Bitcoin Forum
October 23, 2017, 06:51:11 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.0.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ♘♕♔SWING♚ ♛♞ ▬▬▬▬●Programmatically Fluctuating Miners Cost!●▬▬▬▬ Now On Bittrex!  (Read 100683 times)
murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
February 08, 2016, 04:00:01 AM
 #741

Looks like it's back on track.

I've got a little more free time now. I'm going to resume looking into core upgrades and will try to post about progress.

The process looks like this

[✓] Identify problems
[✓] Identify potential solutions
[Partial] Code upgrades
[Partial] Test upgrades in simulation environments
[X] Work upgrade into core
[X] Test upgraded code across multiple clients
[X] Decide on fork method (hard or soft)
[X] Allow community to do a code-review of the proposed update
[X] Set fork date
[X] Notify Services and Exchanges
[X] Push new version

Yep, it's working again... my wallet is staking now.

Awesome to hear about the new core upgrade roadmap.  What exactly is going to be changed or added to the core?



So basically the way it does the reward math is a little shitty and causes rounding errors. It sometimes results in weird reward output that can get rounded differently on different operating systems (causing disagreement across the network). Unfortunately I didn't do enough cross-platform testing pre-launch to identify this as a potential problem. The result is some users not on linux falling out of sync, and needing to re-download the chain occasionally. It's also probably the cause of blockchain freezes like we just experienced. I think we've had that happen twice now.

The fix is to clean up the math so it outputs clean amounts for every block reward, and doesn't leave it up to the operating system to decide how to finalize the numbers.

I'll be sure to put clear examples of any potential changes, showing the exact results that will change. I'll also show the code proposals so the more tech-savvy users can dissect and give feedback.

I think I made a post a while back that makes this a little clearer. I'll try to dig it up and quote.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1508741471
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508741471

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508741471
Reply with quote  #2

1508741471
Report to moderator
murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
February 08, 2016, 04:06:17 AM
 #742

Quote from: murderouskirk

Let me give some insight.

I've recently been digging into what happens with the rewards when they are calculated, and exactly what's going on when getting calculated.

With the current setup, that process looks something like this:

Note that the final reward amount is later formatted. So 975000000 would become 9.75000000

Code:
Block Count: 975 Last Three Digits: 975 Decimal: 9.75 Final:975000000

Block Count: 976 Last Three Digits: 976 Decimal: 9.76 Final:976000000

Block Count: 977 Last Three Digits: 977 Decimal: 9.77 Final:977000000

Block Count: 978 Last Three Digits: 978 Decimal: 9.78 Final:977999999.99999988079071044921875

Block Count: 979 Last Three Digits: 979 Decimal: 9.790000000000001 Final:979000000.00000011920928955078125

Block Count: 980 Last Three Digits: 980 Decimal: 9.8 Final:980000000.00000011920928955078125

Block Count: 981 Last Three Digits: 981 Decimal: 9.81 Final:981000000

Block Count: 982 Last Three Digits: 982 Decimal: 9.82 Final:982000000

Block Count: 983 Last Three Digits: 983 Decimal: 9.83 Final:983000000

Block Count: 984 Last Three Digits: 984 Decimal: 9.84 Final:984000000

Block Count: 985 Last Three Digits: 985 Decimal: 9.85 Final:985000000

Block Count: 986 Last Three Digits: 986 Decimal: 9.86 Final:986000000

Block Count: 987 Last Three Digits: 987 Decimal: 9.870000000000001 Final:987000000.00000011920928955078125

Block Count: 988 Last Three Digits: 988 Decimal: 9.88 Final:988000000.00000011920928955078125

HERE is the section of code that spits this out. I just used block 1 - 999 as sample output. For the sake of clarity i re-coded the process in java for faster debugging. (im just better at java is all, but java may produce slightly different results is the point)

So what I discovered is that somewhere else in the code the decimal is inserted into a full number with 9+ digits.
The end result in this section of code that gets passed out looks something like '9.87 * COIN' (=987000000).

Me attempting to put in the decimal during the reward calculation instead of letting it do it after results in some unnecessary math. Math that doesn't always turn out clean, and leaves room to lose accuracy when clipping/rounding the final result to a full number.

We need to re-code this section so results like this:

Block Count: 987 Last Three Digits: 987 Decimal: 9.870000000000001 Final:987000000.00000011920928955078125

Instead act like this:

Block Count: 987 Last Three Digits: 987 Final:987000000


Now, this is an example of POS. POW gets a little more challenging since rewards need to be multiplied by 10%.. 20%.. 30%.. etc.. But I'm working on doing that cleanly too.

But that's essentially where we have room for core upgrades and cleaning up the internal math for increased accuracy.

So that should give you guys a little better idea at what I've been looking at.

Will post more later as I make progress.
murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
February 08, 2016, 04:21:33 AM
 #743

So traditionally when writing the rewards code in an altcoin it looks like this

@Blocks X - Z:

reward = indendedOutput * Coin

intendedOutput=number you want to be rewarded for that block
Coin is usually dismissed and not thought about.

After we started having issues I dug into it and it turns out Coin is only used to format the rewards section in a more sensible manner.

Coin = 100000000 (adds 8 0's to your coin amount)

So, if we want a reward of 1 coin:

reward = 1 * Coin

But in reality this pushes 100000000, which is sent to be formatted and turns into 1.00000000

So when I tried to do something like:

9.87 * coin, we get issues. Functions like this are only accurate to a certain decimal place in programming.

Instead of 987000000, we get 987000000.00000011920928955078125

While most operating systems would round this particular example to 987000000 automatically, not all results &or operating systems round so cleanly.

So rounding errors like this is some higher (lower?) level computer science voodoo that I honestly wasn't aware of, and didn't show up in my testing.

It can be fixed, but that's the biggest issue facing swing currently.

(On a side note, most altcoins forking issues are caused by this. Lots of devs never figure out the cause and it's killed tons of coins.)

Fortunately I learned of rounding errors thanks to the dev lounge in my slack group, and had a computer based PHD student / friend help me dissect the code to see exactly where things were going wrong.

Also the resulting issues aren't too severe for us (yet). I don't think we are in much danger of catastrophic failure, just minor annoyances.



A side note, if you want to help with core development in Swing reach out to me!


More casually helping people holding Swing and a basic understanding of development = Faster / Better / Cooler upgrades.

Only know how to code? I'm happy to share core development basics. You don't have to understand the entire core to work on an altcoin.

If we want Swing to thrive, we need devs more than anything else.

I'll keep trying to make progress solo in the meantime.
coinhugger
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728



View Profile
February 08, 2016, 05:27:25 AM
 #744

So traditionally when writing the rewards code in an altcoin it looks like this

@Blocks X - Z:

reward = indendedOutput * Coin

intendedOutput=number you want to be rewarded for that block
Coin is usually dismissed and not thought about.

After we started having issues I dug into it and it turns out Coin is only used to format the rewards section in a more sensible manner.

Coin = 100000000 (adds 8 0's to your coin amount)

So, if we want a reward of 1 coin:

reward = 1 * Coin

But in reality this pushes 100000000, which is sent to be formatted and turns into 1.00000000

So when I tried to do something like:

9.87 * coin, we get issues. Functions like this are only accurate to a certain decimal place in programming.

Instead of 987000000, we get 987000000.00000011920928955078125

While most operating systems would round this particular example to 987000000 automatically, not all results &or operating systems round so cleanly.

So rounding errors like this is some higher (lower?) level computer science voodoo that I honestly wasn't aware of, and didn't show up in my testing.

It can be fixed, but that's the biggest issue facing swing currently.

(On a side note, most altcoins forking issues are caused by this. Lots of devs never figure out the cause and it's killed tons of coins.)

Fortunately I learned of rounding errors thanks to the dev lounge in my slack group, and had a computer based PHD student / friend help me dissect the code to see exactly where things were going wrong.

Also the resulting issues aren't too severe for us (yet). I don't think we are in much danger of catastrophic failure, just minor annoyances.



A side note, if you want to help with core development in Swing reach out to me!


More casually helping people holding Swing and a basic understanding of development = Faster / Better / Cooler upgrades.

Only know how to code? I'm happy to share core development basics. You don't have to understand the entire core to work on an altcoin.

If we want Swing to thrive, we need devs more than anything else.

I'll keep trying to make progress solo in the meantime.


Ok, good. Thanks for the clarification. Looking forward to a bright future for Swing.

Simss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
February 13, 2016, 03:01:10 AM
 #745


still waiting on the date of profile update dev


           ▄▄███▀ ▀█▄▄▄
       ▄▄▀▀████ ███▄▄▀▀█▀▄
     ▄▀▄███▄▄▀ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀▄█▄
   ▄█▀▄███▀▀▄█ ▀███████▀▄▀▄▀▀▄
  ▀█▀▄▀▀▄▄███ ██▄▀████▀▄██ ██▄▀▄
 ██▄▀█████ ████▄▀██▀▄████ ██▀▄
 █▀▄ ██▄▀██ ███████▄▀▄▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀▄█
▄▀▄█ ████▄ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▀█████▀▄▀█▄
▀▄██ ███▀▄█▄▀█████▀▄██▄▀███▀▄█▄▀█
█▄▀██ █▀▄███▄▀███▀▄████▄▀█▀▄███▄▀
 ██▄ ▄██████▄▀█▀▄██████▄▀▄█▀▀▄▄▄
  ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀▄▀▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▄█████
  ▀ ███ ██████▀▄▀███████▀▄▀████▀
   ▀████ ███▀▄███ ████▀▄██ ██▀
     ▀███ █▀▄█████▄▀▀▄█████
       ▀█▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄

           ▀▀ ▀███▀▀▀
SPHERIS█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
kheysha
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 107

Swarm Token Sale begins on September 7th at 16:00


View Profile
February 15, 2016, 09:31:48 AM
 #746


whether fate will be the same as the coin iec Huh Huh Huh

coinhugger
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728



View Profile
February 15, 2016, 10:58:49 AM
 #747


whether fate will be the same as the coin iec Huh Huh Huh

SWING coin is great the way it is already. It stakes very well and it is also holding its value very well. You can buy some from Bittrex or Cryptopia, put it in your wallet and it will start staking new coins for you daily.

murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
February 16, 2016, 08:46:16 AM
 #748


still waiting on the date of profile update dev


whether fate will be the same as the coin iec Huh Huh Huh

What? I don't follow sorry. Can you explain?
teddyarisyanto
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10


View Profile
February 16, 2016, 09:39:01 AM
 #749


I expect the price will recover  Sad Sad Sad
murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
February 16, 2016, 10:18:23 PM
 #750


I expect the price will recover  Sad Sad Sad

lol wait why Sad Sad Sad is price increase a bad thing?   Huh
Simss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280



View Profile
February 21, 2016, 06:01:25 AM
 #751


expect prices to 10k sat back again Huh Huh Huh


           ▄▄███▀ ▀█▄▄▄
       ▄▄▀▀████ ███▄▄▀▀█▀▄
     ▄▀▄███▄▄▀ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀▄█▄
   ▄█▀▄███▀▀▄█ ▀███████▀▄▀▄▀▀▄
  ▀█▀▄▀▀▄▄███ ██▄▀████▀▄██ ██▄▀▄
 ██▄▀█████ ████▄▀██▀▄████ ██▀▄
 █▀▄ ██▄▀██ ███████▄▀▄▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀▄█
▄▀▄█ ████▄ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▀█████▀▄▀█▄
▀▄██ ███▀▄█▄▀█████▀▄██▄▀███▀▄█▄▀█
█▄▀██ █▀▄███▄▀███▀▄████▄▀█▀▄███▄▀
 ██▄ ▄██████▄▀█▀▄██████▄▀▄█▀▀▄▄▄
  ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀▄▀▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▄█████
  ▀ ███ ██████▀▄▀███████▀▄▀████▀
   ▀████ ███▀▄███ ████▀▄██ ██▀
     ▀███ █▀▄█████▄▀▀▄█████
       ▀█▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄

           ▀▀ ▀███▀▀▀
SPHERIS█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
█████
▄▄▄▄▄
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
▀▀▀▀▀
█████
█████
█████
█████
coinhugger
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728



View Profile
February 28, 2016, 11:18:15 AM
 #752

Swing coin is swinging nicely, I'm very happy with my investment I got to say, giving me a solid return every day. It's the only POS coin that has very stable price and brilliant inflation control because of the unique algorithm no other coin possesses. Thank you dev.

gregofdoom
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330


NAV, DBIX, ADZ, ERC, TIME, VGS, XDEII, AMS


View Profile
February 28, 2016, 12:07:13 PM
 #753

Swing coin is swinging nicely, I'm very happy with my investment I got to say, giving me a solid return every day. It's the only POS coin that has very stable price and brilliant inflation control because of the unique algorithm no other coin possesses. Thank you dev.



I agree fully.
As for the price, SWING already cheaper will not.
Coins is not enough, dev reliable and large community.
10k sat definitely we see  Cool

murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
March 04, 2016, 09:03:25 PM
 #754

Swing coin is swinging nicely, I'm very happy with my investment I got to say, giving me a solid return every day. It's the only POS coin that has very stable price and brilliant inflation control because of the unique algorithm no other coin possesses. Thank you dev.



I agree fully.
As for the price, SWING already cheaper will not.
Coins is not enough, dev reliable and large community.
10k sat definitely we see  Cool

Yeah pretty much.

I usually don't like to talk price but I don't think 10k would be that difficult to achieve. We've seen a very strong floor and there's been plenty of accumulation time.

All it would take for Swing to go up a few thousand satoshis in value (or more) is someone deciding to move the price. Right now there's only 2.77 BTC worth of swing for sale between current price and 10k. A trader with an average sized wallet could move the floor up pretty easily.

People seem to be realizing this too judging by the recent price increases. It's getting harder to get Swing cheap I think.



On a related note, I've been working towards getting a small office / workstations for my startup business. When I'm able to achieve this I will have a nice environment setup specifically for working with blockchains. The benefits of that are pretty obvious, but to be clear it would allow me to build upgrades for swing and do testing a lot more effectively. We will find out in a few months if our submission for a $50k grant gets approved. Till then we're digging for smaller investors that might be able to help us pay for the work environment sooner and allow for prototyping to happen.

To be clear I am not asking for seed money from you guys, I'm dealing with standard investment avenues for now. Nor is the company based around Swing. However, it is blockchain based which would allow me to grow into a much better dev for Swing. I just wanted to give you guys a feel for where my focus has been lately, and how that focus ties back into Swing.

Slow and steady wins the race.
Mohareb
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile
March 05, 2016, 01:54:27 AM
 #755

Swing coin is swinging nicely, I'm very happy with my investment I got to say, giving me a solid return every day. It's the only POS coin that has very stable price and brilliant inflation control because of the unique algorithm no other coin possesses. Thank you dev.



What does you mean about unique algorithm? SAh256 is not Unique. beside algorithm at POS phase is not important and has not any influence on earning.

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
PRIMEDICE
The Premier Bitcoin Gambling Experience - Most Trusted & Popular Bitcoin Game @PrimeDice
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
March 05, 2016, 02:25:55 AM
 #756

Swing coin is swinging nicely, I'm very happy with my investment I got to say, giving me a solid return every day. It's the only POS coin that has very stable price and brilliant inflation control because of the unique algorithm no other coin possesses. Thank you dev.



What does you mean about unique algorithm? SAh256 is not Unique. beside algorithm at POS phase is not important and has not any influence on earning.

I think he meant the reward schema.
opmac
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


View Profile
March 07, 2016, 02:46:45 AM
 #757

Is this the latest window wallet for download?   v1.0.0.1

Thanks

murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
March 07, 2016, 02:57:54 AM
 #758

Is this the latest window wallet for download?   v1.0.0.1

Thanks

Yup, that's it.
opmac
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


View Profile
March 07, 2016, 03:28:52 AM
 #759

Is there a working pool?

I do not want a multi pool

murderouskirk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
March 07, 2016, 04:17:45 AM
 #760

Is there a working pool?

I do not want a multi pool

Looking around it seems most have removed Swing. Solo mining, staking, and buying appear to be the best options currently.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!