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[ndnh]

thank you for trying to explain especially for me but I can assure you that most (if not all) of the app owners didn't understand the big announcement.

as you already know that I like it kiss and eli5 I will try and go on asking this way till I understand this special announcement. please bear with me and thank you in advance for the patience you need to sacrifice

what changed now for the app owners that was different before? and please I need the answer for app owner and not for MP or investors.

so lets do it step by step

my app has 1% HE like most of the app owners on MP. so lets take 1% and not 3% HE as an example

before we had 0% when a whale came to our app and wagered max and imo the max bet for 0% income for the app owner was 1x Kelly of the BR (please correct me if I am wrong)

what changed now in advantage for the app owner? how much will I get now instead of the 0% in case of a 1x Kelly max bet?

lets see if we can make this point understandable to all the app owners

then I will get to next question if needed

thanks

Just read all 3% as 1%, and all 1.5% as 0.5%.

Thanks NLNico for taking the time to explain it. I'll try put it in different words for JackpotRacer. But let me prefix it with by saying for his case the new scheme is strictly better. There are no circumstances when he'll get paid less than before.

Bets can be put in three categories:

* Less than 0.5x kelly bets

In the binary-bet case (e.g. dice), this is when someone makes a bet trying to win less than half of the house edge of the bankroll. So with a 1% house edge, if the player is trying to win less than 0.5% of the bankroll.

* 0.5x to 1x kelly bets

In the binary-bet case (e.g. dice), this is when someone makes a bet trying to win between 0.5% and 1% the bankroll. So with a 1% house edge, if the player is trying to win between 1% and 0.5% of the bankroll.

* Greater than 1x kelly bets

In the binary-bet case (e.g. dice), this is when someone makes a bet trying to win between >1 of the bankroll. So with a 1% house edge, if the player is trying to win between >1% of the bankroll.


The commissions for placing each type of these bets vary:
* Less than 0.5x kelly bets

Apps get 50% of the house edge on every bet (regardless of outcome). This is paid by investors.

* 0.5 to 1x kelly bets

Apps get between 50% of the house edge, and 0% of the house edge. This is paid by investors in such a way that keeps them kelly-complaint. By default you can make this type of bet, but it has been requested to have an option in the admin panel to block them. As long as you don't offer a rakeback on these type of bets, accepting them is perfectly safe, though.

* >1 x kelly bets

Apps PAY investors to accept the bet.  (Don't worry, you can't accidentally do this type of bet, it can only be done via a confidential app using an explicitly subsidy argument).

--

We think in general apps should restrict themselves to <= 0.5x kelly bets, where their earnings are very predictable: 50% of the house edge. For promotional purposes they might want to use the other sort of bets, or to satisfy whales, or sell magical bet tokens etc.


While at a glance the investor:app profit split might look worse for app developers, to be clear MoneyPot was taking a 50% profit split on app developers earnings, now it takes 0%! All commissions will be taken from investor profits instead.

This makes it strictly better for app developers, although the story for investors is a bit mixed. Most bets investors will now make more, but there are circumstances when they may make less.

Just make your max bet 0.5% of the bankroll if you want 50% HE in all cases. Done.  

[Coef]

So from the investors' point of view, before the 10% commissions on profit, the investors will get 50% of the house edge for all bets with <0.5x Kelly, and for bets with >0.5x Kelly, investors' share on the house edge is calculated exactly according to Kelly formula (80% for 0.8x Kelly, 120% for 1.2x Kelly with 20% compensation from app owner), am I right?

[JackpotRacer]

Just read all 3% as 1%, and all 1.5% as 0.5%.

really? how about to take 1% and translate those numbers to 1%?
please try it and lets see with what you will come up?

Just make your max bet 0.5% of the bankroll if you want 50% HE in all cases. Done. 

ok but this we had before and my question was what is the big change for the app owner after the announcement?

oh sorry I forgot you are not an app owner (my bad) and therefore can't feel any advantage or disadvantage in your pocket as an app owner

thanks for trying

[ndnh]

Just read all 3% as 1%, and all 1.5% as 0.5%.

really? how about to take 1% and translate those numbers to 1%?
please try it and lets see with what you will come up?

I already did?!

[JackpotRacer]

once I received a formula to be sure that I (app owner) always will get about 0.47% = very near to 0.50% of the HE

the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll

bankroll today about 450 and 0.06% of 450 = 0.27

to get the almost 0.50% (0.47%) of the HE my max win allowance for the player should be 0.27
(IMO an app with this tiny max win allowance can forget all whales and even medium whales)

what would be the formula now after the big announcement? anyone can help out with the right multiplier so I (app owner) will have the 0.50% of the HE

thanks

[ndnh]

once I received a formula to be sure that I (app owner) always will get about 0.47% = very near to 0.50% of the HE

the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll

bankroll today about 450 and 0.06% of 450 = 0.27

to get the almost 0.50% (0.47%) of the HE my max win allowance for the player should be 0.27
(IMO an app with this tiny max win allowance can forget all whales and even medium whales)

what would be the formula now after the big announcement? anyone can help out with the right multiplier so I (app owner) will have the 0.50% of the HE

thanks

0.06% => 0.5%

So you get exactly 50% (nothing less) with 2.25BTC max bet (0.5% of 450BTC)

Edit: For 1% house edge.

[MonsterV]

Is bustabit included in the moneypot group ?
If I was an investor moneypot , I would benefit from profit bustabit ?

[joksim299]

Is bustabit included in the moneypot group ?
If I was an investor moneypot , I would benefit from profit bustabit ?

BustaBit is operated by MoneyPot S.L.R. which is the sole owner and bankroller of bustabit.
MoneyPot S.L.R. operate with MoneyPot.com and Bustabit, but you can only invest to MoneyPot.

[JackpotRacer]

thank you for trying to explain especially for me but I can assure you that most (if not all) of the app owners didn't understand the big announcement.

I'm not quite sure this is true, from app developers perspective the new scheme is both simpler and more profitable.

I am sure and as I see I am the only app owner who asked some questions. sure it is weekend and maybe they still sleeping and will jump in anytime soon.

ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets  (the only exception to this is when this would be too risky for investors otherwise).

again that is not right though I would be glad if you correct me and I am totally wrong.
a whale will come to my app and bet 4BTC (BR=450) .....will ,I get 50% of HE?
a medium whale will come to my app and will bet 3BTC ... will I get 50% of HE?
if yes then I understood you right when saying: ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets and if I don't get 50% of the HE of those bets then your ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets was wrong.

ELI5: You get paid more than last time

that sounds nice but in numbers it would be much more understandable for all of us. how much is this more? more is nice but it must be put in relation to something. if I get for all bets as you said 50% of the HE it would be easy for me to have the numbers and it would have been a nice surprise for any app owner.

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

I really appreciate your ELI5 answers. please lets try it also for my last question.
before we (app owners) had 0% of the HE when a whale came to our app and wagered max.......how much do we have now? again 0%?

[MonsterV]

Is bustabit included in the moneypot group ?
If I was an investor moneypot , I would benefit from profit bustabit ?

BustaBit is operated by MoneyPot S.L.R. which is the sole owner and bankroller of bustabit.
MoneyPot S.L.R. operate with MoneyPot.com and Bustabit, but you can only invest to MoneyPot.

Oww ok I understand , although bustabit operated moneypot the same person , but I can not be investor bustabit only in moneypot ,  thanks for info sir 

[ndnh]

I think RHaver actually made all the points clear. I don't think I can explain in any more detail without confusing myself.

Step 1: Read his post.
Step 2: Check whether you understood. No? Go to Step 1.


Edit: Of course if a whale bets very high, you could get 0%. That is why he said to limit the max bet at 0.5% of bankroll (so you get 50% of HE all scenarios). Simple.

[JackpotRacer]

I think RHaver actually made all the points clear. I don't think I can explain in any more detail without confusing myself.

Step 1: Read his post.
Step 2: Check whether you understood. No? Go to Step 1.


Edit: Of course if a whale bets very high, you could get 0%. That is why he said to limit the max bet at 0.5% of bankroll (so you get 50% of HE all scenarios). Simple.

the edit has the answer

but still why would Ryan say ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets

[JackpotRacer]

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

will Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll replace the formula you gave me not so long ago the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll 

thanks

[ndnh]

Edit: Of course if a whale bets very high, you could get 0%. That is why he said to limit the max bet at 0.5% of bankroll (so you get 50% of HE all scenarios). Simple.

the edit has the answer

but still why would Ryan say ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets

There is an exemption part you skipped. See this:

ELI5: You get 50% of the house edge of all bets  (the only exception to this is when this would be too risky for investors otherwise).

--snip--

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

will Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll replace the formula you gave me not so long ago the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll  

thanks

Yes it will. You can wait for Ryan to confirm if you wish.

Edit: Sorry I keep editing.

[JackpotRacer]

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

will Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll replace the formula you gave me not so long ago the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll 

thanks

Yes it will. You can wait for Ryan to confirm if you wish.

nah you are the maths genius why should I wait for Ryan?

but still it would contradict the Apps will now get a constant 50% of the house edge

[ndnh]

Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll, and you'll be guaranteed half the house edge (more than before).

will Set the max-profit to 0.5% of the bankroll replace the formula you gave me not so long ago the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll 

thanks

Yes it will. You can wait for Ryan to confirm if you wish.

nah you are the maths genius why should I wait for Ryan?

but still it would contradict the Apps will now get a constant 50% of the house edge

That is just to make it simple to the reader. The second para has the exemption.

tl;dr version is Apps will now get a constant 50% of the house edge as long as the bet is <=0.5% of the bankroll. So, just make the max bet 0.5% of the bankroll instead of the previous one, and you are done.

[joksim299]

I would like an option to disable public gaming stats and to withdraw balance form all apps at once.

[ranlo]

I would like an option to disable public gaming stats and to withdraw balance form all apps at once.

Thanks, noted. Both very reasonable, and added to our issue tracker.

Great ideas! It'd also be cool if there were like an overall site leaderboard people can choose to show up on, that would take into consideration their profit/wagered from all supported MP sites at once.

[NLNico]

He means leaderboard for players over all sites :p I think.

[dooglus]

once I received a formula to be sure that I (app owner) always will get about 0.47% = very near to 0.50% of the HE

the formula was 0.06% of the bank roll

bankroll today about 450 and 0.06% of 450 = 0.27

to get the almost 0.50% (0.47%) of the HE my max win allowance for the player should be 0.27
(IMO an app with this tiny max win allowance can forget all whales and even medium whales)

I think you misunderstood. You want 47% of the house edge (ie. almost half of it) not 0.47% (ie. about 1/200th of it), and to get that you need to limit bets at 6% of 1% of the bank, ie. 0.27

what would be the formula now after the big announcement? anyone can help out with the right multiplier so I (app owner) will have the 0.50% of the HE

Now you get 50% of the house edge up to 50% of 1% of the bank, ie. 2.25

To get 47%, you can take a bet up to 53% of 1% of the bank, ie.  2.385

So you can increase your limit about 9x.

but still it would contradict the Apps will now get a constant 50% of the house edge

I think it is like this.

before:



after: