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im sorry to say this again.. but
stop drilling for a money grab.. remember bitcoin foundation.. it didnt work
also befor getting obsessed about a money grab. you need to have some basics of WHAT people are donating towards.. not some flimsy story of 'helping expand bitcoin' but some actual structure, data, statistics, idea's knowledge.
it does not cost anything for people to go to meetup.com or set up an 'event' on facebook and tell their local community about it.
EG
"BITCOIN MEETUP, local cafe, anyone interested to get involved is welcome to come"
setting up a slack or IRC with a bot that has a chatlog is not a big thing either so that people can discuss their findings more centrally.. infact they can even use the local sections of this very forum to formalise plans.
then they can discuss kickstarters for their projects by outlaying a plan of action and naming who is involved and how it will work.
things like this dont take larg capital to setup nor months.. it can be done for free/dirt cheap and in hours/days..
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Higher exits are always welcome and as people will get educate they will think to get share of Bitcoins as considering investment. As. Popularity increase demand will also increase. And end results will be price increase of Bitcoin.
more blind rhetoric from sig spammer that only cares about returning to fiat without understanding bitcoin. or the failures of fiat. if you have not learned how fiat has failed people. and you want to return to fiat one day then i feel sorry for you when bitcoin reaches $10,000 (700,00INR) and you find out all you can buy with your fiat is a few loaves of bread. yet sticking with bitcoin could have bought you alot more and improved your life more without planning to return to fiat |
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OP.. sorry but no
if the plan is just to get random people to buy bitcoin and the only reason is to push the price up for profit.. i have to say Hell no.
what should be done. can be done and does not require people paying a middleman(escrow) to be a markting fund manager is this:
get local people to set up their own local meetups. find out by then having their own 'think tanks' / brainstorm groups ask / think / discuss what their local community may want and need.
EG developing countries wont use bitcoin due to the tx fee alone costing as much as a chicken breast/3 lettuces.. instead they will want remittance access via face to face btc<->fiat swaps.
EG silicon valley and developed countries will look at daily use and making btc payments more user friendly (NFC smartwatch/wristband hardware wallets)
EG tourist area's will want merchant/exchanges (bureau de change)
where each area should concentrate on developing the infrastructure of bitcoin. and then.. and only then start advertising the SERVICES and UTILITY of bitcoin in their area.. not just the 'speculative profits' of investing on the hopes of continual deflations as just a reserve currency
best quote their is.. the movie field of dreams
"if you build it they will come"
there is no point asking people to come into bitcoin if there is not much utility to see in their local area. the trick is to make bitcoin functional in the area then people will naturally come towards it.
if all you care about is an end goal of a larger fiat price. then you are not a bitcoiner but a fiat speculator
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im sorry but adam back has publicly said he does not code for bitcoin, even his second in command has said adam back is not involved in bitcoin.
im sorry but hyperledger, IBM, etc, etc have nothing to do with bitcoin,
so why the hell is adam back attending and noted as the main guy... oh wait..
i forgot,
adam back wants to direct the direction bitcoin takes because he needs to commercialise it to make returns of near $100mill to his banker investors.
if anyone has not yet woken up to the obvious, then please keep one eye open in regards to what happens next
this round table is not going to be a open room for devs to discuss developing bitcoin based on its open permissionless ethos, but instead its a kiss ass exercise to tempt merchants and pools over to blockstreams plans.
all fully paid for by blockstream.
do not expect an unbiased open discussion coming out of it, just expect lots of fake applauds for cores efforts and lots of applauds for making onchain tx's become more bloated in the future as a plan to push people away from using onchain transactions for individual needs.
EG averaged 400bytes become well over 1kb once more blockstream features are added (confidential commitments, etc) which inevitably will push down the 'expectant' post segwit (and pre 2013) 7tx/s.... to drop back down to 3tx/s once again..
with all the banking (hyperledger) guys mentioned i see this all inclusive vacation to mainly talk about how bitcoin(thanks to their ignorance) cant scale and end up talking about tethering bitcoin to the bankers hyperledger as a sidechain.
say goodbye to permissionless peer to peer currency ethos and say hello to a 2018 'bank product' like side chains and coomercial LN hubs
rant over
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I think this one is made up for specific domestic language. Most of time people who are already in Bitcoin environment want to educate new user who are still not aware about Bitcoin. By increasing number of users with proper education board to Bitcoin can increase demand in market for Bitcoin.
But still awareness about Bitcoin is must as per my acknowledgement to local levels.
just increasing number increases demand in market?? sounds like someone only cares about increasing the fiat price.. meaning they only care about having a higher exit price when they want to return to fiat. the mindset should be on understanding bitcoins UTILITY within a local area and pushing the UTILITY. which would then bring more users EG, field of dreams - 'if you build it, they will come' |
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Isn't it a harder goal to achieve influencing merchants to accept bitcoin if there is almost zero bitcoin users in your area? That goal can be set later when there is already a considerable users in your area. For the mean time, you can start with the people around you. If you can't even influence the people around you, no doubt you can't influence merchants to accept bitcoin.
that is a chicken and egg question. and thats why before approaching merchants. before approaching the non involved public. you get a metup of those that do use bitcoin already and ask where they would spend btc and/or what they would like to do with their coins EG. if you meet at a cafe once a week. get that cafe to accept bitcoin. then as the 'meetups' grow the cafe see's more use. then when asking all that attend what other places they spend fiat but would prefer to spend btc.. you then seek out that merchant. and use the cafe as the 'example' to explain to other merchants. if you live in an area where the bitcoin tx fee is a few lettuces, a chicken breast amount, where. then find what would be useful services instead of merchants. EG exchanges, remittance, etc. so set up a way to face-to-face exchange btc fit fiat like i said start small, ORGANISE, then let the ball roll. |
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Yes in most of the countries there is almost no efforts are being taken by bitcoin users to build bitcoin awareness. In my country almost less than 1% people heard of bitcoin, so we can see this as an opportunity. We should inform our friends and family members about this technology because they are going to use it in next 10 years so why not now? I see a very optimistic picture if everyone in this community informs at least 12 people in the year 2017.
not quite. dont play the pyramid theorem game of informing X people and hope they inform X*X people .. purely in relation to buying bitcoin. get a group together and think about bitcoin utility. ask the group what shops they spend their fiat in most. what main car fuel stations they visit most. get a list of popular destinations that would get frequent spending if that merchant accepted bitcoin. once you have got merchant acceptance locally for people to buy toilet paper, foood and car fuel.. then start telling random people about the utility of bitcoin. dont just advertise bitcoin in relation to investment profiting by using sketchy marketing strategies (pyramid theorems) think more about bitcoins UTILITY in your area I think these is a better approach too. Do not influence people to use bitcoins because it will be useless. They can't use it in a practical manner, like buying groceries, gas, food, etc, like what franky has mentioned. If we can get more businesses to accept bitcoin as payment method, then that would be much better. yep. the only issue in places like india. is that bitcoins transaction fee can be 6-30 rupee (9cents-40cents) where just using bitcoin has the FEE cost alone equivalent to some of theseMilk (regular), (0.25 liter) 10.74 Rs Loaf of Bread (125.00 g) 6.74 Rs Rice (white), (0.10 kg) 4.81 Rs chicken Eggs (2.40) 11.57 Rs Local Cheese (0.10 kg) 30.29 Rs Chicken Breasts (0.15 kg) 30.67 Rs Banana (0.25 kg) 11.25 Rs Oranges (0.30 kg) 18.29 Rs Tomato (0.20 kg) 6.24 Rs Potato (0.20 kg) 4.80 Rs Onion (0.10 kg) 2.78 Rs Lettuce (0.20 head) 6.59 Rs would you use bitcoin if it cost 1-5 lettuces or a breast of chicken? local area's need to think less about just getting people to buy bitcoin but think about what people need and use it for. EG may not be great for buying toilet paper but may be great for remittance. so set up a remittance exchange. rather than just asking people to buy bitcoin for no reason the important thing is to be honest with those you talk to or they will drop bitcoin if they find it useless for them. find out what your communities NEEDS are and look at how bitcoin can IN REALITY (not hope/speculation) help with |
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Ok... Well thank you both for you answers (especially your detailed one frank1  ) But as a non technician I'm not sure I understood EVERYTHING xD From what I get the idea is not to separate the network in two, it's not a conflictual change but more an agreement on which type of data each side would consider. So it means that if 95% of miners switch to SG the last 5% wouldn't really have a choice but to switch too no? Otherwise they would have nothing but orphans blocks! There is just one thing I'm really not sure of, Carlton Banks you say that the choice "is made when choosing the version of bitcoin you use". But... I never made this choice, I got bitcoin but no idea of which "version" they are! Is it my electrum wallet which chose for me (i.e. by using electrum I'm using a certain version of bitcoin without even knowing)? just holding bitcoin doesnt make you a (in layman's) voter. you need to run a full node to be part of the network. litenodes and webwallets are just convenient side services. and not part of the real network electrum(the company/devs) themselves can choose which code version they prefer, and set their main full node(their server) as such, but your use of electrum has no impact on their choice. or on what the consensus becomes. same with things like coinbase, blockchain.info. you can use any of these lite/web wallets. but the main fullnode that your lite/webwallets connect to, do not give individual users a vote. there are estimate 2million+ people with bitcoin. (most mainly hoard coins in webwallet/exchanges) but there are under 6000 full nodes securing the bitcoin network rules and under 30 mining pools creating blocks that fit the rules. soft forks only form consensus using the mining pools 'vote' hardforks form consensus using the full node 'vote' and then if node consensus is reached. the mining pool 'vote'. (double elections to secure real safe victory or defeat) |
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Yes in most of the countries there is almost no efforts are being taken by bitcoin users to build bitcoin awareness. In my country almost less than 1% people heard of bitcoin, so we can see this as an opportunity. We should inform our friends and family members about this technology because they are going to use it in next 10 years so why not now? I see a very optimistic picture if everyone in this community informs at least 12 people in the year 2017.
not quite. dont play the pyramid theorem game of informing X people and hope they inform X*X people .. purely in relation to buying bitcoin. get a group together and think about bitcoin utility. ask the group what shops they spend their fiat in most. what main car fuel stations they visit most. get a list of popular destinations that would get frequent spending if that merchant accepted bitcoin. once you have got merchant acceptance locally for people to buy toilet paper, foood and car fuel.. then start telling random people about the utility of bitcoin. dont just advertise bitcoin in relation to investment profiting by using sketchy marketing strategies (pyramid theorems) think more about bitcoins UTILITY in your area |
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Wow this is great, but in my country Bitcoin awareness is almost zero, most people never heard of it ans few that do don't understand what it is or how it works.
bitcoin is just code. it has no arms. no legs and no voice. it is up to PEOPLE to get merchant acceptance, and used locally. if bitcoin has near zero activity in YOUR area. then this is YOUR opportunity to raise awareness. do not wait around for a bitcoin superman to fly in and become the hero for you.. YOU need to become the hero. after all it is YOUR area, no one is going to fly halfway across the world for free to raise awareness in YOUR area. so YOU need to become that person in YOUR area. how? start small.. think of a popular meetup place. (cafe/bar) and then advertise a local meetup for people that are interested in bitcoin. look at sections of this forum that are more dedicated to your local area and start finding out who else is nearby. get together and discuss what you all would like to see happen. find the most confident, and most bitcoin knowledgable person out of your locals and get them to be the main source of info. brainstorm, create a thinktank. business networking groups and inspire each other to look after and grow bitcoin awareness and especilly utility in your area |
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Why not activate Segwit and get more transactions in per block? LN will be years more away if Segwit does not get activated soon. Politics is what's causing this "stalemate". But have no fear, sooner or later somebody has to give way and do a selfless act for the good Bitcoin.
because segwit even after activation is not a promise/guarantee of more transactions. even with 100% utility only expect 7tx/s the same expectation as bitcoin had 2009-2013 because LN can function now, the whole malleation war cry is empty.. due to multisig requiring 2 signatures meaning some malicious person cannot double spend against the other because both sides need to sign. what gets broadcast into a block is accepted by both sides. also LN is not the end solution for scaling. its just a service on the side. not all bitcoin users will see advantage/need for LN. |
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are they referring to the github repository 'key' that finalises individuals efforts into a final commitment
are they referring to the alert 'key' that just sends a notification to nodes.
well its not only gavin that used/no longer gavin that uses these.
now its in the hands of blockstream
and this is why we need more diversity and more alternatives so that blockstream dev's are not the only ones dictating the road bitcoin should take.
i do find it funny that they mention gavins name when its obvious gavin is not involved in core.
but i guess its phase three of the RECKed campaign.. to point fingers away from blockstream and towards a dev thats not blockstream to switch the victim/perpetrator visual.
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There could be a way to provide short selling "insurance" that could benefit all parties. The problem is if the price rises too much and you short sell you could lose a ton of money. You could write an insurance "policy" that refocuses payoff targets for every X jump in price that would allow you to short sell Bitcoin indefinitely.
short selling would involve the insurance company hoarding customers actual 'protected' coins. to be able to short them in the background for profit. rather then promising to buy them under certain conditions. being a vault for peoples funds and offering them only $500 worse case sounds nasty. most people would prefer to keep their own funds and instead only hand them over if a term is met hense why i feel a resistance point exchange is more logical than a 'insurance', the end result/goal is similar, but the headaches are less.. |
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If the fee continues to climb, all that will happen is that people start using an alt to store and move money. Ether has rather blotted it's copybook, but at some point an alt will emerge that will solve most of bitcoins problems.
it's kind of obvious - ltc. but no one seems to want to use it. features don't matter compared to trust and bitcoin has the trust. however i've already pretty much given up buying stuff with it because of the expense and if i do continue to buy with crypto then i'll be looking for other options. its kind of more obvious.. Gmaxwell loves his monero.. just wish he stopped negatively messing with bitcoin and calling it a fake positive |
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Yeah, this is basically a hedge against volatility. That sort of thing is available in the stock market, but the bitcoin market is probably too fractured and too small for this. But maybe not. It's definitely not a bad idea, but it's something only people with a lot of money would want. Not sure how many big-money investors are around and if they'd want to buy this sort of protection from a random guy on the internet. No offense intended.
most fiat regulations are starting to implement rules where fiat based trading actually halts trading if a price crash drops by X% im pretty sure bitcoin exchanges can themselves implement their own resistance point mechanisms without needing third party insurances. thus avoiding the paperwork and logistics or 'insurance' sorry for being a buzzkill to the topic creator. im just offering out of the box opinions and thoughts to consider |
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translation of OP's post.
for a small fee. you become a member of a club. that no matter what happens he will buy your coins off you for $500+
to me declaring yourself as an insurance provider in many countries requires you having an insurance registration and also a liability policy.
but what you are actually offering in reality is a resistance point market making exchange. where the resistance point (price wont fall below) is set at $500.
i can see benefits of this.(if done right honourably and transparently)
but i can see issues too
1. customers will need to know your real location (no PO BOX/virtual office/mail drop box) to slap you with a wet fish/court order should you disappear if times become tough.
2. most people wont join now. but wait for a price crash of under say, $600 before being tempted and then will not like to see crappy terms and conditions avoiding payouts, such as 'having had to be a member for 12 months', as an example.
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I didn't realize VISA is now offering censorship-proof transactions and a store of value which, done correctly, can not be seized.
Oh, that's right, VISA doesn't offer those things and that's why a comparison between VISA and Bitcoin is ridiculous.
Those screaming for on-chain scaling think they need censorship-proof transactions when purchasing a coffee and a doughnut.
Governments around the world continue to implement increasingly strict capital controls and the reason Bitcoin has value is because people can use it to avoid those controls. Confirmation speed and fees are inconsequential in the face of that utility.
nothing against LN for a small niche side service that is optional for small regular spenders like gamblers, adsense and faucet raiders.. but dont scream that LN is the end goal and solution to bitcoin scaling |
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I don't know if Bitcoin is finished, but some time ago everybody was talking about the positive things Bitcoin brings. Very cheap transactions where a big point. It's not the case anymore.
Transaction fees can and are still cheaper than most fees for traditional money transfer services. The fee is also more predictable when you go to send unlike with other money transfers such as PayPal. But at last we can handle many transactions per second. Oh i forgot, we can not. thank god we are decentralized....
All i see is talk about the price. People forget the technology. To bad.
If segwit is activated and used, then we can handle more transactions per second than we do now. Once layer 2 solutions such as the Lightning Network and sidechains get started then we will handle much much more tps than right now. fee's are cheaper for the western developed countries half of the time.. but expensive for developing countries all of the time if segwit is activated no guarantee of extra tx count. infact even if 100% of people used segwit the tx count will still end up being 7tx/s (as oppose to 3tx/s now).. but in 2009-2013 the metric was about 7tx/s capability anyway.. as for cores promise of fee discount if segwit activated.. thats a fake discount. pushing the price up and then discounting only part of a transaction and only the transaction of their feature.. wont even bring average prices down to levels of pre 2016 as for LN.. thats just a side service for those that want/need it. dont be stupid to think everyone needs it and dont expect it to be bitcoins end goal. as for sidechains.. be honest and call it what it really is.. an altcoin! .. then try not to be so happy about coaxing people to think altcoins are better and stick to thinking about bitcoins network we should not be driving users down a one way road into permissioned services by pushing up the permissionless system |
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if people dont understand how.. this old post explains. yea gmaxwell tweaked it in 0.13.2 to not work for latest average block in the hopes it adds some reactivity to pretend to alleviate it. but its still a problem using 'averages' which dont make the fee's drop reactively when demand is low. but actually keeps fee's up. even when other blocks are low demand. EG take a 25 block average.. imagine first 24 are 0.0001 and the 25th is 0.0025 then look at the 'average' after that.. even if demand was near 0 and no one was pushing the fee up.... the "average" itself pushes up  still not sure.. go open a spreadsheet document and run some averaging scenarios for yourself, see how easy it is to cause an upward rise even without demand being constant. many pools are/have decided to avoid using cores built in average fee feature. but nodes will still end showing an average of fee's, if pools used it |
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twisting the question around to emphasize the expense part of the question..
well a tonne of gold is expensive
a whole company is expensive
amazons server farm is expensive
thats why you only buy
ounces
shares
racks
bitcoin allows you to buy Bits and Sats
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