[POLL] Does EVAN DUFFIELD regret instamining DRK/DASH at 100x emission?

[toknormal]

I am very sorry you missed the launch. I am very sorry you didn't buy when the going rate was 10k for 0.25 BTC. I am very sorry you didn't buy when it was 0.0001 BTC. I am very sorry you didn't buy when it was 0.001. I am very sorry you got dropped on your head one time too many as a child. I am very sorry you're such a loser and a bitter broke ass troll with no life. Is there anything else you'd like me to apologize for?

r.o.t.f.w.l. !

Better include the green grass just for good measure.

[stonehedge]

Dash don't need to publicise the launch problems...You and various XMR supporters are doing it for them!  

@AdamWhite:  I have never said you were a Monero supporter.

You have zero credibility.

You just made me blow coffee out of my nose.  You're funny.

"You and various XMR supporters."  I was careful to seperate you from XMR supporters in that statement.  Since I took you off ignore several weeks ago I have seen you state quite clearly that you are not an XMR supporter and I phrased my statement to reflect this.


EDIT:  It didn't take me much looking back at your message history to show that you used to either hold XMR or support the project.  What changed your mind about XMR if you don't mind me asking?

[toknormal]

What changed your mind about XMR if you don't mind me asking?

I'm surprised you even need to ask.

He obviously learned from bitter experience that coins with "perfect" launches usually have nothing else to offer and end up going to zero nine times out of ten.

It just took him a bit longer with XMR since invisible blockchains sounded quite cool for a while until the words "emperor" and "clothes" sprung to mind  

[celestio]

What changed your mind about XMR if you don't mind me asking?

I'm surprised you even need to ask.

He obviously learned from bitter experience that coins with "perfect" launches usually have nothing else to offer and end up going to zero nine times out of ten.

(It just took him a bit longer with XMR since invisible blockchains sounded quite cool for a while until the words "emperor" and "clothes" sprung to mind)  

Look, the reason why there's a fuss about the instamine, particularly the core feature change, as a high coin ouput isn't nefarious(Look at bitcoin) is because it's the things like the block reward changing and such that's what everyone is getting on about, especially since those changes drastically benefitted the early instaminers.

These are decentralized, and may I put emphasis on it, DECENTRALIZED currencies. They cannot afford to have centralized screw-ups like what happened with Dash's instamine. There is no central authority that can just get rid of those instamined coins, so that makes it all the more worse. With a decentralized product, it needs to be somewhat "fair" and "credible" and such.

[kassadin]

No if he regretted it he would do something about it other than give his buddys the coin. There are ways to redeem himself but he doesn't look interested. Oh vote no and no regrets

[toknormal]

Look, the reason why there's a fuss about the instamine.....They cannot afford to have centralized screw-ups like what happened with Dash's instamine

I doubt very much that that's the reason.

I think the reason is plain and simple - that many people feel it's unjustified that a coin with Dash's stumble into existence be favoured by markets. So their problem is with the market, not with the product, its developer or followers.

Coins who's valuation is on the deck don't get this kind of attention.

It might be justified if Dash was the only cryptocurrency in existence and one in which everyone therefore had an interest, but it isn't. It's one of hundreds which are all independent of each other. The early launch period may have been unfair to a tiny handful of miners who missed their chance to mine during a few hours (a valueless coin at the time), but it wasn't to anyone else - especially not those who bought it in markets and held an asset that had huge amounts of work done on it during subsequent months.

This is not a game with rules. As you are pains to point out, it's a decentralised free market in which developers are free to tweak whatever parameters they like subject to 2 conditions:

[1] - their revisions are accepted by a majority of miners

[2] - their actions expose them to the risk of market revaluation

Those are the only "referees" and Dash is just as subject to their appraisals as every other project in this space. Emission curves are not a question of ethics (at least not for the industry) they are a question of convention, otherwise cryptocurrencies could not properly be called decentralised.

The hypocrisy of the near-hysterical 'instamine' rants is that Dash did not have the current valuation when the instamine (low difficulty + slow retarget or whatever you want to call it) occurred. The current valuation has been achieved through the hard work and innovation of many, but significantly the same person who is under perpetual criticism for the bad launch.

So there is no "centralised tinkering" that was not subject to the conditions above.

Furthermore and contrary to bitcoin's convention, Dash has a stated policy of tinkering with "everything" at an early stage to attempt to "get it right". Whether you think that policy sensible, ethical, commercial, sustainable or not, the dev is perfectly at liberty to pursue it and discover the consequences be they favourable or adverse.

[AdamWhite]

But I wonder what stopped him from relaunching the coin fairly to make things right - and this was a very big reason to relaunch.

He had already relaunched once or twice and kept impatient miners waiting, so perhaps he just wanted to get it over with.

You already know it was only relaunched once.

I do? Is that why I said "once or twice"? Usually a sane person would interpret that statement to mean that I'm not sure (I don't know or remember) which one is correct. For your sake, I hope that tells more about your agenda than your sanity.

It could have easily been relaunched a second time, especially since Evan said he would "Definitely" wait until tomorrow.

How do you know how easily anything related to coin development could be done? All that seems to come easy to you is losing your monies on shitcoins.

Keep apologizing!

I am very sorry you missed the launch. I am very sorry you didn't buy when the going rate was 10k for 0.25 BTC. I am very sorry you didn't buy when it was 0.0001 BTC. I am very sorry you didn't buy when it was 0.001. I am very sorry you got dropped on your head one time too many as a child. I am very sorry you're such a loser and a bitter broke ass troll with no life. Is there anything else you'd like me to apologize for?

Listen, you know very well it was only relaunced ONCE. You added "or twice" to muddy the water for anyone too lazy to check it out for themselves. This is the entire Dashtard strategy. Case in point, I was in the DASH thread for weeks critisizing your decision to reduce total supply from 40 million to 20 million. Not ONCE did any of you set the facts straight and confirm it was actually 80 million to 20 million. You're not interested in facts, all you do is muddy the water, sweep facts under the rug and hope eventually people will stop talking about the massive, deliberate instamine.

Great argument regarding the relaunch, it was easy for him to relaunch once, obviously it would have been incredibly difficult to relaunch a second time  

I think you've got enough on your plate apologizing for DASH, it's already a full time job for you. Keep it up with the personal insults though, your agenda is quite clear.

[generalizethis]

Look, the reason why there's a fuss about the instamine.....They cannot afford to have centralized screw-ups like what happened with Dash's instamine

I doubt very much that that's the reason.

I think the reason is plain and simple - that many people feel it's unjustified that a coin with Dash's stumble into existence be favoured by markets. So their problem is with the market, not with the product, its developer or followers.

Coins who's valuation is on the deck don't get this kind of attention.

It might be justified if Dash was the only cryptocurrency in existence and one in which everyone therefore had an interest, but it isn't. It's one of hundreds which are all independent of each other. The early launch period may have been unfair to a tiny handful of miners who missed their chance to mine during a few hours (a valueless coin at the time), but it wasn't to anyone else - especially not those who bought it in markets and held an asset that had huge amounts of work done on it during subsequent months.

This is not a game with rules. As you are pains to point out, it's a decentralised free market in which developers are free to tweak whatever parameters they like subject to 2 conditions:

[1] - their revisions are accepted by a majority of miners

[2] - their actions expose them to the risk of market revaluation

Those are the only "referees" and Dash is just as subject to their appraisals as every other project in this space. Emission curves are not a question of ethics (at least not for the industry) they are a question of convention, otherwise cryptocurrencies could not properly be called decentralised.

The hypocrisy of the near-hysterical 'instamine' rants is that Dash did not have the current valuation when the instamine (low difficulty + slow retarget or whatever you want to call it) occurred. The current valuation has been achieved through the hard work and innovation of many, but significantly the same person who is under perpetual criticism for the bad launch.

So there is no "centralised tinkering" that was not subject to the conditions above.

Furthermore and contrary to bitcoin's convention, Dash has a stated policy of tinkering with "everything" at an early stage to attempt to "get it right". Whether you think that policy sensible, ethical, commercial, sustainable or not, the dev is perfectly at liberty to pursue it and discover the consequences be they favourable or adverse.

Replying (in order) to bolded above:

Until there's an instamine permanently marked on the front page of the dash page, it would not be good for new and incoming investors to not know what they're getting into--do you have a problem with new investors knowing Dash's past?

Ever heard of paycoin?

We can make rules and the no-rules card works for your critics as well.

And we are free to criticize it and make others aware of the inherent weaknesses.

[toknormal]

Until there's an instamine permanently marked on the front page of the dash page, it would not be good for new and incoming investors to not know what they're getting into--do you have a problem with new investors knowing Dash's past?

Your concern for "incoming investors interests" is touching. I'm sure exceeds your concern for your own.

[generalizethis]

Until there's an instamine permanently marked on the front page of the dash page, it would not be good for new and incoming investors to not know what they're getting into--do you have a problem with new investors knowing Dash's past?

Your concern for "incoming investors interests" is touching. I'm sure exceeds your concern for your own.

I'm sure once they have all the facts, they'll use Monero if their main concern is privacy and decentralization. But why would you want to hide the instamine from the Dash front page? If your claim that it doesn't matter is correct, it would save you a lot of time and silence the instamine critics forever.

[celestio]

Look, the reason why there's a fuss about the instamine.....They cannot afford to have centralized screw-ups like what happened with Dash's instamine

This is not a game with rules. As you are pains to point out, it's a decentralised free market in which developers are free to tweak whatever parameters they like subject to 2 conditions:

[1] - their revisions are accepted by a majority of miners

[2] - their actions expose them to the risk of market revaluation

I was hoping you'd type that. This is why Dash's instamine is so controversial. Because we know a few things:

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

2) We do not know who controlled 51% of the hashrate at the time. But, since we know that the coin was available on linux-only, and that the developers themselves obviously were able to mine during the entire time the instamine occured, we can assume that the developers controlled a significant portion of the hashrate.

Thus, the conclusion can be that it wouldn't have mattered what anyone said, as Evan Duffield changing the block reward by himself wouldn't have required any input from anyone else if he owned 51% or more of the hashrate, which is very likely that he did along with Internetape. This is what I'm talking about by saying Dash had many centralized decisions done. Even the namechange from Darkcoin to Dash was a centralized decision done solely by Evan Duffield, to which his co-dev Vertoe quit the core team because of it.

Such centralized actions simply can't or rather, shouldn't happen in Decentralized currencies. Having those things happened means the coin is not decentralized anymore, Dash simply is centralized.

[smooth]

Until there's an instamine permanently marked on the front page of the dash page, it would not be good for new and incoming investors to not know what they're getting into--do you have a problem with new investors knowing Dash's past?

Your concern for "incoming investors interests" is touching. I'm sure exceeds your concern for your own.

I'm sure once they have all the facts, they'll use Monero if their main concern is privacy and decentralization. But why would you want to hide the instamine from the Dash front page? If your claim that it doesn't matter is correct, it would save you a lot of time and silence the instamine critics forever.

[ANN][DASH] Dash | Most Instamined Coin | Inventor of X11, DGW, Darksend and InstantX

[illodin]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

[celestio]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

For a period of time the public miner wasn't working, so the developer was the only one able to mine naturally. Look at the main thread. Also I'd have to take your statements with a grain of salt, until you provide any evidence to back them up.

[illodin]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

For a period of time the public miner wasn't working, so the developer was the only one able to mine naturally. Look at the main thread. Also I'd have to take your statements with a grain of salt, until you provide any evidence to back them up.

Yea I tried to look at the thread, and couldn't find the period of time you're talking about. Link plz.

[celestio]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

For a period of time the public miner wasn't working, so the developer was the only one able to mine naturally. Look at the main thread. Also I'd have to take your statements with a grain of salt, until you provide any evidence to back them up.

Yea I tried to look at the thread, and couldn't find the period of time you're talking about. Link plz.

Right here:

update doesn't compile:

init.cpp:745:15: error: operator '!' has no right operand

Hmmm, I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try:

git reset --hard HEAD
git pull origin master-0.8
make clean
make

Code wasn't updated, no one could compile besides mr Evan Duffield himself of course.

Also, can you show me evidence that you mined back then? Otherwise I'd have to assume that you're lying.

[illodin]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

For a period of time the public miner wasn't working, so the developer was the only one able to mine naturally. Look at the main thread. Also I'd have to take your statements with a grain of salt, until you provide any evidence to back them up.

Yea I tried to look at the thread, and couldn't find the period of time you're talking about. Link plz.

Right here:

update doesn't compile:

init.cpp:745:15: error: operator '!' has no right operand

Hmmm, I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try:

git reset --hard HEAD
git pull origin master-0.8
make clean
make

Code wasn't updated, no one could compile besides mr Evan Duffield himself of course.

Also, can you show me evidence that you mined back then? Otherwise I'd have to assume that you're lying.

Conveniently you didn't quote the next post where the guy admits it was his own fault he couldn't get it to compile:

Yeah, my bad, I botched the layover of the makefile on the update. Oh well still no blocks, must be in a bad location... Gave me something to do before bedtime...

[celestio]

1) Dash's developers were able to mine a portion of the coins unhindered as the linux wallet they posted on BCT wasn't working

You sure it wasn't working? Because I remember compiling it and mining just fine.

For a period of time the public miner wasn't working, so the developer was the only one able to mine naturally. Look at the main thread. Also I'd have to take your statements with a grain of salt, until you provide any evidence to back them up.

Yea I tried to look at the thread, and couldn't find the period of time you're talking about. Link plz.

Right here:

update doesn't compile:

init.cpp:745:15: error: operator '!' has no right operand

Hmmm, I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try:

git reset --hard HEAD
git pull origin master-0.8
make clean
make

Code wasn't updated, no one could compile besides mr Evan Duffield himself of course.

Also, can you show me evidence that you mined back then? Otherwise I'd have to assume that you're lying.

Conveniently you didn't quote the next post where the guy admits it was his own fault he couldn't get it to compile:

Yeah, my bad, I botched the layover of the makefile on the update. Oh well still no blocks, must be in a bad location... Gave me something to do before bedtime...

Notice how this was said by Evan Duffield: "Hmmm, I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try:" Furthermore he says "Oh well still no blocks", and "I botched the layover of the makefile on the update" comes after Evan's "I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try". That can be in direct response to Evan Duffield newly updating the code and having nothing to do on the user's part of not being able to compile and mine.

Also, I'm still waiting on you to show proof of you mining back then, it's convenient that you keep dodging providing any more information concerning that.

Don't try and bullshit me.

[celestio]

These are the posts I have collected of you during that time:

~/xcoin/src/xcoind does not exists?

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

wut.. no premine but you have 5k to throw? 

It would be so hard to realse a coin with compiled wallets? Oo

No but it would be hard for dev to instamine with them.

You said you compiled and mined, I'm waiting for proof.

[illodin]

Notice how this was said by Evan Duffield: "Hmmm, I didn't update that part of the code. Although, I just updated again so try:"

Perhaps he means that he didn't touch that part of the code since the previous version, so he doesn't understand why there would be error in that part. Then he proceeds saying he has uploaded a new version anyway and urges the guy to try again.

Why would the guy say "Yeah, my bad, I botched the layover of the makefile on the update" if it was Evan's fault?

Also, I'm still waiting on you to show proof of you mining back then, it's convenient that you keep dodging providing any more information concerning that.

If you want me to post proof of me mining 277 and 500 coin blocks you will just have to be disappointed as I won't be doing that, for obvious reasons.