MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet

[NLNico]

Just want to explain better my thoughts about the bolded part: contrary of what you wrote I assume JD for BTC would be a better investing option because in the long run (I expect) profit will rise to reach  EV .

Actually, Both options are the same.  JD for BTC and JD for Clams both have a 1% edge.  Just because one is underperforming, and one is overperforming has no impact on future performance.  One can't say that because it is at 0.3%, that the site will have a >1.0% in the future.  It still has 1% in the future.

yes, it might rise up to get to the 1% total in the long run,

But that doenst mean that you as an investor will earn MORE than 1% of wagered in the long run.

Just because it is underperforming, doesnt mean that it'll quickly catch up..  wow this is really hard to explain.

I think that is like the classic gambler's fallacy

The profit should reach EV because the numbers get bigger, not because it's more likely to be "extra EV". The 1% HE is the same for both sites.

In comparison: gamblers say that when you have a coinflip, and after 1000 bets it's 40% tail, it's more likely to be "head" because it will get close to 50%. However, it will get close to 50% because the sample will become bigger, not because there is a bigger chance for any side to win - that's still 50%.

[1715421946]

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[1715421946]

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[a1choi]

I think that is like the classic gambler's fallacy

The profit should reach EV because the numbers get bigger, not because it's more likely to be "extra EV". The 1% HE is the same for both sites.

In comparison: gamblers say that when you have a coinflip, and after 1000 bets it's 40% tail, it's more likely to be "head" because it will get close to 50%. However, it will get close to 50% because the sample will become bigger, not because there is a bigger chance for any side to win - that's still 50%.

Exactly.  Wikipedia has a good gif demonstration of this.  I edited my previous answer a little bit.  but same thinking.

[21million]

Is great discussion but reason for investment is improve business by allow public to be part of. Investment is follow by joint effort to spread word of business I see casino like betterbets promote and ask myself am I doing job as investor to spread word? What good is invest if no player.

Volume decrease by 80% this 2 week past is time for helping from moneypot + investor this what I mean. 

[hopenotlate]

Just want to explain better my thoughts about the bolded part: contrary of what you wrote I assume JD for BTC would be a better investing option because in the long run (I expect) profit will rise to reach  EV .

Actually, Both options are the same.  JD for BTC and JD for Clams both have a 1% edge.  Just because one is underperforming, and one is overperforming has no impact on future performance.  One can't say that because it is at 0.3%, that the site will have a >1.0% in the future.  It still has 1% in the future.

yes, it might rise up to get to the 1% total in the long run,

But that doenst mean that you as an investor will earn MORE than 1% of wagered in the long run.

Just because it is underperforming, doesnt mean that it'll quickly catch up..  wow this is really hard to explain.

I think that is like the classic gambler's fallacy

The profit should reach EV because the numbers get bigger, not because it's more likely to be "extra EV". The 1% HE is the same for both sites.

In comparison: gamblers say that when you have a coinflip, and after 1000 bets it's 40% tail, it's more likely to be "head" because it will get close to 50%. However, it will get close to 50% because the sample will become bigger, not because there is a bigger chance for any side to win - that's still 50%.

Ok fair enough. Completely agree with that.

What I mean is I want to be an investor and prefer starting from a site profit %  smaller than EV percentage. Just because while number are getting bigger they are "working"  to bring back the profit where it should be according to gaussian distribution.

[zzaza]

Is great discussion but reason for investment is improve business by allow public to be part of. Investment is follow by joint effort to spread word of business I see casino like betterbets promote and ask myself am I doing job as investor to spread word? What good is invest if no player.

Volume decrease by 80% this 2 week past is time for helping from moneypot + investor this what I mean. 

I always lost on this "game", i guess it is not for me

[Dannie]

I made this page for it http://dicesites.com/moneypot and the most popular MP site has historical stats/graphs: http://dicesites.com/betterbets If you do the extra math it can give a decent impression of the expectations, although it's not really complete.

I was comparing the numbers on your page and the numbers on the front page of MP. The "Bankroll" and "Investor Profit" seems right (small difference I assume because the stats on dicesites is updated every 15 min only), but there are quite some difference in "Bets" and "Wagered". Why is that the case?

[NLNico]

I made this page for it http://dicesites.com/moneypot and the most popular MP site has historical stats/graphs: http://dicesites.com/betterbets If you do the extra math it can give a decent impression of the expectations, although it's not really complete.

I was comparing the numbers on your page and the numbers on the front page of MP. The "Bankroll" and "Investor Profit" seems right (small difference I assume because the stats on dicesites is updated every 15 min only), but there are quite some difference in "Bets" and "Wagered". Why is that the case?

Technically there are 600+ apps on MP. I only get the stats of somewhat popular ones and get the stats based on that. Bets, wagered and expected profit are each the "sum" from the "popular" MP apps.

So I am guessing the non popular apps total: ~7M bets (will be many small test bets, kinda irrelevant IMO),  315 BTC wagered (1% of total), ~1 BTC expected profit. Overall not much, but I will consider to add it.

Although my current setup is kinda interesting, as it allows you to compare the "total sum profit of listed apps" with the "MP listed profit".


edit: my current criteria to be "somewhat" popular on MP is 10+ wagered OR more than 1 BTC profit/loss.

[Dannie]

I didn't know you have to get the stats of each individual app and add it up yourself. I thought you can get the overall stats directly from MP and there may be some error in parsing. Thanks for your clarification. 

[hua_hui]

Hi hi!!! i decide to give it a try. invest in it! hope it will turn out well for me!!!

[JackpotRacer]

Technically there are 600+ apps on MP. I only get the stats of somewhat popular ones and get the stats based on that. Actually only BR is from a separate source. Bets, wagered, actual profit, expected profit are each the "sum" from the "popular" MP apps.

So I am guessing the non popular apps total: -0.27 BTC profit (actually loss), ~7M bets (will be many small test bets, kinda irrelevant IMO),  315 BTC wagered (1% of total), ~1 BTC expected profit. Overall not much, but I will consider to add it.

Although my current setup is kinda interesting, as it allows you to compare the "total sum profit of listed apps" with the "MP listed profit".


edit: my current criteria to be "somewhat" popular on MP is 10+ wagered OR more than 1 BTC profit/loss.

@NLNico

first of all let me tell you that all your work is very much appreciated and very helpful input for players, investors and app owners

600+ apps is a lot and I hope there will be many more. but who and what decides what is a popular and no popular app?

how would you call this app? if you look at the stats? IMO this app is a very interesting one for investors. IMO investors should know and get stats as much as possible. any investor will anyway at the end pick what is of interest for him.

Wagered           226,716,584 bits
Bets Profit            8,930,565.09 bits (3.94%)
Expected Profit    2,260,382.69 bits (1.00%)

[RHavar]

Hi guys. As of today, the minimum bet will be 1 bit (100 satoshis). Please adjust your app to not allow bets below that, or they're going to give errors. I've repeatedly asked apps not not abuse the low bets with auto-betting, but I'm in the role of constantly playing wack-a-mole with people constantly abusing it (like today someone thinking it's a fantastic idea sending 50, 1 satoshi bets in flight at the same time) which degrades the service for people who are actually trying to bet.  Anyway, I'd like to remind everyone that 1 bit is: $0.00024614  which is an insanely low number anyway =)

[NLNico]

@NLNico

first of all let me tell you that all your work is very much appreciated and very helpful input for players, investors and app owners

600+ apps is a lot and I hope there will be many more. but who and what decides what is a popular and no popular app?

how would you call this app? if you look at the stats? IMO this app is a very interesting one for investors. IMO investors should know and get stats as much as possible. any investor will anyway at the end pick what is of interest for him.

Wagered           226,716,584 bits
Bets Profit            8,930,565.09 bits (3.94%)
Expected Profit    2,260,382.69 bits (1.00%)

My current criteria for the MP page is:

edit: my current criteria to be "somewhat" popular on MP is 10+ wagered OR more than 1 BTC profit/loss.

So I don't really mean "popular" at all (10 BTC wagered is nothing), I just don't want someone to create an app called "NLNico is a loser" and bet 1 bit so it can be on my own website. At least now there would have to be 10 BTC wagered or 1 BTC profit/loss.


edit: okay, I see you are talking about https://www.moneypot.com/apps/644-plaindicecom The problem is that I do not get that app from MP. I think that this is because it says "Domain Not Verified", so I might get it when the domain is verified. Another potential reason is that this app: https://www.moneypot.com/apps/504-plaindicecom has the same name. RHavar, can you confirm if it's either of these reasons?

[RHavar]

edit: okay, I see you are talking about https://www.moneypot.com/apps/644-plaindicecom The problem is that I do not get that app from MP. I think that this is because it says "Domain Not Verified", so I might get it when the domain is verified. Another potential reason is that this app: https://www.moneypot.com/apps/504-plaindicecom has the same name. RHavar, can you confirm if it's either of these reasons?

Yes, that's correct. The "all app stats" only shows apps that have requested me to verify their domain. I figure if someone doesn't even ask that, it's probably just a pure test app.  But I've gone ahead and verified the domain of this app, and now it'll appear.

[JackpotRacer]

edit: okay, I see you are talking about https://www.moneypot.com/apps/644-plaindicecom The problem is that I do not get that app from MP. I think that this is because it says "Domain Not Verified", so I might get it when the domain is verified. Another potential reason is that this app: https://www.moneypot.com/apps/504-plaindicecom has the same name. RHavar, can you confirm if it's either of these reasons?

yes that the app. but those 2 apps are looking to me like a one man show. I mentioned this app because it had in 5 days a nice volume. verified or not verified IMO the investor should know where the volume is coming form and why.

on your site http://dicesites.com/moneypot I don't see many apps (please correct me if I looked at the wrong url)
for example I see apps like
MiniDice Casino = last bet was 3 month ago
BitcoinRush      = last bet was about 2 month ago
Coining A Dice  = last bet was about 21 days ago

IMO those apps are not of interest for investors. maybe in a kind of history stats but those stats gives wrong info to investors who will rely on your list and don't do their own DD

keep up the good work

[NLNico]

Thanks Ryan have been automatically added to my site too.

@Dannie: the total wagered amount is more close again now too



@JackpotRacer: the listed apps are responsible for 99.6% of the total wagered amounts and 99.9% of the profits. So I would say it is pretty complete. When I said that there are technically 600+ apps, I mean that some people created 100 apps for themselves for testing MP for bugs etc. In reality only few of the apps are really active.

You are correct that it also list apps which are already inactive or dead. That is why a gambler/player should definitely "never" visit that page hehe But for investors I think it is still relevant to see that the stats on the MoneyPot site are actually really based on the statistics of all the apps together. So I think it makes sense to list them all (as long as they have some wagered amount.)

But I agree I could add some cool stuff. Like a column with "wagered last 7 days" would be nice. Or even just 1 big graph that shows all MP apps with their daily profits. Or the "calculated HE" per week (currently the calculated HE is probably relatively low for investor because it got improved after the commission change - so would be nice to see it "per week".) Etc. etc. But I am currently too busy to make them hehe (and tbh I feel like other features on my site currently have higher priority :X)

[BetterBets.io]

Hi guys. As of today, the minimum bet will be 1 bit (100 satoshis). Please adjust your app to not allow bets below that, or they're going to give errors. I've repeatedly asked apps not not abuse the low bets with auto-betting, but I'm in the role of constantly playing wack-a-mole with people constantly abusing it (like today someone thinking it's a fantastic idea sending 50, 1 satoshi bets in flight at the same time) which degrades the service for people who are actually trying to bet.  Anyway, I'd like to remind everyone that 1 bit is: $0.00024614  which is an insanely low number anyway =)

Hello,

Our site is based on Satoshi's and not bits as it's more widely accepted, this is not something BetterBets agrees with unless 100 sat minimum became an industry standard. There are not many examples of dice sites in the top 10 volume casinos that disallow bets under 100 sats. Perhaps we should be excluded as we already accepted a large throttling of these bets to curb them from being spammed.

[RHavar]

Hello,

Our site is based on Satoshi's and not bits as it's more widely accepted, this is not something BetterBets agrees with unless 100 sat minimum became an industry standard. There are not many examples of dice sites in the top 10 volume casinos that disallow bets under 100 sats. Perhaps we should be excluded as we already accepted a large throttling of these bets to curb them from being spammed.

The issue with the throttling of bets, is both apps and people subvert it by betting in parallel. But for people playing manually they bet 1 satoshi to try the site, but end up with a bad experience due to the slowness. Unless I institute a hard ban against ip's that abuse it, the throttling just isn't working.  The proposed new minimum bet is: $0.00024614 which makes me find it difficult to see how that's excessive. I mean, even storing those bets would cost more than the value they generate.

I've had the same limit in bustabit (100 satoshi min bet) and it has not been a problem at all, and it's probably the 2nd active bitcoin gambling site at the moment. I vaguely recall that PRC (which seems to be #2 by all-time wagered) has a similar limit too. Not really sure about other sites, haven't tried betting such quantities before =)

[ndnh]

Hi guys. As of today, the minimum bet will be 1 bit (100 satoshis). Please adjust your app to not allow bets below that, or they're going to give errors. I've repeatedly asked apps not not abuse the low bets with auto-betting, but I'm in the role of constantly playing wack-a-mole with people constantly abusing it (like today someone thinking it's a fantastic idea sending 50, 1 satoshi bets in flight at the same time) which degrades the service for people who are actually trying to bet.  Anyway, I'd like to remind everyone that 1 bit is: $0.00024614  which is an insanely low number anyway =)

Hello,

Our site is based on Satoshi's and not bits as it's more widely accepted, this is not something BetterBets agrees with unless 100 sat minimum became an industry standard. There are not many examples of dice sites in the top 10 volume casinos that disallow bets under 100 sats. Perhaps we should be excluded as we already accepted a large throttling of these bets to curb them from being spammed.

Yeah, raising min bet to 100 satoshis is not going to have a very good effect on dice sites. Though it won't directly affect volume (because highrollers would still bet) it might cause certain players following progressive strategies to switch to other sites.

Well, on the other hand recently at least two sites (PRC, FJ) have raised minimum bet to 10 or 100 satoshis from 1. The trend is going that way but it still is 1 satoshi generally.

[BetterBets.io]

Hello,

Our site is based on Satoshi's and not bits as it's more widely accepted, this is not something BetterBets agrees with unless 100 sat minimum became an industry standard. There are not many examples of dice sites in the top 10 volume casinos that disallow bets under 100 sats. Perhaps we should be excluded as we already accepted a large throttling of these bets to curb them from being spammed.

The issue with the throttling of bets, is both apps and people subvert it by betting in parallel. But for people playing manually they bet 1 satoshi to try the site, but end up with a bad experience due to the slowness. Unless I institute a hard ban against ip's that abuse it, the throttling just isn't working.  The proposed new minimum bet is: $0.00024614 which makes me find it difficult to see how that's excessive. I mean, even storing those bets would cost more than the value they generate.

I've had the same limit in bustabit (100 satoshi min bet) and it has not been a problem at all, and it's probably the 2nd active bitcoin gambling site at the moment. I vaguely recall that PRC (which seems to be #2 by all-time wagered) has a similar limit too. Not really sure about other sites, haven't tried betting such quantities before =)

Dice and bustabit are very different though in terms of how a player strategizes for the most part. We have players that start at 1 satoshi and top out over 0.05 BTC during some dice strategies. Essentially by eliminating bets under 100 sats those players will move elsewhere and let's be honest I am losing nearly 80% volume over the past 3 weeks and if this trend continues by deterring players then what will the outcome be in the end game? Primedice has a monopoly over the bitcoin gaming market right now, do we give them even more of an edge or allow players of all types to be welcome here? I for one know our site is superb but by placing restrictions we essentially are allowing competition more edge on an already limited market. We offer players a weekly cut of our income (20%) another 15% in affiliates and yet still they are playing elsewhere despite offering them every +ev advantage we can afford without being negative. I think this move is unwise even if these low betting players do not amount to much income, perhaps they will be the ones spreading the word.

[JackpotRacer]

Dice and bustabit are very different though in terms of how a player strategizes for the most part. We have players that start at 1 satoshi and top out over 0.05 BTC during some dice strategies. Essentially by eliminating bets under 100 sats those players will move elsewhere and let's be honest I am losing nearly 80% volume over the past 3 weeks and if this trend continues by deterring players then what will the outcome be in the end game? Primedice has a monopoly over the bitcoin gaming market right now, do we give them even more of an edge or allow players of all types to be welcome here? I for one know our site is superb but by placing restrictions we essentially are allowing competition more edge on an already limited market. We offer players a weekly cut of our income (20%) another 15% in affiliates and yet still they are playing elsewhere despite offering them every +ev advantage we can afford without being negative. I think this move is unwise even if these low betting players do not amount to much income, perhaps they will be the ones spreading the word.

hey betterbets guys

I fully understand your concerns and admit (with great pleasure) that your app is the flagship of MP apps.

as you are saying -I am losing nearly 80% volume over the past 3 weeks - wouldn't this be a reason for a discussion ( not here ) because you are not the only app with the problem of low volume problems.
I really would be interested in your opinion about the reason of this downtrend of volume.

best of luck