0 (you do realise we're not even there yet), but there are already solutions popping all around to make it more user-friendly, from Bit-Pay to instawallet, flexcoin and vibanko. All viable. I have sent and received payments through the network in a matter of minutes, but for the people in stores, see my previous comments about Bit-pay, instawallet, flexcoin and vibanko. Look, I have no bone to pick with the notion of Bitcoin being at the early stages of its development, and with the idea that it could go ridiculously well, ridiculously badly or somewhere in between. But when looking at it, I expect a level of depth and analysis that goes beyond: "this is play money without value and you guys are stoopid". That means either you lack a brain, or that you have ulterior motives for interacting with a forum devoted to this idea. |
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Actually, it'd be a bit insane to be keeping lots of money in US dollars right now, but luckily that's not where I live, so it isn't a great concern to me.
Ok, so we agree that it is not smart to keep money in something that is not very stable. You seem to think the dollar is not very stable. Since I do not see a lot of US based businesses immediately exchanging all the money they receive into euros, yens, Chf or gold, I think we can assume that bitcoin is a WHOLE LOT less stable than the US dollar, since I have yet to see any real business that accepts bitcoin and NOT immediately exchanging it. And why is that? Because everyone knows bitcoins have no real value. No, again, you really need to be careful about putting words in other people's mouths. It isn't the instability of the US dollar that concerns me, it is the absolute lack of sustainability for the US economic model. You also don't see business immediately exchanging their money into palladium, yet from a point of view of value, few would argue it is a LOT more valuable than other things out there. Businesses transact in whatever currency is least complicated for them to transact in. So yes, in the US, lots of businesses deal in US dollars, because it's what's around them and because there are lots and lots of US dollars. It doesn't mean the US dollar is necessarily more or less valuable than other currencies, gold, Bitcoin or what have you. It means that, for now, it is more viable (sounds like valuable, but means something else, look it up). But anyone with a brain, and an even superficial understanding of economics, history and politics, understands that the long term viability of the US dollar is, at the very least, seriously in question. By the same token, the viability of a decentralised, uncounterfeitable, infinitely scalable and fungible, instantaneously transmissible, open-source, cryptographically secure currency, in the long term, is looking rather rosey. |
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On top of this there is ZERO COMMISSIONS Trading on BITCOIN-CENTRAL.NET
So what is your business model then? People who put money into your system would surely like to know you have a mechanism to make enough money to cover costs and unforeseen issues. We are an established exchange and have provided FREE open source platform for Trading. We are now serving the Bitcoin community by providing ZERO COMMISSION TRADING. Building a brand is not always about earning money.Nope, but building a business usually is. Are you saying there's zero trade commissions for now, but once your volume increases you'll start charging them? Nothing wrong with that at all. What Julz was asking was what is your business model... We tend to trust people who have one, and distrust those who don't. Piper/Julz: Thank you for your quote. We haven't decided a date for charging any commissions yet. It will be free for at least the next couple of months. After that we will charge a fee which will be quite less compared to the market, just enough to cover basic costs. We are also doing some Research in providing new exciting services for the Bitcoin Community. If there are any services/features that you would like us to add, feel free to let us know. Regarding Security: Have you tried using our two factor Google Authenticator? Please give it a try. I hope this answers your questions. Excellent, that makes sense. Thanks. |
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We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value
Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it. In a long list of silly posts, this has to go be among the silliest. So if BitPay was offering a way of turning gold donations into US dollars, you'd be saying gold has no value? Philosophically, I'm with you, NOTHING has inherent value. But for the purposes of this discussion, it's just stupid. You know just as well as all the others here that no sane person living in the real world would keep his money stored in bitcoins. Which is something that was clearly shown again by Bit-pay. I am sure that if we would send our donations in gold to mr Bit-pay he would be a lot less hasty to immediately exchange them for dollars. No, I don't know that. I do know what the trading volumes at the exchanges are. I also know what I am doing. And as best I can tell I am a sane person and living in the real world. So please don't put words in my mouth, or those of other sane people out there. Actually, it'd be a bit insane to be keeping lots of money in US dollars right now, but luckily that's not where I live, so it isn't a great concern to me. |
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On top of this there is ZERO COMMISSIONS Trading on BITCOIN-CENTRAL.NET
So what is your business model then? People who put money into your system would surely like to know you have a mechanism to make enough money to cover costs and unforeseen issues. We are an established exchange and have provided FREE open source platform for Trading. We are now serving the Bitcoin community by providing ZERO COMMISSION TRADING. Building a brand is not always about earning money.Nope, but building a business usually is. Are you saying there's zero trade commissions for now, but once your volume increases you'll start charging them? Nothing wrong with that at all. What Julz was asking was what is your business model... We tend to trust people who have one, and distrust those who don't. Exactly. You would build your brand by giving us confidence that this is not just a hobby - that it's in fact a viable business. Nobody will begrudge you making a profit. It's in the customers' interests that you have enough money to grow,develop your systems and pay yourself so that you actually have an incentive to run a great business. It costs money to run anything of any decent scale. 'Zero commissions' implies that you either don't expect to grow much,or you intend to change your fees later, or you have some other revenue stream associated with the site e.g advertising. Whatever the case - inspire confidence by letting us know how you intend to cover things such as your operating costs and growth. Remember - mybitcoin was run on a no fees basis, and as it was (probably) just a profitless sideline or hobby for the operator.. customer support was awful, and obviously keeping abreast of security issues wasn't a priority. (This is giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming it wasn't a scam from the outset) A free intro period is fine to help you get volume up - but be open about it and let people know there may be fees later. For example you could tell us that even when fees come in you intend to be highly competitive with other Bitcoin exchanges. Actually, julz, I think MyBitcoin was very much run on a "for profit" basis, at least for one person. BTW if you check your inbox you'll see a message from me regarding a PR idea, I'd like to know your thoughts. Cheers, |
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We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value
Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it. In a long list of silly posts, this has to go be among the silliest. So if BitPay was offering a way of turning gold donations into US dollars, you'd be saying gold has no value? Philosophically, I'm with you, NOTHING has inherent value. But for the purposes of this discussion, it's just stupid. |
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Perhaps we should make a difference between something not being legal, and something being illegal.
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The non-aggression principle can be applied or ignored by both atheists and religious people. There is no monopoly on rationality and life is simply to complex to claim that you are rational on all fronts. Remember one of the least rational and most destructive systems ever was sold as "rational" and run by atheists, unless I've just misread this whole thing about the soviets and they were all closet Catholics.
Currently the truest and most consistent libertarian with any political power is a Christian named Ron Paul.
The problem that I see with most secularists is that they don't see that secularism is just as much a religion as any other. And I find individual fundamentalist secularists to be at least as annoying as fundamentalist christians or muslims or jews, maybe a bit more. In aggregate though, they are much worse because it is apparently socially acceptable to loudly display secularism as a status marker in bars. Let me get this straight. So everything is a religion? There is no atheism? Gimme a break! You've never met anyone that had serious faith in their atheism? No, I see how you may find this hard to understand, but atheism is the opposite of faith. I don't have faith in atheism at all. All I need is one simple proof of the existence of the supernatural, that would stand up to the most modest form of impartial scrutiny, and I'm sold. No such proof has ever been produced, though. Atheism is not the assertion that there is no god. It is the idea that a deity of some kind is not necessary to explain the universe around us, and that the introduction of the deity makes it far more difficult to explain it. Same reason I (and presumably you) don't believe in fairies, djinns, bad ju-ju spirits or the Pachamama. |
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On top of this there is ZERO COMMISSIONS Trading on BITCOIN-CENTRAL.NET
So what is your business model then? People who put money into your system would surely like to know you have a mechanism to make enough money to cover costs and unforeseen issues. We are an established exchange and have provided FREE open source platform for Trading. We are now serving the Bitcoin community by providing ZERO COMMISSION TRADING. Building a brand is not always about earning money.Nope, but building a business usually is. Are you saying there's zero trade commissions for now, but once your volume increases you'll start charging them? Nothing wrong with that at all. What Julz was asking was what is your business model... We tend to trust people who have one, and distrust those who don't. |
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You guys are awesome. Not a week goes by without you coming up with yet another solution. Nicely done!
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Do you really need a lesson in the differences between a Parliamentary monarchy and a republic? Harper won a majority government with a ridiculous MINORITY of the votes.
I know how that works all too well living in the province I do. Oh, and go ask Canadian conservatives if they want to do away with health care, deregulate and invade foreign countries, the way neo-cons do? They'll look at you like you have two heads.
With King Harper in power, with a majority, it doesn't much matter what the people want, Conservative or other wise. I won't derail this thread anymore with an issue by issue debate on Canadian politics but I thank god that Straussian* wasn't in power when dubya tried to get us to join him in Iraq. *edit/ and also this one from the other side of the country: Harper, Bush Share Roots in Controversial PhilosophyI agree with you that we dodged a massive bullet, Harper and Dubya at the same time would have been a perfect storm of unintelligence. Nevertheless, let's give Canada a tiny bit of credit. Even Harper is pretty subtle in the ways in which he's trying to undermine us from within... it might change when some of our Supreme Court judges have to retire. But you're right, let's not derail this thread. My bad for making assumptions. I apologise. PS: By the way, you do know that technically, only a majority of the constituents in just one riding voted for Stephen Harper, right? I mean, he's not a president, just one more MP with a little bit more clout than the rest... |
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