Up Like Trump

[Spendulus]

....our intelligence agencies have all agreed Russia participated.in a state sponsored effort to change the results of the election....

That's a lie.

[1715415892]

1715415892

[1715415892]

1715415892

[1715415892]

1715415892

[1715415892]

1715415892

[1715415892]

1715415892

[RoomBot]

Sushi, anyone?

[Sithara007]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

[Bitbobb]

Exactly, it's like we forgot that for the past few decades, we have been no friend of Russia. But, since the election, most of the American public, and all of the GOP, seem to have forgotten this fact. After the Russian role in the election is fully revealed, Russia will again be a badbadnotgood.

After a year nobody can describe even a mechanism by which 'Russia interfered with the election.'  Indeed, nobody even tries.  All I see are some nebulous attempts to imply that some media platforms (e.g., RT) allowed some political stories which were negative about one political party (never mind that they tended to be perfectly true.)

To the extent that there was any genuine hacking into the election infrastructure itself, it looks fairly clear that it was Obama's DHS by a quick peak at the IP address information.  Some states called the feds out on the attacks.  It's also fairly clear that the vote tabulation systems are flawed by design at a variety of points.

I actually really like the idea that American politicians should be held to a standard of having only transparent conversations with 'non-American entities'.  That would include ALL other nation states, all media outlets, all tax exempt foundations and NGOs, all corporations, and all individuals who hold citizenship in any other country.  Going after anyone who had anything to do with Russia or anyone who was a Russian sets a precedent that could and should apply to very many other entities.

enter blockchain voting...(now if I could just find a forum to post in where the main focus is solving problems using cryptography...)

[Bitbobb]

Exactly, it's like we forgot that for the past few decades, we have been no friend of Russia. But, since the election, most of the American public, and all of the GOP, seem to have forgotten this fact. After the Russian role in the election is fully revealed, Russia will again be a badbadnotgood.

After a year nobody can describe even a mechanism by which 'Russia interfered with the election.'  Indeed, nobody even tries.  All I see are some nebulous attempts to imply that some media platforms (e.g., RT) allowed some political stories which were negative about one political party (never mind that they tended to be perfectly true.)

To the extent that there was any genuine hacking into the election infrastructure itself, it looks fairly clear that it was Obama's DHS by a quick peak at the IP address information.  Some states called the feds out on the attacks.  It's also fairly clear that the vote tabulation systems are flawed by design at a variety of points.

I actually really like the idea that American politicians should be held to a standard of having only transparent conversations with 'non-American entities'.  That would include ALL other nation states, all media outlets, all tax exempt foundations and NGOs, all corporations, and all individuals who hold citizenship in any other country.  Going after anyone who had anything to do with Russia or anyone who was a Russian sets a precedent that could and should apply to very many other entities.

We differ on this, but it's hard to explain my position if you don't heed any of the mainstream media sources. I read both sides, from Fox/Breitbart to Politico/Rawstory. I want as many details as possible.

I do feel that the emails being released did cost Hilary x number of votes. She deserved it, whatever, but we both have to agree that at least say, 100 people changed their voting outcome because of that revalation. Even though that is statistically insignificant, it was an effect. Can we both say at least 5 percent of Hilary voters turned? Even at 1 percent, this is still a whole lot of people. That, in my opinion, is a tainted result. And that doesn't speak to the effect of the bots on social media platforms; some people take social.media as a straight up news source. If they did this, and it seems like they did, I'm saying they didn't half step, they did this right. They wouldnt risk global outrage without the trade off being worth it. And we have other intelligence agencies giving us (US intell) Intel they deemed suspicious about Trumps guys. Unbidden. So the communications were so suspicious that our allies felt the need to point them out.
If it matters, our intelligence agencies have all agreed Russia participated.in a state sponsored effort to change the results of the election. Also, it all leaks so far, but the leaks suggest that Trumps surrogates had contact with Russian intelligence agents, without declaring said communications. Anything else I would point out is admitted hearsay, there are a few more kernels of truth to pick out. From one wizened head to another, I really think we will find Trump reached out to get assistance from Russia with the election. Trumps ties to the Russian underworld (check it out) make me more inclined to believe the whispers, those are actual facts. This is actually the reason why the thing about Obama wiretapping cropped up, they were indeed surveiling the tower, but becuase they were eavesdropping on the disproportionate amount of mafia figures residing in the hotel. Which is suspicious.

What source are your using to make the claim that Russia did something to influence the election?  I think this is a fake news story from Hillary camp since last November.  It started a few minutes after Hillary realized she lost the election she was told was rigged to make her win by a pre determined number.  In fact the number was reversed to send a clear message to Hillary..

Maybe you really think the Russians did something so can you please cite or source your claim?  Thanks!

[Bitbobb]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

Yeah and Assad let's Christians live in Syria in peace... He even protects them...  Can you say that about the militants/ rebels?

[tvbcof]

enter blockchain voting...(now if I could just find a forum to post in where the main focus is solving problems using cryptography...)

I don't even think the solution is that complicated.  In fact it is super easy:

 - Severe penalties for cheaters and actual enforcement.

 - Triplicate paper forms with random tamper-proof identifiers.

 - At least two adversarial counting groups (usually dems, repubs.)

 - Counts must match.  If not, the orig held by the voter can be called to see who the cheater is.

The real problem at this point are the computer based tabulations.  It was these databases which were the target for the hackers, or more simply, the cheaters.  It is understood at this point that the mainstream media can put out results make of whole cloth and nobody will question it.  If they do do a re-count the cheaters will be protected (e.g., 2016 Detroit) since actually prosecuting people would threaten the perception of America as a democracy in the minds of the sheep and thus create a 'threat to national security.'

[Bitbobb]

You forgot big oil, coal and and the private prison system. They are gonna definitely be made great again, at the expense of all.

Oh. Can't forget rolling back Wall Street regulations.

Make "too big to fail, too big to jail" great again.  

I can't help but think this recent shift to the populist right will be short lived once people realise both Trump and Brexit are clearly analogous to shooting yourself in the foot.  They just found another way to shift power, control and money to the one-percenters and people bought into it thinking things would somehow be different this time.  One day people might realise that there simply aren't career politicians with the interests of the general public at heart.  That's just not how it works.  The turkeys need to stop voting for Christmas.

I don't know why populism would necessarily become unpopular just because we peeps were chumped by an elitist.  Indeed, I drifted away from the Left in part because they increasingly favored elitism and hardly even pay lip-service to populism any more.  Getting chumped only strengthened my preference for real populism.

It is possible for a wealthy person to be a good leader and reluctantly take it upon himself to be one.  Cincinnatus has cities named after him thousands of years after his death because certain kinds of decency are universally valued.  There was at least a hope that Trump would have some ambitions along these lines, but it actually didn't matter much.  As with the Obama/McCain race, the alternative was a known mega-disaster.

The shame of things from my perspective is that I could have saved myself a lot of time and a little money by spending 5 minutes listening to the anti-semite folks and just going with what they say.  I was aware that they guy was ultra-Jewey from Ezra Levant (himself a very proud Jew in the media who, amusingly enough, noted in his reporting that he hoped the goy would not pay attention to his segment.)  I had to just hope that Trump didn't prove to be an Israel First Zionista once in office, but I considered it a distinct possibility and probably the biggest risk.  That's why I always considered Trump to be a coin toss and resolved to wait at least 6 months before solidifying any conclusions.  Took only 2 months.

[RoomBot]

Estonia already has blockchain voting.

Dubai wants everything government on their blockchain by 2020.

Blockchain Rules.

[Bitbobb]

enter blockchain voting...(now if I could just find a forum to post in where the main focus is solving problems using cryptography...)

I don't even think the solution is that complicated.  In fact it is super easy:

 - Severe penalties for cheaters and actual enforcement.

 - Triplicate paper forms with random tamper-proof identifiers.

 - At least two adversarial counting groups (usually dems, repubs.)

 - Counts must match.  If not, the orig held by the voter can be called to see who the cheater is.

The real problem at this point are the computer based tabulations.  It was these databases which were the target for the hackers, or more simply, the cheaters.  It is understood at this point that the mainstream media can put out results make of whole cloth and nobody will question it.  If they do do a re-count the cheaters will be protected (e.g., 2016 Detroit) since actually prosecuting people would threaten the perception of America as a democracy in the minds of the sheep and thus create a 'threat to national security.'

^^^ good suggestions.  Only correction I would make is the 2 party system is basically the same party and the primary systems keeps any third party from ever ending the scam.

Also I would add that the larger human based vote fraud came from county board of election workers who are placed long in advance and were busted running ballots through the machines 12x for hillary and 0x for trump.  This was found during the recount and was the last info that came out before a judge cancelled the entire statewide recount..

interesting side note in the above mentioned instance the county clerk was available to immediately comment as to why his workers needed to run the ballots upto 12x in the case for Hillary and 0x for Trump because he claims the machines are old.  Also interesting to note that this same clerk was asked regularly if his machines were old and for years has never made 1 complaint,... and yet within minutes of the "human error" fraud being busted he for the first time ever states the machines are old and that his workers must have forgot to zero out the tally after they were done rescanning the hillary ballots 12x and the Trump ballot 0x..  LOL

[GreenBits]

Exactly, it's like we forgot that for the past few decades, we have been no friend of Russia. But, since the election, most of the American public, and all of the GOP, seem to have forgotten this fact. After the Russian role in the election is fully revealed, Russia will again be a badbadnotgood.

After a year nobody can describe even a mechanism by which 'Russia interfered with the election.'  Indeed, nobody even tries.  All I see are some nebulous attempts to imply that some media platforms (e.g., RT) allowed some political stories which were negative about one political party (never mind that they tended to be perfectly true.)

To the extent that there was any genuine hacking into the election infrastructure itself, it looks fairly clear that it was Obama's DHS by a quick peak at the IP address information.  Some states called the feds out on the attacks.  It's also fairly clear that the vote tabulation systems are flawed by design at a variety of points.

I actually really like the idea that American politicians should be held to a standard of having only transparent conversations with 'non-American entities'.  That would include ALL other nation states, all media outlets, all tax exempt foundations and NGOs, all corporations, and all individuals who hold citizenship in any other country.  Going after anyone who had anything to do with Russia or anyone who was a Russian sets a precedent that could and should apply to very many other entities.

We differ on this, but it's hard to explain my position if you don't heed any of the mainstream media sources. I read both sides, from Fox/Breitbart to Politico/Rawstory. I want as many details as possible.

I do feel that the emails being released did cost Hilary x number of votes. She deserved it, whatever, but we both have to agree that at least say, 100 people changed their voting outcome because of that revalation. Even though that is statistically insignificant, it was an effect. Can we both say at least 5 percent of Hilary voters turned? Even at 1 percent, this is still a whole lot of people. That, in my opinion, is a tainted result. And that doesn't speak to the effect of the bots on social media platforms; some people take social.media as a straight up news source. If they did this, and it seems like they did, I'm saying they didn't half step, they did this right. They wouldnt risk global outrage without the trade off being worth it. And we have other intelligence agencies giving us (US intell) Intel they deemed suspicious about Trumps guys. Unbidden. So the communications were so suspicious that our allies felt the need to point them out.
If it matters, our intelligence agencies have all agreed Russia participated.in a state sponsored effort to change the results of the election. Also, it all leaks so far, but the leaks suggest that Trumps surrogates had contact with Russian intelligence agents, without declaring said communications. Anything else I would point out is admitted hearsay, there are a few more kernels of truth to pick out. From one wizened head to another, I really think we will find Trump reached out to get assistance from Russia with the election. Trumps ties to the Russian underworld (check it out) make me more inclined to believe the whispers, those are actual facts. This is actually the reason why the thing about Obama wiretapping cropped up, they were indeed surveiling the tower, but becuase they were eavesdropping on the disproportionate amount of mafia figures residing in the hotel. Which is suspicious.

What source are your using to make the claim that Russia did something to influence the election?  I think this is a fake news story from Hillary camp since last November.  It started a few minutes after Hillary realized she lost the election she was told was rigged to make her win by a pre determined number.  In fact the number was reversed to send a clear message to Hillary..

Maybe you really think the Russians did something so can you please cite or source your claim?  Thanks!

This is the most official thing I could find, but do know this is a popular opinion amoung the non Trump camp. We see the fact that this investigation has kept going on for so long despite Comey being decidedly partisan (read Hillary email disclosure). If there was nothing, we wouldn't be hearing about it still.

This is a statement from
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/215-press-releases-2016/1423-joint-dhs-odni-election-security-statement

I don't know how.you feel about Wikipedia. In this case they are citing Senate testimony, here is the link to the article..it is seemingly non partisan, but maybe I am not the best judge. See for yourself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

Let me.cite a bit for the sake of ease:

December 2016 CIA report
On December 9, the CIA told U.S. legislators the U.S. Intelligence Community had concluded, in a consensus view, that Russia conducted operations to assist Donald Trump in winning the presidency, stating that "individuals with connections to the Russian government", previously known to the intelligence community, had given WikiLeaks hacked emails from the DNC and John Podesta.[61] The agencies further stated that Russia had hacked the RNC as well, but did not leak information obtained from there.[62] These assessments were based on evidence obtained before the election.[63] According to an unnamed official, the intelligence community did not believe that Moscow’s efforts altered the outcome of the election.

Now before you comment on the fact they concluded there was no effect, understand that this is dated, and the investigation was reopened and is still.in progress. Which is.what I mean about it being interesting this is still going on. This apparently warranted a second look.

Next cite:
During a House Intelligence Committee hearing in early December, the CIA said it was certain of Russia's intent to help Trump, but the FBI said "it’s not clear that they have a specific goal or mix of related goals".[75] On December 16, 2016, CIA Director John O. Brennan sent a message to his staff saying he had spoken with FBI Director James Comey and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and that all agreed with the CIA's conclusion that Russia interfered in the presidential election with the motive of supporting Donald Trump's candidacy.[76]

January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment
On January 6, 2017, after briefing the president, the president-elect, and members of the Senate and House, U.S. intelligence agencies released a de-classified version[83] of the report on Russian activities. The report asserted that Russia had carried out a massive cyber operation ordered by Russian President Putin with the goal to sabotage the 2016 U.S. elections. The agencies concluded that Putin and the Russian government tried to help Trump win the election by discrediting Hillary Clinton and portraying her negatively relative to Trump, and that Russia had conducted a multipronged cyber campaign consisting of hacking and the extensive use of social media and trolls, as well as open propaganda on Russian-controlled news platforms.[84] A large part of the report was dedicated to criticizing Russian TV channel RT America, which it described as a "messaging tool" for the Kremlin.[85]

There is alot more of this. You don't have to take it from Wikipedia if you don't want to, I understand the mistrust of that particular source, but these are jumping off points.for independent research (the best kind). I'm not trying to lie.to you guys, or deceive. Being sincere, it truly looks fishy to me. With that being said, I don't believe in a nefarious 'deep state'. I do believe it exist, and if it does, it is most likely conservative (military types tend toward conservatism, can we agree?) But it serves the country, not a party. It literally exist at the behest of the country. Please believe.I understand they do some amazingly fucked up shit, in the name of security. But this is directed outward, not one of the myriad plots to.militarize society (different conversation).

[tvbcof]

I knew I would have to try to analyze how 'real' Trump was if he got in.  One thing I resolved to try to keep an eye on was whether the ridiculous psy-ops continued.  Especially the ones where the 'families of the victims' immediately going into the news cycle talking about how they love and forgive the person who supposedly just shot their family member or whatever.

It seemed that there was a hiatus of such psy-ops for several months after Trump, but now they seem to be back with a vengeance.  Here's a reasonably well put together study of the phenomenon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2VnVqlLzPI

Some people are clinging to the hope that Trump is playing a deep game and will eventually burst through to save us.  I don't rule it out as a possibility, and if so, feigning a sell-out posture would be the way to do it, but now believe that it is a very long-shot indeed.  Even if this is true, Trump and his real hidden operatives would hold we who speak out (rather than suck up to him as he gives every appearance of selling out) in high regard.

[Sithara007]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

Yeah and Assad let's Christians live in Syria in peace... He even protects them...  Can you say that about the militants/ rebels?

The rebels are mostly hardline Islamist factions. Previously, they have even committed genocide against fellow Muslim minorities such as Alawites, Ismailis and Kurds. You can imagine what will happen to the Christians if these people come to power.

[vips]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

Yeah and Assad let's Christians live in Syria in peace... He even protects them...  Can you say that about the militants/ rebels?

The rebels are mostly hardline Islamist factions. Previously, they have even committed genocide against fellow Muslim minorities such as Alawites, Ismailis and Kurds. You can imagine what will happen to the Christians if these people come to power.

The mass hypnosis has lost its grip. Republicans+democrats+pope+el chapo+soros, all united to stop TRUMP...

What a beautiful sight...... Or if they will let him win. At all.

[Spendulus]

....
 The mass hypnosis has lost its grip. Republicans+democrats+pope+el chapo+soros, all united to stop TRUMP...

What a beautiful sight...... Or if they will let him win. At all.

Made up, posted by sock puppet on internet.


Yawn.

[RoomBot]

....
 The mass hypnosis has lost its grip. Republicans+democrats+pope+el chapo+soros, all united to stop TRUMP...

What a beautiful sight...... Or if they will let him win. At all.

Made up, posted by sock puppet on internet.


Yawn.

"Pope & el chapo united to stop Trump."   wtf?

[Spendulus]

....
 The mass hypnosis has lost its grip. Republicans+democrats+pope+el chapo+soros, all united to stop TRUMP...

What a beautiful sight...... Or if they will let him win. At all.

Made up, posted by sock puppet on internet.


Yawn.

"Pope & el chapo united to stop Trump."   wtf?

I have an opinion - could be wrong - but my opinion is that the attempts at demonization of Trump are going to fail.

It's worth remembering Trump isn't really even a Republican.

Interestingly, were the tables reversed, there would be no need to mount a giant campaign to demonize Hillary.

She already was a demon.

[Marcus_2017]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

Yeah and Assad let's Christians live in Syria in peace... He even protects them...  Can you say that about the militants/ rebels?

The rebels are mostly hardline Islamist factions. Previously, they have even committed genocide against fellow Muslim minorities such as Alawites, Ismailis and Kurds. You can imagine what will happen to the Christians if these people come to power.

Nothing good will. I do not understand how for so many centuries, the Christian community could live in Syria. Or the early Muslims were more peaceful? In any case, it will be hard to live because peace in the middle East will not be a very long time.

[GreenBits]

The Russians have never not been a friend of America. They have always supported regimes which fought against the United States. Have you seen any changes? The only change I saw is that the Russian began to allow themselves to interfere in the internal Affairs of America. Before, I don't remember.

Russians have supported secular regimes instead of Islamic fiefdoms. Look at Syria. Bashar al Assad is the last remaining secular ruler in the entire Middle East. Russia is right in supporting him.

Yeah and Assad let's Christians live in Syria in peace... He even protects them...  Can you say that about the militants/ rebels?

The rebels are mostly hardline Islamist factions. Previously, they have even committed genocide against fellow Muslim minorities such as Alawites, Ismailis and Kurds. You can imagine what will happen to the Christians if these people come to power.

Nothing good will. I do not understand how for so many centuries, the Christian community could live in Syria. Or the early Muslims were more peaceful? In any case, it will be hard to live because peace in the middle East will not be a very long time.

I feel as though the sectarian violence has always been a feature of the region; this occurs whenever there are multiple religions /ehtnic groups (for all practical purposes) cohabitating closely. What is new, is the level of violence that can be achieved with modern technologies, and the level of media dissemination each attack can achieve given the state of communications today.  This always happens, essentially. It's just escalating, like everything else does over time.

Also, the radicalization efforts would be localized, social media makes the threat of remote radicalization much more severe.

[Sithara007]

Nothing good will. I do not understand how for so many centuries, the Christian community could live in Syria. Or the early Muslims were more peaceful? In any case, it will be hard to live because peace in the middle East will not be a very long time.

Christians have been living in the middle east even before prophet Mohammed began spreading Islam. Syria was like 30% Christian a century ago. Now this percentage has gone below 10%. Lebanon was 70% Christian in 1930. Now it has been decreased to 30%.