Anyway, here's what I meant:  This is what happens when you are following the hype. It is a screenshot from a FB "virtual friend" who is "crying" on his timeline now. LBC is not mentioned in the thread, but can be included in the current hyped projects as well. What happened with others since I started the thread? Monero is down by ~20%, SDC passed $2.01, but it is now $1.27 and AEON lost 30% of its value. Organic growth my ass. P.S. Don't tell me it is a "price correction", please... |
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If you believe that growth of any coin beside bitcoin can be called organic then you are a dreamer.
Bitcoin still does not have the "organic growth" we speak of. That is why it is currently impossible to do TA on BTC. It's just that other currencies could be manipulated more easily. |
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Bitcoin (as it is now) is superior to fiat money, because it cannot be "printed" as they are. No need to make deep analyses, because there are lots of materials, which explains why fiat money are flawed. I guess you know what the banks are doing with your money while they are on "deposit"? They are "using it" (on paper) to fund loans and such. Your $1 becomes $10 to them and they are happy with that. It is one of the reasons to look at you as "a freak" if you decide to pay in cash. Use simplicity, it is the main "weapon" to make people like the average Joe understand what is Bitcoin. And you are using the Greater fool theory in number of your comments. Do you know that it applies to banks as well? The housing bubble is just one of the examples. |
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To the OP: *if* the main usage/goal/... of a crypto currency is to be a better's token between gamblers (eh, sorry, "investors" and "speculators") trying to smart out each other and strip off (fiat) money from "the other gambler" in this big zero-sum game, then honestly, "anonymity", "smart contracts", and even the existence of a block chain and code doesn't matter. All what crypto has become is nothing else but casino tokens. Unfortunately, my impression is that this *is* what makes 95% of the price of crypto, bitcoin included.
So I wouldn't know what it means "to be adopted by the masses". Does it mean that Joe is now also invited to play in that token casino ? Is that what we call "adoption", and is the OP warning and suggesting that we should "protect" ordinary Joe from playing the household money in the crypto token casino, because "whales" are smarter casino players ? Buying tokens to hope to see them rise, and dumping them on a greater fool ? Is that "crypto adoption" ?
Does "adoption" mean that there is this big reservoir of ordinary Joes that are still unexploited as bigger fools to get ripped off by the "early adopters", the "miners", the "devs" and (mainly) the exchanges, which are the true outlets of value in this zero-sum machine ?
Ordinary Joe is not buying Euros and then dumping them for dollars or yen. Some do, but that's a very small minority of people, and it is not the people that buy and sell fiat to hope to see it rise or fall that makes the "adoption of fiat". Adoption of fiat doesn't come from the fact that people buy and sell fiat on FX exchanges. It means that they use it, to earn it and spend it. Not that they are gambling on it.
I would suggest to ordinary Joe (and in fact to just anybody) to stay out of this token casino. It is ripping one another off, without ANY value creation (except for making the casino holders - the centralized exchanges - rich).
However, if by "adoption" one means USING crypto to do what one is doing now with more classical means: buying stuff, earning wages, doing business, transferring wealth, and yes, why not one day, signing agreements ("smart contracts"), NOT for the sake of crypto itself and speculation on its price, but to really use it, then yes, THAT is true adoption, and then, anonymity is an absolute MUST, because the open ledger of bitcoin is a *nightmare* for everybody looking for a minimum of privacy, or more, as a defensive weapon against the criminal syndicate that is the state.
By the time that people would use *bitcoin* to buy a coffee at Star Bucks (they never will en masse because bitcoin cannot handle that on chain), one should hope that there is something like monero or even dash or another anonymous coin where you can hide all the details of your earnings and spendings. But we are VERY REMOTE from that day.
In the mean time, the very, very tiny real adoption that crypto has, is probably there were there's a genuine need to hide from the prying eyes of the criminal syndicate which is the state, and where one wants to live freely and exchange freely: dark markets. Even if this only concerns a very small part of the market, there is at least a real use case for crypto. It is the only genuine adoption of crypto I know of, apart from a few online services (which are MY only use of crypto).
The reality of a block chain, and the reality of the cryptographic aspects of hiding history, only matter if one uses crypto. When it are betting tokens, the technicality of the coin has no importance: they are mainly abstract IOU on exchanges' websites. And if one uses crypto, the actual price of a coin doesn't really matter too much (it shouldn't change too much between earning and spending of course).
I would have preferred by far a small but real "adoption" USING crypto, even by a very small minority of people, with a modest market cap sustaining that real usage, rather than this big token casino that attracts institutional players, lawmakers and all that and kills the freedom of crypto even before it even took off.
If the "anon coin" rise is due to token casino stuff, it will attract lawmaker's troubles before it even got used for real, simply because their equivalent abstract betting IOU on centralized exchanges are hyped by gamblers.
By adoption I always mean "average" Joe using it. Such pumps and dumps are not helping, because of the volatility. And why do you think that anonymity is a must? If the anon market becomes big enough, all the authorities need is to wave some badges and documents and screw it. They are not even obliged to say anything, except that is a matter of national security. How the americans ripped off Kim Dotcom for example? The guy even hasn't been in the USA. We can reach certain privacy even with Bitcoin. There are a lot of people who has amounts of money for which even their closest friends are not aware of. How often do you tell to people how much you worth? You can even fool the banks if you use different accounts, so there is your privacy. History shows that a lot of smart people who knows how to protect themselves were caught. Why do you think yours/mine case would be different? Maybe in a later future part of the market could be anonymous, but currently its too tiny to begin such "wars". You don't go to a war with handful of people. And the situation can be compared with war, because once the authorities feels threatened, they are starting to use "techniques" which even Snowden could be scared to explain. Bottom line. Currently we can somehow compare (though its not very accurate) cryptocurrencies with FX, but the average Joe does not trade. We should forgot for a moment about the gimmicks and focus on what really matters - to prove that Bitcoin (and others) are money, and that they can be used. Op is flawed saying that monero's price growth is purely speculation.
At least some of the price rise is due to actual vendors accepting it for payment.
No, I'm not flawed, but looks like you are. I have asked a simple question: What is the XMR volume on the DarkNet markets?
Because 99.7% of the current (shown) volume (~$65Mn)of XMR is on Poloniex and Bittrex. Se we have few scenarios: 1. People are buying Monero, because they have seen its usage on the DN markets (i.e. they actually saw it was heavily used). 2. People are "buying the news" of DN acceptance. 3. Number 2 + speculation. Which one is it? |
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Monero growth is more organic than speculative IMO, because it's being adopted by DNMs, recognizing that anonimity is one of the most important features of real money, if not the most important. These days Bitcoin hodlers and butthurts are now crying, they are learning their lesson hard: emotional attachment to any coin is bad. Me I started to leave Bitcoin the moment I saw this scaling debate is not going to end soon and well. Bitcoin is literally dying because powerful forces want it to be like that, but obviously they cannot stop the whole idea of real money, and Monero is more real than Bitcoin, that's a fact.
Don't get too excited, because Monero is too young to be compared with Bitcoin. But let me ask you some questions: What is the XMR volume on the DarkNet markets? Currently 99.7% of Monero volume is on Poloniex and Bittrex. What happens if the authorities tell them to halt all XMR tradings and delist the coin? |
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Not sure that you took my post the right way - My post was meant to be more informative. But if I was just getting into the game, I'd go to Bitcoin and only put 5%-%10 into alts.
That's the whole point. SDC's price (as we speak) increased with additional ~60%, while AEON lost ~12% of its value. Monero is continuing to break records and no one knows (if we not talk with conspiracy theories) when it would stop. |
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Why I am not surprised? This is what he basically said:  |
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This is a VERY YOUNG space and we know not where it is going.
No one with their right mind could argue with that. Fiat money needed like a thousand years to to prove their flaws. That is why I am creating such threads from time to time. People should think before they act. Its not like I'm cheerleading some coin or ask for their money. |
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People in general are sheeps and we must always comply with this. Cryptocurrencies are seeking for a better adoption, and in reality, this will not happen without some censorship. Here we can all have our own opinions, but that's what just they are - separate opinions. We do not represent entire countries or certain governments. See what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhSk71gUCQ Being realistic does not mean that you support censorship, manipulation or whatever... I once told you: P.S. Believe me, I'm not arguing or attacking you. I can join you and we can both scream "POWER TO THE PEOPLE" on the streets, but the effect would be 0.
How many people you think we can gather? 100k? A million? 100 million? What happens with the rest 7+ billion? When we are talking about trillion/s of $ potential market you can forget about your privacy. It's that simple. |
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So you never said anything pertaining to people needing oversight to protect them from their bad behavior? I have the day off tomorrow, so if I have to look it up, I'll look it up....
No need to dig around. I did said something like "people (at some point) needs to/must be controlled" and I stand fully behind my statement. That doesn't mean I am against privacy, it means that I am trying to be realistic here. EDIT: P.S. My statement doesn't mean I am against "anonymous coins". I just want to warn people not to fall in the current hype. This was the statement I was talking about--you dodge around your statements, so the reader can attempt to figure out exactly where you stand for themselves. I dodge around nothing! People are free to see the discussion beyond that single comment. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1521860.msg15320286#msg15320286Tell me something else, but I demand for a simple answer. Do you think that humanity (at this point) is being controlled? I think people have always been manipulated and that they always will, so we need to develop tools to help them not be manacled too. Then you are dodging around reality and Monero, and this (realistic) comment makes you a communist. I rest my case. |
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So you never said anything pertaining to people needing oversight to protect them from their bad behavior? I have the day off tomorrow, so if I have to look it up, I'll look it up....
No need to dig around. I did said something like "people (at some point) needs to/must be controlled" and I stand fully behind my statement. That doesn't mean I am against privacy, it means that I am trying to be realistic here. EDIT: P.S. My statement doesn't mean I am against "anonymous coins". I just want to warn people not to fall in the current hype. This was the statement I was talking about--you dodge around your statements, so the reader can attempt to figure out exactly where you stand for themselves. I dodge around nothing! People are free to see the discussion beyond that single comment. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1521860.msg15320286#msg15320286Tell me something else, but I demand for a simple answer. Do you think that humanity (at this point) is being controlled? EDIT: @spartak. I am interested in your speculation of when and at what price XMR will start to drop. I am holding some XMR now that I bought at 800k satoshis and this fast movement of price is making me a little scared to be honest. I happy that it has gone up real quick making my investment profitable but I do not know if I should sell now or sell later.
I have no speculation since I don't consider this as an organic growth, which means that Monero may drop to $1 or it can rise to $50. |
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So you never said anything pertaining to people needing oversight to protect them from their bad behavior? I have the day off tomorrow, so if I have to look it up, I'll look it up....
No need to dig around. I did said something like "people (at some point) needs to/must be controlled" and I stand fully behind my statement. That doesn't mean I am against privacy, it means that I am trying to be realistic here. EDIT: P.S. My statement doesn't mean I am against "anonymous coins". I just want to warn people not to fall in the current hype. |
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The main problem is people acting on ignorance--and that includes not buying too.
Agreed. Can't argue with that. But you should also agree that we are currently on the "anonymous trains" wave and some people definitely will get burned. If the OP has something against privacy as a whole, he should admit it, so others can perform due diligence on his opinion. I do remember that you had some interesting opinions on privacy and a desire to remove it from the cc world IIRC.
I've never said that I am against the privacy, but I do think it will not survive "the race". Monero currently has some success, but I'm still not sure if it is because the darknet markets, or it is just a speculation. Maybe it will find its usage (i.e. better adoption, which can justify the current price) in future, but imho it would not be that big as many people are expecting. People should perform due diligence on these coins, not on me, because I am 101% sure that some of them will FAIL. |
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Monero broke number of records (price, trade volume), but it looks like many people believe that SDC and AEON will follow its trend. One can argue if the XMR growth can be called "organic", but my personal opinion is that this is a pure speculation. Both ShadowCash and Aeon have never reached such prices and volume (you can check their history) and I think that investing in them at this point could be called dangerous.
As long as people continue being stupid and throwing their money at random stuff in the hopes they will magically get rich, manipulation, scams, and failed projects will continue to grow in number. That's the point of the thread. We can't prevent them, but we can reduce them. Yes, you can say that there are a lot of "stupid" (I'd like to call them naive) people who would most likely "buy the news", but I don't think that's the main problem. Imho the main problem is people being greedy. |
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Thanks for YOUR concern, For OUR money..that's sweet  And about what should I thank YOU for? For creating 5 threads about SDC in under an hour? Looks like it is making YOU smarter than me. |
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Monero broke number of records (price, trade volume), but it looks like many people believe that SDC and AEON will follow its trend. One can argue if the XMR growth can be called "organic", but my personal opinion is that this is a pure speculation. Both ShadowCash and Aeon have never reached such prices and volume (you can check their history) and I think that investing in them at this point could be called dangerous.  Dash on the other hand is in decline (imho, it could not be called "price correction", because these dumps followed the Monero news).  I'm not sure who is going to "win" the "war" between anonymous digital currencies, but you should think twice before deciding to invest in some of them. P.S. Personally I don't really care about any of these coins (i.e. if they succeed or FAIL). Cheers, Spartak |
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Firstly, why people keep posting scam accusations in the altcoin discussion section? Is like the 3rd thread I see here. Secondly, there is no 36 BTC buy wall, there are 36 BTC placed in buy orders, which is not the same. And thirdly, I'm not saying that Draco is a scam, but this graph looks quite suspicious:  |
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As far as I know the interest rates in the UK are like 3-4%/year, but you insist to receive a BTC loan with 25% interest for 2 months?
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