Up Like Trump

[Spendulus]

Lol, citing fire codes is only "proof" that in reality, standards exist. There could be a number of reasons for the failure of the beams OTHER THAN THEIR NOT MEETING THE CITED FIRE CODES.

The most common would be the actual conditions were different in some critical way than the test conditions.

Not a big deal, but interesting.

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[Bitbobb]

Lol, citing fire codes is only "proof" that in reality, standards exist. There could be a number of reasons for the failure of the beams OTHER THAN THEIR NOT MEETING THE CITED FIRE CODES.

The most common would be the actual conditions were different in some critical way than the test conditions.

Not a big deal, but interesting.

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

[Spendulus]

Lol, citing fire codes is only "proof" that in reality, standards exist. There could be a number of reasons for the failure of the beams OTHER THAN THEIR NOT MEETING THE CITED FIRE CODES.

The most common would be the actual conditions were different in some critical way than the test conditions.

Not a big deal, but interesting.

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

Huh?

Now Trump is involved?

Did anyone report an explosion?

[tvbcof]

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

Huh?

Now Trump is involved?

Did anyone report an explosion?

Lots of us are interested to see if Trump follows Bush, and Obama especially in his later years, and uses false-flag techniques for population management.  It will tell us a lot about the man and how he intends to govern (assuming he has much choice.)

Some of you Bay Area people may remember another similar freeway incident involving the McCarthy Maze.  That was around the time when a lot of engineers started questioning the ability of fire to collapse the twin-tower structures.  A guy crashed a fuel truck in the middle of the night when nobody was looking and within a short period of time the overpass collapsed.  In that case the paving was asphalt which at least had the theoretical possibility of melting and moving to create a heavy spot.  The simplest explanation to me, however, was that it was a 'demonstration' to 'prove' that fires could collapse things in real life where it is impossible to achieve in the lab.  Within hours the mainstream media were reporting that it 'proves the 9/11 conspiracy theorists wrong.'

[Sithara007]

D@mn.

Have to agree.  It's no joke.

This is why MAGA!  To be fair I am not sure yet if the news regarding Trump and the ISP's is true.  But I am sure that the "leaks" will not stop from his team because the agencies he is trusting and some of our "allies" are the ones that have him wiretapped.  Until Trump realizes this there will be more leaks I will guess..

There is a good deal of collusion between certain members of the GOP (such as John McCain and Lindsey Graham) and the Democrat establishment, which is consisted of the Clinton crime family, Biden, Weiner.etc. This is going to make the situation tough for Trump.

Why do you think that this is a conspiracy? What is the interest of the Republicans to help the Democrats to remove from power Trump. Agree no logic. Maybe people like McCain are really patriots. Important to them than the power and prosperity of America. Probably Russian is hard to understand, but the country's interests always the priority.

Are you joking? McCain can never be a patriot, because he is corrupt to the core and he always lobbies for the interest of various corporations. McCain has sided with the Democrats in the past, and he will continue to do so in the future.

[Bitbobb]

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

Huh?

Now Trump is involved?

Did anyone report an explosion?

Lots of us are interested to see if Trump follows Bush, and Obama especially in his later years, and uses false-flag techniques for population management.  It will tell us a lot about the man and how he intends to govern (assuming he has much choice.)

Some of you Bay Area people may remember another similar freeway incident involving the McCarthy Maze.  That was around the time when a lot of engineers started questioning the ability of fire to collapse the twin-tower structures.  A guy crashed a fuel truck in the middle of the night when nobody was looking and within a short period of time the overpass collapsed.  In that case the paving was asphalt which at least had the theoretical possibility of melting and moving to create a heavy spot.  The simplest explanation to me, however, was that it was a 'demonstration' to 'prove' that fires could collapse things in real life where it is impossible to achieve in the lab.  Within hours the mainstream media were reporting that it 'proves the 9/11 conspiracy theorists wrong.'

^^^Bingo!

[Spendulus]

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

Huh?

Now Trump is involved?

Did anyone report an explosion?

Lots of us are interested to see if Trump follows Bush, and Obama especially in his later years, and uses false-flag techniques for population management.  It will tell us a lot about the man and how he intends to govern (assuming he has much choice.)

Some of you Bay Area people may remember another similar freeway incident involving the McCarthy Maze.  That was around the time when a lot of engineers started questioning the ability of fire to collapse the twin-tower structures.  A guy crashed a fuel truck in the middle of the night when nobody was looking and within a short period of time the overpass collapsed.  In that case the paving was asphalt which at least had the theoretical possibility of melting and moving to create a heavy spot.  The simplest explanation to me, however, was that it was a 'demonstration' to 'prove' that fires could collapse things in real life where it is impossible to achieve in the lab.  Within hours the mainstream media were reporting that it 'proves the 9/11 conspiracy theorists wrong.'

Huh? Sounds like you are starting with the conclusion and modifying events and making them support the desired, pre ordained conclusion.

Asphalt? Fuel truck? Simplest explantation?

It's easy to calculate the btu or joule input to move steel along it's strength/yield curve vs temperature, and that's no big deal.

Of course you can do this in the lab. The charts were developed from lab data.

I'd expect nothing else but a fuel truck fire to collapse a bridge, by the way.

[popcorn1]

It is important to note the guidelines for the ASTM test. That is: with fire raging under the entire length of a concrete slab, the top of the concrete (the unexposed surface,) at the length of time stated, the temperature of the top of the concrete will not go above 325 farenheit. That's what? A thousand degrees below failure temp after 4 hours on the lowest grade concrete 7 inches thick, with the high grade stuff not going over that temperature at a little over 5 inches thick, with 2,000 degrees on the other side of it for two hours? And the interstate, with 24 inch thick concrete everywhere, bit the dust with about 20 minutes of feeble flame, another 20 minutes of strong flame and about 8 minutes RAGING of flame that would actually match the ASTM test? GIVE ME A BREAK, the interstate was blown NO IFS OR BUTS. Maybe Trump was questioning the 911 collapses, so they had to stage another example! All the while TRUMP HAS GOT TO KNOW THAT ASTM CODE IF HE IS IN CONSTRUCTION. Yeah, when there is an agenda magic happens!

Huh?

Now Trump is involved?

Did anyone report an explosion?

Lots of us are interested to see if Trump follows Bush, and Obama especially in his later years, and uses false-flag techniques for population management.  It will tell us a lot about the man and how he intends to govern (assuming he has much choice.)

Some of you Bay Area people may remember another similar freeway incident involving the McCarthy Maze.  That was around the time when a lot of engineers started questioning the ability of fire to collapse the twin-tower structures.  A guy crashed a fuel truck in the middle of the night when nobody was looking and within a short period of time the overpass collapsed.  In that case the paving was asphalt which at least had the theoretical possibility of melting and moving to create a heavy spot.  The simplest explanation to me, however, was that it was a 'demonstration' to 'prove' that fires could collapse things in real life where it is impossible to achieve in the lab.  Within hours the mainstream media were reporting that it 'proves the 9/11 conspiracy theorists wrong.'

^^^Bingo!

..^ Give this person a gold fucking star for science ..
demonstration' to 'prove' that fires could collapse things in real life where it is impossible to achieve in the lab.
NO FUCKING SHIT  ^^^^  IT'S FIRE ..

But the towers got blew up .. Explosives in the building to make it go bang bang and many fucking BANGS ..

And the pentagon NO PLANE HIT THAT BUILDING   100%..

FUCK ALL YOU SCUM BAG ROBBING FUCKERS  ..2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS CUNTS ..

Rather die than be my own country killer..Killing your own ..YER FUCK YOU 2

[tvbcof]

On the I-85 thing, another possibility is that it is a bone-fide terrorist incident.  Anonymous (who I suspect is very often the CIA) produced this: 

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-OmL5wMlls

I suspect that there are, or will be, real terrorist incidents via Islamic radicals or other genunine groups.  Up until now I believe that all of the reasonably successful ones have been Western + Israeli intelligence managed a-la the Operation Gladio work.

One way or another, a choking hydrocarbon fire burning for half an hour is not something which I believe could take down a massive reinforced concrete structure unless there were extreme design deficiencies associated with thermal expansion bearing surfaces and what-not.  If the fire were reported to be of a fuel containing its own oxidizer (rocket propellant, thermite, etc) I might listen.  Compromizing steel encased in concrete with a smoky fire caused by burning plastic?  Not buying it.  Even if entrapped water shattered the concrete and exposed the steel or something like that, logic and experience tells me that it would take a lot longer than 30 minutes and it is unlikely to result in any structural failure at all, particularly if the structure were completely unloaded.

This guy found a streetview of the PVC that supposedly caught fire and collapsed the road.  Doesn't look like much to me.  Of course it is possible that it was packed more full of spools subsequent to the google car passing by.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MZpBuBlUoE

[Bitbobb]

On the I-85 thing, another possibility is that it is a bone-fide terrorist incident.  Anonymous (who I suspect is very often the CIA) produced this:  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-OmL5wMlls

I suspect that there are, or will be, real terrorist incidents via Islamic radicals or other genunine groups.  Up until now I believe that all of the reasonably successful ones have been Western + Israeli intelligence managed a-la the Operation Gladio work.

One way or another, a choking hydrocarbon fire burning for half an hour is not something which I believe could take down a massive reinforced concrete structure unless there were extreme design deficiencies associated with thermal expansion bearing surfaces and what-not.  If the fire were reported to be of a fuel containing its own oxidizer (rocket propellant, thermite, etc) I might listen.  Compromizing steel encased in concrete with a smoky fire caused by burning plastic?  Not buying it.  Even if entrapped water shattered the concrete and exposed the steel or something like that, logic and experience tells me that it would take a lot longer than 30 minutes and it is unlikely to result in any structural failure at all, particularly if the structure were completely unloaded.

This guy found a streetview of the PVC that supposedly caught fire and collapsed the road.  Doesn't look like much to me.  Of course it is possible that it was packed more full of spools subsequent to the google car passing by.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MZpBuBlUoE

Plus we are not mentioning the perfectly legit road fire that happened a few days earlier from combustables that were stored under a road.  This sort of makes the public think that road fires just happen all the time...nothing to see here! 

Yeah if the lab tests take 10-14 hours and in the field it took less than 1 hour I am not buying it either.  There are enough redundancies so even if each crew had a bad weekend and was hung over there would not be enough errors to add up to any situation where this could have happened as officially explained..

[Spendulus]

DONALD TRUMP LIVE SEAN SPICER LIVE PRESS BRIEFING is live streaming LIVE: Donald Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer Press Conference 4/3/17 Sean Spicer Press Briefing.

https://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=yXctRhYZdW5rKtqZ&u=/watch%3Fv%3DWDiilvwc2eE%26feature%3Dem-lss

[Forester618]

D@mn.

Have to agree.  It's no joke.

This is why MAGA!  To be fair I am not sure yet if the news regarding Trump and the ISP's is true.  But I am sure that the "leaks" will not stop from his team because the agencies he is trusting and some of our "allies" are the ones that have him wiretapped.  Until Trump realizes this there will be more leaks I will guess..

There is a good deal of collusion between certain members of the GOP (such as John McCain and Lindsey Graham) and the Democrat establishment, which is consisted of the Clinton crime family, Biden, Weiner.etc. This is going to make the situation tough for Trump.

Why do you think that this is a conspiracy? What is the interest of the Republicans to help the Democrats to remove from power Trump. Agree no logic. Maybe people like McCain are really patriots. Important to them than the power and prosperity of America. Probably Russian is hard to understand, but the country's interests always the priority.

Are you joking? McCain can never be a patriot, because he is corrupt to the core and he always lobbies for the interest of various corporations. McCain has sided with the Democrats in the past, and he will continue to do so in the future.

I personally have not heard any reports about the corruption McCain. I heard that he is not all right with the psyche, but it may be just a rumor. He is a war veteran, was in captivity and only one that I have is trust and respect. What can be said about Trump. I do not respect him.

[Spendulus]

...

Yeah if the lab tests take 10-14 hours and in the field it took less than 1 hour I am not buying it either.  There are enough redundancies so even if each crew had a bad weekend and was hung over there would not be enough errors to add up to any situation where this could have happened as officially explained..

Making stuff up now?

All that had to happen was for the concrete/rebar to heat to a point where the rebar other steel lost it's required tensile strength. Most of those beams are "pre stressed" which means under temperature they can collapse all that more easily.

Please find more interesting grounds for your conspiracies.

[tvbcof]

...

Yeah if the lab tests take 10-14 hours and in the field it took less than 1 hour I am not buying it either.  There are enough redundancies so even if each crew had a bad weekend and was hung over there would not be enough errors to add up to any situation where this could have happened as officially explained..

Making stuff up now?

All that had to happen was for the concrete/rebar to heat to a point where the rebar other steel lost it's required tensile strength. Most of those beams are "pre stressed" which means under temperature they can collapse all that more easily.

Please find more interesting grounds for your conspiracies.

I'd say that the 'spools of cable' did cause the collapse in that they provided cover for people rigging up the event more than anything.

On the other hand, perhaps each spool burnt at, say, 700 C and all together they added up to 4000 C.  Right Spundulus?

[tvbcof]

I wasn't going to waste a lot of time in this event (or carry on on an inappropriate thread here), but I couldn't help spending a little time thinking about it and looking around.

If I were going to drop the thing, I would pulverize a couple feet near the bearing point.  This would leave bare re-bar which could not take the shear load and thus would drop the span.  After 9/11 a lot more is understood about the capabilities and properties of nano-thermite (which was scientifically proven to have been used to have been a pulverizing technique in the twin towers.)  It would be perfect for the job.

Near the beginning of this clip, if it's even the real I-85 site (and I've not spent the time to verify this as the layout looks a little wrong) is pretty much exactly what I would expect such a demo to look like (in the presence of a cloaking hydrocarbon smudge fire):

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U48Ps9lMKAY

Note the linear strip of pulverized debris on the ground after the event.  Also the guy by the pickup truck calmly monitoring the event with binoculars.

I would suggest that one of the goals would be to probe the information transmission amongst the 2017 flock of sheep.  In other words, monitor who is saying what where.  e.g., on youtube, bitcointalk.org, etc.  Perhaps also a little make-work so the various dis-info agents don't let their meat loaf.

[RoomBot]

You lost me at "Meat loaf, "  Bro.

[Bitbobb]

...

Yeah if the lab tests take 10-14 hours and in the field it took less than 1 hour I am not buying it either.  There are enough redundancies so even if each crew had a bad weekend and was hung over there would not be enough errors to add up to any situation where this could have happened as officially explained..

Making stuff up now?

All that had to happen was for the concrete/rebar to heat to a point where the rebar other steel lost it's required tensile strength. Most of those beams are "pre stressed" which means under temperature they can collapse all that more easily.

Please find more interesting grounds for your conspiracies.

I'd say that the 'spools of cable' did cause the collapse in that they provided cover for people rigging up the event more than anything.

On the other hand, perhaps each spool burnt at, say, 700 C and all together they added up to 4000 C.  Right Spundulus?

Hahaha!! 

[Sithara007]

I personally have not heard any reports about the corruption McCain. I heard that he is not all right with the psyche, but it may be just a rumor. He is a war veteran, was in captivity and only one that I have is trust and respect. What can be said about Trump. I do not respect him.

McCain is a war veteran. He was savagely tortured while being held as a POW in Vietnam. But these are the only good points I have got for him. As a politician, he is as bad as Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren. He is another shameless puppet of the oligarchs.

[GreenBits]

On the I-85 thing, another possibility is that it is a bone-fide terrorist incident.  Anonymous (who I suspect is very often the CIA) produced this:  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-OmL5wMlls

I suspect that there are, or will be, real terrorist incidents via Islamic radicals or other genunine groups.  Up until now I believe that all of the reasonably successful ones have been Western + Israeli intelligence managed a-la the Operation Gladio work.

One way or another, a choking hydrocarbon fire burning for half an hour is not something which I believe could take down a massive reinforced concrete structure unless there were extreme design deficiencies associated with thermal expansion bearing surfaces and what-not.  If the fire were reported to be of a fuel containing its own oxidizer (rocket propellant, thermite, etc) I might listen.  Compromizing steel encased in concrete with a smoky fire caused by burning plastic?  Not buying it.  Even if entrapped water shattered the concrete and exposed the steel or something like that, logic and experience tells me that it would take a lot longer than 30 minutes and it is unlikely to result in any structural failure at all, particularly if the structure were completely unloaded.

This guy found a streetview of the PVC that supposedly caught fire and collapsed the road.  Doesn't look like much to me.  Of course it is possible that it was packed more full of spools subsequent to the google car passing by.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MZpBuBlUoE

Plus we are not mentioning the perfectly legit road fire that happened a few days earlier from combustables that were stored under a road.  This sort of makes the public think that road fires just happen all the time...nothing to see here! 

Yeah if the lab tests take 10-14 hours and in the field it took less than 1 hour I am not buying it either.  There are enough redundancies so even if each crew had a bad weekend and was hung over there would not be enough errors to add up to any situation where this could have happened as officially explained..

I also had concerns about the speed of the collapse ( I assumed it was harder than that to destroy a permanent piece of concrete  infrastructure) .  And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But, looking at motivation, of this were a terrorist attack, then as this was successful, someone would have claimed responsibility. On the other hand, this would be a pointless false flag; just something that will cost money to.fix, and decrease profits while it's broken.  Seems legit, for lack of a motivated actor.

[tvbcof]

I also had concerns about the speed of the collapse ( I assumed it was harder than that to destroy a permanent piece of concrete  infrastructure) .  And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But, looking at motivation, of this were a terrorist attack, then as this was successful, someone would have claimed responsibility. On the other hand, this would be a pointless false flag; just something that will cost money to.fix, and decrease profits while it's broken.  Seems legit, for lack of a motivated actor.

Economics might be a part of it.  I think I heard the judge say that a bond for the patsy who started things by 'setting a chair on fire' would be $200,000,000 which is the estimated damages.  Ya, someone is going to make a dime off this one.

I suspect that a much bigger part is psychological.  Now any concrete structure can be dropped by a few bums with a barrel fire and 95% of the sheep will 'know' the official story is possible because 'it happened in Atlanta'.

Certain infrastructure in Europe (at least) is designed to be blown for transportation denial reasons.  One of the things combat engineers stationed in Germany would practice was going to each, opening up the doors specially designed for the charges, and inserting dummy explosives.  I was not stationed there myself, but friends who were would tell me about it.  I don't believe that the general theme is classified information or anything.  Just not widely know perhaps.  At least not in the U.S..

Point is, mobility denial is an important consideration in military strategy.  Someone analyzing the I-85 failure pointed out that the lips were missing from the span bearing, and there was a dearth of re-bar which one would expect to see in such a design feature.  I cannot get a close enough look to verify this.  In the footage I found and linked above I did see some hanging bar but noted that it was not as much as I would have expected for a lip structure.

Another thing of note is that various people reported booms, and on the footage some could be heard and the camera guy also noted it.  I also notice that the 'cop' had a beard and a distinctly 'roid physique.  Looked more like a security contractor than a cop to me.

Looks to me like we are setting up for a situation where if the shit hits the fan economically a lot of urban and suburban dwellers are going to be stuck in place.  If one is of the opinion that there are to many people, the outcome of such an event should be to one's liking.