[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[Tulkas]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

[sega01]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

Hi Tulkas!

Thank you for the numbers. While I believe that they are certainly accurate, could you see how many Bitcoins have been paid back? I have a feeling the ratio of defaulted versus repaid Bitcoins is higher than the loans, but if I'm mistaken I am fine with that.

And I understand if you cannot give out the information of those taking out loans and defaulting. We just need something in place, and I understand if it's taking a while to implement.

Perhaps as well, I really should have been using it as a microloan site. My tendency has been to put too much into a single loan. If I had done that, I may have had a better experience overall.

Thanks,
Teran

[MPOE-PR]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

77% repayment rate IS scammer heaven.

Let's do some math!

Average loan duration 1 month, average repayment rate 77%, average interest rate 5% per month.

January: start with 1000 BTC, get back 770 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 808.5 BTC
February: start with 808.5 BTC, get back 622.545 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 653.67225 BTC
March: start with 653.67225 BTC, get back 503.3276325 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 528.494014125 BTC
April: start with 528.494014125 BTC, get back 427.28741042 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 448.651780941 BTC
May: start with 448.651780941 BTC, get back 345.461871325 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 362.734964891 BTC
June: start with 362.734964891 BTC, get back 279.305922966 btc + 5% interest, for a total of 293.271219114 BTC
July: look at your 293.271219114 BTC which spells out a 70% realized loss over barely six months and think about what a retard you were.

Once the GLBSE scam mothership is out of the way, Average Forum Idiot is desperately looking for some new ways to ensure his customary BTC losses. All the while telling himself that he's oh so great and "If you know what to look for you won't get one that defaults."

Too stupid to live is the term of art.

What planet are you from, seriously? 77% repayment means 23% loss, which works out to a staggering -95.7% API if your average contract is one month (if we use a closer-to-reality 3 weeks, it's -99% API). One Bitcoin "invested" on your scamplatform today will yield something on the order of 0.01 BTC on December 21, 2013, on average. Even miner bonds are better bang for the buck.

Learn 2 math. Preferably before you purport to offer Bitcoin services.

[repentance]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

You have a default rate of almost 23% which would be devastating to most businesses.  The amount of repayments not made as a proportion of the total amount loaned may show an even worse reality if people are defaulting early in their loan cycle (as I suspect is the case).

I am absolutely stunned that you would launch without a concrete plan for recovering funds given that you're facilitating high risk loans and should have assumed a significant default rate at the outset.

[SgtSpike]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

You have a default rate of almost 23% which would be devastating to most businesses.  The amount of repayments not made as a proportion of the total amount loaned may show an even worse reality if people are defaulting early in their loan cycle (as I suspect is the case).

I am absolutely stunned that you would launch without a concrete plan for recovering funds given that you're facilitating high risk loans and should have assumed a significant default rate at the outset.

Welcome to the unregulated world of Bitcoin.  I am not stunned by anything anymore.  Without regulation to keep stupid people from doing stupid things, stupid people do stupid things.

[8668]

It is assumed that if you sign into BTCJam using TOR that the "Tor Onion" logo will show next to your loan. And that is the case, IF you sign out. Staying signed in and never signing out prevents that icon from showing.

Just one of the many flaws of this site that are clearly being abused....

[MPOE-PR]

It is assumed that if you sign into BTCJam using TOR that the "Tor Onion" logo will show next to your loan. And that is the case, IF you sign out. Staying signed in and never signing out prevents that icon from showing.

Just one of the many flaws of this site that are clearly being abused....

Sigh.

Tulkas, you retarded idiot take this piece of shit off the Internet and go back to square one.

[paraipan]

...

Tulkas, you retarded idiot take this piece of shit off the Internet and go back to square one.

Why? No need to, by changing the service TOS and specifying clearly that IDs used to verify the accounts will be released to lenders in case of a default, should be more than enough to keep it going. He can even do it now until is too late, and force users to agree when logging in, and if they don't agree give them the opportunity to terminate their accounts.

[LoweryCBS]

Tulkas,

Since the harsh minority are so vocal, I wanted to pop in and say, "Thank you" for the work you are doing with BTCJam. Keep up the efforts, and be aware that there are plenty of lenders like myself that appreciate you.

(to some of the most frothing critics among the rest of you:  Name-calling? Really? Welcome to )

[JordanL]

I would also like to give a thumbs' up to Tulkas for his work on BTCJam. Great idea, well implemented. I have had no complaints so far, and there is an obvious market for it. If it is managed well, it could become a premier BTC service.

For the people complaining about the default rate... what do you think the default rate on OTC and bitcointalk.org loans is? I don't have the numbers but I'm almost certain it would be similar. Use the same discretion when lending through BTCJam as you would here or on OTC.

[ercolinux]

BTCJam has great potential, but the defaults are a problem. And the general rules avoid the possibility of trying to get money back too

2. Late Payments
Under no circumstances should you attempt collection on a late payment yourself. In doing so you run the risk of creating a legal liability for yourself and the website cannot be hold responsible.

Lenders may not post pestering or threatening messages on any listing.

Failure to follow these policies may result in termination of membership.

So Tulkas is doing nothing to recover money (5 weeks and no words on that too), and there is no possibility to obtain data to try to recover yourself money

If you read the description of the variuos sections of the site seems that BTCJam do some check and try to ensure the security of the lenders but this is not the case at all

[8668]

BTCJam has great potential, but the defaults are a problem. And the general rules avoid the possibility of trying to get money back too

2. Late Payments
Under no circumstances should you attempt collection on a late payment yourself. In doing so you run the risk of creating a legal liability for yourself and the website cannot be hold responsible.

Lenders may not post pestering or threatening messages on any listing.

Failure to follow these policies may result in termination of membership.

So Tulkas is doing nothing to recover money (5 weeks and no words on that too), and there is no possibility to obtain data to try to recover yourself money

There's not a whole lot that CAN be done. First and foremost, its not "money". It can't be sent to collections, no agency will buy a debt in bitcoins, credit or widgets. Collection agencies buy debt for a percentage. Because there's isnt a fixed exchange of bitcoins-to-dollars no collection agency will pay anything for any bitcoin debt. There isnt anything to buy as far as the law is concerned. It's been discussed here in the past, but you aren't going to be taking anyone to court claiming they owe you USD because a make-believe exchange named after Magic The Gathering says your coins or credits are worth so-much. It just isnt happening. Sorry.
BTCJam is a great idea. I wish I could've invested more and made more than I have so far, but it is getting so unbelievably unreliable (not the site, but the users) I'll be pulling my bitcoins as quick as payment come in (IF they do)
Nothing against Tulkas, he did a good job with the site, but in the end there is NO WAY to collect bitcoins owed. It just doesnt exist yet

[Tulkas]

Unfortunately I was a little bit too optimistic on that 2 weeks forecast. We plan to use the personal information to collect the debts but we cannot simply hand it to lenders (as much as we sometimes want to do it).

I've just updated the service numbers:

loans: 312
total payments: 1463
payments late: 333
fully repaid loans: 155

We have a repayment rate of 77.23%

This doesn't look like a "scammer heaven" at all.

The listings are as good as the borrowers who make then, as far as censoring the "scammy" listings we are not sure about that.

You have a default rate of almost 23% which would be devastating to most businesses.  The amount of repayments not made as a proportion of the total amount loaned may show an even worse reality if people are defaulting early in their loan cycle (as I suspect is the case).

I am absolutely stunned that you would launch without a concrete plan for recovering funds given that you're facilitating high risk loans and should have assumed a significant default rate at the outset.

Welcome to the unregulated world of Bitcoin.  I am not stunned by anything anymore.  Without regulation to keep stupid people from doing stupid things, stupid people do stupid things.

People investing in high risk loans are having defaults, people doing good choices are having good returns.

Prosper at the beginning had a 35% default rate. This is a unregulated market and we are still figuring out the best solutions.

Please, do some research before start calling people stupid. This is how peer to peer lending sites work.

[Tulkas]

It is assumed that if you sign into BTCJam using TOR that the "Tor Onion" logo will show next to your loan. And that is the case, IF you sign out. Staying signed in and never signing out prevents that icon from showing.

Just one of the many flaws of this site that are clearly being abused....

The login expires in 6 hours.

Can you please describe the other "many flaws" that are being abused?

[8668]

It is assumed that if you sign into BTCJam using TOR that the "Tor Onion" logo will show next to your loan. And that is the case, IF you sign out. Staying signed in and never signing out prevents that icon from showing.

Just one of the many flaws of this site that are clearly being abused....

The login expires in 6 hours.

Can you please describe the other "many flaws" that are being abused?

See post #428, the complete inability to collect bitcoin "debt"

[Tulkas]

It is assumed that if you sign into BTCJam using TOR that the "Tor Onion" logo will show next to your loan. And that is the case, IF you sign out. Staying signed in and never signing out prevents that icon from showing.

Just one of the many flaws of this site that are clearly being abused....

The login expires in 6 hours.

Can you please describe the other "many flaws" that are being abused?

See post #428, the complete inability to collect bitcoin "debt"

This is not a site flaw. The site purpose is clearly stated and debt collection is a issue being addressed but was never a feature.

[Tulkas]

BTCJam has great potential, but the defaults are a problem. And the general rules avoid the possibility of trying to get money back too

2. Late Payments
Under no circumstances should you attempt collection on a late payment yourself. In doing so you run the risk of creating a legal liability for yourself and the website cannot be hold responsible.

Lenders may not post pestering or threatening messages on any listing.

Failure to follow these policies may result in termination of membership.

So Tulkas is doing nothing to recover money (5 weeks and no words on that too), and there is no possibility to obtain data to try to recover yourself money

If you read the description of the variuos sections of the site seems that BTCJam do some check and try to ensure the security of the lenders but this is not the case at all

Hello ercolinux, we are indeed trying to establish a way to collect the debts. It was only last month that the first bitcoin enterprise got bank status.

About the personal data of borrowers, it against U.S law to release that info.

[paraipan]

...

Can you please describe the other "many flaws" that are being abused?

Your inability to be authoritative with the course of this service. Give the opportunity to btcjam users to ask for your assistance in case of any issues appearing between them. You are the judge, but you still don't know it, and the only one that can tell right from wrong with your service. Make people trust you by helping them, right now they seem to be shouting for your help, and don't give cheap excuses because you will dig your own hole. Bitcoin is the wild west and you should act like it, in your "house" you're the one making the rules.

[paraipan]

...

About the personal data of borrowers, it against U.S law to release that info.

Are you in U.S.? What jurisdiction does your service adhere?

[Tulkas]

...

About the personal data of borrowers, it against U.S law to release that info.

Are you in U.S.? What jurisdiction does your service adhere?

We are in the process to move to U.S.