CryptoNote technical discussion and Chess Challenge

[smooth]

Both moves look okay to me but I like keeping our knight in the forward position putting indirect pressure on their king. It's also blocking their queen in on the left side doing nothing.

Nd4

[letsplayagame]

I remain very interested in CryptoNote but am happy that I have so far delayed making my first purchase.  The recent bitcoin rally has been a pleasant surprise.  I may take advantage of the lower prices of CryptoNote coins (in bitcoin terms) soon. Privacy continues to be something that is gaining more attention and CryptoNote and ZeroCoin seem to be the most promising options to address the privacy limitations of bitcoin.

I am interesting in hearing more comments about this article:
http://www.wired.com/2015/11/zerocoin-startup-revives-the-dream-of-truly-anonymous-money/

1. How will the funding model impact distribution?
2. Has the trusted setup problem been sufficiently solved?
3. How scalable will this be compared to CryptoNote? What about compared to CryptoNote plus Confidential Transactions?

Besides CryptoNote and ZeroCoin are there any other promising alternatives on the horizon?

I continue to follow developments here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3pw30d/ringct_for_monero_updated_versions/

Can someone explain to me in detail exactly how this process would work on a technical level? If Zerocoin ever has a chance of becoming a successful currency (which the angel investors must think it has a chance to be) this setup process must be beyond reproach.

...
-If I recall correctly, the creator of the genesis block holds some kind of masterkey. As a result, you have to trust this person. Even if this key was held by a group, you still have to trust that particular group. In addition, you have to trust the program they run to create the Genesis block (the masterkey could be in there).
...

This. The centralization of security makes it possibly even worse than Dash.

Well, in theory there is supposed to be a genesis creation event where the keys are generated and held by a dozen well known entities. The process is observed by people physically present and online via live video where the genesis block is created and all the keys are destroyed. Even if some of the keyholders are dishonest and somehow manage to make and keep a copy of their key it is useless without all of the other keys. As long as one person is honest or incapable of keeping a copy then the key is destroyed forever and the event never needs to be recreated.

With all that said, I'm rather dubious of the ability to pull it off and the trust that would need to be imbued by new participants as the currency gains more use. The point is that it is possible to setup in a manner where future trust isn't necessary, at least theoretically.

[ArticMine]

Both moves look okay to me but I like keeping our knight in the forward position putting indirect pressure on their king. It's also blocking their queen in on the left side doing nothing.

Nd4

20. Nd4

I agree. Nd4 keeps the strong knight on d5.

[boolberry]

Current position
Based on the votes in this thread Team Monero has chosen to play Nd4. Now it is time for Team Boolberry to respond. I will plan to count votes again tomorrow at approximately 0:00 UTC.

Team Monero (white pieces) vs. Team Boolberry (black pieces)
black to move

1.e4 c5
2.Nf3 d6
3.d4 cxd4
4.Qxd4 a6
5.c4 Nc6
6.Qe3 g6
7.Nc3 Bg7
8.Be2 Nf6
9.O-O O-O
10.h3 Nd7
11.b3 Nc5
12.Bb2 f5
13.exf5 Bxf5
14.Rad1 Qa5
15.Rd2 Rf6
16.Nd5 Re6
17.Qf4 Ne4
18.Bxg7 Kxg7
19.Rb2 Nc3
20.Nd4

[funnyman21]

Re5 looks good

[dre1982]

Re5 looks good

I will go for Re4.

If he trades knights at c6 we attack, if we recapture with the pawn, his other knight and queen.

Not good, Re5 it is.

[newb4now]

Nxe2 check

[TPTB_need_war]

Nxe2 check

Very strong move because if white captures with Nxe2, then Black moves Bd3 so white can't move Nx3 to lock the Knights together, protect the pawn at a2 and open up the center for the Re2, because otherwise Bxf1 can't be countered (without a checkmate on next move of Qe1 or Re1) and white looses the Rook at f1. If white captures instead with Rxe2, then will lose the pawn at a2 after black Rxe2 and white counters Nxe2).

I didn't see any other possibility for white to counter, but maybe there is if I study longer.

Before black moved the Knight I was thinking white should move the Bd3 to break up that problem. I thought white was winning with that move otherwise would lose (but I didn't post my comments because I didn't have enough time to study all the possible counter strategies for black). Seems to have played out.

The general insight was that white's bishop was nearly useless because black has positioned most of his pieces to block light-square diagonals yet Black's bishop is in a strong position, and White's bishop was in a weak position there with the Rook next to the King on the light-square diagonal. So it was better to put the white Bishop is a position to trade with the Black bishop and force the pawn to move that is protecting Black's king from White's queen. They key to the entire game seemed to be freeing up White's queen by breaking that position held by black on the right side.

Ostensibly white squandered the past two moves and returned the upper hand to black after black made what I believed to be the mistake (premature move, if white had capitalized on it) of Kxg7.

[boolberry]

2 votes Re5 (funnyman21, dre1982)
2 votes Nxe2+ (newb4now, TPTB_need_war_)

I was having a hard time deciding between the two above moves, but was leaning towards Nxe2+.  I was not in a rush to post my preference because at the time I had not yet seen the TPTB vote. Before he voted, my voting for Nxe2+ would have only led to a tie and not changed the outcome because of our tiebreak rule:

We need a tie breaking mechanism. For example one can look at the result before the vote that led to the tie and use that instead.

Unfortunately it is now a few minutes past 0:00 UTC so too late for me to vote by our rules.

Current position
Based on the votes in this thread Team Boolberry has chosen to play Re5. Now it is time for Team Monero to respond. I will plan to count votes again tomorrow at approximately 0:00 UTC.

Team Monero (white pieces) vs. Team Boolberry (black pieces)
white to move

1.e4 c5
2.Nf3 d6
3.d4 cxd4
4.Qxd4 a6
5.c4 Nc6
6.Qe3 g6
7.Nc3 Bg7
8.Be2 Nf6
9.O-O O-O
10.h3 Nd7
11.b3 Nc5
12.Bb2 f5
13.exf5 Bxf5
14.Rad1 Qa5
15.Rd2 Rf6
16.Nd5 Re6
17.Qf4 Ne4
18.Bxg7 Kxg7
19.Rb2 Nc3
20.Nd4 Re5

[TPTB_need_war]

2 votes Nxe2+ (newb4now, TPTB_need_war_)

My vote doesn't count because I am not officially on the Black team. I was just commenting.

[boolberry]

2 votes Nxe2+ (newb4now, TPTB_need_war_)

My vote doesn't count because I am not officially on the Black team. I was just commenting.

No problem. Your comments were interesting. In this case if I had voted before the deadline (based on your comment that your vote should be excluded) it still would have only led to a tie and not changed the outcome.

[ArticMine]

21. Bf3

[tifozi]

Nxe2+ would have been a horrible move for Team BBR with ..Nxe2 21. Nxe2 anything 22. Qg3 anything 23. Rd2 and pressure building in the right flank while leaving black queen in that precarious position with loss of material looming large and an eventual loss.

That was a good bullet dodged

I don't think white has squandered any advantage yet. The only novelty that was possible was on move 16 but that is in the past  

[8XMR]

21. Bf3

I agree this move 21.Bf3

[TPTB_need_war]

Nxe2+ would have been a horrible move for Team BBR with ..Nxe2 21. Nxe2 anything 22. Qg3 anything 23. Rd2

20. Nxe2 would have been check. So you say white follows with 21. Nxe2, then black follows with 22. Bd3, then what   White can't 23: Re2 because black can capture 24. Qxe2. If 24. queen on to light-square then Black can torment with Rook and Knight until the battle at xe2 is won.

[tifozi]

Nxe2+ would have been a horrible move for Team BBR with ..Nxe2 21. Nxe2 anything 22. Qg3 anything 23. Rd2

20. Nxe2 would have been check. So you say white follows with 21. Nxe2, then black follows with 22. Bd3, then what   White can't 23: Re2 because black can capture 24. Qxe2. If 24. queen on to light-square then Black can torment with Rook and Knight until the battle at xe2 is won.

20.Nd4 Nxe2
21.Nxe2 Bd3 (??)
22.b4 Qd8 (because Nxb4 would be loss of N and Qa4 would be met with Nec3 trapping the black queen in left flank)
23.Nd4 Re5 (best line of defence since Nxd4 would be met with Qxd4+ and subsequently Qxd3 taking the black bishop and an all out attack possible from move 24 hece the bad move notation ??)

If we had to get to Re5 as a defence it is far better to do it at move 20 (instead of Nxe2 and giving away a solid position). If you really have to do 20. Nd4 Nxe2, there are other defences possible after 21. Nxe2 but Bd3 is not it, in fact it simply gives the game to white in 4-5 moves.

Move 24 has ramifications in this theoretical position we are discussing, so I will not bring it up. Anyways we should probably play to the position now in interest of not derailing it.

[TPTB_need_war]

Nxe2+ would have been a horrible move for Team BBR with ..Nxe2 21. Nxe2 anything 22. Qg3 anything 23. Rd2

20. Nxe2 would have been check. So you say white follows with 21. Nxe2, then black follows with 22. Bd3, then what   White can't 23: Re2 because black can capture 24. Qxe2. If 24. queen on to light-square then Black can torment with Rook and Knight until the battle at xe2 is won.

20.Nd4 Nxe2
21.Nxe2 Bd3 (??)
22.b4 Qd8 (because Nxb4 would be loss of N and Qa4 would be met with Nec3 trapping the black queen in left flank)

22: b4 Qa3

Work it forward from there. White queen will have to pull back to Qc1 protect the Rook, then black Nd4.

Massive opportunity lost with Re5. Just as white lost a massive opportunity by waiting too long to move Bd3.

I only had about 5-10 minutes to study this game, so I might have a mistake. I am not using any computer, just in my head. I am not really exceptional at chess. Never studied any books on it. I think my talent lies more in the area of creativity than in calculating all the potential moves with a probabilistic logic.

[tifozi]

22: b4 Qa3

Work it forward from there. White queen will have to pull back to Qc1 protect the Rook, then black Nd4.

Not really. Qa3 is worse than Qa4 or Qd8(recommended for this line). The answer from white would be Rb3.

23. Rb3 Qxa2 or whatever
24. Nc1 Qc2
25. Rxd3 capturing the black bishop that was moved just couple of moves ago and with the caliber of players here, this is 1-0 at this point, no need to play further.

Bd3 is a blunder, period.

Massive opportunity lost with Re5. Just as white lost a massive opportunity by waiting too long to move Bd3.

Not really as shown above. This is headed toward 1/2- 1/2 with positional advantage to white at this point very slightly (51-49)

I only had about 5-10 minutes to study this game, so I might have a mistake. I am not using any computer, just in my head. I am not really exceptional at chess. Never studied any books on it. I think my talent lies more in the area of creativity than in calculating all the potential moves with a probabilistic logic.

Definitely helps to spend more time.

[XMRpromotions]

21. Bf3

I agree this move 21.Bf3

Bf3 (ArticMine, 8XMR, XMRpromotions)

[LucyLovesCrypto]

21. Bf3

I agree this move 21.Bf3

Bf3 (ArticMine, 8XMR, XMRpromotions)

21.b4

They will probably play Qa3 (because Nxe2+ Rxe2 is really good for us. After the queen moves we can trade on e5 then play Nxf5+)

21.b4 Qa3 22. Nxf5+ Rxf5 23.Qd2 is my plan

21.Bf3 (ArticMine, 8XMR, XMRpromotions)
21.b4 (LucyLovesCrypto)