ISIS impregnates 9-year-old girl

[Lethn]

No one is more pissed off about these guys than the Kurds, you look at the interviews the media has with them and independent journalists and they hate ISIS with a passion one was saying "They aren't human, they're monsters" because of how they tricked this guys daughter and messed around with them when they were trying to escape ISIS controlled territory.

Kurds are the most effective fighting force right now against the ISIS. However, the NATO is against giving any sort of political or technical support to them, due to the fierce opposition from Turkey.

Yep, I know all about the history, as I said, the Kurds have a bone to pick with ISIS over the Ottomon Empire of which Turkey is essentially the remnants of, in regards to the PKK as well they have imprisoned their leader too so that's naturally got a lot of people riled.

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[ahmedjadoon]

You just did it in the same fucking line again!

"The verse you quoted says they have equal rights in husband-wife issue but men have higher decree than woman."

Oh and great, yeah, forcing women to wait 3 months to divorce their husband and if they have a child they're supposed to tell everyone about it, gee wiz, that sound really tolerant and equal.

Also, comparing religion to Bitcoin is bullshit, since Bitcoin is simply maths, I also can't fathom how you believe that anything in these books is 'open' to interpretation, it just shows that you're being dishonest and picking and choosing things you either agree with or disagree with to legitimise religion.

This higher decree refers to Patriarchal society and it's proven to be better than matriarchal society. At the same time Islam guarantees equal rights so I don't see any problem there.
This is evident from Islam giving inheritance and all other rights to women 1400 years back while Europe/Christendom denying inheritance rights to women until last couple centuries.
Islam is credited to give complete rights to women and that too in an ancient male-dominated society of savages who used to bury infant girls alive.

[ahmedjadoon]

I undertand. We(in general)  both may not be able to convince each other.

Yes, a man can have a maximum of four wives. There are strict rules if one man marry more than one wife.

I will give you a simple answer for that. Milk four types of animals, say goat, cow, camel and donkey. Pour them in a pot/bucket/flask and mix them. Can you now identify which is from which? It is the same with having babies. If you have four husbands, it won't be easy to who is child's father? But this is not the case for a man.

What?  

How is that related to inequality in Islam where a man is allowed to have four wives at one time and woman are not?

OMG so you meant if a women had four husband it won't be easy to tell who was the father of the child?? That's your argument for the in-equality?? This is absurd.

(Oh and btw there is a thing called DNA test for that.)

I explained this at another forum sometime ago.I hope you understand. Islam doesn't encourage polygamy nonetheless it's allowed under certain conditions. Even if we consider that DNA test is available and accepted in all places(which is not the case third world countries have less than 50% literacy rate) there are many other complications for Polyandry one of them explained below.  

As you have read Quran twice you should know that Polygamy is allowed on the principle that you treat your spouses equally. Quran says "If you can't treat them equally marry only one".

Now let us imagine a situation that a girl marriages multiple husband.
Suppose HK is a girl that marries four males A, B, C and D.
Now she has to treat all of them equally. Now keep this in mind that Islam strictly prohibits extramarital relationships and homos.

Now HK got to treat them equally. They all want to have their babies. They'll have to have babies with you as they are married with you.
You can't have all their babies at the same time. There it goes you can't treat them equally. If you decide to have baby with one others will have to wait wait for their turn.

Let's say they decide to do this and wait for their respective turns.
"A" conceives you first. Then its B's turn.
Now you'll have two choices to make it work while you are trying to conceive with B:
1. First one is simple Other 3 use condom while they do you and only B does it without condom.
Since condoms doesn't work all the time. Its possible that A breaks it while doing you so again its his baby and other 3's baby delayed by another year. (Abortions are strictly disallowed is Islam).
Again where the fuck is equality?

2. Second choice is other three wait while you are trying to conceive with B and don't do you during this time. But you know it can take days and sometimes months to get pregnant.
What will the other three do while you are trying? Suck their dicks?
Since they can't have extra marital relationships neither homo what is the purpose of marriage if they have to wait months to get sex.

^^^ That's why polygamy doesn't work for women and its not allowed in Islam. Islam totally makes sense.
I hope you understand.

http://thebot.net/threads/a-non-muslim-on-a-islamic-country.304541/page-22#post-3272988

[bryant.coleman]

Yep, I know all about the history, as I said, the Kurds have a bone to pick with ISIS over the Ottomon Empire of which Turkey is essentially the remnants of, in regards to the PKK as well they have imprisoned their leader too so that's naturally got a lot of people riled.

PKK was formed after the Turkish government banned the usage of Kurdish language in public places. These sort of measures are childish. Look at what is happening in Eastern Ukraine. They banned the Russian language in a country where 80% of the population uses it as a home language. The result: tens of thousands of sq.km of land lost to the rebels, along with the largest coal fields and industrial zones.

[ahmedjadoon]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.
Also if you read her biography you'll know she was an accomplished women and served Islam for decades after Prophet's death.
And also feminism is being discussed so I'll share this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel .She commanded thousands of Muslims on battlefield.

[bryant.coleman]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

[ahmedjadoon]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

I suggest you read Aisha's journals and narrations. She always praised and followed Prophet's teachings throughout her life till she died at the age of 64.
If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

[twister]

I undertand. We(in general)  both may not be able to convince each other.

Yes, a man can have a maximum of four wives. There are strict rules if one man marry more than one wife.

I will give you a simple answer for that. Milk four types of animals, say goat, cow, camel and donkey. Pour them in a pot/bucket/flask and mix them. Can you now identify which is from which? It is the same with having babies. If you have four husbands, it won't be easy to who is child's father? But this is not the case for a man.

What?  

How is that related to inequality in Islam where a man is allowed to have four wives at one time and woman are not?

OMG so you meant if a women had four husband it won't be easy to tell who was the father of the child?? That's your argument for the in-equality?? This is absurd.

(Oh and btw there is a thing called DNA test for that.)

I explained this at another forum sometime ago.I hope you understand. Islam doesn't encourage polygamy nonetheless it's allowed under certain conditions. Even if we consider that DNA test is available and accepted in all places(which is not the case third world countries have less than 50% literacy rate) there are many other complications for Polyandry one of them explained below.  

As you have read Quran twice you should know that Polygamy is allowed on the principle that you treat your spouses equally. Quran says "If you can't treat them equally marry only one".

Now let us imagine a situation that a girl marriages multiple husband.
Suppose HK is a girl that marries four males A, B, C and D.
Now she has to treat all of them equally. Now keep this in mind that Islam strictly prohibits extramarital relationships and homos.

Now HK got to treat them equally. They all want to have their babies. They'll have to have babies with you as they are married with you.
You can't have all their babies at the same time. There it goes you can't treat them equally. If you decide to have baby with one others will have to wait wait for their turn.

Let's say they decide to do this and wait for their respective turns.
"A" conceives you first. Then its B's turn.
Now you'll have two choices to make it work while you are trying to conceive with B:
1. First one is simple Other 3 use condom while they do you and only B does it without condom.
Since condoms doesn't work all the time. Its possible that A breaks it while doing you so again its his baby and other 3's baby delayed by another year. (Abortions are strictly disallowed is Islam).
Again where the fuck is equality?

2. Second choice is other three wait while you are trying to conceive with B and don't do you during this time. But you know it can take days and sometimes months to get pregnant.
What will the other three do while you are trying? Suck their dicks?
Since they can't have extra marital relationships neither homo what is the purpose of marriage if they have to wait months to get sex.

^^^ That's why polygamy doesn't work for women and its not allowed in Islam. Islam totally makes sense.
I hope you understand.

http://thebot.net/threads/a-non-muslim-on-a-islamic-country.304541/page-22#post-3272988

All this doesn't proves anything.

The women and men who are practicing Islam, their right should be the same.

If a woman is married to 4 husbands, then she will choose who she wants to fuck/suck and make kids with.

You keep saying it makes sense but it doesn't. But you're blinded by your faith, so you can't see pass it.

And about AISHA, doesn't matter if you say she was matured or she was happy. She was a kid and it was wrong. If you had a daughter, would allow her to get married at the age of 9 and let her be happy with an old guy?

[bryant.coleman]

If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She might have been happy with her married life. But that doesn't mean that it is legal to marry off kids at the age of 9. Until a girl is 18 years of age, and thereby attaining legal majority, she should not be allowed to marry. Whether she wishes to marry before that age or not is irrelevant here.

[ahmedjadoon]

If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She might have been happy with her married life. But that doesn't mean that it is legal to marry off kids at the age of 9. Until a girl is 18 years of age, and thereby attaining legal majority, she should not be allowed to marry. Whether she wishes to marry before that age or not is irrelevant here.

It was not considered "illegal" at that time and it was socially accepted. Even the worst critics of Prophet didn't bring this up. It was first pointed out in early 20th century.

[ahmedjadoon]

If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She might have been happy with her married life. But that doesn't mean that it is legal to marry off kids at the age of 9. Until a girl is 18 years of age, and thereby attaining legal majority, she should not be allowed to marry. Whether she wishes to marry before that age or not is irrelevant here.

Islam obligates it followers to obey law. But why do westerners fuck like animals before 18? I understand that fornication is considered normal in west but it's worst than marrying earlier as there is risk of unwanted pregnancy which follows abortions or illegitimate children. 
But it's hard to explain such ethics to westerners.

[Sithara007]

All this doesn't proves anything.

The women and men who are practicing Islam, their right should be the same.

If a woman is married to 4 husbands, then she will choose who she wants to fuck/suck and make kids with.

You keep saying it makes sense but it doesn't. But you're blinded by your faith, so you can't see pass it.

And about AISHA, doesn't matter if you say she was matured or she was happy. She was a kid and it was wrong. If you had a daughter, would allow her to get married at the age of 9 and let her be happy with an old guy?



[/quote]



I totally agree with you dear. I don't understand how can be people so cruel to small kids. They can't even imagine the pain of the young girl she might be going through at this very moment when we are talking all nonsense about her.

[Light]

It was not considered "illegal" at that time and it was socially accepted. Even the worst critics of Prophet didn't bring this up. It was first pointed out in early 20th century.

Legality isn't the big deal here - it's the ethics and morality that are lacking and the herd mentality. No one dares to stand up for fear of retribution and no change is instilled. But yeah - it's easy to sit here and judge with us in a society which actually got to the point where we can talk about morality openly.

Religion isn't to be blamed. The reality is that some people are just shit and have no moral compass or ability to think for themselves or the courage to stand up for what they believe. Hence these atrocities occur.

[Netpyder]

Another noble deed in the name of the God by the religion of Peace.

Hope they burn in hell, these monsters.

(Where's Ironman when you need him the most)

excuse me but this is disrespectful to blame the wrong doing of a certain people based upon their religion. there are so many sexual assaults and child transactions going on in the USA and you are looking over the border to find wrong doings and say its done as per their religion.

just another hate speech.. again

[Pentax]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

I suggest you read Aisha's journals and narrations. She always praised and followed Prophet's teachings throughout her life till she died at the age of 64.
If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She was 9.  Even children that are being captured by ISIS now, upon release, in some cases side with them as they have been indoctrinated.  It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

What choice did this girl have but to serve and follow.  It was all she knew.  Besides that, had she spoken out if she had an issue what would have been the consequence?   That is a serious question, what would her fate have been if she'd just decided she wanted out?  Was that even an option and what would have befallen her if she had chosen that route?

[Netpyder]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

I suggest you read Aisha's journals and narrations. She always praised and followed Prophet's teachings throughout her life till she died at the age of 64.
If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She was 9.  Even children that are being captured by ISIS now, upon release, in some cases side with them as they have been indoctrinated.  It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

What choice did this girl have but to serve and follow.  It was all she knew.  Besides that, had she spoken out if she had an issue what would have been the consequence?   That is a serious question, what would her fate have been if she'd just decided she wanted out?  Was that even an option and what would have befallen her if she had chosen that route?

you are taking the wrong doing of a certain number of people and blaming their religion?

is that correct?

what is your religion may i know?

[jaysabi]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

I suggest you read Aisha's journals and narrations. She always praised and followed Prophet's teachings throughout her life till she died at the age of 64.
If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She was 9.  Even children that are being captured by ISIS now, upon release, in some cases side with them as they have been indoctrinated.  It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

What choice did this girl have but to serve and follow.  It was all she knew.  Besides that, had she spoken out if she had an issue what would have been the consequence?   That is a serious question, what would her fate have been if she'd just decided she wanted out?  Was that even an option and what would have befallen her if she had chosen that route?

you are taking the wrong doing of a certain number of people and blaming their religion?

is that correct?

what is your religion may i know?

When in response to something, someone says Mohammad married a 9 year old girl as a religious justification, isn't that cause to blame the religion?

[Pentax]

It's OK, Muhammad himself had sex with 9 year old girl.

She was mature at the time of consummation and married with consent so why do think it's wrong? Women in hotter climates attain puberty earlier.

WTF is wrong with you? How can a 9-year old kid attain "maturity" to engage in sexual relationships? I expected you to counter his argument by saying that there is no evidence to prove that she was 9-year old at the time of marriage. Disappointing.

I suggest you read Aisha's journals and narrations. She always praised and followed Prophet's teachings throughout her life till she died at the age of 64.
If she never mentioned a single issue with her marriage throughout her life and was most happily married then I don't see what's the problem with you.

She was 9.  Even children that are being captured by ISIS now, upon release, in some cases side with them as they have been indoctrinated.  It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

What choice did this girl have but to serve and follow.  It was all she knew.  Besides that, had she spoken out if she had an issue what would have been the consequence?   That is a serious question, what would her fate have been if she'd just decided she wanted out?  Was that even an option and what would have befallen her if she had chosen that route?

you are taking the wrong doing of a certain number of people and blaming their religion?

is that correct?

what is your religion may i know?

I don't know where you get that assumption from.  I was commenting on a specific situation.

I don't have a "religion".  while I think there is something else out there, and am not an atheist, nor an agnostic, all organized religion has shown itself to be insane.  the men/people that run them are insane and turn them into a circus where only they are right, everyone else is wrong, and all the while they are serving their own purposes and manipulating those that choose to follow them.   From Catholic priests molesting young boys to Mullahs advocating jihad, they are all evil and they are all batshit crazy.

I follow no such organization.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Response to Jayasabi:

'Aisha and prophet's Nikkah was done when 'Aisha was 7-9 years old and they started living together(consummation) when 'Aisha reached maturity, i.e., 9-12 years old. 'Aisha was mentally and physically matured. 'Aisha was very happy with marriage. If both wife and husband is okay, what's the problem? Also how can a marriage be compared to rape? Both are different.

Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: 'Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her.' 'Aisha added, 'None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could.'

Edit:

I don't know where you get that assumption from.  I was commenting on a specific situation.

I don't have a "religion".  while I think there is something else out there, and am not an atheist, nor an agnostic, all organized religion has shown itself to be insane.  the men/people that run them are insane and turn them into a circus where only they are right, everyone else is wrong, and all the while they are serving their own purposes and manipulating those that choose to follow them.   From Catholic priests molesting young boys to Mullahs advocating jihad, they are all evil and they are all batshit crazy.

I follow no such organization.

Well said. Don't blame religion for some psychos' actions.

[jaysabi]

Response to Jayasabi:

'Aisha and prophet's Nikkah was done when 'Aisha was 7-9 years old and they started living together(consummation) when 'Aisha reached maturity, i.e., 9-12 years old. 'Aisha was mentally and physically matured. 'Aisha was very happy with marriage. If both wife and husband is okay, what's the problem? Also how can a marriage be compared to rape? Both are different.

Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: 'Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her.' 'Aisha added, 'None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could.'

The problem I have with this is 1) it comes from a religious text which is very unreliable by nature of it being a religious text, and 2) it's not possible for me to conceptualize a 9-12 year-old being "mentally and physically matured" because we live in a time when 9-12 year-olds are without question not mentally and physically matured at that age. Perhaps under a very different value system and many hundreds of years ago, it was socially acceptable to marry and boff children because no one had the sense to know better, but the fact remains that we now know better, and it's not justifiable now.

In our society, we don't consider marriage and rape exclusionary. Rape is capable of taking place inside of a marriage. It has to do with consent. You can be married and not provide consent. And one aspect of consent, is the ability to give consent. And as a society, we do not consider children to be able to give consent because even when they are saying yes, they are too young to understand the emotional and psychological things they are saying yes to. These are important things in our world today that your religious books do not even consider because the concepts did not exist at the time.