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I think zoomhash as them even cheaper.
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Well, for right now I just wana dip my toe in the water and not get anything super expensive and the only thing I can afford for a toe dip would be a zeus miner from MS. Being smaller scale, compared the the $83 per MH larger unit I looked at, they have the zeus miner listed for $104 @ 1.2Mh.
So just for something to play with to experiment with scrypt, would you say to just go for it ?
Edit: They do have a $10 off "likeus" coupon, but even after S&H it would still be probably $115 - $120.
I think that would be a good idea. |
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When looking at scrypt miners for LTC under the "as of right now market" what would would be a good price per MH to have a decent ROI shot.
Ex. If looking at BTC miners, paying say $4k for 1Th is being off your f'n rocker where as say two months ago, if not more it might have been ok or a lil easier to understand.
The short answer is none of them (unless of course you have access to hardware at substantially reduced price, like you are a manufacturer getting them at cost or something). 83 dollars per Mh/s is a good deal in the sense that it will lose you less money than most things on the market, but it will still lose you money. Long answer: Looking at SCRYPT historically, we see that this time in march (I'm picking march because that is when SCRYPT ASICS first became readily available for the general public), returns were around .01 per Mh/s. By this time in April, they were down to around .005 to .006. This time in May they were down to around .003. This time in June, around .0015 ish. July now, we're around 0.00085 If you graph this, it is a remarkably steady decline of right around 2% per day. Now, it is obviously a pretty big assumption to assume that things will continue on that same rate of decline, but on the other hand, there isn't any real obvious reason to think it will change, either (other than of course wishful thinking). If things continue at that same rate, this is what we're looking at: This time in August, .0005. September, .00025, October, .00012, November, .00008. Draw up a little amortization type schedule and you can see that 1 Mh/s will earn, from now until the end of the year, and ignoring electricity costs, somewhere between 0.036 and 0.041 BTC. Which at current exchange rates is around $22 to $26 USD. Conclusions? Well obviously things could change. None of this is set in stone. LTC could rebound and head to the moon, or some ALT could knock off BTC or something. Realistically though, we have every reason to think things will continue on exactly as they have been. Which means anything over $30 per Mh/s has virtually no chance to ROI or even come close. Under $25 and you stand a decent chance. You really need to get down below $20 per Mh/s to have a really good chance of making more money than you spent, and the only people getting prices like that are companies who make their own machines. |
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Let's say I'm at a point where all my mining hardware is paid off already and any new bitcoins I make is just profit going forward. Lets say some of you long time miners are in this situation. Now you are looking around to buy some new hardware. Nothing big, just something to keep you busy. Lets just say you can get a 1TH/S rig for a decent price and have it by next week. Of course the machine will never ROI or break even as they say but you are adding it to your current hashing power and if you take all that hashing power eventually that new rig will break even. Do some of you guys do that? Rely of your current hashing power to pay off new hardware that you buy and may have trouble breaking even?
That's kind of a weird way of looking at it. A machine either mines more then it costs, or it mines less than it costs. Where you originally got the money doesn't change that. |
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Really guys? You're getting involved in these preorder scams now too? Given current SCRYPT values and their historic rates of decline, you could have one of those miners delivered today and it would be about 50/50 whether or not it ever breaks even; there is simply no way that many months from now when it finally gets delivered it will come even remotely close to mining as much as it cost. There is virtually 0 percent chance that anything GAW is selling, preorder or otherwise, will ever break even. I have a lot of respect for your sites and pools and am very hesitant to use the word scam in the same sentence, but you guys surely have enough experience in SCRYPT mining to know that GAW's preorders, even if delivered on time and to spec, are going to lose their customers a lot of money.
GAW is one of the top mining hardware distributors around, and they're selling the best priced scrypt miners in the industry currently. I've personally bought a considerable amount of mining hashrate from them and been very pleased overall. It is always possible that investment in mining hardware won't earn a return, but calling something a scam because of that possibility is a bit far fetched. As I said, I hesitate to use that word to describe it (and incidentally I have done business with them in the distant past and it was satisfactory). But with that said, It is a mathematical fact that barring some fantastical change of events, nothing they stock now will ever return its cost. The fact that they will lose their customers less money then others will doesn't really change the fact that you are still losing money. But this is more about the preorder (none of which, including their own, have ever gone well). When this device is finally operational, assuming it is on time and to spec (and not say, using 4 times the power consumption advertised, like their last preorder did), what do you think the daily return rate will be on 1Mh/s? Given the historic rates and rates of decline? I mean that as a serious question, if you had to guess, what would you speculate the rate will be when it is released? Because my money is on somewhere between 0.00007 and 0.00009 BTC per Mh/s per day. |
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How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?
They don't. But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy....... Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit. I encourage you to check out the alfa testing that is going on currently. None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist. PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value. I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet? I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash. Funny how these scams always work the same way. Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...
Yea sure. Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology". Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake ( http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes. Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it. So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes. Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this. Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was. For a brief window of about 3 or 4 weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine. I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since. But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for. When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype. But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that. But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real. Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore. It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person. Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on. Really? If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut. You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! Anyways, you want to make money in this game? Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC. It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks. It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency. BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. I'm not talking about pts. im talking about bitshares x, the current iteration of which lays the foundation for all other bitshares dacs. please see the links i provided in my previous post. the bitshares blockchains have the features I just outlined above which makes them far better than any system to date including bitcoin. there is no mining. block times are 15 seconds. and confirmation is one block. initial transaction per second will be 10. the alpha testing has demonstrated that the blockchain can handle 100tps. I don't have any pts at the moment, but I'm currently buying them. there will be 4 major snapshots that take place in the following weeks. Pts will go up just like it did for the original bitshare x snapshot. if you are a speculator you know this to be true. and if you are a long time investor who has seen the development team demonstrate a system that is far better than any to date you will also understand this to be true. You mean the bitshares X that was supposed to be released back in February? The one where, everyone like you bought up PTS from people like me to get it before the snap shot but then never got anything for it? That bitshares X? Getting burned once wasn't enough, you need to come back for more? Anyways, as that guy said, there is little reason to argue about this. PTS is currently trading at 0.0069BTC on Cryptsy, we can all just come back in a month or two and see what new low it has achieved. |
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Imo yes pm for more info.
That means no. |
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Hi looking for loan 0.9 till August pref in uk
1HCQWhe3qNfzyaZGrWikQzGSuEBsr788SJ
See BTC flow here
Thanks
Will
Did.....did you really think it would be that easy? Just post your address and people will send you money? |
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Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence.
But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart. I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world. Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal. Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass? Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks. They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server). They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs. Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages. I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of? But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen. Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags. In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time. But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this? I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars? The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause? I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them. It's like, wtf really? Contracts are not protection from consumer fraud. No matter what type of legalese and spin is spun fraud is fraud and the courts would throw said contract in the trash. The butthurt on this will be nasty! But there was no fraud committed. That's the part you can't seem to get through your head. You keep ignoring all the points I've mentioned, and that's fine, you don't owe me any answers. But when you sue this company for fraud their lawyers are going to ask you the same questions in court and then you will have to answer. It is going to be very difficult to prove they delivered late when the contract you signed specifically says there is no guaranteed delivery date. And either way at best you are looking at getting a portion of your money back (most of it is spent already). There is 0 chance you will get compensatory damages. I will agree with you though, the "butthurt on this will be nasty", in fact most of their customers are already feeling it. I was hoping this would be an [expensive] lesson for those involved, but as I mentioned, some of the exact same people who got raped here are already lining up to get raped again by GAW's preorder. Some people just like getting raped, I guess. |
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Really guys? You're getting involved in these preorder scams now too? Given current SCRYPT values and their historic rates of decline, you could have one of those miners delivered today and it would be about 50/50 whether or not it ever breaks even; there is simply no way that many months from now when it finally gets delivered it will come even remotely close to mining as much as it cost. There is virtually 0 percent chance that anything GAW is selling, preorder or otherwise, will ever break even. I have a lot of respect for your sites and pools and am very hesitant to use the word scam in the same sentence, but you guys surely have enough experience in SCRYPT mining to know that GAW's preorders, even if delivered on time and to spec, are going to lose their customers a lot of money.
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Price discounted again, same for shipping...
I need to get rid of these, clearly the bulk buy was a mistake.
What price would you advise I sell each unit for?
Tbh, I would suggest taking them to ebay. That's probably the only place you are going to get a worthwhile price. You might find people on here looking to buy a few here and there but not 300. |
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And would you want to be scammed by fake escrows?
No I'de rather be scammed by hilariously fake photoshops  |
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How are you basing your ROI calculations on? How do these DAC generate the profit for you?
They don't. But the bags are getting sooooooo heavy....... Brian have you done any research into BitShares? I don't think you have. Or you would understand why pts is extremely undervalued and this is a good entry point for investing in next generation blockchain technology. Bitshares-PTS is a simple clone of bitcoin. Its specs are not where it gets its value from. The value of PTS comes from the fact that it gives you a share of future distributed autonomous companies that are being launched by Invictus Innovation and other developers using the bitshares_toolkit. I encourage you to check out the alfa testing that is going on currently. None of those "distributed autonomous companies" exist. PTS gives you stake in non existent companies, hence its non existent value. I wonder, can I buy these companies that don't exist yet, with dollars that don't exist yet? I'm guessing that while they expect you to take their word that you will eventually get something, they don't take IOUs but only hard cash. Funny how these scams always work the same way. Some major enhancements to the blockchain technology have already been implemented that make it much better than any other crypto-currnency/crypto-equity platforms to date...
Yea sure. Something like 400 altcoins exist and they all promise to be "major enhancements to blockchain technology". Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but no one cares because you can't actually buy anything with them. The BitShares platform uses Delegated Proof of Stake ( http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/), which allows for greater, more effiecient security and transaction processing than bitcoin at a fraction of the cost. Blocks are produced every 15 seconds and *full* confirmation is around 12 minutes. Except the devs fucked up the difficulty re targeting so no one is mining it. So transactions now take literally DAYS to confirm, not seconds or minutes. Your first clue that they don't care should have been when they never fixed this. Listen, I do appreciate PTS for what it was. For a brief window of about 3 or 4 weeks, it was *immensely* profitable to mine. I probably made more BTC in that one month mining PTS than I have made mining everything else put together before and since. But come on that's all it ever was, a quick buck for the devs that the rest of us could ride along for. When they took the snapshot and then never released the DAC that should have finally clarified for you that there was no substance behind the hype. But then in that 3 day window when the difficulty was normalized, there people like you were again, still buying. So I get it, I get that you bought into the hype and bought these coins, and I appreciate that. But the time to get out was months ago, back when you still had a chance of convincing people that these DACs were real. Not now, after every deadline has been missed and no one believes it anymore. It amuses me when I see you and the other pumpers trying to build up this coin so you can dump it off on some other unsuspecting new person. Of course you all deny that's what you're doing but come on. Really? If you seriously believed all the hype about this coin that you spew, you wouldn't be altruistically sharing that information with us and thus diluting your own profits, you would just buy the coins quietly and keep your mouth shut. You wouldn't be advertising, you would be hoping no one else notices! Anyways, you want to make money in this game? Ditch the shitcoins and buy BTC. It's a currency, not a fucking social movement or the answer to all of life's questions even the ones you didn't ask yet, so it doesn't have all the cute gimmicks. It doesn't have some fake anonymity, or puny interest rate, or DACs, or shitty video games built into the browser, or whatever gimmicky shit people are putting in alt coins these days to cover up the fact that the currency can't actually be used as a currency. BTC is boring, all you can do with it is buy shit. |
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Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence.
But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart. I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world. Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal. Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass? Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks. They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server). They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs. Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages. I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of? But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen. Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags. In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time. But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this? I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars? The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause? I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them. It's like, wtf really? Well, I don't know about the US law, but in the UK, under the sales & goods act, the product has to be fit for purpose. If it breaks because it's a piece of badly made garbage, then the product does not meet your expectations, and is therefore covered under that condition. If the product specifications do not match what's been advertised, again, same principle applies. You're right in that responsibility ends at that point, and that you can't really claim for damages caused as a result of the product not being fit for purpose, but the seller is entirely responsible for product doing what is expected of it. Right but we aren't talking about replacing a broken product. We are talking about compensation for lost revenue resulting from a broken product. There is a huge difference between me selling you a 10k server, it breaking, and me owing you 10k, and me selling you a 10k server, it breaking, and me owing you 50mil in lost revenue from not having a server. The latter is what that guy is asking for, and there is simply no jurisdiction anywhere that he is going to get it from. Thats just one problem. There are many, many other problems with the contract, all of which I have already listed previously and so I won't get into again. The fact is people like that didn't read wtf they were signing. Which is fine if you're buying a 50 dollar video game on steam or something, but if your spending thousands of dollars.....kind of a bad idea. |
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Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence.
But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart. I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world. Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal. Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass? Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks. They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server). They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs. Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages. I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of? But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen. Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags. In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time. But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this? I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars? The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause? I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them. It's like, wtf really? |
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This needs to be like half what you are charging....
good luck finding that. 5 left now. Good luck finding 480Gh/s for under $730? You're right that will be hard *trips over 50 people trying to dump S1s* |
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This needs to be like half what you are charging....
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Here's the thing. You are selling these for .2 for 10 shipped, totaling 16Gh/s. But one can get an S1 for .2 that does 180Gh/s, and doesn't need powered USB hubs and such to work. These simply aren't even remotely cost effective to purchase as anything other than a novelty.
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Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence.
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"Reselling & third party buying
For now we do not allow orders to be resold and do not acknowledge the reselling of that order if it were to happen. We cannot and do not ‘transfer’ orders from one of our customers to another party. Orders can only be kept with the party that accepted our terms."
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