[Vote] Who did 911?

[BADecker]

Of course, then there is the point of gasoline in a can. Gasoline burns somewhat easier and hotter than kerosene and diesel fuel. But if you take an ordinary "tin" can, the kind that you get your Campbells soup out of, and when it is empty, fill it half full of gasoline, and then toss in a lighted match, it burns without a lot of heat, slowly, because the oxygen can't get to the fuel fast enough to make it burn fast.

Now, don't go testing this until you know what you are doing. And don't test it in the house, because gasoline fumes can cause explosions inside.

The point is, there are lots of things to consider.

There is lots of fuel in a plane of that size. But there is, also lots of building concrete and metal to be heated up with that fuel. In addition, there is convection time (the time it takes heat to penetrate steel and concrete from the outside). In addition, one need consider the air passages to the fuel. The fuel can't burn without air.

When you look at the pictures of the people standing around the crash openings in the buildings (Twin Towers before they came down), it is highly unlikely that that there was enough heat to melt anything - that most of the fuel burned off inefficiently in the air - because the people would not have been able to stand around in the 2,000+ degrees F that it would take to crumble concrete and melt steel, especially when there isn't near enough time for convection to have occurred without roasting the people as well.

[1715180031]

1715180031

[Netpyder]

...

edit : just a little question, how do you get molten iron? from burning of office furnitures and jet fuel?

No, kerosene burns with oxygen.  And yes, burning kerosene certainly can melt iron.  In fact, one of the best amateur systems to melt iron uses waste oil, like used automotive oil.

Basically you can consider the burn of oil to be like kerosene.

Before you guys go build 911 conspiracy theories, why not study a little chemistry, physics and math?

NOW come clean on this please.   WHERE DID THE PLANES GO?

i did came to it CHECK THE LINKS BEFORE YOU TALK

[J. J. Phillips]

...

edit : just a little question, how do you get molten iron? from burning of office furnitures and jet fuel?

No, kerosene burns with oxygen.  And yes, burning kerosene certainly can melt iron.  In fact, one of the best amateur systems to melt iron uses waste oil, like used automotive oil.

Basically you can consider the burn of oil to be like kerosene.

Before you guys go build 911 conspiracy theories, why not study a little chemistry, physics and math?

NOW come clean on this please.   WHERE DID THE PLANES GO?

i did came to it CHECK THE LINKS BEFORE YOU TALK

In an effort to advance this part of the thread, I watched part of the first video. It asserted Flight 93 landed at an airport in Cleveland on the morning of 9/11. Apparently that's what Netpyder believes but for some reason Netpyder doesn't want to say it. Maybe because it's nonsense. On the other hand, I get the impression that the people who believe nonsense about 9/11 think they're the smart people because they had the intelligence to question the official story. Seems like he should own it.

Edited to add: Below Netpyder says "your avatar says everything about your thoughts and hate". Since avatars change, for the record, this is how it looked at the time:

This avatar makes Netpyder vewy, vewy sad because he wants people to believe that Muslims in general and Palestinian Muslims specifically are vewy peaceful people who had nothing what-so-ever to do with any violence. Especially not 9/11. No Muslim could do or even celebrate such a thing. Inconceivable to someone like Netpyder.

[Netpyder]

Actually, most independent investigations do find that there is evidence for involvement by a wider group beyond 'alqaeda'.

This is true. Sadly the jewish controlled Wikipedia keeps much of this evidence off the main pages such as this one. Mein hope is that someone will use Paycoin (the only coin without Zionist influence) to create an alternative to Wikipedia on which the truth can be revealed.

the most stupid way to promote a coin i have ever seen. and no i am not a jew LOL 

Shall we examine the evidence? You oppose Paycoin and deny being a jew. These are both clearly the actions of a jew.

keep your hands busy for a while, might keep you off the stupidity level

[Netpyder]

...

edit : just a little question, how do you get molten iron? from burning of office furnitures and jet fuel?

No, kerosene burns with oxygen.  And yes, burning kerosene certainly can melt iron.  In fact, one of the best amateur systems to melt iron uses waste oil, like used automotive oil.

Basically you can consider the burn of oil to be like kerosene.

Before you guys go build 911 conspiracy theories, why not study a little chemistry, physics and math?

NOW come clean on this please.   WHERE DID THE PLANES GO?

i did came to it CHECK THE LINKS BEFORE YOU TALK

In an effort to advance this part of the thread, I watched part of the first video. It asserted Flight 93 landed at an airport in Cleveland on the morning of 9/11. Apparently that's what Netpyder believes but for some reason Netpyder doesn't want to say it. Maybe because it's nonsense. On the other hand, I get the impression that the people who believe nonsense about 9/11 think they're the smart people because they had the intelligence to question the official story. Seems like he should own it.

your avatar says everything about your thoughts and hate

[Spendulus]

...

edit : just a little question, how do you get molten iron? from burning of office furnitures and jet fuel?

No, kerosene burns with oxygen.  And yes, burning kerosene certainly can melt iron.  In fact, one of the best amateur systems to melt iron uses waste oil, like used automotive oil.

Basically you can consider the burn of oil to be like kerosene.

Before you guys go build 911 conspiracy theories, why not study a little chemistry, physics and math?

NOW come clean on this please.   WHERE DID THE PLANES GO?

i did came to it CHECK THE LINKS BEFORE YOU TALK

In an effort to advance this part of the thread, I watched part of the first video. It asserted Flight 93 landed at an airport in Cleveland on the morning of 9/11. Apparently that's what Netpyder believes but for some reason Netpyder doesn't want to say it. Maybe because it's nonsense. On the other hand, I get the impression that the people who believe nonsense about 9/11 think they're the smart people because they had the intelligence to question the official story. Seems like he should own it.

Well I got some news for Netpryder, if that plane had landed at Cleveland THOUSANDS of people would have known immediately.  The 45 passengers would have had to disembark.  Where did they go? 

On line flight tracking programs were around in 2001.  Basically the whereabouts of planes in the sky is public knowledge, every second of a flight.  That includes private aircraft, with certain exceptions. 

http://flightaware.com/

[Netpyder]

...

edit : just a little question, how do you get molten iron? from burning of office furnitures and jet fuel?

No, kerosene burns with oxygen.  And yes, burning kerosene certainly can melt iron.  In fact, one of the best amateur systems to melt iron uses waste oil, like used automotive oil.

Basically you can consider the burn of oil to be like kerosene.

Before you guys go build 911 conspiracy theories, why not study a little chemistry, physics and math?

NOW come clean on this please.   WHERE DID THE PLANES GO?

i did came to it CHECK THE LINKS BEFORE YOU TALK

In an effort to advance this part of the thread, I watched part of the first video. It asserted Flight 93 landed at an airport in Cleveland on the morning of 9/11. Apparently that's what Netpyder believes but for some reason Netpyder doesn't want to say it. Maybe because it's nonsense. On the other hand, I get the impression that the people who believe nonsense about 9/11 think they're the smart people because they had the intelligence to question the official story. Seems like he should own it.

Well I got some news for Netpryder, if that plane had landed at Cleveland THOUSANDS of people would have known immediately.  The 45 passengers would have had to disembark.  Where did they go?  

On line flight tracking programs were around in 2001.  Basically the whereabouts of planes in the sky is public knowledge, every second of a flight.  That includes private aircraft, with certain exceptions.  

http://flightaware.com/

you still havent watched the links thats why your question is still standing

eidt : how come at least 7 of the 19 hijackers are still alive?

[Spendulus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=9/11_conspiracy_theories

9/11 conspiracy theories attribute the planning and execution of the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States to parties other than, or in addition to, al-Qaeda[1] or claim there was advance knowledge of the attacks among high-level government officials.[2] Government investigations and independent reviews have found no evidence for the theories.[3][4] ...

Actually, most independent investigations do find that there is evidence for involvement by a wider group beyond 'alqaeda'.

This is true. Sadly the jewish controlled Wikipedia keeps much of this evidence off the main pages such as this one. Mein hope is that someone will use Paycoin (the only coin without Zionist influence) to create an alternative to Wikipedia on which the truth can be revealed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw418zjZTU4

Here are the Islamofascists you can blame for 911.

Mohammed Atta
Abdulaziz alomari
Wail al Sheri
Waleed al Sheri
Satam al Suquami
Marwan al Shehhi
Fayez Bannihammad
Mohand al Sheri
Hamza al Ghamdi
Ahmed Al Ghamdi
Hani Hanjour
Majed Moqed
Nawef al Hazmi
Salem al Hazmi
Khalid al mindar
Ziad Jarrah
Ahmed Al Nami
Ahmed Al Haznawi
Saeed al Ghamdi

those guys right?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html



also, i am still waiting for your comments or conclusions to my links i posted in reply to the question you asked

moreover here is a funny situation,

plane crashed, nothing left, fire burnt all. ok
steel burnt, over 1000 degrees. ok
tower crashed by still, nevermind, still ok.
blackbox of the plane disintegrated. ok, first time, but ok it can happen

then comes this :

http://cdn.historycommons.org/images/events/a022_alhazmi_usaid_2050081722-15775.jpg
http://whowhatwhy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Remains-of-Ziad-Jarrahs-visa..jpg

seems like pvc plastic is way more resistant than steel and concrete. we should buil buildings out of that material. it probably with a little more research and innovation, they can stand fire no problem in a near future

So your link suggests some of the bad guys had fake passports, so what?

As for plastic, you have been proven wrong about the Aluminum debris, the Steel debris, now you want to use little pieces of paper and plastic to prove what?

Look at the pieces of debris that floated down from the sky after the space shuttle Columbia disaster.  Various odd things floated down, including one shoe. 

[gripflierGO]

Was it US Government Responsible for it?? OMG..
Just can't beleive this. Many documentary says that It Was the Higher Authorities were involve in the attacks of 911. Whoever is responsible for it but many innocent muslims had to suffer after this attack who were not at all involved in it. That's SAD.

[TECSHARE]

The main reasons I think the "false flag" theory is nonsense are:

A. A huge amount of people would need to be involved, I would say at least 50, realistically hundreds. There would be a huge risk that someone would leak some info, and I don't think the risk would warrant the benefits. If any info was released, or sold to the press, there would be a full blown US revolution.

B. If the buildings were blown up, then why involve planes at all? Why not just blow them up and say it was the terrorists? It seems to me that there would be many easier ways to create a similar situation, without such complexities.

C. Why bother with the Pentagon? The gov wouldn't gain any advantage by blowing up the pentagon, as well as the WTC. I think the reason that there wasn't much info on the Pentagon incident at the time was due to embarrassment and security protocols - ie the US didn't want to admit that a plane could crash into it, and were scared of the repercussions of releasing too much info too early.

D. As I said earlier, the vast majority of the initial evidence for a false flag op has been thoroughly debunked, it seems that the only thing the conspiracy theorists say now is "But what about Building 7??". As far as I'm concerned, it's totally plausible that the building was affected by debris which caused it to fall. Unlikely maybe, but plausible, and certainly not a key piece of evidence for any conspiracy theory.

A. You are correct in stating that a fairly large amount of people would need be involved to pull something like this off. One thing you assume though, is that they all knew what the end goal of each of the roles they were playing were. It is called compartmentalization, and it is how military secrets are kept. We know it works because we used this same strategy to keep the Manhattan project under wraps successfully. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

B. Plausible deniability, as well as scapegoating. How exactly do you explain how terrorists without domestic connections sneak enough explosives into one of the most secured buildings on Earth to blow it up? They tried in '93, it didn't work as well as planned.

C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.

D. No. Try doing some actual reading instead of relying on outdated half ass Youtube documentaries. Nothing has been debunked. There are still a lot of unanswered questions and inconsistencies about the official report. If you were right that all these theories have been debunked, why is it that many members of the original 9/11 commission report are now calling it a whitewash? Why is it that families of victims are still asking questions? Do you really think they aren't interested in the truth?

[Lauda]

A. You are correct in stating that a fairly large amount of people would need be involved to pull something like this off. One thing you assume though, is that they all knew what the end goal of each of the roles they were playing were. It is called compartmentalization, and it is how military secrets are kept. We know it works because we used this same strategy to keep the Manhattan project under wraps successfully. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

B. Plausible deniability, as well as scapegoating. How exactly do you explain how terrorists without domestic connections sneak enough explosives into one of the most secured buildings on Earth to blow it up? They tried in '93, it didn't work as well as planned.

C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.

D. No. Try doing some actual reading instead of relying on outdated half ass Youtube documentaries. Nothing has been debunked. There are still a lot of unanswered questions and inconsistencies about the official report. If you were right that all these theories have been debunked, why is it that many members of the original 9/11 commission report are now calling it a whitewash? Why is it that families of victims are still asking questions? Do you really think they aren't interested in the truth?

People who still think that the incident was caused by terrorist think inside of the box; they believe what the government and media feed them.
You can't even watch the news on the TV, read articles online without doing proper research anymore. Nothing has been debunked indeed. The USA government will just ignore this.
I still wonder how does a country with such a high defense budget overlook a big plane?

[TECSHARE]

People who still think that the incident was caused by terrorist think inside of the box; they believe what the government and media feed them.
You can't even watch the news on the TV, read articles online without doing proper research anymore. Nothing has been debunked indeed. The USA government will just ignore this.
I still wonder how does a country with such a high defense budget overlook a big plane?

Well technically it is true that terrorists did pull off the act, just a different set of terrorists with a different set of goals then publicly purported. In the end the real goal was to create terror to justify a string of illegal wars, destruction of domestic constitutional rights, massive domestic spying programs, and soon, care of local police militarized by the federal government, official federalization of the local police. All of these systems were introduced to the legislature in the 1990's, but the public wouldn't accept it. 9/11 was the "catalyzing event" that justified this sacrifice of liberty for "security". I love my country, but it is increasingly demonstrating that it is not under the rule of law, but under the rule of a handful of individuals who seek to use it as a host to perpetrate its organization's global power play of international government (such as TPP). Nationalism should never be blind, because any nation can serve as a host to this parasite, and the only way we know it is by the trail it leaves.

It is time to bring rule of law back to life. Do not tolerate or consent to the violation of your common law rights. If everyone actually practiced this stance these violations would no longer be possible long term. These people love chaos and violence. They have systems to deal with that. It is time for humanity to use their collective minds to defeat the boot that stands on society's face, or else it will remain there stomping in perpetuity on the faces of your children and your children's children.

[Netpyder]

skull & bones is implicated all the way right from the far beginning before 9/11. from poppy bush

[Salman Anjum]

I dont know who did this but im 101% sure that Muslims didn't do this....
There is another secret group who did this.....No a single muslim was involve in this attack...!!!
So stop blaming Muslims !!!

Thanks

[Spendulus]

....
C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.
....

BS.  The funds in question were "inadequately documented", according to phrasing used at the time.  They were not "missing", yet you try to use this to generate a conspiracy theory that the department had to be targeted and destroyed.

2T is eight times the total defense budget, by the way.  So this went back to the Clinton years.  And "inadequately documented" does not mean anything, it is simply one accounting standard versus another.  

Think of it this way.  A guy in the computer era complains that he can't track with the same level of detail ten years of transactions in the pre computer era.  Well, duh....

[Netpyder]

....
C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.
....

BS.  The funds in question were "inadequately documented", according to phrasing used at the time.  They were not "missing", yet you try to use this to generate a conspiracy theory that the department had to be targeted and destroyed.

2T is eight times the total defense budget, by the way.  So this went back to the Clinton years.  And "inadequately documented" does not mean anything, it is simply one accounting standard versus another.  

Think of it this way.  A guy in the computer era complains that he can't track with the same level of detail ten years of transactions in the pre computer era.  Well, duh....

quote : "according to some estimates we cannot track 2.3 Trillion dollars in transaction" - Donald Rumsfeld


edit : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-F5NKAMdFc backing my argument

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZRFvavH_vk  9/11 comissionner

[TECSHARE]

....
C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.
....

BS.  The funds in question were "inadequately documented", according to phrasing used at the time.  They were not "missing", yet you try to use this to generate a conspiracy theory that the department had to be targeted and destroyed.

2T is eight times the total defense budget, by the way.  So this went back to the Clinton years.  And "inadequately documented" does not mean anything, it is simply one accounting standard versus another.  

Think of it this way.  A guy in the computer era complains that he can't track with the same level of detail ten years of transactions in the pre computer era.  Well, duh....

You can spin the topic however you like. For you to say you know for a fact that none of that 2.3 trillion dollars took a walk would be a lie, and chances are it did, because accounting did not suddenly begin with computers. You can't just marginalize this as a handful of kooks any more, people questioning the official version of events on 9/11 are now the majority. Now you are the kook.

General  Stubblebine on 9/11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc1ql4TfCZw

[Lauda]

....
C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.
....

BS.  The funds in question were "inadequately documented", according to phrasing used at the time.  They were not "missing", yet you try to use this to generate a conspiracy theory that the department had to be targeted and destroyed.

2T is eight times the total defense budget, by the way.  So this went back to the Clinton years.  And "inadequately documented" does not mean anything, it is simply one accounting standard versus another.  

Think of it this way.  A guy in the computer era complains that he can't track with the same level of detail ten years of transactions in the pre computer era.  Well, duh....

Even if that isn't exactly true it does not matter. There are a lot of "coincidences" around 911. Coincidences that are statistically improbable.

Well technically it is true that terrorists did pull off the act, just a different set of terrorists with a different set of goals then publicly purported. In the end the real goal was to create terror to justify a string of illegal wars, destruction of domestic constitutional rights, massive domestic spying programs, and soon, care of local police militarized by the federal government, official federalization of the local police. All of these systems were introduced to the legislature in the 1990's, but the public wouldn't accept it. 9/11 was the "catalyzing event" that justified this sacrifice of liberty for "security". I love my country, but it is increasingly demonstrating that it is not under the rule of law, but under the rule of a handful of individuals who seek to use it as a host to perpetrate its organization's global power play of international government (such as TPP). Nationalism should never be blind, because any nation can serve as a host to this parasite, and the only way we know it is by the trail it leaves.

It is time to bring rule of law back to life. Do not tolerate or consent to the violation of your common law rights. If everyone actually practiced this stance these violations would no longer be possible long term. These people love chaos and violence. They have systems to deal with that. It is time for humanity to use their collective minds to defeat the boot that stands on society's face, or else it will remain there stomping in perpetuity on the faces of your children and your children's children.

It's actually hard to make a change when the majority aren't 'awake'. I agree that they've used this "terrorist" attack to justify waging wars in a lot of places.
Looks like it's easier to manipulate people than one would think.

[Spendulus]

....
C. The only wing of the Pentagon that was destroyed was the ACCOUNTING department, mind you this was one day after Donald Rumsfeld made an announcement that 2 TRILLION dollars was missing from the Pentagon defense budget. A lot of evidence showing where that money went was destroyed that day, along with all the people who knew anything about it.
....

BS.  The funds in question were "inadequately documented", according to phrasing used at the time.  They were not "missing", yet you try to use this to generate a conspiracy theory that the department had to be targeted and destroyed.

2T is eight times the total defense budget, by the way.  So this went back to the Clinton years.  And "inadequately documented" does not mean anything, it is simply one accounting standard versus another.  

Think of it this way.  A guy in the computer era complains that he can't track with the same level of detail ten years of transactions in the pre computer era.  Well, duh....

You can spin the topic however you like. For you to say you know for a fact that none of that 2.3 trillion dollars took a walk would be a lie, and chances are it did, because accounting did not suddenly begin with computers. You can't just marginalize this as a handful of kooks any more, people questioning the official version of events on 9/11 are now the majority. Now you are the kook.
...

Official version?  The question is not whether people agree with all aspects of some "official version", but something entirely different.

It is about questioning the gigantic leap you made in your thinking between a comment by Rumsfield as to level of detail in transactions, to your presenting a theory of govenrment involvement in 911 to destroy records of 2T of transactions.  That ridiculous leap is the issue here.  That dog don't hunt.

And yes, accounting down to the transaction level is a product of very cheap computer memory.

[TECSHARE]

Official version?  The question is not whether people agree with all aspects of some "official version", but something entirely different.

It is about questioning the gigantic leap you made in your thinking between a comment by Rumsfield as to level of detail in transactions, to your presenting a theory of govenrment involvement in 911 to destroy records of 2T of transactions.  That ridiculous leap is the issue here.  That dog don't hunt.

And yes, accounting down to the transaction level is a product of very cheap computer memory.

Your colloquialisms sure are slicker than snot on a doorknob! Concluding that when 2.3 trillion dollars goes unaccounted for, that some or most of it may have been stolen is not a giant leap in logic, in fact when money goes missing that is usually the first thing people look at. Clearly there were many reasons for the 9/11 attacks, but pointing out one of the potential motives does not mean that was the only reason why it was perpetrated. Your failure in logic is your own inability to critically examine the inconsistencies of the 9/11 commission report because you are too busy "debunking".