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Author Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)  (Read 790354 times)
georgem (OP)
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December 12, 2016, 06:01:32 PM
 #5021

I honestly think SPR needs to pull away from Mr. Spread.  We could maintain SPR and Spreadcoin while unofficially calling it Widespreadcoin. This would especially be influential when getting service nodes out there.  Pasting "WideSpreadCoin" around a few of our websites wouldn't hurt. I'm very interested in contributing more to this coin, with my first area of focus being on wallet/user interaction.

All the dead links that still point to Mr. Spread's stuff will become irrelevant once we have MORE links pointing to the new stuff. (That's how google etc works)
You can call Spreadcoin whatever you like, but I want to represent the brand SPREAD.

Everything (r)evolves around SPREAD.

 Smiley

Why not create a blog, explorer, price charts or something along that line and put it on your site?
Then use the official spreadcoin links there.
This will help!

"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
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njs811
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December 12, 2016, 06:19:03 PM
 #5022

I honestly think SPR needs to pull away from Mr. Spread.  We could maintain SPR and Spreadcoin while unofficially calling it Widespreadcoin. This would especially be influential when getting service nodes out there.  Pasting "WideSpreadCoin" around a few of our websites wouldn't hurt. I'm very interested in contributing more to this coin, with my first area of focus being on wallet/user interaction.

All the dead links that still point to Mr. Spread's stuff will become irrelevant once we have MORE links pointing to the new stuff. (That's how google etc works)
You can call Spreadcoin whatever you like, but I want to represent the brand SPREAD.

Everything (r)evolves around SPREAD.

 Smiley

Why not create a blog, explorer, price charts or something along that line and put it on your site?
Then use the official spreadcoin links there.
This will help!


I will definitely look into this option and see what I can come up with. 
Bimmerhead
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December 12, 2016, 08:28:43 PM
 #5023


*Edited out nonsense*

I expect that I need another 50 hours or so to finish everything and put all the loose ends together before we can start testing it.

This could mean best case, that I will be ready in 1 week, or worst case by the end of january.


I will keep you updated about the progress in much more detail from now on!

Stay tuned!

P.S. I will update roadmap, website, etc... tomorrow!

Well there you have it folks!  A mere 50 hours away.... as of January.... 2016.  Almost one year ago we were 50 hours away.  Service nodes are imminent.

As a relative newcomer here, this is an interesting post to me. Anyone have some sort of response worth hearing?
sirazimuth
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December 13, 2016, 01:20:02 AM
 #5024


*Edited out nonsense*

I expect that I need another 50 hours or so to finish everything and put all the loose ends together before we can start testing it.

This could mean best case, that I will be ready in 1 week, or worst case by the end of january.


I will keep you updated about the progress in much more detail from now on!

Stay tuned!

P.S. I will update roadmap, website, etc... tomorrow!

Well there you have it folks!  A mere 50 hours away.... as of January.... 2016.  Almost one year ago we were 50 hours away.  Service nodes are imminent.

As a relative newcomer here, this is an interesting post to me. Anyone have some sort of response worth hearing?

I think that you will find this community is not huge on accountability.  Trying to hold the dev accountable to his own timelines in anyway will get you called a troll or fudder.  Obviously it is understandable that there might be setbacks, but the constant moving of goalposts and lack of transparency has hurt the project (losing members). 

It is obvious why no one is willing to ask any of the tough questions, as even though the title of this thread suggests "decentralize everything"...  the development of the coin is 100% centralized.  We all are subject to georgem's timeline, because our own incompetence in coding disallows us from implementing the ideas ourselves.  Georgem has made it clear he doesn't need the community in the past, content to let people come and go as they please.  We are all just along for the ride on this one, barnacles on the back of the whale so to speak.  We need the whale the whale does not need us.  Feel free to join us.  It is possible that we might swim to the moon... or sink to the inky blackness of the Mariana's Trench.  Either way, we hold onto the whale, as it remains our only hope of salvation.  Hear that georgem the hopes of dozens rest on your back!  We will not begrudge you if you fail... only if the hope you gave us was false. 

The idea is a brilliant one.  Whether implementation is possible or timely will be a different story.

                             
                                                    

Bitcoin...the future of all monetary transactions...and always will be
sugarfly
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December 13, 2016, 01:42:57 AM
Last edit: December 13, 2016, 02:06:43 AM by sugarfly
 #5025

Whether implementation is possible or timely will be a different story.

Timely?  Huh

For what exactly?

Did you impulse buy an expensive car,
and the first payment is soon due?

I hear the same faux-urgency from you that I heard during many a pump & dump.

-sf-
Bimmerhead
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December 13, 2016, 02:03:53 AM
 #5026

Whether implementation is possible or timely will be a different story.

Timely?  Huh

For what exactly?

Did you impulse buy an expensive car,
and the first payment is soon due?

I hear the same faux urgency I heard during many a pump & dump.

-sf-


You might have missed his prior post, which quoted the dev's own timeline. If you scroll up you'll see it, and if you're a real member here and not a sock puppet you'll understand what he means by timeliness.

sugarfly
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December 13, 2016, 02:23:24 AM
 #5027


You might have missed his prior post, which quoted the dev's own timeline. If you scroll up you'll see it, and if you're a real member here and not a sock puppet you'll understand what he means by timeliness.


You are this Auroraguy who recently popped up, praising "the benefits of failed ICOs",
and you lecture others about "real membership"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 Grin Grin Grin

-sf-
Bimmerhead
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December 13, 2016, 02:49:59 AM
 #5028


You might have missed his prior post, which quoted the dev's own timeline. If you scroll up you'll see it, and if you're a real member here and not a sock puppet you'll understand what he means by timeliness.


You are this Auroraguy who recently popped up, praising "the benefits of failed ICOs",
and you lecture others about "real membership"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 Grin Grin Grin

-sf-

I see you're pretty new to the forum sugarfly. Welcome to the wonderful world of crypto.


Georgem could you weigh in here... or anyone else who answer humbepirate's post?
rhinomonkey
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December 13, 2016, 03:56:36 AM
 #5029


You might have missed his prior post, which quoted the dev's own timeline. If you scroll up you'll see it, and if you're a real member here and not a sock puppet you'll understand what he means by timeliness.


You are this Auroraguy who recently popped up, praising "the benefits of failed ICOs",
and you lecture others about "real membership"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 Grin Grin Grin

-sf-

I see you're pretty new to the forum sugarfly. Welcome to the wonderful world of crypto.


Georgem could you weigh in here... or anyone else who answer humbepirate's post?

No one besides Georgem will be able to answer to discrepancies between self-imposed deadlines and delivery times. Anything else is speculation or inference.

I think that Georgem's move towards patreon and regular video updates and trial features will be his way of engaging the community in a mutually beneficial way. The project has been criticized in the past in regards to communication and transparency. However, I think that within the next few months there will be progress in that space.

just2laff
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December 13, 2016, 09:26:12 AM
 #5030

Mr Spread answered concerns by himself.  So georgem should't be able to?  Peopls' memories are very short in crypto...
njs811
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December 13, 2016, 11:02:16 AM
 #5031

Mr Spread answered concerns by himself.  So georgem should't be able to?  Peopls' memories are very short in crypto...

It's all about the quick buck. Remember that Bitcoin's dev disappeared and the community didn't' exactly have a direct plan of action.
Bimmerhead
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December 13, 2016, 12:45:53 PM
 #5032

Mr Spread answered concerns by himself.  So georgem should't be able to?  Peopls' memories are very short in crypto...

It's all about the quick buck. Remember that Bitcoin's dev disappeared and the community didn't' exactly have a direct plan of action.

I don't really recall that, and I was there at the time. But anyway, i think Satoshi had delivered on everything he said he was going to do before he disappeared and had someone in place to take over from him.
AnotherNode
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December 13, 2016, 03:35:25 PM
 #5033

Whether implementation is possible or timely will be a different story.

Timely?  Huh

For what exactly?

Did you impulse buy an expensive car,
and the first payment is soon due?

I hear the same faux-urgency from you that I heard during many a pump & dump.

-sf-


There is no 'urgency' as such, but there were some expectations that things were just around the corner, let's say 'weeks' or even 'months' away - but years away? That's what it will be in a few weeks time.

So finally here it is, the update about the current state of work regarding servicenodes and spreadcoin.

I'm happy to report that development is going very well, much better than before,
also because finally there is a very clear vision about the direction we will take with servicenodes.

Contrary to previous estimations that saw "blank servicenodes" (whatever that meant) arrive on testnet at the end of 2015,
the insights I gathered during nov/dec 2015 led me to the invention of an actually useful first service which will allow us
to build a network of servicenodes that will be valuable way beyond just the spreadcoin community.

So, instead of you further waiting for "Something something servicenodes" to arrive soon, you will now know exactly what to expect as the first basic service, namely a...

Decentralized Blockexplorer

I'll let a few Screenshots of the current wallet speak:



(the ugly welcoming screen of the old wallet has disappeared, and people are directly seeing the input field of the decentralized blockexplorer, ready for immediate use)



(As an example I show one of the top Bitcoin addresses. It works exactly as you would expect from the many hundreds of centralized blockexplorers out there)



(And one of the top Dash Addresses.)


So what does this mean?

The first fully functioning service that will be enabled through servicenodes is a distributed decentralized blockexplorer, accessible thrugh the spreadcoin wallet (and spreadcoin daemon / RPC)

People who run a servicenode can host any other coin they like on the same server and register it with the servicenode.
Any such coin will then be searchable through the decentralized blockexplorer. (If a coin isn't atleast hosted by a certain amount of servicenodes (to be determined) the coin isn't considered.)

All hosted coins need to be full node daemons, but they can run without tx-indexing and disable their wallet-functionality.
The only requirement is that those daemons create and maintain a full blockchain by themselves, on the same server.

Since anyone is allowed to host any coin they like (power to the people!), we are going to see a spread of different setups of course.
See for example this servicenode overview screen that lists all the current servicenodes that I run in my small homework right now:



(People can add completely new coins, or drop old ones, it's completely their own decision)


So how does it work?

Within every servicenode runs a tool called Universal Blockchain Analyzer (UBA).
It is capable of identifying and dissecting any blockchain (as long as it doesn't divert too much from current standards, but this can be further improved),
and creates its own optimized datastructure from all the data it gathers, for every coin that is registered with the servicenode (happens through the .conf file)

While this process happens, the UBA communicates and compares key data elements with other servicenodes in the network.

That's the job of the UBA: to convert relevant blockchain data for fast and easy distributed access thru the servicenode network.

The coin daemons themselves run without any disturbance. In fact the admin needs to start / stop them himself, the servicenodes won't interfere in any way with that procedure.
It is merely required that the servicenode daemon has read access to the blockchain folder of each coin, and nothing else!



Now a few more details about the servicenodes themselves.

Servicenodes that host full nodes and distribute derived blockchain data to the network to be used in the decentralized blockexplorer will earn a certain percentage of the mining reward (to be determined).

As has been planned for a long time, servicenodes won't require a fix collateral, instead the collateral will be determined by the free market.
An artificial competitive situation is created by only allowing a certain maximum amount of servicenodes to exist.
This limit isn't fixed either, it grows slowly over time.

As an example, in my home network I implemented a limit that is calculated with this formula: (total coinsupply) / 2000:



This means that with every 2000 coins that are mined there is one servicenode allowed.
(But 2000 is just an example, and will have to be determined in testnet. A few months ago we used 2880 to make a few interesting calculations.)

As you can see in the screenshots I currently run 9 Servicenodes on 9 computers.
Current total coinsupply in my very new fork is 19119, which divided by 2000 allows for 9 servicenodes to exist (or fewer, but not more).

As you can see each of these Servicenodes has its own idea about the collateral it wants to use, and this diversification creates yet another spread!

All Servicenodes are sorted according to the collateral they are willing to invest, from smallest to biggest. (the more the better)
In my example, the weakest Servicenode uses just over 100 SPR, and the strongest about 3000 SPR.

As seen in the last screenshot (Spread Distribution Screen) the distribution will probably most of the time look similar to a ski-jump.

Now why is the Servicenode with the smallest collateral called "weakest link"?


("weakest link")

Well, because an available seat isn't assigned to the same servicenode forever.
All seats are constantly on sale even the ones that are currently occupied (  Grin )

This means that when a newcomer arrives and he finds no empty seat, he might decide to grab one of the seats away from someone else's arse.
(but he can also come a little later when a new additional seat was created, but so will others... )

Let's imagine a few scenarios, using my example.

The 9 Servicenodes in my home network use these collaterals:

100.001
107.001
120
190.3122
335
425.1
502
1010
3000.191998


Now, imagine a newcomer arrives and wants a seat.
He could be a cheap shot and just invest 100.002, but this would be enough to "kick" the servicenode currently sitting at the weakest seat out of the race.

(BTW, "kicking" in this context merely means that the servicenode doesn't receive any rewards anymore. It does not shut down the server or any full node, or anything like that.
But what happens is that the UBA stops working, since it doesn't recognize its servicenode as valid anymore.)

What then happens, is that the newcomer becomes the new weakest link with his 100.002 collateral.

But say he would want to invest 2000 as collateral.
Now the same weakest link loses the seat, but the next 7 seats all slip down one seat, since they all must make room at the second highest seat, because that's where the 2000er is going to sit.

In this situation the servicenode that was sitting at the second lowest seat now suddenly finds itself in the weakest link position and runs the risk of losing its status next time someone appears.

And that's basically how this game will be played: a continuous switching of seats, particularly in the lower area.
If you hate this situation already, I suggest you invest lots of SPR as collateral.

Because there is a way how you can basically completely secure a seat for the foreseeable future.



This symbol indicates a servicenode that has such a high collateral, that it would require more than the current total coinsupply to kick this node 9 seats down!
Since this servicenode has a collateral of 3000 and it would require 9 newcomers to each invest MORE than these 3000, this would add up to an amount larger than all money that currently exists.

And therefor this seat can be considered truly secure.

BUT!
... since the total coinsupply continues to grow everyday (but slower and slower) even a now truly secured servicenode can easily be dropped down a few seats, the more free money is around and gets locked in servicenodes.

It is important to understand that "holding a high seat" has no benefits whatsoever, other than keeping you away as far as possible from the weakest link (the only "point of departure").

So the best place to actually be in is somewhere in the middle, as indicated by this symbol:



This symbolises the seat that represents the arithmetic mean of the sum of all money locked in servicenodes divided by amount of servicenodes.

It can be argued that this seat (and seats close to it) are very secure, and a user that keeps adding to his collateral so that he keeps being near this mean will basically never lose his reward.


....


Alright, I could go on forever, but it's getting late.

Last thing I wanted to mention for today is the actual "servicenode manage screen":



It's where you will create new servicenodes and control the ones you already run.
(ofcourse everything will also be possible through commandline)
My goal will be to make the handling of servicenodes very easy and straight forward.
I do have a few fancy ideas about this that I want to further explore.

There is much more to mention and discuss but that's for another day.
(particularly how we tie an actual logo and name to a hosted coin is interesting)

The future looks very clear now for spreadcoin.
What I just presented is what the first testnet version will look like.

By implementing this first service we are going to build the perfect playground for the further development of the servicenode network (which will see the likes of "Proof of Bitcoin Node", a decentralized searchengine and exchange, and possibly Big Data Services in some form or another. There is lots to explore and only one rule: it needs to follow the principles of "true decentralization").

And last but not least:

I expect that I need another 50 hours or so to finish everything and put all the loose ends together before we can start testing it.

This could mean best case, that I will be ready in 1 week, or worst case by the end of january.


I will keep you updated about the progress in much more detail from now on!

Stay tuned!

P.S. I will update roadmap, website, etc... tomorrow!

Not wishing to sound like a sourpuss, but it's such a great idea and opportunity for Spreadcoin, the whole crypto world actually, that it would be a shame to just let things drift into 'great ideas that never happenedom'
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December 13, 2016, 04:29:24 PM
 #5034

There is no 'urgency' as such, but there were some expectations that things were just around the corner, let's say 'weeks' or even 'months' away - but years away? That's what it will be in a few weeks time.

What "things" were just around the corner?

A very first basic testnet version?

Even if that were the case, it would have meant months/years of additional work after that anyway.

Am I not right about that?

Back then something made georgem scrap his plans and go back to the drawing board.

I would bet my shiny metal ass that it had something to do with big investors
who were pressing hard on georgem to use mr. spread's code.

Just open your eyes, the same thing is happening to this day!

I recommend you go back to january/february and read a few of the pages and draw your own conclusions.

Don't take this out of context.

-sf-
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December 13, 2016, 04:48:53 PM
 #5035

Sugarfly you seem to be really optimistic about this project and not too concerned about timelines. Are you interested in an opportunity to grab a large stake in SC at the current market price? The sell side is pretty thin, this could be a good opportunity for you.
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December 13, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
 #5036

There is no 'urgency' as such, but there were some expectations that things were just around the corner, let's say 'weeks' or even 'months' away - but years away? That's what it will be in a few weeks time.

What "things" were just around the corner?

A very first basic testnet version?

Even if that were the case, it would have meant months/years of additional work after that anyway.

Am I not right about that?

Back then something made georgem scrap his plans and go back to the drawing board.

I would bet my shiny metal ass that it had something to do with big investors
who were pressing hard on georgem to use mr. spread's code.

Just open your eyes, the same thing is happening to this day!

I recommend you go back to january/february and read a few of the pages and draw your own conclusions.

Don't take this out of context.

-sf-

The truth is the community never received a proper explanation for this; I implore you to find one.

You are right that there were some investors pressuring Georgem at one point (and perhaps still are) to release something (I don't believe that in this instance he was reusing code), but it does not logically follow that a timeline would not be met. You are speculating as to the reasons, but as I said, nobody knows and nobody will know until Georgem tells us.

In the past, I have understated my frustrations in regards to this because I recognized that there would probably be little to no response nor did I think it would be productive at the time.

As you can see though, this issue will not just disappear. You can defend Georgem with your assumptions, but it won't solve the issue at hand. I do think Georgem is signaling to the community that he will be more regular with his updates, which in my opinion is a large step in the right direction.

However, I also think some explanation as to what exactly happened would go a long way in helping the community 'rebuild'.

This isn't something that can just be whisked away.

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December 13, 2016, 04:59:44 PM
 #5037

Sugarfly you seem to be really optimistic about this project and not too concerned about timelines. Are you interested in an opportunity to grab a large stake in SC at the current market price? The sell side is pretty thin, this could be a good opportunity for you.

I'm excited about the spreadwallet.
That's what got me interested.
That's what I am here for.

besides, abbreviation is SPR not SC

-sf-

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December 13, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
 #5038

Sugarfly you seem to be really optimistic about this project and not too concerned about timelines. Are you interested in an opportunity to grab a large stake in SC at the current market price? The sell side is pretty thin, this could be a good opportunity for you.

Are you implying you're going to sell a large stack?

If so how much & at what price?  Grin

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December 13, 2016, 05:10:59 PM
 #5039

Whether implementation is possible or timely will be a different story.

Timely?  Huh

For what exactly?

Did you impulse buy an expensive car,
and the first payment is soon due?

I hear the same faux urgency I heard during many a pump & dump.

-sf-


You might have missed his prior post, which quoted the dev's own timeline. If you scroll up you'll see it, and if you're a real member here and not a sock puppet you'll understand what he means by timeliness.



U mull over his message and why he worded it the way he did, so I see u're inclined to defend his interests all the while until a reasonable concern hits the forum space and kicks u out of ur comfort zone since u will be unable to sort it out.
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December 13, 2016, 05:13:48 PM
 #5040

The truth is the community never received a proper explanation for this; I implore you to find one.
...
This isn't something that can just be whisked away.

But why now?

It looks like georgem is gaining nice momentum.
I can't wait to see more.

What's your sudden fascination with something that happened a year ago?

-sf-
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