There is no question, at least in my mind, that cryptocurrency presents the ultimate threat to bankers. The idea of a currency that can be transmitted instantly anywhere in the world for free and cannot be manipulated terrifies them, because it is obvious far superior to their own offerings, which divert money from legitimate producers and workers and funnels it into their own pockets.
Their only problem: how to make it illegal? Not a trivial problem.
Let's say some guy in Qatar transmits 100 bitcoins to some other guy in Algeria. How do you make that illegal? It's not even in your country. You going to tell the government of Qatar "Block those bitcoin packets, they are illegal." I mean, heck, you can't even block child porn packets in your own country and now you are going to tell Qatar to start blocking bitcoin packets. Seems difficult.
Seems more plausible to demonize the local person even if they act abroad, kind of like porn tourism. If you transmit bitcoins or run a client, its a crime, but we will only go after US citizens. Seems to be the general strategy Russia is taking. The main problem would seem to be justifying it. Of course, in Russia you don't need to justify anything since it's a dictatorship, but in the United States there are courts and lawmakers and stuff like that which get in the way. You can't just have some pimp in the Treasury department make up a law that instantly turns a million citizens into criminals.
Then, of course, there is the intelligence factor. To get a law passed you need to convince Joe Ohio, the average person, that cryptocurrency is evil, kind of like gambling or drinking to excess. Now, this is not so easy as it might seem. In places like Russia and Bangladesh it's easy, because Russians and Bengalis are morons, but in the United States, it's a tougher sell. Gambling is obviously evil, but internet currency, how is that evil? To Joe Ohio seems sort of like a nerd credit card and credit cards aren't evil, are they? What's the problem?
The problem is money laundering, Joe. Drug dealers are using bitcoins to launder their ill-gotten profits so you need to make bitcoins illegal, got that? Hmm, ok, got to stop the drug dealers. Anyone using bitcoin is a criminal because they are helping drug dealers. Got it, I'll call my congressman.
Where does this nonsense even come from? Why would any bank or banker anywhere care even the slightest if you send some guy in qatar 100 bitcoins? |
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This debt isn't worth anywhere near 50% face value. More like 5%. This isn't a company that missed a payment or two. This was obviously planned in advance. There is simply no way there is any money left in any company account, which means virtually no chance anyone will ever collect anything.
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Have you felt like being betrayed by the ASIC manufacturers lately? You are not alone. We all feel the same way. We, as home miners, popularized bitcoins through our supports and utilization. It was written in stones that ASIC manufacturers produce the machine and we as home miners use them to mine. It used to be a sin for the manufacturer to mine and compete with us.
Now the unwritten laws are broken. ASIC manufacturers are plainly setting up data centers to mine. They are directly competing with us, the backbone of ASIC supporters. They are betraying us. I hope this will lead to the collapse of btc and the eventual death of the ASIC manufacturers.
I hope we as home miners will just dump bitcoins and let it collapse.
They were always competing with you. If you have a device that will generate say 10BTC over the course of it's life (say 3 months) there is little reason to sell the device for less then 10BTC. This should be fairly obvious to everyone. What I think people like you have trouble understanding is that the manufacturers didn't get into this business to design, build, and SELL asics. They got in this business to mine. Taking on customers is a means to an end, in that it provides up front capital (pre orders) and allows them to pass all risk onto someone else while still retaining all the profit (since they never deliver until the devices are "used up" so to speak). Once you start to see their primary business as being mining, and not the selling of asics, everything makes a lot more sense. The thing is, it is easy to get mad at them, but read my first line again. If you have a device that will generate 10BTC would YOU sell it for less than 10BTC? Just head over to the for sale section; it isn't just the manufacturers that do this. |
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Hi,
Was wondering how mining still can be profitable even with free power??
For example
the SP20 (1.7Th/s) goes for 1200$ and ships mid this month and will not earn the money back spent on the miner.
the antminer s4 (2 Th/s) goes for 1250$ and will not earn the money back spent on the miner.
how would this make a profit at all for larger mining companies and individuals?
Do they do special deals with the producers of the miners?
How do they still make money with overpriced hardware?
thanks
Obviously they don't pay 1200 dollars for the unit. They, being the manufacturer, pay some small fraction of 1200 dollars for the unit. They typically accept payment in advance for units (so there is little up front cost or risk to them), take the units and mine with them for a while, then deliver them to you when they are no longer profitable. It's almost impossible for them to NOT make money. |
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 Funny thing is that people using paypal. cc or wire transfers are in a much better situation than people using BTC to pay for the promise of scrypt miners  Ironic, no? I think obvious is the better word. |
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You're trying to sell used equipment for three times the going rate of new equipment. While I'm sure we all feel you, no one here is going to pay triple the market rate just because you made a poor business decision and lost money. If you are interested in selling them for what they are actually worth rather than what you want them to be worth, I'll offer .75BTC, includes shipping and escrow.
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Trolling or not the OP does raise some valid points about retail consumer adoption.
Currently they is no tangible benefit for retail consumers to adopt bitcoin. Not cost benefit(bitcoin isn't really cheaper), time saving( transaction confirmation ) time nor is it hassle free( still not quite user friendly).
This ^. For ordinary, every day transactions, there is obviously a benefit to the merchant, and no real downside (since they typically don't actually get exposed to bitcoin even if they accept it). For a consumer though, there is no benefit, and a number of downsides, so why do it? No, Not this ^. It may not be user friendly yet, but it is the fastest, cheapest, and safest way to buy online. You may think that your credit card is faster and cheaper, but it is not. It takes 2-5 days to process that transaction and determine if the sale was legit. The seller does not receive money until this happens. Once it does the seller pays fees of about 3%, which is passed on to you. And that may be the tip of the fee iceburg. You may pay all manor of fees, hidden or not. Thinking a card is free is like believing your getting a "free phone" with your cellular service. You will actually be buying that phone at full price over and over again. lastly, it has become unsafe to use credit cards. I am replacing my debit card for the second time this year due to data breaches. I have no idea who now has my banking information. With bitcoin I can post my overstock.com password and account name without worry. Since there is no card info and no route back to my bitcoins, the best an attacker could do is see my earlier purchases. For me these reasons are compelling enough that I no longer use anything except bitcoin online. The price exploded down actually. And some weeks later went up to $1000.
It may have taken a few weeks. But I helped someone to buy $100K worth just after the closing of SR. They did not want to own any while the darknet stuff was in the news. I know a lot of people were glad to see it go. This isn't true at all. As a consumer, you purchase a product online from I dunno, Amazon.com. It takes 2-5 business days to process. So what do you care? They ship it right away. Benefits the merchant to get it done right away, but makes no difference to the consumer. The merchant pays a 3 percent fee. Notice that the price you paid as a consumer was exactly the same regardless of your method of payment? They eat that cost (or more appropriately, they surcharge on everything regardless of how they pay since card agreements prohibit them from charging card users more). So yea this benefits the merchant too. But not the consumer who pays the same amount regardless. You mentioned hacking. Lost bitcoins to hacking? Too bad, they're gone forever. Lost credit card money to hacking? No problem, that's the bank's problem. You say it is unsafe to use credit cards. And I guess it is, in the sense that the merchant could lose your personal information. They will have the same personal information if you are paying by bitcoin though (they still have to know who you are and where you live to send it to you!). And of course, the worst feature as far as the consumer is concerned. What if you don't get it or there is a problem? If the merchant isn't agreeable, you're screwed. With a credit card, you're not. So as I said yes there are a lot of benefits to the merchant (which is exactly who Satoshi had in mind when he designed it, if you read his white paper). For the consumer? Not so much. |
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I don't believe that power corrupts, I believe that the corrupt get into power - and power reveals their internal corruption. What do you think of this quote? Idealists and entrepreneurs gave us much of the internet and social media; now many of them are working on crypto-currencies http://www.sibos.com/media/news/beyond-bitcoin1. Poverty predates money. As far as I can think of, every single society that has ever existed, since there have been what we call societies, have had a small wealthy elite control a much larger, poor\middle class\whatever you want to call it. It isn't a bitcoin thing, or a fiat thing, or a currency thing in general. 2. In order for there to be a wealthy elite, there must be a working poor. For one thing, if a small, wealthy elite is going to be able to syphon off wealth without producing, that wealth has to come from somewhere else. But more importantly, if we all have the same amount of wealth, I can't very well pay you to do my work for me now can I? 3. Considering that this inevitably happens all over, in every society that has ever existed, I think it is fairly obvious a basic characteristic of humanity itself, and not some condition that only effects a small minority of people. |
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Trolling or not the OP does raise some valid points about retail consumer adoption.
Currently they is no tangible benefit for retail consumers to adopt bitcoin. Not cost benefit(bitcoin isn't really cheaper), time saving( transaction confirmation ) time nor is it hassle free( still not quite user friendly).
This ^. For ordinary, every day transactions, there is obviously a benefit to the merchant, and no real downside (since they typically don't actually get exposed to bitcoin even if they accept it). For a consumer though, there is no benefit, and a number of downsides, so why do it? |
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And the chances of your alt account or best buddy winning this is!?
I guess you could look at it this way. Im just trying to reach roi, as previously stated. Im having electricity problems and my first 3 psus burned out and the rma was a big pain. I got corsairs but i just cant run all three--not enough 15amp circuits/outlets in my maleshift mining room. The price for entries are low... .05 and the oppurtunity is high. Play or dont play, i have one guy in the drawing. If your really strapped on coins and need to make some more while its possible, consider. This is a fun way i have created for the bitcoin community to put some excitement and chance into the deals--and people might start to raffle things off as well. Entered or not, i wish everyone good luck with their personal future of bitcoin. Any chance you can reply to the actual question? Let a third party do the drawing. Well he did answer the question, if you read between the lines. He said, "I'm just trying to ROI...". Obviously, when one pays 3,000 dollars for 1000 dollars worth of equipment, the only way to ROI is to scam\rip people off. So that pretty much answers the question on whether or not this is legit. |
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Pretty sure by now even the most gullible realize AT is never going to deliver anything. Your order isn't worth the 3000 you still owe on it, I doubt anyone would take it for free (and have to pay 3k to AT) let alone actually buy it from you.
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But I am guessing this forum is not a friendly place for selling anything.
I'll take it elsewhere.
It isn't a friendly selling place because you have been a dick to everyone that asked any questions. I'll buy that you don't have the serial number in hand (though really, you could look up the exact model number but not the serial number right next to it???) but you don't even know when you got it? You don't know when you got it, you don't have any pictures, you're a dick to anyone who asks questions. And you expect me to put the money in escrow and THEN you will provide details on the product and pictures? I don't think so. Incidentally, exact same product for 1650 buy it now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-MACBOOK-PRO-15-RET-CORE-I7-2-6GHZ-16GB-RAM-500GB-HDD-DVDRW-15-0-/121437216835?pt=Apple_Laptops&hash=item1c4638e043Quick search of ebay shows numerous listings of your machine for around 1600ish with warranty. You're right, I think I'll pass. |
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Can you clarify exactly how old it is? Originally you said it was almost new, but it is obviously not almost new if it is out of warranty and discontinued.
Also, Apple itself is selling refurbished models same as this one for 1600 so obviously it isn't going to fetch over 2k. What is your real price?
It is not out of warranty. That is impossible for a mac less than a year old to be out of warranty. Which was part of a huge debate with another guy on this thread. Apple is not selling this one for 1600. Not even as refurbished. it is 2,289.00 refurbished. Please verify your information, or provide a link and I will respectfully find the difference between my model and that 1600 model. I have changed my price to 2150 due to the apple referb of 2,289.00. I don't understand why you can't just say exactly how old it is, instead of making me guess when you bought it, and guess if it is covered under warranty still (and eligible for apple care). Why not just give an actual date? TBH it makes me think you have something to hide when you won't give a serial number or even date purchased. |
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Can you clarify exactly how old it is? Originally you said it was almost new, but it is obviously not almost new if it is out of warranty and discontinued.
Also, Apple itself is selling refurbished models same as this one for 1600 so obviously it isn't going to fetch over 2k. What is your real price?
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Any $2300 offers for this $2700+9.5% taxed Macbook Pro?
Can you provide the serial number so I can confirm your claim that it is nearly brand new? It's true the box isn't worth 1300 dollars but guarantee that it is in mint condition, fully functional, not stolen, and covered under warranty is worth quite a bit. |
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...this is about selling hardware...
No it isn't. You don't actually have any hardware for sale. |
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But your product doesn't actually exist yet, so we don't really know what it's power consumption is do we? After all, those zeus machines that consume 1000 watts were supposed to use one quarter of that too, according to what zeus promised right up until the last minute.
Look, at the end of the day, you are selling hash for 4 and a half times the going rate. Lower power consumption, even if it happens (and there is no guaranteeing it will) is never going to make up for that no matter what one pays for electricity, especially when you consider that your product won't start actually mining for at least another month, minimum. Coupled with the fact that your product doesn't even exist yet, and, as anyone who has followed AT knows probably never will exist (they are way overdue and don't even have their chips or a final design done yet).
If the product does actually ship by the end of the month, and does actually consume 400 watts, they are worth between one half and one bitcoin. Given that neither of those things are even close to certain I think my conditional offer of .4btc is quite generous. If you don't, well good luck with the sale.
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I am selling my alpha-technologies Viper 50 MH/s preorder for 4.5 BTC. I will ship the miner to you as soon as I receive it.
Pre-orders are now closed so this is one way for you to get in batch one.
PM for more information.
Zoomhash is selling 46Mh for under 500 bucks shipping now. This preorder is probably never going to ship (how overdue is AT now?). Whats your *real* price, keeping in mind that no one cares what you paid, we only care what it is actually worth? Make an offer. Their miner still should be the most efficient scrypt ASIC out there at about 7w/MH (360w/50 MH) compared to 1000w/44 MH= over 20w/MH, so this miner should be profitable much longer than the competition Electricity consumption is a non starter; it's like a dollar a day difference so maybe 150 dollars total over the course of the product's useful life. If you're willing to use escrow, I'll offer 0.4 BTC if it ships by COB September 30. |
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No one need this ?
Obviously not. |
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I am selling my alpha-technologies Viper 50 MH/s preorder for 4.5 BTC. I will ship the miner to you as soon as I receive it.
Pre-orders are now closed so this is one way for you to get in batch one.
PM for more information.
Zoomhash is selling 46Mh for under 500 bucks shipping now. This preorder is probably never going to ship (how overdue is AT now?). Whats your *real* price, keeping in mind that no one cares what you paid, we only care what it is actually worth? |
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