Coordination of peers/forger into a voting block is not decentralized.
Not all Nxt holders will be involved in the decision-making process, and the smaller shareholders and retail partners will be alienated - even if such a measure reaches 51%.
In the case of retailers, they could potentially face loses for services rendered or products sold.
In view of that, what major investor or retailer would dare make any future commitments to Nxt if they know Nxt has a history of doing rollbacks?
Would a major retailer be willing to offer a Nxt payment option to their customers knowing a rollback is a possibility?
In crypto currencies the majority of miners/forgers decide everthing. It's 51% or so in PoW and in NXT at this time. When TF is implemented in NXT, then it will take 90% power to overcome the chain, which will make it more secure than PoW. Bitcoin did rollbacks in its history too, so nothing dramatic here. Yes, but that doesn't mean it is decentralized. In fact, centralization of mining power is one of the biggest concerns for BTC now. Further, I don't think BTC protocol allows rollbacks. Bitcoin itself has been rolled back... When? |
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Yes, but that doesn't mean it is decentralized. In fact, centralization of mining power is one of the biggest concerns for BTC now. Further, I don't think BTC protocol allows rollbacks.
It's decentralized if no one entity has 51% power (or 90% when TF is implemented in a few months). There is no one entity in NXT that has 51% forging power. If forgers decide to download the modified release and do the rollback, then it's democracy in PoS style. BTC software could also be modified to do a rollback and if enough miners download it and reach 51% of mining power OR if enough miners decide to secretly mine a separate chain and reach 51% of mining power, they orphan all the other miners' blocks. For some strange reason, you seem to equate the majority threshold and democracy as the benchmark for decentralization. It is not. Further, don't keep snipping our conversations. Otherwise, I might forget you earlier claims such as BTC has done rollbacks before. Also, your last two sentences seem to refer to forking. |
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Coordination of peers/forger into a voting block is not decentralized.
Not all Nxt holders will be involved in the decision-making process, and the smaller shareholders and retail partners will be alienated - even if such a measure reaches 51%.
In the case of retailers, they could potentially face loses for services rendered or products sold.
In view of that, what major investor or retailer would dare make any future commitments to Nxt if they know Nxt has a history of doing rollbacks?
Would a major retailer be willing to offer a Nxt payment option to their customers knowing a rollback is a possibility?
In crypto currencies the majority of miners/forgers decide everthing. It's 51% or so in PoW and in NXT at this time. When TF is implemented in NXT, then it will take 90% power to overcome the chain, which will make it more secure than PoW. Bitcoin did rollbacks in its history too, so nothing dramatic here. Yes, but that doesn't mean it is decentralized. In fact, centralization of mining power is one of the biggest concerns for BTC now. Further, I don't think BTC protocol allows rollbacks. |
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So, here is what's going to happen. In NXT, forgers decide what chain to forge on. NXT is all for decentralization. CfB is against a rollback, he said, but he sees not giving a choice to the community as a centralized decision on his part.That's why he's going to put a modified release for download, which rolls back the chain. If enough forgers download that release and forge with it and their chain is longer, then that chain wins and the hack is rolled back. If enough forgers stay on the old chain and keep it the longest, then the hack is not rolled back. That's how decentralization works in the PoS world. The equivalent in PoW would be 51% of the miners mining on the longest chain, it's same in PoS. Let's see how this drama unfolds  Right. This is exactly what decentralisation is. Like I was saying earlier in the thread. Coordination of peers/forger into a voting block is not decentralized. Not all Nxt holders will be involved in the decision-making process, and the smaller shareholders and retail partners will be alienated - even if such a measure reaches 51%. In the case of retailers, they could potentially face loses for services rendered or products sold. In view of that, what major investor or retailer would dare make any future commitments to Nxt if they know Nxt has a history of doing rollbacks? Would a major retailer be willing to offer a Nxt payment option to their customers knowing a rollback is a possibility? |
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A second hijacker just appeared: https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/16127013390623010298I'll pay 0.000004 btc per nxt. That's double what's BTER is paying. You may sell as much as you want. 1 nxt or all 45m it's up to you. I got the btc ready. You'll be left safe btc and I'll hold risk of forking. Please reply me anyway thank you |
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Someone is trying to hijack the deal! You're selling NXT back to BTER at 0.000002 btc per nxt. I'll buy them for 0.000003 btc per nxt. That's 50% more for holding all the risk of being forked myself while you have safe BTC. I got BTC ready to send instantly. Thank you very much! https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/4053546080551753572 |
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The courteous thief/hacker made an account and posted on the Nxt forum. Okay, Guys - Let me apologise - but the deal is off.
I'm not going to stay here for hours waiting for him to send the bitcoins. I been almost hour since the first batch of NXT was sent to him, I'm not going to stay hours waiting for his send batch of his bitcoins.
I got things to do, than sit around and wait.
Lets see if the one exchanges lack of impenitence will ruin whole NXT community.
Good luck, all! Moments later, BTER sent him 20BTC. Why did Bter send 20 BTC after this? I don't think the details about the hacker are correct. Very likely those are stolen too. After BTER made the first installment, the thief sent over 5m NXT. Then BTER asked them to send the second batch of 5m before they continue to make payment and waited. The thief called their bluff and threatened to break nego and leave. BTER rushed off another 20BTC, but as of now, the thief's wallet balance remains at 46m. |
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Wow. Could they really be that dumb? Or are they using forged reg details? |
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The courteous thief/hacker made an account and posted on the Nxt forum. Okay, Guys - Let me apologise - but the deal is off.
I'm not going to stay here for hours waiting for him to send the bitcoins. I been almost hour since the first batch of NXT was sent to him, I'm not going to stay hours waiting for his send batch of his bitcoins.
I got things to do, than sit around and wait.
Lets see if the one exchanges lack of impenitence will ruin whole NXT community.
Good luck, all! Moments later, BTER sent him 20BTC. |
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Good news. Seems like the hacker has agreed to return the stolen Nxt in exchange for 100 BTC. There will probably be no rollback. This way, everyone wins. Bter gets to stay in business, the hacker makes a tidy profit, and the Nxt community gets their stolen coins back. It will be done in parts, so Bter sends 10 BTC first, after which the hacker sends 5 million NXT, then Bter sends another 10 BTC, etc. and so on. Latest message: BTER: considering all our users and the NXT community, we will cover all the users' loss and we will take your 100 BTC offer. 1+9 BTC has already sent to you. Now send NXT back to NXT-R3V3-2S79-F3ZM-BVXKZ ( 11513376607016028001) Link: http://www.mynxt.info/blockexplorer/details.php?action=tx&tx=1998773042441769982Link: https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/1998773042441769982 |
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It's a sad day in the cryptoland to see the fourth biggest coin reduced to a hostage negotiation. |
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You can see the transfer, but you don't know the reason for said transfer. Of course, the most likely reason is theft. However, there could also be other reasons. I feel communities should not blindly take the word of exchanges. Edit: I just learned that the alleged thief posted a ransom note on the blockchain. We can trade these NXT for some bitcoins to make life easier for you, and me.Hypothetically speaking, who would know if an exchange was behind something like this in the first place? |
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Question 1: Has anyone verified, or rather, is anyone capable of verifying that the theft really happened? Or is the NXT community going to take BTER's word for it?
Question 2: After the Vericoin Mintpal-fork incident, will Nxt become the next coin to set aside their principles and perform a rollback in the interest of expediency?
Edit:
Question 3: Will this henceforth set a precedent for every other exchange theft, legitimate or otherwise, in cryptoland?
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Wow, I haven't really kept up with the BTC/LTC market in awhile, but checking the charts today pretty much shocked me. Last I remembered it was surging up towards the 12 dollar market and all signs were pointing to bullish. The 365 day chart does not look good...at all.
Is there some particular news that is triggering this massive downward slope? And are any of you guys getting in now, or do you feel we might see another return close to 4 dollars like we saw late last year? I'm soooo tempted...but man, I've already been burned so many times in this altcoin game.
When the threat of scrypt ASICs reared its head earlier this year, there were some calls for LTC to implement a new algo, with many favoring X11. However, both Charles and Warren were against the idea. Not long after, commercial scrypt ASICs started to be distributed and their impact began to felt almost immediately. A short while ago, as LTC's price continue to slide, Charles proposed a merge mining solution with Dogecoin. But, rumors began to float that Charles was bribed by Chinese ASIC manufacturers to push the idea, so Dogecoin devs apparently turned him down. This triggered the second major price drop. So what is in store for LTC now? I think the price will naturally level off once scrypt ASICs profitability levels are established. It could be weeks, or months, as people learn to optimize and fine tune scrypt ASIC miners. Fwiw, Charles made a very interesting comment on Reddit yesterday. I first heard about Bitcoin when it shot to $30, which was around a $200M marketcap. Then it dropped all the way down to $2 (~$15M marketcap). Litecoin hit $1B and is now ONLY $175M. If you think $175M is dead, then you definitely would have sold when Bitcoin hit $15M. That would have been a disaster!
Would Litecoin price drop more? Maybe
Would it drop a lot more? Possibly
Would it rebound when Bitcoin rebounds? Definitely
Would it rebound a lot more than Bitcoin? Very likely |
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I've been meaning to put Anders on ignore for a while now. This thread finally reminded me to do it. I'm getting a bit bored with his poorly thought out, hey, let just do the following and all the problems of the world will be solved: - Step 1. Collect underpants
- Step 2. ?
- Step 3. Profit
The number of newbies that show up here thinking that their ideas are brand new and nobody has bothered to think of them in the past 6 years just astounds me. I'm not saying that a newbie can't come up with an original idea, just that most of them don't, and none of them seem to even consider the possibility that their idea isn't new and that they should learn a bit about what has already been discussed regarding their idea before they present it as revolutionary. A fellow South Park aficionado, I see. |
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The original Bitcoin protocol is very innovative. However, there are several reasons for why today's cryptocurrencies will fail:
1. Too slow transaction times for general use.
2. Too bloated block chain for mainstream adoption.
3. Having to store coins "under the mattress" is a step backwards.
4. Proof of work will lead to too large transaction fees.
5. Proof of stake leads to the rich getting richer.
6. Lack of government support prevents mainstream use.
7. Trading against ordinary fiat currencies causes volatility.
Don't feel up for a debate right now, but would like to point out that item 6 is an anathema to the basic principles of crypto in general. |
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Those look very nice by themselves, but I think that they might be jarring if actually used because your coin icons look similar to but not exactly the same as the current coin icons. The current icons don't have the BTC. Still, I added the first two to the poll. Aah, I wrongly assumed you used the Bitcoin logo instead of normal gold coins, Theymos. Easily fixed. Just let me know if/when you need it in normal coin design/s. |
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