[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[Kanati]

but what is ya'll opinion about the news at tthe dashbord of btcjam saying:

"Please note that all the digital signatures provided on the arbitration awards are valid and as legally enforceable as paper signatures. Below the full statement from Dhami Law, the company that issues the awards: "Pursuant to the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act and Uniform Electronic Transactions Act, electronic or digital signatures are equally valid, and legally enforceable, as paper signatures. Electronic/digital signatures include images of signatures, the typed name of the signing party, electronic symbols intended to indicate the signature of the party, and encrypted keys, any of which establish the present intent to authenticate, adopt, and execute a record/document of the party.""

Unfortunately I think they are wrong  

BTCjam removed my comment, so now it can only be seen here in the screendump  

Here is a link to the law they are talking about - https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-106publ229/html/PLAW-106publ229.htm

...and here is a quote from section 103 of the same law (emphasis added..):

(b) Additional Exceptions.--The provisions of section 101 shall not apply to--
(1) court orders or notices, or official court documents (including briefs, pleadings, and other writings) required to be  executed in connection with court proceedings;

This link explains what the "electronic signature" mentioned in the above law is -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signature

Here in Europe we use the "advanced electronic signature" mentioned in the last link. It has these qualities -

1. The signatory can be uniquely identified and linked to the signature

2. The signatory must have sole control of the private key that was used to create the electronic signature

3. The signature must be capable of identifying if its accompanying data has been tampered with after the message was signed

4. In the event that the accompanying data has been changed, the signature must be invalidated

Just writing "/s/ Mickey Mouse" will not not cut the cheese  

I expect to have a new information update ready to post tomorrow.

[cynical_observer]

   It's astonishing that any lawyer would consider walking into court with nothing more than a computer-generated arbitration award bearing a /s/ before a printed name.  Judges aren't stupid.  Mr. Dhami's advice borders on malpractice.

[P M]

  It's astonishing that any lawyer would consider walking into court with nothing more than a computer-generated arbitration award bearing a /s/ before a printed name.  Judges aren't stupid.  Mr. Dhami's advice borders on malpractice.

regardless of the fact if any lawyer would or not use this....in some cases the informations given to btcjam seam not to be checked or otherwise i dont understand why some lenders got away with giving obvious fake name and/or addresses.like noone is even checking it.

[btiAndy]

  It's astonishing that any lawyer would consider walking into court with nothing more than a computer-generated arbitration award bearing a /s/ before a printed name.  Judges aren't stupid.  Mr. Dhami's advice borders on malpractice.

@Newbie... no court would accept it, what Tulkas has written is a lie.

[PT92]

Kananti, Im really really busy for the next two weeks. After these two weeks I'll try to help you wherever necessary.

[JasonXG]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

[owlcatz]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

I would avoid it like the plague. See the link in my sig for the btcjam scammer's lists/doxx. Read the last few pages or 10 of this thread as well. Invest wisely, do your homework!

[btiAndy]

  It's astonishing that any lawyer would consider walking into court with nothing more than a computer-generated arbitration award bearing a /s/ before a printed name.  Judges aren't stupid.  Mr. Dhami's advice borders on malpractice.

@Newbie... no court would accept it, what Tulkas has written is a lie.

@cynical_observer ...sorry, I meant you...not "@newbie"...was thinking and typing too fast, or maybe not thinking actually 

[P M]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

its like owlcatz wrote...invest wisely! count on some loss percentage but there still some good users. im doing quite good at kraken. but trading also has its risks. its maby a question of how dependent you want to be on people paying.

also its a question if you like the policy of btcjam....comments getting edited or cencored or delated. or how you like the support which is not the best in my opinion

[JasonXG]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

I would avoid it like the plague. See the link in my sig for the btcjam scammer's lists/doxx. Read the last few pages or 10 of this thread as well. Invest wisely, do your homework!

Thank you. I was thinking already to avoid it but wanted to make sure. How exactly do people scam you ? What should I look out for ? I though they had a system in place to prevent this sort of thing.

[Johnny00]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

I would avoid it like the plague. See the link in my sig for the btcjam scammer's lists/doxx. Read the last few pages or 10 of this thread as well. Invest wisely, do your homework!

Thank you. I was thinking already to avoid it but wanted to make sure. How exactly do people scam you ? What should I look out for ? I though they had a system in place to prevent this sort of thing.

Nothing is perfect but one can create fake identity and address and take off with your money. Bitcoin loans are mostly scam. Think of Bitcoin as gold. Just hold it

[owlcatz]

How safe is using btcjam ? Should I use it ? Is it viable and losses low ? Hopefully there will be no loss or should I just stick with being a trader on localbitcoin ?

I would avoid it like the plague. See the link in my sig for the btcjam scammer's lists/doxx. Read the last few pages or 10 of this thread as well. Invest wisely, do your homework!

Thank you. I was thinking already to avoid it but wanted to make sure. How exactly do people scam you ? What should I look out for ? I though they had a system in place to prevent this sort of thing.

Nothing is perfect but one can create fake identity and address and take off with your money. Bitcoin loans are mostly scam. Think of Bitcoin as gold. Just hold it

Yes, this is the best policy unless you are a skilled trader. 

[Kanati]

Kananti, Im really really busy for the next two weeks. After these two weeks I'll try to help you wherever necessary.

Thanks for your kind offer PT92 - if you have a legal background and live somewhere near San Francisco that would be perfect!    In the mean time there are some new developments that I would like to share with you and everyone else here.

For readers who are new to the ongoing saga of "/S/" and the Invisible Mr. Dhami you can find background information in these posts (I would include it here but it's getting to be too bloody long  ) :

Link 1.
     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112447.msg15799768#msg15799768

Link 2.
     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112447.msg15812164#msg15812164

Current status:

From link 1....

• Jam collects their fees up front when investors finance the loan, which means they have no actual alignment with investor interests if the loan is not repaid.

Status - No change.

• Jam does not post statistics about the percentage of borrower defaults on their website, which is a huge risk disclosure omission for any prospective investor (https://btcjam.com/stats).

Status - No change.

• Jam suddenly changed the rules by announcing they no longer will issue loans to American borrowers. This of course is causing a wave of defaults on existing American loans, since it removes incentive for these borrowers to repay if they no longer have a future on the platform. So far no help or compensation for investors who got screwed when BTCjam decided to pull the carpet out from under them.

Status - 2 more of my USD loans are now late .

• Jam suddenly dumped net-arb.com as their independent arbitration provider, ostensibly "to protect members from spam". The new provider, Dhami Law Firm, has no functioning website, telephone, or e-mail, leaving investors no way to independently confirm the validity of Dhami Law Firm or the arbitration awards issued by them.

Status - Mr. Dhami is still invisible, and judging from the following e-mail exchange between Tulkas and Attorney Kevin Palley it is apparently impossible for anyone except for Tulkas to contact Mr. Dhami (more on this later)...

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Kevin Palley  wrote:
Celso,
 
I am actively taking collection actions on arbitration awards from Bitcoin debts. Amongst the contacts that I am receiving are BTCjam users trying to enforce the arbitration awards issued by Sukhman Dhami.   I have been telling these users that I'd be happy to help them if Mr. Dhami would be available to authenticate his awards as net-ARB is currently doing.  I have made several attempts (email and phone) to contact Mr. Dhami to discuss that but so far have not received any response from him at all.  Several of your users have tried to contact him as well, with the same results. Many of those users have contacted your support team for assistance as well.

I have told your users that unless I can get Mr. Dhami's cooperation in this authentication process, I am not able to enforce those awards.  As a result, I'm afraid some of your users are frustrated and furious and have taken to airing their grievances in various forums on the internet - some of them are clamoring for me to take legal action on their behalf against both Mr. Dhami and BTCjam.  Keep in mind that I only have contact with a small percentage of your users but statistically that percentage can be multiplied (statistically, for every complaint one knows about there are significantly more that are not known by users who choose to take no action, including potential customers).
 
My purpose for contacting you today is to see if we can work together in resolving this issue.  I started my enforcement business in order to collect money for your investors from delinquent borrowers - not to bring lawsuits against you or Mr. Dhami. Can you secure Mr. Dhami's cooperation to authenticate his awards?
 
Alternatively, may I suggest an attempt to reconcile with net-ARB since net-ARB is able to provide what is necessary to make these awards effective.  Fences can be mended.  Whatever happened in the past does not affect the issue that many of your customers are very unhappy with the present situation.  If you would consider a treaty with net-ARB I would be happy to act as intermediary to approach net-ARB along these same lines. It will take some tact and diplomacy to approach net-ARB on my part, however, the users should be the ultimate winners as they should continue to use your site if they see results with defaulted loans.
 
Whatever your decision, bear in mind that doing nothing about this matter is not in your best interest. I am sure that if we work together, a solution can be found.
 
I appreciate your consideration.  
 
Kevin Palley
for Kevin Palley, PSC
329 W. 5th St.
Lexington, KY  40508-3708
(859) 268-1110
Attorney at Law

------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Celso Pitta
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 4:39 PM
To: Kevin Palley
Subject: Re: Arbitration Award Verifications
 
Kevin,
 
We are in no obligation and made no promise to anyone that those awards could be used by you. You, on the contrary, continues to make a profit on our user database that was obtained unlawfully from net-ARB, I strongly advise you to stop.

Celso Pitta
BTCJAM - P2P Bitcoin Lending
https://btcjam.com

------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Kevin Palley wrote:

Celso,
 
Your database is not being used – I am only contacting those who contacted me. Only.
 
The issue is not whether I can use the arbitration awards issued by Mr. Dhami, but whether the awards can be enforced without verification. I believe that they cannot. Therefore, I believe that those arbitration awards have no value without authentication.
 
I take it then that you are not interested in trying to make Mr. Dhami’s awards enforceable where he is not authenticating them or in using net-ARB again (as they know how to authenticate the awards to make them enforceable).
 
I do appreciate your prompt response.
 
Kevin Palley
for Kevin Palley, PSC
329 W. 5th St.
Lexington, KY  40508-3708
(859) 268-1110
Attorney at Law

------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Celso Pitta
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 6:27 PM

To: Kevin Palley
Subject: Re: Arbitration Award Verifications
 
I'm not in any way saying that I do not want the arbitrations to be enforced. Regarding Mr. Dhami arbitrations we have no association with him, please direct your questions to him.
 
Regarding the database, all users you obtained by using our stolen database, even after being notified by us, were obtained illegally. We have extensive documentation and even emails from net-ARB stating they used the API they developed to give the emails to you.

Celso Pitta
BTCJAM - P2P Bitcoin Lending
https://btcjam.com

------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Kevin Palley  wrote:
Although Mr. Dhami is a separate entity from you, BTCjam continues to use his services and refer cases to him. Therefore, there is some responsibility in making sure that what he does is effective.
 
I assume a call from you would resolve the matter immediately; as it appears you are not interested in doing so, I appreciate your response.
 
Kevin Palley
for Kevin Palley, PSC
329 W. 5th St.
Lexington, KY  40508-3708
(859) 268-1110
Attorney at Law

------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Celso Pitta
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 7:23 PM
To: Kevin Palley
Subject: Re: Arbitration Award Verifications

I just let him know about your complaint. Please direct any future questions regarding Mr. Dhami arbitration service to Mr. Dhami. As you know we are separate entities and under the arbitration laws we cannot interfere on the process.

Celso Pitta
BTCJAM - P2P Bitcoin Lending
https://btcjam.com

------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Palley
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:36 AM
To: 'Celso Pitta'
Subject: RE: Arbitration Award Verifications

Do you have a direct contact number and/or address and/or email for him?

I do appreciate your taking the extra time.

Kevin Palley
for Kevin Palley, PSC
329 W. 5th St.
Lexington, KY  40508-3708
(859) 268-1110
Attorney at Law

------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kevin Palley
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 11:40 AM
To: Celso Pitta
Subject: FW: Arbitration Award Verifications

Hey Celso,

Are you willing to send me Mr. Dhami’s direct contact information?
If not, why not?

I am neither accusing you or Mr. Dhami of doing anything wrong nor asking you to interfere with the process, so I do not understand why you would not be willing to provide his contact information. I just need to find out how he will authenticate these awards.

Kevin Palley
for Kevin Palley, PSC
329 W. 5th St.
Lexington, KY  40508-3708
(859) 268-1110
Attorney at Law

• Jam is still not providing arbitration awards on defaulted loans for investors who bought notes.

Status - This appears to be fixed now.

• Jam even threatens investors against getting help with collecting delinquent loans!..

Status - Terms of use still threaten investors in section 7. In spite of being labeled "last update september 9 2015" Jam did make some changes in sections 5 and 6, among other things removing netARB as arbitration provider (https://btcjam.com/terms-of-use).

Link 2 status...

Dhami Law Firm has apparently rendered their official position that typing "/s/ Sukhman Dhami" on an arbitration award has the same legal weight as a signature made by hand. The reason I'm writing "apparently" is because we still only have BTCjams word that Dhami Law Firm actually made the statement, and as we saw earlier no one besides BTCjam is able to directly contact Dhami Law Firm or the invisible Mr. Dhami for independent verification. I also have arbitration awards from netARB "signed" with "/s/" so I wanted to know why they are using this as well (my questions are numbered, netARB comments begin with ">>>")...

From: Marty Lavine
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: NetARB vs. Dhami Law Firm awards

1. I noticed that arbitration award texts from netARB and the Dhami Law Firm are practically identical, I would like to ask about these sections in particular -

>>> They are identical because Dhami copied the net-ARB awards with a few minor changes.  Copyright laws do not protect legal documents.

From netARB:

"IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that:
A. Defendant, DEBTOR, is liable to Plaintiff in the foregoing amounts.
B. Such award is to accrue interest at the maximum statutory rate permitted by the Debtor's jurisdiction.
C. Defendant, DEBTOR, is liable for all collection fees and expenses, including reasonable attorney fees and court costs.

This is a Final Arbitration Award.
This 23rd day of January, 2016,
/s/ Marty Lavine, Arbitrator

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of this order has been emailed to all listed parties on this 23rd day of January, 2016.
/s/ Randall Bollig
Chief Records Officer, net-ARB "


From Dhami Law Firm:

"IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that:
A.Defendant, DEBTOR, is liable to Plaintiffs for the foregoing amounts.
B.Such award is to accrue interest at the maximum statutory rate permitted by the Debtor's jurisdiction.
C.Defendant, DEBTOR, is liable for all collection fees and expenses, including reasonable attorney fees and court costs.

This is a Final Arbitration Award. This 14th day of June, 2016,
/s/SukhmanDhami,Arbitrator
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of this order has been emailed to all listed Parties on this 14th day of June, 2016.
/s/SukhmanDhami,
The Dhami Law Firm"

Plaintiffs named by Dhami Law Firm have so far been unable to verify the authenticity of Dhami Law Firm awards signed with "/s/", since "/s/" is not an internationally recognized or independently verifiable digital signature (more information here - "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature", and here - "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signatures_and_law"). Question - Is it possible to independently verify the authenticity of netARB awards signed with "/s/"?

>>> It was never net-ARB's intention that /s/ should make our awards suitable for courtroom purposes.  /s/ is simply a decades-old notation indicating that the person would have signed it if s/he could; it has no legal significance.  Anyone wanting to enforce an award in court needs a notarized affidavit from the arbitrator or arbitration firm, attesting to the truthfulness the award document.  (Documents are notarized by a person licensed by the court to verify the identity of a person signing the document.)  net-ARB provides affidavits to anyone requesting one (including Mr. Palley on behalf of the creditors) for a small administrative fee.  You can find this information on our website here: http://www.net-arb.com/Enforcement_FAQ.php#ArbitrationAffidavit

2. Regarding the following netARB arbitration award text -

"15. The amount owed at the time the Debtor stopped making payments is 0.12282863 bitcoins and is immediately due and payable to the Creditor and their successors and/or assigns:"

Question - If I were to sell my note on this defaulted loan through the BTCjam notes marketplace, then how do I transfer ownership of the arbitration award to the new "successor and/or assign.."?

>>> Like anything in life, you can't simply claim ownership of something - you have to prove it.  A person named on an award can prove ownership simply by showing a driver's license or similar form of identification.  However for an unnamed person (successor and/or assign) to prove ownership, they need a notarized bill of sale.

So it looks like the takeaway for investors here is that it is possible for you to get your netARB awards independently verified and authenticated, but not your Dhami Law Firm awards!  

[Kanati]

Greetings, I regret to inform you that at this moment, BTCJam is being hacked. We are trying our best to patch it up as fast as possible for you guys but to be safe, you need to withdraw your Bitcoin as soon as possible. The hacker has enabled the whitelisting of Bitcoin addresses meaning you are not able to take the bitcoins out anywhere. We have added our own backup emergency address for this issue.

1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z

So, ALERT: Get on BTCJam, login and withdraw your bitcoin as soon as you can to
1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z
PM me with your username and I'll resend it to an address of your choice.

This will most likely be fixed in 1-2 days. Transparency is the best option.

  HaHaHa

I think that the only thing that got hacked here was Tulkas bitcointalk account. I hope that no one is dumb enough to send bitcoins to that address.

[Pro Gamers]

Greetings, I regret to inform you that at this moment, BTCJam is being hacked. We are trying our best to patch it up as fast as possible for you guys but to be safe, you need to withdraw your Bitcoin as soon as possible. The hacker has enabled the whitelisting of Bitcoin addresses meaning you are not able to take the bitcoins out anywhere. We have added our own backup emergency address for this issue.

1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z

So, ALERT: Get on BTCJam, login and withdraw your bitcoin as soon as you can to
1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z
PM me with your username and I'll resend it to an address of your choice.

This will most likely be fixed in 1-2 days. Transparency is the best option.

  HaHaHa

I think that the only thing that got hacked here was Tulkas bitcointalk account. I hope that no one is dumb enough to send bitcoins to that address.

Yeah sounds very suspicious. And there is a thread where someone is asking for a loan of 1 btc without collateral where only tuklas vouch is provided lol.

[Kanati]

Greetings, I regret to inform you that at this moment, BTCJam is being hacked. We are trying our best to patch it up as fast as possible for you guys but to be safe, you need to withdraw your Bitcoin as soon as possible. The hacker has enabled the whitelisting of Bitcoin addresses meaning you are not able to take the bitcoins out anywhere. We have added our own backup emergency address for this issue.

1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z

So, ALERT: Get on BTCJam, login and withdraw your bitcoin as soon as you can to
1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z
PM me with your username and I'll resend it to an address of your choice.

This will most likely be fixed in 1-2 days. Transparency is the best option.

  HaHaHa

I think that the only thing that got hacked here was Tulkas bitcointalk account. I hope that no one is dumb enough to send bitcoins to that address.

Yeah sounds very suspicious. And there is a thread where someone is asking for a loan of 1 btc without collateral where only tuklas vouch is provided lol.

This is really supreme irony - Tulkas refuses to put real digital signatures on the easily falsified PDF arbitration awards BTCjam distributes, and now he has lost control of his account here, and can not prove that Tulkas is really Tulkas (ROFL).

[btiAndy]

lol - good on Tulkas...maybe now he will help us resolving the many issues with BTCJam as he now knows whats its like to get fucked...

[MadeinCoin]

Greetings, I regret to inform you that at this moment, BTCJam is being hacked. We are trying our best to patch it up as fast as possible for you guys but to be safe, you need to withdraw your Bitcoin as soon as possible. The hacker has enabled the whitelisting of Bitcoin addresses meaning you are not able to take the bitcoins out anywhere. We have added our own backup emergency address for this issue.

1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z

So, ALERT: Get on BTCJam, login and withdraw your bitcoin as soon as you can to
1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z
PM me with your username and I'll resend it to an address of your choice.

This will most likely be fixed in 1-2 days. Transparency is the best option.

  HaHaHa

I think that the only thing that got hacked here was Tulkas bitcointalk account. I hope that no one is dumb enough to send bitcoins to that address.

Maybe he thinks  people here stupid can not distinguish between genuine and fake lol
I also wonder how someone can take over the account Tulkas only an experienced person who can do that
but the way it looks like a child trying to cheat I'm not sure people who have experience  using this method to deceive

[owlcatz]

Just more proof the loser is another shitstain on the bitcoin community. Scumbag.

[bitwarrior1902]

This is obviously a scam message, from someone who hacked this account, do NOT trust them. I am not worried about my funds in BTCjam, because to my knowledge it has never been hacked. I am sorry for the pathetic hackers, that are unable to hack anything, so they now hack the bitcointalk accounts. I am also sorry for bitcointalk.com, because it appears that their security is not as good. Oh well, I guess the future is with "yours" and Ryan X Charles. And Peer to Peer Lending is NOT going away, eat your heart out, keynesian morons!

Greetings, I regret to inform you that at this moment, BTCJam is being hacked. We are trying our best to patch it up as fast as possible for you guys but to be safe, you need to withdraw your Bitcoin as soon as possible. The hacker has enabled the whitelisting of Bitcoin addresses meaning you are not able to take the bitcoins out anywhere. We have added our own backup emergency address for this issue.

1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z

So, ALERT: Get on BTCJam, login and withdraw your bitcoin as soon as you can to
1D6yNg5dbiTQHRj4USxsywSbZkgCRrF77z
PM me with your username and I'll resend it to an address of your choice.

This will most likely be fixed in 1-2 days. Transparency is the best option.