Gold is down, equities are stabilizing.
Bitcoin is heading south for the winter. I predict $9.50 by the end of the day.
Nice volume at Mtgox. Good to see bitcoin actually being used for something.
Gold was due for a hefty drop. Nothing surprising there except the price is still too high. Stocks.. well the economy is not exactly humming along in all sectors. To be expected. As for bitcoin, what I want to figure out is where I should buy back in. $9.50 does not appeal to me at all. $8.00 sounds better to me if I decided to buy back in or just transfer my USD out to do other things with it. Mining will quickly add more USD back in, in a couple of weeks. I'm ready for 7-8 again. random theory time! I had a similar theory when the rally pushed us to 12 the upper resistance, trying to get people to panic buy, since if it passed that range it could have went to 16 quicky, but it held, and the potential manipulator failed,(or not  ) what if this is the reverse, the bot's 1000's of trades cueing everyone else's orders, was to glog things up to stop buyers, deliberately to get the price down close to a psychological barrier thinking people will panic sell, and he could accumulate at 10, and the market would go back up after, possibly causing people to think this is as cheap as they are going to get causing panic buying, maybe getting to 16's, somebody keeps putting buy's in at 10.01 ect in the 500 btc range, when they sell, he put's more back just a fraction over 10, but not adding to the 10 wall so keeping the fear going. professional traders don't mess about, it's not a game, our inexperienced traders in an unregulated market must be christmas every day for them just a theory remember Yup, every market move can be seen as two diametrically opposite forms of manipulation. And this is just for the data we see! The data we don't see is just as important, and is a "known unknown" to quote a famous idiot Until I win the lottery and can afford to manipulate the market myself, I just have to ride it. In the end, Bitcoin will sink or swim on its fundamentals. The manipulators can make that happen earlier or later than it would, but I doubt at this stage they can be the only factor on whether Bitcoin thrives or fails in the long run. |
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I will notify the webmaster to edit the logo or link on the site, thanks for the suggestion!
Great! I for one think one way to spread the word about Bitcoin is to get more NGO's and charities to start accepting it as donations. I'd LOVE to be able to donate some to Unicef, but when I wrote them about it, they said they have no plans to start taking BTC!!! If this works out for you, it would be great if you could spread the news to Make A Wish in the US, Canada and other countries. Cheers, |
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Hi Amanda: This is a wonderful idea. As soon as you put a Bitcoin icon on your website, linking to the address you list in your post, I will be the first to donate (provided no one else beats me to it). And if you're not Amanda and you have nothing to do with the Make A Wish Foundation and are simply trying to make some free BTC from donations, there's a special place in hell reserved for you  |
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I don't like the audio  The audio is bad... what Stefan is working on is really good, although I got most of it from his appearance on the Bitcoin Show, not so much from this talk. |
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Hey! Thanks for your great comments! :-) What do you think, how cheap could a hardware solution based on this be put together? I'm thinking old, used laptop (maybe an Eee PC) plus smallish external monitor. Maybe all in all for $150? Maybe less? .. I think we could reach the point, where this is a straightforward and
Jav, your work is really exciting. but the space is a problem. If a merchant has to find a place for another PC or Laptop in their store, it will not be the ultimate solution. I'm not sure how much of an issue the space requirement really is. I mean, a cash register can be pretty clunky as well. But it all depends on the situation I guess, and I agree, that a smaller solution would be much nicer. One reason this is open source is to be able to iterate towards a better solution. I think there are many options to be explored: Maybe a Sheevaplug could be used in combination with a USB touchpad and a USB display. Or maybe even a cheap Android phone to which a USB display is somehow hooked up (not sure how feasible that is, but I have seen some hacks in that direction). The latter would require to port the GUI parts to Android. There's green addresses, but also all other online wallet solutions seem to have instantaneous and free transfers within their system (flexcoin does, I think vibanko does as well, infamously mybitcoin used to use the feature as a selling point).
Instantaneous transfers among users of a specific service isn't really that special (Instawallet has it as well) and doesn't - in my opinion - really lead anywhere. Take the example of Flexcoin: Nothing against it, but merchants won't be limiting themselves to a small subset of possible Bitcoin customers. Unless that subset is close to all of Bitcoin customers and that is simply not going to happen. Bitcoiners are much too wary - and rightfully so - to let a single payment processor get so powerful. So what we need is an open protocol that allows to split this responsibility over multiple payment processors. It should have a fairly low barrier of entry for new payment processors and it should be easy to get rid of established payment processors should they start to become annoying. The green address technique is an attempt at formulating such a protocol. It could be implement by Flexcoin and Vibanko and the merchant would then see "Verified by Flexcoin" or "Verified by Vibanko" and it's up to the merchant to decide whether that's good enough. Would it not be possible to make that option accessible to the customer with a message that says: Do you have an account with Vibanko, Instawallet, MtGox, Tradehill (insert whatever new solutions might come here)? Then the customer can choose that particular QR code and the transaction is instantaneous. |
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It's the guy from the Dharma Initiative!
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Count on me for a few BTC as well.
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Heh... this is a repost, and the article itself is a rehash of a previous item on NPR (from well over a month ago), which makes this thread a repost about a rehash I figured you out, Piper67. You posted on this thread, not to just comment on the reposting of the rehashing, but knowing that I will come along to not only correct you (should have been: which makes this thread a rethread of a repost about a rehash), but to add an image. So here I is, to make sure I don't disappoint you. (BTW, nice post. Enjoy the image).  Bitcoin: An Idea Worth SpendingReally? A picture of a rethread? You sir (or ma'am) have a lot more time on your hands than me... It's really Sire. The e is silent (and invisible). I wasn't making fun of you, Piper. I truly enjoyed your post, hence taking time to comment on it. Perhaps this image would of made you smile:  Bitcoin: An Idea Worth SpendingOh, I never took offence, no worries at all. I really am impressed that you have a picture of a re-thread, though. Now, do you happen to have one of a monkey with a ouija board lying around somewhere... because we could use that one quite a bit on the speculation board |
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Heh... this is a repost, and the article itself is a rehash of a previous item on NPR (from well over a month ago), which makes this thread a repost about a rehash I figured you out, Piper67. You posted on this thread, not to just comment on the reposting of the rehashing, but knowing that I will come along to not only correct you (should have been: which makes this thread a rethread of a repost about a rehash), but to add an image. So here I is, to make sure I don't disappoint you. (BTW, nice post. Enjoy the image). Bitcoin: An Idea Worth SpendingReally? A picture of a rethread? You sir (or ma'am) have a lot more time on your hands than me... |
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Heh... this is a repost, and the article itself is a rehash of a previous item on NPR (from well over a month ago), which makes this thread a repost about a rehash |
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4 posts with 53 spelling errors. Yes, I counted them, but I'm no grammarian, let alone a Grammar Nazi. http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6060107/grammar-nazisI opted not to site any of the posts, but would like to bring one error to attention. I think this PR campaign should start with always capitalizing Bitcoin when used as a proper noun. But that's not what I came here to post about, although it was heavy on my mind upon reading the four posts. PR is very important in bettering Bitcoin's position. I applaud your efforts. Now an important note: Although bitcoinconsultancy.com is already taken, bitcoinconsultancy.org is available, and would clearly be the domain of choice for your endeavor. I hope that this relative information helps with the much needed PR effort. Two more: BitcoinRelations (.com or .org) & BitcoinSphere (.com or .org) Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending53 spelling errors? On my posts? Here, I must protest! I agree fully with capitalising Bitcoin, I often don't out of sheer laziness, but will make more of an effort from now on. Bitcoinworld.com/org and Bitcoininfo.org are not taken either. Really? 53 spelling errors? Would you care to place a little wager on that? |
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I was just watching Jeff Garzik's presentation at the Bitconf (really? Bitcon? was someone asleep?), and he mentioned the need for a PR effort to bring a higher level of bitcoin education to the general public.
As I happen to agree, and have a background in communication and journalism, it resonates with me.
So I thought we might start a discussion as to what this Bitcoin PR would look and feel like. Here are some ideas:
- A clearing house for expertise on the different aspects of bitcoin, that puts out regular press releases to media outlets, then guides the incoming queries through the appropriate channels.
- A repository of all previous coverage of bitcoin in the media.
- A proactive effort to contact levels of government, banking, trading, law enforcement, etc... towards showing that bitcoin, while truly revolutionary as a concept, isn't necessarily "dangerous" and can in fact be complementary to already existing policies, systems and paradigms.
- Perhaps some inroads into academia, to see if some bright students want to make bitcoin the object of their dissertation, or to channel the knowledgable people to give talks at universities and colleges.
Any other ideas? A name would be great... too bad Bitcoin Consultancy is already taken.
Or, this PR effort could be rolled into an existing entity, like Bitcoin Consultancy.
The key is that it has to be done professionally. So far, most attempts at bringing bitcoin to the public at large have had a certain whiff of amateurishness to them. We need to raise the bar a tad.
Cheers,
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You're missing my point. my point is that bitcoins haven't settled on any market defined value because currently the only reason they are worth so much is because everyone is going "hey I'm going to spend 10 dollars on bitcoins right now!" due to the speculators and hoarders, rather than because they're actively being used in a comercial aspect.
And your point again? The only reason gold is now worth $1900 is because enough people agree it should... Other than that, it's shiny, but it truly has far fewer uses than other metals less precious. |
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Lol, yeah, things that no one wants to keep are super valuable.
That implies bitcoin currently has real value instead of speculativity driven value. I just sent my friend in Dubai $50 worth of value. After clicking "send" I went to pee, and upon my return he had confirmed receipt of payment. Zero fees. What's your point? The bitcoins you had were only worth 50 dollars because speculators and hoarders drove the price high, rather than because bitcoins have any practical use at the moment other than converting them back into USD or otherwise. It's like saying "well this dust I picked up off the side of the road is valued at 50 dollars a gram!!" but only if you could find someone who's actually willing to pay that for it. And your point is? If the dust is gold dust, that's exactly what would happen. |
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I personally see Bitcoin as being most useful as a 'reserve currency' of sorts. I think it would be most useful as backing for a myriad of alternative currencies each with different inflationary properties, transaction fees, etc.
The alternative currencies would compete with one another and win or lose based on the usefulness to the users, and exchanges can easily keep track of things. The bitcoin backing the alternatives would rise or fall in value accordingly. This would produce a situation where the holders of the backing currency would be induced to use it in a way which benefits the users as well.
I believe that we are approaching the end-of-life of our current debt-based monetary systems and for a probably brief transition period will have a non-debt-based currency. Relative to Gold, I prefer bitcoin in the role of a reserve currency. The reason why is that if the reserve currency is abused to huge degree, and it is bitcoin, a majority of real users can render it useless by updating their software. This cannot be said for Gold which is inevitably hoarded and abused (and very difficult to shake out of the hands of abusers.)
These are, of course, my own personal thoughts on Bitcoin at the present time. I realize that they do not match the thoughts of others. I did not formulate or develop the Bitcoin solution. But then neither did almost any of you.
I have a feeling a good chunk of us actually agree with you, but the mantra of "stability so that bitcoin can become a viable currency" has been brandied about for so long in this community that it has become almost an article of faith. The fact is, bitcoin implies a paradigm shift, and one of the paradigms that has to go is the necessity for a currency to be stable... in a world where a price can be changed several hundred times a second, that simply isn't the case. |
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I hate to say this but this still suffers from all the issues that previous suggestions for point of sale stuff has, in that it takes a great deal of time comparatively to confirm the transaction is actually valid. People aren't going to wait around for a quarter of an hour after buying a stick of gum to wait for a transaction to verify.
Green addresses. Look it up. Confirmation can be instantaneous. There's green addresses, but also all other online wallet solutions seem to have instantaneous and free transfers within their system (flexcoin does, I think vibanko does as well, infamously mybitcoin used to use the feature as a selling point). Now if someone could come up with a "clearing house" kind of solution that includes all online wallets, as well as exchanges and regular wallets... they would make life a lot easier, no? |
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Let's assume for a second that the author's thesis is true - that people won't spend Bitcoins on day to day transactions. That's fine... a successful medium of exchange doesn't need to necessarily be used in such a way. Gold is a great example. It's not used ever in day to day trade, yet it's the most reliable and successful form of money in history.
The author misses that vast benefits of this technology exist regardless of day to day use. For example, the international remittance market. Even if the only long-term use of Bitcoin was for international money transfers, it would be enormously valuable. The Mexican immigrant in the US can transfer money to an exchange in his home country for a fraction of the cost of what he would pay with dollars and bank systems today (and the transfer could be done in 5 minutes, instead of 3-10 days). There is no need for him to be buying food and gas with Bitcoin for there to be value in the international transfer of funds. All that's required is a relatively stable exchange rate, and this will stabilize over time as the market grows and decides the value of Bitcoins. There have already been days where BTC was less volatile in percentage terms than the USD. Consider that in an efficient market, the immigrant's USD could be sold at the exchange in Denver, then transferred via Bitcoin to Mexico City, and then converted to Pesos at the Mexican exchange in the span of a few minutes (using trusted "green addresses") - in such a case even volatile exchange rates are not a big deal.
"Hoarding" of Bitcoin may perhaps be a hindrance to daily use, but daily use is but a fraction of Bitcoin's potential value.
Precisely... I venture to say that if there were only ever going to be 21 million tulips in the world, that you could not ever forge a tulip, and that you could send them instantaneously around the world... tulips would still be worth a whole shipload of money |
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Lol, yeah, things that no one wants to keep are super valuable.
That's the blessing and the curse of this... if everyone keeps hording them and not spending them on stuff.. it's not a currency it's a speculator market .... if people start spending them then of course it becomes a currency. It's up to the bitcoin community on how it proceeds.... in my opinion it needs to turn into a useful currency or else it becomes tulip mania. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_maniaI respectfully disagree. The key to adoption in large numbers will be at least a perceived notion that bitcoin's value will rise. This obsession with stability is very misguided. Nobody has a true incentive to engage with a perfectly stable currency or commodity of any sort. A steady, continuous rise in price, on the other hand, will act as a constant lure to people to engage with bitcoins, learn about them, then buy some... once people HAVE bitcoins, they will start to use them in transactions. Not the other way around. Of all the incentives bitcoin has to offer to the masses out there, it is its deflationary nature that will appeal to most. The uncounterfeitable aspects of it, the fact that it's decentralised and can be transmitted around the world almost instantly for almost no fee at all... that doesn't come close to acting as an incentive for the vast majority of people. A rise in value will. Oh, and if you truly compare it with tulips, you haven't read enough about either bitcoins or tulips... which I'm sure is not the case, so let's not make silly comparisons, shall we? Cheers |
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I can't remember the name of the guy and his company but who was that guy at the conference that made the announcement that he was selling basically "anything" on his new site with coins? Anyone have that URL? I think it was basically an amazon of bitcoin.
That was probably http://www.bitcoindeals.com/ . Yes, it could be, as soon as it goes live. |
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Can you people please stop having serious discussions in my troll thread.
LOL |
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