[SDC] ShadowCash Uncensored: Zeuner, Zero Knowledge, Zero Trust. What Happened?

[Wheatclove]

All these questions (and more) have been raised in these last 10 pages.

No they haven't.

I've gone out of my way and wasted way too much time answering your questions. You have a nefarious agenda. You won't accept the answers given, and you won't ask the only people who would know some of the answers.

Dasource warned me that no matter how many questions of yours I answer, you will always either ignore the answer or pull some more shit out of your ass. He was right. The dev team sees through your shit. You once held the respect of this community and the devs.

Why the fuck are you still here? I believe you are only attempting to spread your conspiracy. You haven't uncovered any misconduct, you've only created it. The long time between updates during Q1 and Q2 2015 let your paranoia run rampant. You've been nonstop doubting your original opinion of the Shadow project. Now you're loosely spinning some very thin strings together so it all makes sense in your paranoid head.

This project means a lot more than a get-rich-quick-crypto-scheme to some of us. Calling it a scam is an insult. This has been a project that the original 9 devs have worked on for well over a year now. This is a project that opens it's arms to anyone that wants to get involved. I've received a few lessons from ryno himself. More and more people are joining the community, cracking open the source code and diving in. I've learned a fair amount of C++ because of my involvement with this project. I've helped uncover a few fairly significant bugs. This community stands together for the success of cryptocurrencies. They admire the accomplishments of other projects, and attempt to save others from the projects of known scammers.

You've gone from shill to troll in less than a year. You've chosen the two extremes of behavior in crypto that will never contribute anything positive to the community. You could have learned something and become a contributor, but you didn't.

You want this project to be a scam with all of your being, but it will never become that.

I'm done with this thread, I will no longer enable this behavior of yours.

[1714846823]

1714846823

[1714846823]

1714846823

[sickandtired]

All these questions (and more) have been raised in these last 10 pages.

No they haven't.

I've gone out of my way and wasted way too much time answering your questions. You have a nefarious agenda. You won't accept the answers given, and you won't ask the only people who would know some of the answers.

Dasource warned me that no matter how many questions of yours I answer, you will always either ignore the answer or pull some more shit out of your ass. He was right. The dev team sees through your shit. You once held the respect of this community and the devs.

Why the fuck are you still here? I believe you are only attempting to spread your conspiracy. You haven't uncovered any misconduct, you've only created it. The long time between updates during Q1 and Q2 2015 let your paranoia run rampant. You've been nonstop doubting your original opinion of the Shadow project. Now you're loosely spinning some very thin strings together so it all makes sense in your paranoid head.

This project means a lot more than a get-rich-quick-crypto-scheme to some of us. Calling it a scam is an insult. This has been a project that the original 9 devs have worked on for well over a year now. This is a project that opens it's arms to anyone that wants to get involved. I've received a few lessons from ryno himself. More and more people are joining the community, cracking open the source code and diving in. I've learned a fair amount of C++ because of my involvement with this project. I've helped uncover a few fairly significant bugs. This community stands together for the success of cryptocurrencies. They admire the accomplishments of other projects, and attempt to save others from the projects of known scammers.

You've gone from shill to troll in less than a year. You've chosen the two extremes of behavior in crypto that will never contribute anything positive to the community. You could have learned something and become a contributor, but you didn't.

You want this project to be a scam with all of your being, but it will never become that.

I'm done with this thread, I will no longer enable this behavior of yours.

If it walk like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what.. it is a duck, no matter how much you chill or try to hide all the shady things behind it.

[BaxterJames]

"facepalm"

[child_harold]

All these questions (and more) have been raised in these last 10 pages.

No they haven't.

I've gone out of my way and wasted way too much time answering your questions. You have a nefarious agenda. You won't accept the answers given, and you won't ask the only people who would know some of the answers.

Dasource warned me that no matter how many questions of yours I answer, you will always either ignore the answer or pull some more shit out of your ass. He was right. The dev team sees through your shit. You once held the respect of this community and the devs.

Why the fuck are you still here? I believe you are only attempting to spread your conspiracy. You haven't uncovered any misconduct, you've only created it. The long time between updates during Q1 and Q2 2015 let your paranoia run rampant. You've been nonstop doubting your original opinion of the Shadow project. Now you're loosely spinning some very thin strings together so it all makes sense in your paranoid head.

This project means a lot more than a get-rich-quick-crypto-scheme to some of us. Calling it a scam is an insult. This has been a project that the original 9 devs have worked on for well over a year now. This is a project that opens it's arms to anyone that wants to get involved. I've received a few lessons from ryno himself. More and more people are joining the community, cracking open the source code and diving in. I've learned a fair amount of C++ because of my involvement with this project. I've helped uncover a few fairly significant bugs. This community stands together for the success of cryptocurrencies. They admire the accomplishments of other projects, and attempt to save others from the projects of known scammers.

You've gone from shill to troll in less than a year. You've chosen the two extremes of behavior in crypto that will never contribute anything positive to the community. You could have learned something and become a contributor, but you didn't.

You want this project to be a scam with all of your being, but it will never become that.

I'm done with this thread, I will no longer enable this behavior of yours.

Every time I ask a question I offer an opportunity for somebody to respond and clarify and strengthen Shadow. By attacking me personally and being opaque you do the opposite.

These questions have not been answered. I will write them as clearly as i can:


1. How does Rynomaster feel about what happened at Cinnicoin and can he and others see how quietly launching Shadowcoin amidst the chaotic collapse of the CINNi project (which he had hitherto been associated with) could be perceived as ill-advised?

2. Where is the evidence of the vote that allegedly took place to reduce the SDC emission only a few days after launch?

3. Where is the evidence of the community vote that allegedly took place to abandon the Zeuner Review in favour of market development? (I was actually in the community at that time and have no recollection of any vote taking place)

4. Will the Team make arrangements to have the donors of the review refunded?

5. Shadow Team member dasource was always insistent that Shadowsendv2 is not Cryptonote. Why? Is it not the case that any differences which may exist  are far outweighed by the significant similarities which have already been identified?

[systh]

1. How does Rynomaster feel about what happened at Cinnicoin and can he and others see how quietly launching Shadowcoin amidst the chaotic collapse of the CINNi project (which he had hitherto been associated with) could be perceived as ill-advised?

See this post, which was posted in this thread (yet another example of how do you accept given answers?):

Statement from the Cinnicoin developer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8513020#msg8513020

Previous Cinnicoin community/project manager also clearing up the FUD:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8506287#msg8506287

You're researching poorly, connecting dots that don't exist and then making accusations instead of asking questions. This whole thread seems designed to attack SDC rather than find out answers. I'm a bit disappointed. When you said you'd create your own thread I was looking forward to reading an interesting debate about shadowcash.

You can clearly see ryno's role in Cinni project. Cinni ≠ Shadow, the only link there is Ryno with some contracted work he agreed to do and apparently did. Blaming Shadow for Cinni's fall doesn't make sense.
I don't know nothing about Cinni, I'm not Ryno and I don't want to speak on his behalf. But this has been said by others.


(..)

4. Will the Team make arrangements to have the donors of the review refunded?

Don't see any reason why they should.

You certainly heard that you should invest only what you can lose. Donations are ever "worse", you're simply giving money away.
I understand that you're mad and you want your 0.3 BTC back; moreover now, when it's worth about 2× more. But hey, I donated the same amount, I counted with the possibility of BTC going up and I'm not pissed. You should've thought about it as well.

[child_harold]

1. How does Rynomaster feel about what happened at Cinnicoin and can he and others see how quietly launching Shadowcoin amidst the chaotic collapse of the CINNi project (which he had hitherto been associated with) could be perceived as ill-advised?

See this post, which was posted in this thread (yet another example of how do you accept given answers?):

Statement from the Cinnicoin developer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8513020#msg8513020

Previous Cinnicoin community/project manager also clearing up the FUD:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8506287#msg8506287

You're researching poorly, connecting dots that don't exist and then making accusations instead of asking questions. This whole thread seems designed to attack SDC rather than find out answers. I'm a bit disappointed. When you said you'd create your own thread I was looking forward to reading an interesting debate about shadowcash.

You can clearly see ryno's role in Cinni project. Cinni ≠ Shadow, the only link there is Ryno with some contracted work he agreed to do and apparently did. Blaming Shadow for Cinni's fall doesn't make sense.
I don't know nothing about Cinni, I'm not Ryno and I don't want to speak on his behalf. But this has been said by others.


(..)

I am quite aware of these atempts to "clear things up". I could quote a plethora of CINNI posts where community members express dismay, anger and confusion. Rather than that let us try and establish how they might have been angered. Start by redaing this Digital Money Times story dated June 10 2014 (5 weeks before the release of Shadowcoin), "CinniCoin’s New Team Member, New Encrypted Messaging Demo Video”
http://digitalmoneytimes.com/cinnicoins-new-team-member-new-encrypted-messaging-demo-video/

The additional CinniCoin developer is called Rynomster, who is one of the two extra coders CINNI hired a while back to help them with the encrypted messaging system. Because Rynomster is very impressed with the way CINNI carries itself, he expressed his desire to be an internal part of the team from now on.

Rynomster is the lead coder for not only the encrypted messaging system, but also the anonymity transfer system and mobile platforms. Having over 7 years of experience in the IT industry, and experience in the finance sector as an R&D developer, he will make an excellent addition to the CinniCoin team.
For more information about Rynomster’s qualifications, click here.

The here at the end of the quote links to this BCT post by battbot:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg7235155#msg7235155

So, without further adieu, I would like to welcome a new addition to the Cinni Dev team -- Rynomster!  Let us all give him a warm welcome to the team!

I say again that this article was released 5 weeks before the launch of shadowcoin which rynomster did not put his name to till many days after launch. Shadowcoin's first feature (3 weeks or so after launch) was  also the EM system and the "anonymity transfer system" later bacame Shadowsend (where is technovert in all this btw?). Ryno's voice can also be heard narrating the demo vid linked in the article.

Under these circumstances it is easy to understand why CINNI community members might have been furious. What followed (esp after Cinni's new wallet released by ryno on June 24 2015) appears to have been a horrible pump and dump followed by the exit of Ryno, battbot and others. Even if Ryno is not directly responsible for this sequence of events it is hard to imagine how one walks away from that with clean hands. Battbot was an early SDC investor as was Schild_ who appears to have been shilling pretty damn hard in the Cinni thread during early July’s collapse. All-in-all very dodgy and undoubtedly a scam. SDC was launched not by BCT account rynomster but rather sdcoin (as anticipated in one of the links below). The below links from the Cinni thread (early July 2014) are included to flesh out this summation of these most ugly events.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg7895206#msg7895206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg7868400#msg7868400
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg7786121#msg7786121
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg7763150#msg7763150

And this post where battbot’s attempts to clear ryno’s name over a month later on August 24th are met by an angry cinnicoin member with many links of his own.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573232.msg8506662#msg8506662

So I ask again: How does Rynomaster feel about what happened at Cinnicoin and can he and others see how quietly launching Shadowcoin amidst the chaotic collapse of the CINNi project (which he had hitherto been associated with) could be perceived as ill-advised?

[BaxterJames]

1. I'll use a real world example, lets say I work at a restaurant as a server, I quit my job and start a new restaurant as a manager.  Anything wrong with that? Nope, though people at the old place might be salty, sure.  Also, just because Cinni folded doesn't mean it was a scam, in this industry even the legit projects are susceptible to huge price spikes (remember December 2013?)

2 & 3 Ok I answered your question about the votes, the answer is there were none, and that the team was not obligated to have one in either cutting POW short or in skipping the review.  Perhaps you missed my earlier post? And to be honest I have never heard anyone but you talk about a vote, it feels like you're just making shit up.

4. With the way you've been acting, I don't think they care enough to refund you.  You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

5. Dasource says that ShadowSend V2 is not Cryptonote because they coded it from the ground up, they didn't copy and paste anything from cryptonote and he wanted to get that point across, if you want to argue that it ripped off cryptonote, you might as well argue all cars are a ripoff of the Model T.  Also would like to reiterate that the cryptonote whitepaper was referenced in the Shadowsend whitepaper.

If you want to argue back any of these points be my guest, but don't ignore me and act like no one ever answered.

[smooth]

5. Dasource says that ShadowSend V2 is not Cryptonote because they coded it from the ground up, they didn't copy and paste anything from cryptonote and he wanted to get that point across, if you want to argue that it ripped off cryptonote, you might as well argue all cars are a ripoff of the Model T.  Also would like to reiterate that the cryptonote whitepaper was referenced in the Shadowsend whitepaper.

Sorry but that doesn't fly. If you take the blueprints (i.e. whitepaper) for a Model T, tweak a part or two, and then build your "new" BaxterCar in a different factory, then yes it is still a rip off of the Model T.

Including a reference in a whitepaper is not good enough; the proper way to cite a reference and avoid plagiarism is by indicating which particular portion of the document is derived from the reference. But in this case that was not done and can not be done because it is virtually the entire document. Interestingly, the other references in that whitepaper are indeed cited (most of them at least). For some "odd" reason, the cryptonote reference is never cited in the text.

Nobody has ever claimed that the code was copied. What is copied is the design and cryptography. It better be, by the way, because the shadowsend white paper contains no security proofs. So tell me this about shadowsend: Is the design identical such that the security proofs in the cryptonote white paper apply, or is it insecure?

[Diplo]

CH - why does it really matter? All the Cinni stuff, the donation, etc. I skimmed this thread before getting to this point and, I have to say, I really question why you're so wound up about it all? If you don't like the project or you got burned on it earlier in the year, then walk away. I'm a professional asset manager and trader in many different non-crypto markets and i've never seen someone get so obsessed with attacking a company/investment or project like this--especially one with such a small market cap. There's not way you lost an 'impactful' amount of money on this in the last year, cause trust me, the liquidity in this is negligible.

The other mind boggling part about all this is the fact it's an open source project, if you have questions, go check it yourself.  If you can't understand it, then invest with caution, it's that simple. These guys owe you nothing, they're not regulated by the SEC or CFTC or even the BBB, your choice to participate or not participate fully rests on your judgement alone.  In my industry if something doesn't make sense to me, be it a company, project, or currency, you move on.  You'll go broke and insane trying to fight any person or group that upsets you when you're trying to determine where to invest your money.

If this realm isn't your cup of tea, as it seems, then I invite you to spend the remainder of your resources and come play in the equities market--on behalf of myself and fellow traders we look forward to your future "donations." 

[sickandtired]

1. I'll use a real world example, lets say I work at a restaurant as a server, I quit my job and start a new restaurant as a manager.  Anything wrong with that? Nope, though people at the old place might be salty, sure.  Also, just because Cinni folded doesn't mean it was a scam, in this industry even the legit projects are susceptible to huge price spikes (remember December 2013?)

To make a proper comparison it would be the same if:

You sold restaurant shares hyping how much you love the restaurant and how you are amazed by it and plan to attend it directly the coming years, then after your shares were sold, you got a "family issue" and just leave the restaurant, which turns into a shithole in return, 2 weeks later we find you opened a new restaurant and now you have previous restaurant shares to support your own.

Changing jobs is no issue, everyone is allowed to do that, what cant go on is all the trickery and scams used by this same people.
Karma is a bitch, is only normal that it will end up biting them in the ass.

[child_harold]

1. I'll use a real world example, lets say I work at a restaurant as a server, I quit my job and start a new restaurant as a manager.  Anything wrong with that? Nope, though people at the old place might be salty, sure.  Also, just because Cinni folded doesn't mean it was a scam, in this industry even the legit projects are susceptible to huge price spikes (remember December 2013?)

2 & 3 Ok I answered your question about the votes, the answer is there were none, and that the team was not obligated to have one in either cutting POW short or in skipping the review.  Perhaps you missed my earlier post? And to be honest I have never heard anyone but you talk about a vote, it feels like you're just making shit up.

4. With the way you've been acting, I don't think they care enough to refund you.  You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

5. Dasource says that ShadowSend V2 is not Cryptonote because they coded it from the ground up, they didn't copy and paste anything from cryptonote and he wanted to get that point across, if you want to argue that it ripped off cryptonote, you might as well argue all cars are a ripoff of the Model T.  Also would like to reiterate that the cryptonote whitepaper was referenced in the Shadowsend whitepaper.

If you want to argue back any of these points be my guest, but don't ignore me and act like no one ever answered.

Dear Mr. BaxterJames,

Thank you for your replies. 1. is a ludicrous simile. 2. can be accepted, but 3. is beyond reason and memory, 4. is predictable and perhaps even criminal (at least in any conventional business sense) and 5. has been dealt with by smooth (thanks)

Fuck it. I'm calling it… in lieu of any good answers or any basic sense of decency or simply the notion that life is too short…



Shadowcash is a scam.


Come forth Rynomster
Step up man!
Speak or forever hold your peace.

[child_harold]

Bring me battbot…

[sickandtired]

Bring me battbot…


https://i.imgur.com/FznUpcQ.gif

You wont get an answer from them, I hear from a good source Ryno is already working for DarkSilk under a new identity.

[child_harold]

Bitmessage, ShadowChat and Plagiarism
aka Three of a Kind & Calling a Bluff

Three white papers. Spot the difference.


Bitmessage
https://bitmessage.org/bitmessage.pdf
https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Encryption





Cinnicoin EM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10793660/wp.pdf





ShadowChat
http://www.shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcoin-p2p-em.pdf









This post serves to demonstrate CINNI's and SDC's outrageous word-for-word plagiarism of Bitmessage. Much like Shadowsend copies the maths from Monero/Crytponote (without proper attribution) so does Shadowchat copy its maths from Bitmessage without proper attribution. If CINNI and SDC had said "we are implementing bitmessage" and correctly cited it in their whitpapers there might be no problem.

So Ryno and the CINNI Team produced the Cinni EM (bitmessage clone) which is identical to ShdowChat. So two identical EM's were released within weeks of eachother. Sufficed to say the citations of references make no sense in the CINNI and SDC papers and one must read the Bitmessage paper to understand their inclusion. The existence of teh Cinni and SDC "whitepapers" insult the efforts and achievement of the Bitmessage paper they flagrantly copied.

At the very least the CINNI paper mentions bitmessage in the main body of the paper. The Shadowchat paper (as with shadow docs on github) actually omits this part and makes no mention of bitmessage at all in the main body of the paper, meaning the SDC paper is even shadier than Cinni's.

From the Cinni paper:


Although I'd have to ask: "Very similar" or identical?

This is an appalling, shameless and unforgivable act of plagiarism.
Does anybody disagree?

Perhaps rynomster who authored both Cinni's EM and ShadowChat would like to comment?
Please correct me if I have misinterpreted the documents I have scrutinized. Thank you.

[child_harold]

^No comments from the Shadow team or community? Hmm

[benthach]

what's happening to this shadowtrash? they're rushing out a scam coin with broken wallet and broken blockchain. they deleted all the credentials, everything other coders have done and claimed their own, stealthaddress, private message, private transaction, you name it. i bet you can't still syncing the wallet from start to end. LOL

[SLievensDRKSLK]

I have just read this entire thread.

I don't have a clue about ShadowCash etc.

All I know is I crossed paths with Rynomster simply by being a cryptographic developer, have known him for about a year, never had an issue with him personally and asked him to sort our gitian files out for DarkSilk.

That is why you see commits in my personal repo from him.

He isn't a part of the team, he just helped me out for a few hours as we get on.

I hope that solves your questions about his involvement with DarkSilk.

[child_harold]

I have just read this entire thread.

I don't have a clue about ShadowCash etc.

All I know is I crossed paths with Rynomster simply by being a cryptographic developer, have known him for about a year, never had an issue with him personally and asked him to sort our gitian files out for DarkSilk.

That is why you see commits in my personal repo from him.

He isn't a part of the team, he just helped me out for a few hours as we get on.

I hope that solves your questions about his involvement with DarkSilk.

Nice of you to drop by.

You’ve known Ryno for a year but have no clue about ShadowCash? Seems a little odd.
Although now you’ve read this whole thread… so you know more.

I can see you’re writing a whitepaper for DarkSilk and published some teaser thumbnails in your thread recently. I can see 16 pages with 2 pages of references, although the content of those pages is impossible to read (intentionally on your part). However I can see you have no less than 50 references listed at the end of your paper.

Are you in a position to assure your community that you have correctly cited these references in the body of your paper and not blatantly plagiarised from others as it would appear is almost certainly the case with Rynomster’s ShadowChat paper [1]?

If you do not feel the ShadowChat paper is a wholesale rip-off of the Bitmessage paper [2] and is utterly redundant* than please explain why.

Thanks.



[1] ShadowChat paper, 2014 http://www.shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcoin-p2p-em.pdf
[2] Bitmessage paper, 2012 https://bitmessage.org/bitmessage.pdf

* You cannot copy somebody's work without attribution , add a reference to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, re-publish it under your own name and then pretend you've actually accomplished something of worth!

[SLievensDRKSLK]

I have just read this entire thread.

I don't have a clue about ShadowCash etc.

All I know is I crossed paths with Rynomster simply by being a cryptographic developer, have known him for about a year, never had an issue with him personally and asked him to sort our gitian files out for DarkSilk.

That is why you see commits in my personal repo from him.

He isn't a part of the team, he just helped me out for a few hours as we get on.

I hope that solves your questions about his involvement with DarkSilk.

Nice of you to drop by.

You’ve known Ryno for a year but have no clue about ShadowCash? Seems a little odd.
Although now you’ve read this whole thread… so you know more.

I can see you’re writing a whitepaper for DarkSilk and published some teaser thumbnails in your thread recently. I can see 16 pages with 2 pages of references, although the content of those pages is impossible to read (intentionally on your part). However I can see you have no less than 50 references listed at the end of your paper.

Are you in a position to assure your community that you have correctly cited these references in the body of your paper and not blatantly plagiarised from others as it would appear is almost certainly the case with Rynomster’s ShadowChat paper [1]?

If you do not feel the ShadowChat paper is a wholesale rip-off of the Bitmessage paper [2] and is utterly redundant* than please explain why.

Thanks.



[1] ShadowChat paper, 2014 http://www.shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcoin-p2p-em.pdf
[2] Bitmessage paper, 2012 https://bitmessage.org/bitmessage.pdf

* You cannot copy somebody's work without attribution , add a reference to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, re-publish it under your own name and then pretend you've actually accomplished something of worth!

If this is the case, thank you for bringing this to my attention and I will be looking at the bitmessage.pdf and correcting references i may of used that Rynomster may of not cited correctly.

When I said I didn't know about Shadowcash etc, what I meant was the whole Rynomster ordeal with Shadowcash and the accusations etc.

Also do not start attacking me or my community, I have simply done a search for DarkSilk in Bitcointalk to see what is happening in the forum and what has been said, I see a result here, visit, read the whole thread and reply to assure you guys he has no involvement with DarkSilk, nothing more.

[SLievensDRKSLK]

Certainly crossovers though:

BitMessage - "We propose that nodes store all objects for two days"

ShadowChat - 48 Hours

"streams" *cough* buckets