Oh come on. its because people like me sold? that proposal passed with thousands of yes votes and about 2 no votes! Ridiculous argument
binance spinning up masternodes and stealing the reward.

I'm going to tune out of this ridiculousness now. Good luck with it

I won't be accepting that invitation to your podcast but its to your credit you seem willing to try and understand why this is a bad idea (on the surface at least). Its strange to me that people can't grasp it. I don't see whats hard to understand.

As soon as Ryan Taylor's first reward 'adjustment' was made I sold my entire Dash position. I felt forced out !

If or when a day comes where the reward is swung firmly into POW realm I'll buy Dash again and be very happy to. Simply not pushing through this latest proposal is nowhere near enough.

I'm talking 80% POW, 10% treasury, 10% Masternodes, something in that ballpark. While we're at it lets get rid of chainlocks. the most harmful thing it has contributed is a belief that we don't need POW

I'm not holding my breath. I still follow Dash because I always loved this coin going back to the darkcoin days. But I don't expect those circumstances I favour will materialise.

edit- Just to add I don't think Masternode owners would be punished in that scenario I just mentioned. Everyone would benefit from a more valuable token, including masternode owners who would enjoy the value of their collateral rising immensely. Capital gains would dwarf what they get as income now.

Did you delete posts so yours would be top of the most recent page, pushing mine to the end of the previous page ? Haha same back to you  
Its quite a pitiful gesture to be honest, does anyone even come here anymore?

So, don't you have a real response to my post ? I showed with charts the empirical evidence that the last reward adjustment to punish proof of work was a failure. As judged by the market. Now you want to punish POW even more. Its a sad sad time. Dash Core Group should be defunded. these people are devs and should stick to what they know. they have no business making these absolutely horrible economic decisions. They have ruined this project, sucking the value out of the token.

I'll tell you what happens when masternode payments and treasury spending is increased. Dash bombs. The evidence is proven. Soon to be off the first page of coinmarketcap for good.

I take no pleasure in seeing this project run into the ground. This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what needs to happen.

Please refer to toknormal's many posts on the matter.

Additional

Last time the reward allocation was changed to the disadvantage or mining, Ryan Taylor argued the exact same argument. That miners are net sellers. Dash doesn't need hash rate, more masternodes will come on line and lock up collateral ... blah blah blah blah BLAH

Heres what happened.


The last reward adjustment has been PROVEN by the market, to be a miserable failure.Why on earth double down on what is a disaster for the project ?!

The dash price was at key areas that should have given support (blue lines). Then Ryan Taylor and the shambolic bunch of masternode owners pulled that allocation adjustment.

 Very sad day for dash back then

Very sad day yet again. You learn nothing and deserve the consequences of this.  

1 satoshi can absolutely equal $1 in the future. this will signify a collapse of a fiat currency which has happened many times. The US dollar is not immune. Politics and banker greed causes it.

The real question is will 1 satoshi ever be too valuable to be practical as the smallest unit of bitcoin. If that does happen there is nothing in the bitcon whitepaper to say you can't add more decimal places. Maybe in te future we will need 100ths of a satoshi. That iwould be easy to do

I'm quite suprised noone mentioned this already

I sold out all my Dash too. I was a huge believer in the project. until the vote to give more supply to masternodes. Which was an epic fail by all standards.

The argument was something like, miners sell their coins and masternode holder don't so less selling will make price go up. And more supply 'rewarded' to masternodes will entice more masternodes to come online so more will be hodl'd and price will go up. masternode holders loved that and wouldn't listen to good sense arguing otherwise. it was almost like they dont like proof of work.

So lets have a look shall we, heres the number of masternodes since the reward allocation was changed, marked with a big red arrow.



oh dear.

and here's price. same story.



As people like toknormal and myself and very few others pointed pointed out all along. this wont work. guess what we were right.

IF instead, with a reward allocation favoring proof of work and paying masternode holders enough only to cover costs of running a cheap node, dash could have been above the likes of litecoin and monero now.

It was obvious (to some) that Dash masternode holders made a huge error of judgement, voting more masternode reward for themselves. Based on their own greed they screwed this project. Such a shame.

it really is a credit to dash that it is clinging in the top 100 when you consider how much of the supply is given away almost for free with every... single ... block

You sound like a devotee of Warren Buffet.  I view gold as money which might not really be a commodity, I don't know, maybe it depends who makes the definitions. Buying gold may not be investing. Gold is gold. Buying gold is like saving or protecting your wealth. This would all be good except the banksters long ago figured out how to manipulate the gold market via derivatives. This era may be coming to an end however, (or may not.. but i can dream). It seems the BRICS countries may be keen on moving away from fiat control by the west from things i hear about.  I always viewed bitcoin in a similar way to gold except there were no derivative markets and the banksters didn't yet own the market. I think this is still largely true (there are some bitcoin ETFs and futures markets now). For me physical gold, physical silver and bitcoin (holding your own private keys) are about stating your sovereignty. Taking your wealth outside the system and protecting it. In this era of global monetary 'easing' or printing you may well do better than just protecting wealth.  

Thanks for all the comments, I didn't see too much in the way of disagreement that we are around the low of the bitcoin cycle so far. It would be an interesting debate though if there are those who disagree.

On this long timescale I can't rule out another drop in price, I am not saying we have seen the low (although it is possible and maybe even likely)  however I still maintain this will be the region where the bottom is forming in this cycle, even if there is another leg down.  

There comes a point where the weak hands have all capitulated and strong hands more reluctant to sell. The collapse of FTX and all that may have been a way to flush out many of the remaining weak hands. (As I've seen in previous cycles with the FBI seizure of Silk Road) for example,.

Thought I'd share another chart showing some evidence things may start to turn bullish. This is a 1 day chart



Please note i nearly always use Heikin Ashi style candles and price on a log scale, as in this chart here.

What I am drawing attention to is a bullish divergence where even though the price is making lower lows. The RSI Relative Strength indicator is not. This can indicate that the bearish trend reverse is on the horizon.

What do you guys think? are there more bearish things I'm missing? Or bottom is forming here ready for new bull to start?

I've been waving my hands around in the air, chanting, gazing at tea leaves and looking in a crystal ball AND drawing lines on charts

My prediction, good times ahead for bitcoin bulls

Lets be real. bitcoin is deflationary. Most the coin supply is already distributed. Central bankers and globalists are shamelessly using their control of fiat for all kinds of evil. But at the same time they are ruining the credibility of their bits of paper. And inflating it until its value hits zero. They know they are on their last fumes in the tank.  They will try to push CDBC on us. Don't let this happen. Bitcoin is for the people. Can't be censored. Keep your private keys in your control. HODL

Bitcoins dont give a shit about some DeFI centralised exchange going under. Seen  it all before, many times.

Heres the chart






We are bang on the low. Forget stock market correlation. Forget alt coins. Forget stocks and shares.

Buy bitcoin (and gold and silver)

Hold on tight

edit: My opinions though generally pretty good can be wrong. Your own trades or investments are your own risk.

Update: Thanks for the comments on this thread, they are much appreciated. I think I'll try and keep it alive and monitor the progress of my idea that this is the  cyclical minimum. I'll be looking at the market from a technical perspective based on long term trends.  
 

Being part of a consensus has nothing to do with being right. The herd mind is not elevated it is the lowest common denominator

Consensus belief once held that the earth was the centre of the universe with the sun and other planets orbiting in perfect circles. people were persecuted for challenging this belief.

In the case of masternodes there is a mistaken belief that the miners are expensive and have to be paid for by 'the network'. The consequence of this belief is that the reward allocation is always skewed the wrong way. The market punishes masternode coins for airdropping too generous a portion of the supply for free.   The idea is so deeply entrenched that when things aren't going well the proposed solution is to give even less to miners. It doesn't work. Dash has proven this in a real world experiment.

As for your points 1 and 2 i think toknormal has addressed that already. However i might add no one ever said the mining metaphor was a perfect analogy between crypto currency and metal. yes difficulty adjusts for practical reasons, so that block rates stay roughly constant over time. but no matter work is still being done to buy the coins with energy cost.

I'm getting deja vu with this. ok what have we got ? Firo project. Improve tokenomics by spending less on mining. FFS
I'll tell you how it ends. You don't make any waves, you plumment down the rankings. You start irrelevant and thats how it is/

remember Meraki ? (it took me ages to find it)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg53517798#msg53517798


Sounds similar no? where did that end up? It doesn't even have a ranking, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/meraki/

I'm sorry to be unenthusiastic but we need a masternode coin that goes the other way. with mining something like 80% as ballpark. A precious dash. A scarce dash. Not more cheaply airdropped worthless shit.

Why does dash and every single other proof of work masternode coin not see it? what is the point of having proof of work and then trying to eliminate the work? You need to understand bitcoin before you start getting rid of mining

You are too kind to him.  Lets face it he should have been booted out for leading dash in the complete wrong direction, yonks ago. Yes it was an idea. A shit idea. And dash has well and truly paid for it

That shit idea was what persuaded me to sell out.

If the community would have listened to toknormal things would be very different. Tok for economic leadership (and not management).


Page 7000!

The governance is truly f*cked in Dash. In shock vote governors vote more for themselves, less for the rest.

Clinging to a failed idea that hashrate is not needed and miners are net sellers, while ignoring mountains of evidence in the crypto world that Dash hybrid model fails as store of value when so much allocation is given away for free. The only time the allocation is questioned they vote the wrong way! Then deny its lack of effect. It was supposed to entice new masternode owners remember. didn't happen. support price because masternode owners hodl. (allegedly) and miners sell.

 Next they'll be telling me covid vaccinations stop transmission prevent infection. and are safe and effective.  

Great post by the way toknormal

Keep dreaming. It made a fundamental bad problem a bit worse. 'Failed' is a good way to put it. failed to reverse a downtrend although promised to do that. It failed. Because Ryan hasn't got a clue. Doesn't understand proof of work. maybe he should move to peercoin. they have a downtrend in need of reversing.

How I remember Qwizzie..
Yes he did help people with problems. But couldn't debate, quickly resorts to attacking character and reputation instead of addressing the topic at hand, treating genuine members of the community like trolls, caught him lying about me more than once.  Thought he was the authority on everything but in reality clueless about the economics. (Which is a trait shared by most or all the masternode owners to be fair). Gave genuinely terrible investment advice with his perma bull outlook. Probably did more harm than good overall by trying to be the gatekeeper of truth..

Chief Dash propagandist  actually sums it up quite well.


On subject of clueless masternode owners. They famously used their power to vote more reward to themselves and take away reward from miners. Based on flimsy arguments that don't stand up to scrutiny about miners being net sellers which is in fact the exact opposite of reality because miners buy their dash with a real investment in energy and hash power whereas masternode owners (are given) dash with almost no cost to them at all, 20$ per month server.

Despite masternode owners already having a massive unsupportable share of the reward they voted to increase that to even more Dash for themselves. Qwizzie was one of the leading cheerleaders of this disastrous proposal.
Incidentally clueless miners also supported this disaster cluster fuck of a proposal. They had the power to veto it but didn't

I think the passage of time only shows more and more how harmful this was to Dash as a store of value. Mystifies me how it is so hard for people to see these simple truths. If Dash masternode owners ever wise up and vote to give majority share back to miners. I will quickly reinvest back into Dash. I don't believe that day will ever come though. They really are clueless about what Dash is. Too dumb to even see that this is causing the dwindling value of their collateral.  

Miners are paid by who? Dash Core Group? Ryan Taylor? Masternode owners ? The magic dash fountain? who is paying them?

Miners don't just secure the network (that is a side effect if anything), they provide scarcity and thereby value. Mining is an arms race injecting ever more value into the network and the coins.

Unless you are Dash that is

Is there evidence miners are less likely to hodl than masternode owners? I need to see proof because I smell bullshit  

The ones who hold dash should be paid more and the ones who work to earn it less ?

This is why I sold my dash. As an outside investor I see no attraction to get back in

Good luck. You need it

Not sure thats what I was meaning. For me most the voting on treasury spending is usually quite wasteful but thats not really what I'm talking about. That is small beans compared to..

The real vote that hurt dash  and continues to hurt dash every few minutes when a new block is mined was Ryans proposal to change the block reward in the opposite direction to that which was required. Which an overwhelming majority of economically illiterate masternode holders supported without realising it is strangling their golden goose.

Yes it was a small tweak. But of huge importance to the perception of Dash. A massive setback, either delaying the fix that needs to be done or blocking it entirely. Not to mention aggravating further an already serious problem. Even today most masternode holders still believe mining is expensive and serves little purpose. (To a proof of work blockchain!). Thanks Ryan Taylor for steering in the wrong direction. Either he is economically illiterate, blind leading the blind or he is ____ (fill in the blank)

 



In the future dash will be worth shit if they don't fix this. Masternode owners will probably vote for  giving themselves 80% of the block reward to meet non existant 'rising costs'. But that wont be needed anyway they'll be able to run on a rasberry Pi with an ssd drive attached.

But if I play along.. In the future if masternode cost have risen as you say. if they only receive say 5% instead of 50%. The astronomical value of dash by then will easily compensate for new hardware.


This coin is on the way to obscurity. There is nothing to lose by fixing this. Only to gain.

The problem with Dash is that an overwhelming majority of the governors lead by the Dash Core Group CEO Ryan Taylor are completely economically illiterate.

Its such a shame for a promising project to be subject to such woeful leadership, by that I mean the masternode holders.

The block reward will never favour mining which is what is so badly needed. Because the clueless masternode holders won't propose or vote for less for themselves. To be gold like bitcoin you don't give away half the block reward to the governors.

The masternodes provide a service layer on top of a proof of work blockchain. The cost of this is half the block reward. That is far far too much.

Toknormal has explained in detail the mechanics of what is wrong with the current allocation of new minted coins many many times in many different ways. The fact that this overwhelming majority can't see the problem is why Dash is declining down the rankings.

And Ryan Taylor's leadership of Core Group should have been terminated a long time ago because he has been proven wrong by the market and the masternode count.

The argument is intuitive to me. Not it seems to the governors of Dash.

I can't explain it, the lack of willingness to do what needs to be done and fix the reward ratio. Dash has everything in place, just the wrong people calling the shots.

The only certainty to me is that this will not be reversed. Masternode owners must be too short sighted to see the benefit of getting less proportion of the minted coins in exchange for a much higher valuation.

Maybe a factor is too few whales control the vote and are happy with the way things are?

In response to another comment above. Yes dogecoin gets pumped by Musk. A bit like Roger Ver helped pumped Dash at one point. These things are transitory. You can't compare Iota, thats apples and oranges. The bottom line is you can't beat the economic fundamentals.

By the way, the increased incentive to attract more masternodes was a complete failure. Just like the rest of the proposal. Surely there should be question marks over his leadership on this ?