MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet

[BetterBets.io]

We will consider the private bankroll of small bets as you stated as well. This is not ideal for attracting smaller bankroll players regardless

Why not? Players don't care which bankroll they're playing against so long as they can make the bets they want to make.

I know pokercoin.casino is going with a split-bankroll, so they can support dust bets (and get the money from it) and only forward us the larger bets. It's probably quite an elegant solution on this issue.

One problem I can see with it is that the server seed is going to be different for the two bankrolls isn't it?

You're going to have to present the player with two different seed hashes, one for if they bet to win over a threshold and the other for under it. Gamblers can be a suspicious lot, and having two different seeds, one for big bets and one for small could turn them off.

You answered the why not in your second response, 2 different seeds which makes it not ideal. RHavar agreed to hold off though on this so it is currently a non issue. As you probably can tell I was not fighting for casino income but rather inclusion of small bankroll players who only have satoshi's to bet.

When/if it's implemented, are you planning to have your own investment bankroll players can invest in (for the micro bets)?

That could be a possibility but I'd have to discuss this internally with the BetterBets team to see what works out best for everyone, great question though.

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[RHavar]

You're going to have to present the player with two different seed hashes, one for if they bet to win over a threshold and the other for under it. Gamblers can be a suspicious lot, and having two different seeds, one for big bets and one for small could turn them off.

Yeah, I don't see a way around that. But I'm not sure most players will care that much. The educated ones can still easily follow along (and likely aren't betting dust anyway, so it doesn't affect them).

But then again, I haven't been able to get through to most developers to properly use the provably fair, verify it and expose it  (which is strongly in my interests, as it removes doubts). I think 6 months later, probably 95% of volume are going through casinos that don't even bother to randomize the client seed ( even though I've repeatedly shared a gist on how to do it: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb ), let alone doing more advanced verification or saving the client-seed and hash to reuse if there's an error.  So if developers don't care (even with prodding), I have trouble imagining users do.

[hua_hui]

i think it is still ok to have 2 different bankroll. the players can still get to choose what bets they want and the algorithm is still fixed so there should not be much of a big diff with other sites. maybe only the max payout is diff.

[pokerowned]

You're going to have to present the player with two different seed hashes, one for if they bet to win over a threshold and the other for under it. Gamblers can be a suspicious lot, and having two different seeds, one for big bets and one for small could turn them off.

Yeah, I don't see a way around that. But I'm not sure most players will care that much. The educated ones can still easily follow along (and likely aren't betting dust anyway, so it doesn't affect them).

But then again, I haven't been able to get through to most developers to properly use the provably fair, verify it and expose it  (which is strongly in my interests, as it removes doubts). I think 6 months later, probably 95% of volume are going through casinos that don't even bother to randomize the client seed ( even though I've repeatedly shared a gist on how to do it: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb ), let alone doing more advanced verification or saving the client-seed and hash to reuse if there's an error.  So if developers don't care (even with prodding), I have trouble imagining users do.

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

[RHavar]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

[pokerowned]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

[jonte]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

I have never understood the point of "prerolling". Can someone explain this phenomena? Is it just something people do to give them a false sense of security that the same result won't happen twice in a row? Just another example of gambler's fallacy I supppose.

[RHavar]

I have never understood the point of "prerolling". Can someone explain this phenomena? Is it just something people do to give them a false sense of security that the same result won't happen twice in a row? Just another example of gambler's fallacy I supppose.

Yeah, it has no impact at all. The main reason people like it, seems to be so they can accumulate huge loss streaks, without actually losing much. But as you spotted, it's just the gambler fallcy. If you have a 50% chance of winning, it's still a 50% chance of winning even if you pre-rolled a 30 loss streak.

But in general, casinos do well by encouraging superstitious behavior (Some physical casinos, really take it to the extreme actually. Like put easter-eggs in their games, and show misleading stats on overhead screens).

[ranlo]

You're going to have to present the player with two different seed hashes, one for if they bet to win over a threshold and the other for under it. Gamblers can be a suspicious lot, and having two different seeds, one for big bets and one for small could turn them off.

Yeah, I don't see a way around that. But I'm not sure most players will care that much. The educated ones can still easily follow along (and likely aren't betting dust anyway, so it doesn't affect them).

But then again, I haven't been able to get through to most developers to properly use the provably fair, verify it and expose it  (which is strongly in my interests, as it removes doubts). I think 6 months later, probably 95% of volume are going through casinos that don't even bother to randomize the client seed ( even though I've repeatedly shared a gist on how to do it: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb ), let alone doing more advanced verification or saving the client-seed and hash to reuse if there's an error.  So if developers don't care (even with prodding), I have trouble imagining users do.

I want to say that I personally see no issues with a split seed. As you said, it can still be verified, so it's really not a big deal to me. And I doubt most people even look at the verification -- just knowing you can gives that sense of safety.

[BTCevo]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

People use that 1 satoshi just to make some loss. After they make huge loss there, they think they will start winning but that is depends on your luck too. I ever tried that but seems that is not working for me

[ranlo]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

People use that 1 satoshi just to make some loss. After they make huge loss there, they think they will start winning but that is depends on your luck too. I ever tried that but seems that is not working for me

Of course it doesn't work. Your chance of winning a bet is the same no matter what happened prior. 10000 losses in a row doesn't give a better chance of a win. It's all the same.

[dooglus]

So if developers don't care (even with prodding), I have trouble imagining users do.

Most players don't care, and those who do mostly only seem to care in a very particular way - after a big loss they like to be able to verify that the loss was fair. (If you win, you don't care whether the bets were fair or not...)

I can easily imagine a player not looking at the provably fair system until after they lose a big bet, and only then discovering that if they had bet small on that roll that they would have won.

Recently I had a gambler who was quite unset that his rolls were "incredibly unlikely". He understood how the provably fair system works, understood that his rolls were all predetermined, that the results are independent of the stake, etc. But still couldn't get over the feeling that something was wrong. It took a while for him to get over his loss and realise that he had simply been unlucky. I think having two different sets of seeds depending on the stake opens an extra avenue for (invalid) conspiracy theories.

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

He's talking about disallowing bets of tiny fractions of a penny. Bets much smaller than the average faucet payment. It's nothing about what you can afford.

I have never understood the point of "prerolling". Can someone explain this phenomena? Is it just something people do to give them a false sense of security that the same result won't happen twice in a row? Just another example of gambler's fallacy I supppose.

Did you ever hear the joke that you should always take a bomb with you when you fly, because there are never two bombs on the same plane?

Prerolling is the same as that: it's very unlikely that you'll see two losing 98% chance bets in a row, so bet dust until you lose one of them, then bet big because you won't see two in a row.

ie. it's a logical fallacy.

[shulio]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

People use that 1 satoshi just to make some loss. After they make huge loss there, they think they will start winning but that is depends on your luck too. I ever tried that but seems that is not working for me

Of course it doesn't work. Your chance of winning a bet is the same no matter what happened prior. 10000 losses in a row doesn't give a better chance of a win. It's all the same.

but sometimes it will change your luck. This is what I heard most from people playing dice but there is also never happened to me, unless later when I bet I use this strategy and win a lot I will share it here 

[yahoo62278]

I think the recaptcha system is broken. Been trying to login from mobile and it will not verify. Entered the correct street signs many times then did the audio test and none will verify

[Buziss]

I think the recaptcha system is broken. Been trying to login from mobile and it will not verify. Entered the correct street signs many times then did the audio test and none will verify

I have no problem with the captcha though I am using my PC but not on mobile. BTW, it is nice to see the investor profit going back up.

[yahoo62278]

Finally got it to work on the audio. Not sure why its not accepting when you click the pictures though

[Altcoin4life]

Investors should be happy nearly 100 btc profit. Happy = silent investors lol.

[ranlo]

nice to see a guy calling players who cannot afford big bets uneducated. im sure that will bring members flocking to play. in all seriousness you really shouldnt act as if small bettors dont matter. its not their faults they cannot afford 2btc bets. little people matter too is all im saying

That's not what I meant at all. And for the record, I'm also not talking about 2 BTC, I'm talking a 2 millions time less, or $0.000242895

And the limit isn't even harmful to small players. In fact, I've seen several players who have been playing **MONTHS** without making a single deposit, and without ever betting less than 1 bit, all from the faucet. This is a behavior I have no problems with, nor do I even have a problem with someone betting a single satoshi. But someone who claims the faucet, then autobets (an average of) 20,000 bets isn't a use-case I particularly want to support, nor do I think it's really gambling.

that i can agree with. 1 sat bets arent gambling but some people do use 1 sat bets in the big hitter strategies and others like to preroll 0 sat bets or 1 sat bets before doing a huge roll. i wouldnt cut those kinda bets out completely

People use that 1 satoshi just to make some loss. After they make huge loss there, they think they will start winning but that is depends on your luck too. I ever tried that but seems that is not working for me

Of course it doesn't work. Your chance of winning a bet is the same no matter what happened prior. 10000 losses in a row doesn't give a better chance of a win. It's all the same.

but sometimes it will change your luck. This is what I heard most from people playing dice but there is also never happened to me, unless later when I bet I use this strategy and win a lot I will share it here 

That's how the way it works. This is like saying "write down either an A or a B 5 times on a piece of paper however you want. I'll then guess whether each one is an A or a B. But to increase my luck, I'll only guess one per year." It doesn't change the results. It can't change them. They're already known.

[jonte]

Wow, taking big hits to my investment from some lucky high-roller. Let's hope his luck runs out before my bankroll does, haha.

Edit: God damn it, this always happens to me. I divest all when I see my investment plummeting and as soon as I divest, the investor profit goes almost all the way back to where it was. Lost 10 days worth of investment in 10 minutes.

[RHavar]

Edit: God damn it, this always happens to me. I divest all when I see my investment plummeting and as soon as I divest, the investor profit goes almost all the way back to where it was. Lost 10 days worth of investment in 10 minutes.

I know there's some investors (like cowbay) who wait until a they see investor profit go down, then invest, and divest when it goes up again.

But all in all, I'm not convinced you will outperform just putting money in (but only as much as you can afford losing!) and forgetting about it for a few months. And for added benefit, help promote some of the MP casinos . For instance, had you put money in at the earlier investment opportunity, you'd now be currently sitting on a 36% profit. I'm not sure if that's worth the risks or not, but hey, it's better than having lost money =)