You still should be getting credited for your dividends by Goat. What he'll have to do, is as dividends are ready to go out, he will do the math himself to figure out how much per share, then manually send them out to the people who have identified themselves via their claim code. Any bonds that haven't been linked to the owner yet, would have those dividends held in escrow until those share are identified, at which point, they will receive the generated dividends that the asset-holder held reserved for them.I can't say zero reasons. When a client/customer initiates actions for the sole purpose of causing harm to your business, you have every right to refuse service from that point on, or, in the case of a contract between the two, if it isn't a condition in the separation clause, the business can simply not renew the contract when it expires. No notice is required.
You can't get rid of them on GLBSE, but there is nothing stopping you from arranging a private sale, and doing it through the asset issuer so the issuer can update his records.

I'll grant you, that you've lost the convenience of an automated exchange to do all of this accounting for the asset issuer, but that is something the issuer will have to work out for himself, if he doesn't want to do the accounting.See above answerCertainly it could have been handled better, there is little dispute about that, but that isn't the same as saying that it is unworkable and|or can't be done. GLBSE wasn't the supplier, just the facilitator. Maybe a broker would be willing to chase around the issues he is managing for you as the customer, but GLBSE wasn't necessarily a broker, just an exchange, that handled the accounting for the assets. Plenty of room for argument on that point however, I'll agree.
Personally, I think people choosing to sell the claim codes themselves, would be foolish to do so. Their only purpose is for the asset issuer to match holders to the shares they own off of the issuer's list. At that point, if the holder wishes to sell his shares to someone else, person to person, both parties will have to do it through the asset issuer himself, as he is handling the accounting for it now.We can plenty argue over who initiated what, but it has little relevance to the situation we have now. That ship has sailed. The way I see it, you're going to keep having two camps. One camp who believes that the exchange has to put up with all the BS that is being fanned by the owners of the companies listed on their exchange, even if that BS is detrimental to the exchange itself, and you'll have the other camp who believes that no company has a right to be listed on the exchange, and the exchange can't be forced to keep a company listed, or be forced to continue trading, or handling, any transactions involved with the now-delisted company.

I'm in the latter camp.

Basing it solely on the public information I have seen posted, Goat was in the wrong, and created this situation himself. I can't blame Nefario one bit for evicting him off of the exchange at the point that he did. I probably would have done the same thing more or less.

One change I may have done, was to just halt trading of all of the assets, with a notice of why they were halted, to prepare for delisting it, and accept no more trading at all at that point. Then take a little more time compiling the list of share owners together, to send to Goat.

It wouldn't change the outcome of course, but it would have just dragged it out a little longer. Sometimes it is just best to make a clean quick break and be done with it.

I also wouldn't have run anonymously. The top 10 or 15 shareholders would be shown in the company info page, and the company CEO would have access to the complete current list at any time through whatever CEO menu available to them.

Since GLBSE was running anonymously, however, and that information wasn't normally available, then you have the additional responsibility to preserve the trader's identity and honor that anonymity. In order to do that, you would have to have a method where a share|bond holder can be linked up with the list of holders the CEO has. That's where the claim code comes in.

Your shares aren't gone. That was between you and the asset issuer, regardless of if an exchange was man-in-the-middle or not. To claim that they have been voided, or are now gone, is disingenuous.

This is by far a perfect situation, or outcome, but it is by no means, unworkable. It is just going to require a lot more work between the people involved now, which we have previously taken for granted.

-- Smoov

Nah, I don't have a large exposure anywhere. My BTC wealth isn't large enough to even be considered "meager" with the low hashrate I have, but that also means, that I can't just simply write things off as easily as others that do have large exposures.

I had more exposure with the pirate fiasco that I ended up getting hurt on a lot, but you didn't see me going off half-cocked about it. I rolled the dice, I lost, so be it.

I just hate all this fake controversy BS. People spouting out stuff as if they know what the F they're talking about when they don't, and don't even know enough to recognize that they don't know.

This escalation to make a big public spectacle of the whole thing, originated with Goat, from everything I understand, and after seeing his behavior over other issues, like a MtGox one a while back, he just isn't stable.

The only thing to gain by escalating it with this tantrum of his has the only purpose of trying to bring down GLBSE and Nefario. Any honest disagreement they had has been lost a long time ago by now. It just sickens me that supposedly intelligent people keep acting this way without the apparent ability to apply reason and logic.

I mean, seriously... OMFG!!! WHAT DO I DO IF SOMEONE USES A CODE TWICE!!? Figure it out... you don't have mommy around here to save you.

WHAT IF THE LIST ISN'T ACCURATE!!!... well, when you actually have some evidence of it not being accurate, then you have something to discuss, which can be verified by Nefario's last records if there is a dispute, but if yer not even going to bother trying to match the claim ID's to the asset-holders who present them, you don't have a leg to stand on. Any failure is on your shoulders if you can't be bothered to try to make good with your asset-holders.

BUT NEFARIO IS HOLDING MY BTC SO I CAN'T PAY ANYBODY!!!... the sooner you give him a BTC addy to send your balance to, the sooner you have them. this is a problem of your own making, man up, shut the F up, and give him an address to send your coin to, the only one preventing it is Goat himself.

Come on! Are the rest of you really so damned stupid that you keep falling for all of the BS that keeps getting posted? Are so many of you honestly so incapable of spotting BS and calling people on it when you see it?

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK people...

Grow up.

-- Smoov

Alright, look... I'm completely serious here, no joke...

You seriously need to learn what you're talking about, because you're just talking out of your ass.

Do yourself a favor and instead of your continued trolling, do something to actually learn something about what stocks and bonds are.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you keep showing a pretty clear unwillingness to even learn about how things are actually done in the real world here.

Honest advice here, please heed it.

-- Smoov

He's giving you perfectly sensible and logical advice, Goat. Seriously, if you're going to continue to be involved in financial dealings, you're going to have to do better than you've been doing.

Nobody wants to financially back someone apparently incapable of working out things for himself.

Quit being an ass.

-- Smoov

The contract  between you and Goat was in effect at the time you purchased the shares from Goat. You didn't buy them from GLBSE, and you didn't enter into a contract with GLBSE. The contract listed on the info page for that issue, wasn't between Goat and GLBSE, and it wasn't between GLBSE and you, it was between Goat and you.

The only purpose of the code, is so Goat can match up on his list, who owns what. GLBSE operated by keeping asset-holder's identities anonymous.

You're imagining a problem that simply doesn't exist.GLBSE doesn't have that obligation to you. TYGRR shares aren't listed at GLBSE anymore, and they are not obligated to continue handling accounting for assets that aren't even on his exchange anymore.

The claim code represents your identity. Nothing more.

As for GLBSE's obligation to keep you out of needless trouble? That argument could be used to support GLBSE's delisting of the TYGRR assets, but even if it doesn't get used that way, GLBSE is under no obligation to save you from yourself, or to manage the assets you own, of a company that isn't even trading on their platform anymore.

Your ability to 'redeem' your codes is entirely in Goat's hands. He is handling the management of his asset's owners now himself.

-- Smoov

You seriously don't have a clue what you're talking about do you?

You would assume wrong.

GLBSE's obligation to companies listed with his exchange, is to handle the accounting of who has what. TYGRR issues, are no longer listed with his exchange, and his exchange no longer handles that accounting

The claim codes aren't for "redeeming", they are so Goat can match up which shares belong to which asset-holder.

Since GLBSE operates with anonymous asset-holders, the claim codes represent the owner of the asset shares. It is up to the asset-holder, to self-identify themselves to Goat, so Goat knows who owns which shares.

The asset shares, were always associated with Goat's issues. They never belonged to, nor were in the possession of, GLBSE. All GLBSE did, was facilitate the trading of other people's shares, and handle the accounting work for the listed issue. Any obligations towards the shares you owned, are between you and the asset-issuer, via the contract they posted.

All of the companies that trade via the NYSE, don't give their shares to the NYSE, and the NYSE doesn't handle the shares themselves. They just handle the accounting and match buy and sell orders, and facilitate the transaction between the 2 third parties that want to exchange the shares between each other.

At no time, does the NYSE keep the shares in their possession. The listed companies get the lists of transactions, showing which shares were traded, and between who. (although, it is typically brokers in this case)

When a company delists from the NYSE, either voluntary, or through eviction, you may or may not get any warning about it. The company is supplied records showing the last state of trading at the time of the delisting, and the NYSE is no longer involved. The companies would either deal with their shareholders directly, or re-list on another exchange, like the NASDAQ. Companies moving from one exchange to another, or delisting to go private, is not necessarily common, but it isn't unusual either.

Being delisted from the GLBSE, just means that the TYGRR issues, are no longer traded through the GLBSE. That's it. It doesn't mean that you've been robbed of your shares, or that Nefario kept them, which he hasn't. Your shares still exist, as they always have, as that is between you and the company/issuer. The only thing that has changed, is it is not as convenient to trade them now as they used to be, since now, essentially, you're dealing with a private company/issue.

-- Smoov

I would recommend people who hold assets of the delisted company, contact the person who is operating the delisted company, as that person is who controls your shares.
What obligations to you are you talking about?

-- Smoov

...which is where the claim codes come in.

GLBSE has already assisted... the rest is up to Goat.

-- Smoov

He is of course... he should have crossed out the code with a #2 pencil to avoid double-crediting. And, he should work quickly to get as many people linked up to their claim codes as possible, as the longer he drags this out, the worse it gets.He verifies it by comparing against the list. His trust issues, aren't relevant. He is manufacturing this controversy. As long as the codes and quantities people submit, match up with the list, I don't see what the problem is. As asset-holders, as this typical-goat thing drags on, he would be better off worrying about his own trust, instead of this attempt to cause Nefario and GLBSE harm the way he's doing.GLBSE hasn't abandoned their customers. Goat and his issues have been evicted. This is a mess of Goat's creation. When he dragged their dispute out into the public to drag it through the mud, for the sole purpose of hurting Nefario and GLBSE, he earned the eviction.

If he refuses to honor the claim codes, then he deserves to be branded a scammer, for abandoning his fiduciary duty to his shareholders.

If he honors them, and he starts getting competing claims, which I don't see happening unless he let his computer get compromised, or someone's account on GLBSE got hacked, then if he was smart (which I am no longer sure about), he would hold onto those until the issue is resolved.

At this point, the only thing he should be doing, is be taking people's claim codes, along with their contact information, and building up his asset-holder list. Then, if duplicate claims are submitted, then those shares are put on hold until the dispute has been resolved... preferably privately, and not dragged through the forum...

Nobody has any right to expect any further cooperation from GLBSE, as they are no longer involved in managing Goat's issues. Goat has the share breakdowns with the claim codes, and all of the asset-holders can obtain their claim codes through the portfolio page. Nefario has met his duty at this point, and is no longer involved.

-- Smoov

Just clearing the order book without suspending trading would have been helpful too...

When Vircurex announced they were going to stop I0C trading, I didn't find out for a few hours, and lost a bundle, on pending orders that were set expecting normal trading. I would have preferred a trading halt, or having the order book wiped, as something that significant initiated by the exchange, sparks off a situation which could cause a lot of damage to people who didn't see the notice in the first few minutes after it was posted.

-- Smoov

Oh, he understands, but is being deliberately obtuse, so he can continue trying to fan up this 'controversy' to try and damage Nefario and GLBSE over the fake shares he wanted Nefario to buy from him, at the price he wanted.

Now he's in tantrum-mode.

-- Smoov

Ok, since you haven't been paying attention I'll walk you through it.

Goat was sent a list of claim codes, and the # of shares associated with those codes. That alone, is all he needs, to know the breakdown of the shares.

On your portfolio page, the TYGRR assets now show "Delisted", with a "Click here for info." link.

On the info page, you will find the # of shares you had at the time of the delisting, your claim code, which will match the entry on the list Goat now has.

You are also supplied with the username of the asset issuer, as well as the contact email address that was on file.

Any further dealings with the issue, are no longer being facilitated by GLBSE, and you now have to deal with Goat directly, when trading your shares, and collecting dividends.

Any dividends earned by shares that haven't been claimed yet, should be set aside, preferably with an escrow, so when those shares are claimed, the dividends they have earned, can be distributed to the proper owner of those shares.

Everyone has a unique claim code.

GLBSE continues to keep the info available about how many shares you had at the time trading of those issues stopped, for your benefit, but GLBSE no longer handles the accounting for Goat.

Goat now administers his issues personally, unless he gets the issues re-listed at another exchange, at which point the claim codes will allow him to get the shares allocated to the proper asset-holder's account at the new exchange, if the asset-holder has an account there.

-- Smoov

Hardly...Then you would be abandoning your duty to your asset-holders.No, it wouldn't be like that at all, and why would people take it to GLBSE to collect BTC? Your issue isn't listed there anymore.

GLBSE has nothing else to do with your issues, other than to give the asset-holders the claim codes linked to the asset counts on your list, at the time of delisting.

-- Smoov

Oh, nice, now you pretend that I go around hiding my posts and deleting them.

I haven't deleted a single post in my life, and everything I said, I stand behind.

I'll say it all again in other venues if you wish, just to get it all well distributed if you like.

In fact, how about I make up some hardcopy for you while I'm at it?

What kind of font do you like?

Get a grip, Goat...

-- Smoov

I'll post where I please, tyvm, and since this is where the conversation I'm replying to is happening, this is where I'm replying.

There is nothing wrong with the system, and I understand it perfectly, as do you.

The only difference is, I'm not pretending that I don't understand it.

You brought this situation on yourself, and now you have to manage your own asset-holder lists and dividends, manually. When things go wrong, who will we blame? You of course. You lost your scapegoat. You no longer have someone else managing it for you.

You and I already tossed this around in IRC and you're still perpetuating this fiction that Nefario is  holding your remaining BTC balance hostage, and that all of the assets are still on GLBSE, which are untrue.

You won't supply an address to have your remaining BTC balance sent to, so the only person preventing you from reclaiming your remaining BTC, is you.

GLBSE never had possession of the assets of your listings. All it did, was keep track of who owned what, and facilitated trading the shares between the people who wanted to buy or sell them, but the exchange never owned or had possession of them.

You have enough information to match up asset-holders to the quantities on the list you were sent, and just because you aren't happy with the way the list was sent to you, is immaterial.

Now quit being a whiney bitch, man up, and handle your business, and knock it off with this stupid-act you're playing, trying to start a public brawl.

If you had kept your dispute with Nefario private, in PM, maybe with a 3rd party acting as a mediator, you may have ended up with a better result, but this isn't your M.O.

You are your own worst enemy in this, and brought this all upon yourself.

Sorry, Goat, but you over-played your hand this time.

-- Smoov

Yep... could end up in disaster, certainly...

However, since GLBSE doesn't manage your asset-holder lists for you anymore, there is no longer someone else to blame and use as a scapegoat, so any disaster from this point forward will be your own fault, and yours alone.

-- Smoov

No he wouldn't.

Not being allowed to sell them to a non-shareholder without a current-shareholder vote of approval, is not the same as _having_ to sell to you if you wanted to buy.

They're his shares... if he wanted to sell them to another shareholder, but specifically did not want to sell them to you, he is under no obligation to sell them to you, just because you wanted them.

-- Smoov

*.BOT
*.BOND-A
*.BOND-B
*.BOND-P
*.TECH

all showing the same delisted status

-- Smoov

Oh, wait, I read that wrong initially...

No exchange = GTFO? what is he even talking about there...

but, he wasn't calling us fools when he said "I will stick to TBX and SC2 fools."

If he was, there would be a comma between 'SC2' and 'fools', but there isn't one there, so what he was actually saying is that he was going to stay with the TBX and SC2 fools.

Just for clarification, since, sometimes the nuances of the english language can get lost, coming from people who don't natively speak it.

-- Smoov

... and say it with a pirate accent ...

-- Smoov