Each new dollar (from thin air) ASIC shaves a little more value off the ultimate pool of currency ASICs already in circulation. The value grows but the quality profitability of each dollar ASIC does not.
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IMO, If the hardware costs Avalon $800 to build the ASICS. Then they should charge a markup on top of that for their time and R&D. But stating that ROI is the reason of their price shady to me... We do not know if the Fed will step in within the time of buying an ASIC and your earnings to recoup the cost of the ASIC. And if Bitcoins become unusable due to ISPs blocking bitcoin traffic then you have a very expensive paperweight. Keep in the the word ASIC means Application Specific Integrated Circuit. So its only good for one thing and thats mining bitcoins.... IMO thats a BIG risk to take without knowing the legality and the future of Bitcoin.
This applies to all ASICs and all vendors. If the Feds step in/ISPs block Bitcoin traffic, then everyone's dedicated mining hardware becomes an expensive paperweight. It's just one of the risks you need to take into account before purchasing mining hardware - whether it's an 88 BTC Avalon or a $39,000 Mini-rig. And who in the hell are these exchanges which won't let you buy 100 BTC? |
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Everyone is raving about these overpriced avalon units in batch 3...
However I cant find the price anywhere at all... Can anyone shed some light on the price? thanks!
88 btc (3 modules) 113 btc (4 modules) psu +2btc; freight charges +2btc Hope you bought btc when they were cheap Yifu has said that those prices were examples based on current difficulty and that the actual price will be based on difficulty when the units go on sale. I missed it. Care to point it out? That was an example estimate, I should probably clarified earlier, that 88 -115 is based on difficulty estimates, so this number will adjust accordingly, and I would say many things are lost in translation and taken the wrong way.
in other words, DO NOT take information to be final unless it is from the NEWSLETTER. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1656559#msg1656559 |
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Everyone is raving about these overpriced avalon units in batch 3...
However I cant find the price anywhere at all... Can anyone shed some light on the price? thanks!
88 btc (3 modules) 113 btc (4 modules) psu +2btc; freight charges +2btc Hope you bought btc when they were cheap Yifu has said that those prices were examples based on current difficulty and that the actual price will be based on difficulty when the units go on sale. |
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Where is the first place where announcement/link/password will be released that ordering is open?
The newsletter will be the first place where information about Batch 3 ordering will be available, as always. Usually someone starts a thread when they get their newsletter. |
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The simple way around it is silk road or bitmit  Those on really low incomes need the money they make for living expenses, so they need a difficult to trace way to cash out their BTC earnings on a regular basis. |
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The Australian Taxation Office has been requiring eBay to provide information on its users for years now. eBay actually emails you and lets you know what data they've provided to the ATO. Any Australian trying to make "a bit on the side" who doesn't take into account the fact that the ATO and Centrelink have one of the world's most sophisticated data matching programmes is an idiot. Some of these idiots are going to end up getting slapped with a tax bill as well as debt recovery action by Centrelink. Here's what the eBay emails said a few years ago. Hello EBAYID, eBay has received a request from the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for information relating to members of www.ebay.com.au who had sales greater than AU $20,000 in any given year during the period 1 July 2007 to 30 June 2009. Our records reflect that you had sales greater than AU $20,000 in at least one of these financial years. As a result, the ATO has requested the following information: •Contact name and user ID •Email Address and IP Address •Company /Business Number and ABN •Address •Telephone numbers •Date of Birth •Registration Date •Banking Account Details •Monthly sales for the period 1 July 2007 – 30 June 2009 We can confirm that eBay has and will continue to work with the ATO to provide them with the information we are legally required to provide. Disclosure of this information is permitted in accordance with our Privacy Policy. eBay will be the ones to provide this information to the ATO. For further information regarding the ATO, please visit its website at www.ato.gov.au, or consult with your professional legal or tax adviser. Sincerely, The eBay Team For the non-Aussies, the people being caught by this measure could range from unemployed youth whose only other source of income if $250 per fortnight government income support to families earning $90,000 per annum who've been overpaid child care benefit/rebate and family tax benefit because they didn't include the eBay income in their family income estimate. It will be interesting to see who they choose to prosecute. |
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Why Avalons greed is bad..
1) Only those who already own an ASIC can generate enough Bitcoins to buy the next Avalon ASIC run.
2) This will concentrate Bitcoin block solving power into just a small amount of hands.
3) This flies in the face of what Bitcoin was supposed to be, a large distributed network of nodes.
4) If this continues you run the risk of the Bitcoin community abandoning the project for LiteCoin.
People are paying $30,000 for BFL Mini-rigs and ordering 30 Singles, so it's clear that "only those who already own an ASIC..." is a bullshit argument - many people have placed orders of much greater value with BFL. Hashing power is going to concentrate in the hands of those who have funds - whether it's BTC or USD - period. Mining arms races are going to continue and there are always going to be some miners prepared to pay a premium to gain a temporary advantage over others. It's the nature of the beast. |
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It's probably worth pointing out that we're likely to see more people default on BTC loans as the price keeps rising.
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Has anyone from Avalon mentioned what the trade-in value will be on Batch 3 units? I can see that affecting people's decisions.
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The price hike from Avalon makes absolute sense. They really have one goal: To sell their hardware for as much as is possible.
You wouldn't do the same in their position? I mean even at 5-6k you'll still pay for the unit eventually as long as it doesn't break (I haven't really read about warranties on these things) At BTC, you'll pay for it in about a month. That's their point - that it's unreasonable to expect units to be priced at a point where they'll pay for themselves in days. They're leaving themselves plenty of room to adjust the price downwards as difficulty changes and more TH hit the network. There's only going to be a short time when expecting a unit to pay for itself within a couple of months is reasonable. As more ASICs hit the network, the break even point will blow out. When it blows out to a point where sales drop off, vendors will likely drop their prices to keep it at an "acceptable" time-frame. |
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I bumped that ebay price to 17k with no intention to pay for it to see if anyone would top it.
I was surprised to come home and find myself outbid.
I doubt the guy will pay for it, happens all the time when stuff gets expensive.
It's also a first time seller so the auction could have been for shit and giggles anyway. |
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Now I'm tempted to put my Batch #2 on eBay.
You could mine with it for a while and then sell it. Until BFL delivers in any quantity and Batch 3 ships, Avalons are likely to fetch a good price in the secondary market. |
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Avalon ASIC just sold on Ebay for 15.000 USD - so much for auctioning them. I stick to GPU mining, you guys go ahead and destroy the BitCoin mining ecosystem with your greed. Low Watts is good for real ecosystem -Mother Nature- tho.
The winning bid was USD 20, 600. I'd say it's a reflection of the greed of miners more than anything else. Whoever bought it didn't do so to secure the network. Avalon probably didn't even make a profit on the sale of that Batch 1 unit. The original purchaser cleaned up and the person they sold it to is hoping to clean up too. Link? How can the seller be sure he will not be scammed by the paypal ecosystem? Just noticed it's a Batch 2 order which has been sold. Not sure what e-Bay's policy on that will be if there's a problem. http://www.ebay.com/itm/181105056846 |
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Avalon ASIC just sold on Ebay for 15.000 USD - so much for auctioning them. I stick to GPU mining, you guys go ahead and destroy the BitCoin mining ecosystem with your greed. Low Watts is good for real ecosystem -Mother Nature- tho.
The winning bid was USD 20, 600. I'd say it's a reflection of the greed of miners more than anything else. Whoever bought it didn't do so to secure the network. Avalon probably didn't even make a profit on the sale of that Batch 1 unit. The original purchaser cleaned up and the person they sold it to is hoping to clean up too. |
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Perhaps they should be banned from advertising on the forum until they have delivered their units and caught up on the backlog. I think scammer tags are pretty useless, but the forum doesn't need to be seen to be endorsing them by allowing their ads.
Of course theymos would probably say that banning them from advertising is censorship.
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It's a bit of a cute "fuck you" to BFL refugees, too. People who were planning on cancelling their BFL Single order when notice of Batch 3 opening was given might just have to stick with BFL or give up on ASICs for now. My memory might be poor but i recall the head of avalon stating some pretty lofty goals that had little to do with
making a profit and more to do with his fondness of bitcoin. I think that goal is still there. This is pretty clearly intended to discourage those whose primary concern is earning USD. The BTC:USD exchange rate shouldn't matter if you're evaluating your ROI in terms of BTC. Discouraging the notion that people have a "right" to earn back their purchase price in a matter of days is also not a bad idea. That's only ever been a possibility for very early adopters and BFL has certainly had no qualms about selling so many units that it will take months (and possibly longer) for people ordering now to receive their units and even more months to break even. Someone ordering now from any ASIC vendor is hardly a "very early adopter". |
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When is some of it going to get spent on upgrading the forum? Seriously - the forum has collected over USD 300,000 so far.
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No offense but I can't help feeling you have turned around completely and are now driven solely by monetary gain.
>implying miners aren't themselves driven solely by monetary gain They want ASICs right now "to secure the network", doncha know. |
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I sorta gave up following bfl... But the post above did not help in the least. am i wrong to guess they still have not ran a test unit that can actually hash yet?
No, you're not wrong. They're hoping to have things sorted out next week. But I digress... as I said in the shoutbox, we think we've found the problem with the test rig and the ASIC team has managed to get the chips spinning with some hand modifications to the test rig and some of the engines were even running at 500 MHz. They are going to finish diagnosing and then get new hardware for the test rig, so we should have something demonstrable by early to mid next week. Should be pretty smooth sailing after that. The chances of them shipping before April seem extremely remote given that update. |
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