[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]

[ThickAsThieves]

You are welcome to push your ASICMINER-PT shares to my account on BTCT.co, TATInvestments, where I can convert them to AM1 shares on Havelock.
See https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1 for full details and instructions.

There are no management fees on dividends for AM1 and Havelock has low trade fees as well.

PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS UNTIL AFTER THIS WEEK'S DIVIDENDS. ALSO DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO EXPORT TO DIRECT SHARES FASTER (IT WILL NOT BE FASTER, IF YOU INTEND TO HOLD DIRECT SHARES, JUST WAIT FOR BURNSIDE TO DO THEM).

Havelock only charges .4% trade fees on Sales, there is no fee to Buy, nor any fees to have an account.

[Lohoris]

I think MPOE-PR was talking about the fee to get your asset listed, not the transaction fees...

Ah ok, well that would be far easier because 35 * 5 = 175 bitcoin. I am sure thats possible to refund.

Obviously those fees have already been distributed as dividends.

[romerun]

what nationalities are behind haveluck and bitfunder ? and where are they operating ?

[ThickAsThieves]

what nationalities are behind haveluck and bitfunder ? and where are they operating ?

Bitfunder is operated from the USA, but I think the business is registered in another country (I forget which).

Havelock is owned and operated in Canada.

[Loozik]

I think the safest jurisdiction for an undertaking like a cryptostock exchange would be Russia.

[gyverlb]

Picostocks is incorporated in the Marshall Islands. These are reputed for being a safe harbor but I'm not sure of the details (I'd welcome them though).

Last time I looked it was not difficult to create new stocks but picostocks don't advertise this.

Some people (at least tytus) involved in the creation of Picostocks are also involved in the 100/200 TH/s mine so competing mines may want to avoid it to avoid any conflict of interest.

[velacreations]

Can the manual withdraw limited please be increased and/or lifted?

Also, please remove the "fee reserve"

[phungus]

BitVPS is very disappointed in how this situation was handled.

As one of the few 'real' listings on the exchange (real as in, we are a viable, BTC-making business that has been around for more than 2 years), it is sad to see our share prices tank just on the news of the exchange shutting down.

We *know* this could have been handled VERY differently to prevent the violent market reaction and knee-jerk selloffs of our securities.

We are still evaluating our options but have no finalized plans for our listing. We hope that we can make good on our original promises to our investors. We feel like we've been working hard to protect the interests of our shareholders and to see our share price tank so hard is very disappointing, to say the least.

The good news is that it's a buyer's market and we are taking advantage of this! :-)

We have no plans on going anywhere at the moment and will figure out a way forward.


Thanks,
-phungus

[Lohoris]

Can the manual withdraw limited please be increased and/or lifted?

+1

[rini17]

We are offering help to fellow issuers who need input from the shareholders. For example here we ask them which BitFunder account should be used to transfer the IDIFF shares to:

https://coinbr.com/btct/idiff_1

We can do similar thing for your asset. How it works:

1. shareholder will fill the form
2. they will authenticate themselves using bitcoin public address from their BTCT profile (hence, no Google Authenticator problems)
3. they will obtain GPG-signed confirmation to be used in resolving any trouble
4. you will get reliable CSV output what to do with the shares.

No worry about shareholders authentication and data collection for the issuer.

PM me or email to info@coinbr.com.

[burnside]

We *know* this could have been handled VERY differently to prevent the violent market reaction and knee-jerk selloffs of our securities.

It will probably be a while before we can share the complete picture.  For the sake of the here and now, let's just assume that I did everything I could to protect everyone's interests.  (I did and I am continuing to do so.)

Still, I am curious as to how you would improve on the process.  I'm sure sooner or later there will be other exchanges that will benefit from lessons learned here.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Can the manual withdraw limited please be increased and/or lifted?

+1

Not without putting all the cold wallet funds in the hot wallet.

The last thing we need right now is a site hack to turn into a "everyone's coins are stolen" kind of story.  It'd fit right in with the typical big bitcoin site shutdown mantra, but I guarantee that if it did actually happen, no one would believe me anyway, so...

Let's not do that. 

[SaltySpitoon]

Burnside, can you tell us if you are in legal trouble? Or is it just possible legal trouble?

[burnside]

Can the manual withdraw limited please be increased and/or lifted?

Also, please remove the "fee reserve"

I've explained many times why the fee reserve is setup like it is.  Here goes again:

We have people that deposit lots of dust.  (I'm guessing it's mining proceeds)

That dust, when used as inputs on withdrawals triggers crazy fees.

If I let you withdraw down to zero, then a fee is charged, your account goes negative, at the expense of other users.  In the first several months of site operation the site had tons of accounts go negative, which then had to be repaired at the sites expense.

So... instead of the site charging a withdrawal fee for every withdrawal, which would have been easy to do, we setup the fee reserve.  You essentially pay once for all your withdrawals.  This is an incredibly fair system when compared to sites like btc-e.com where you pay a 0.01 BTC fee on every withdrawal.

Now... if I go through and try to push those reserves out to people, as I anticipate some people demanding, we are going to be right back where we started.  A bunch of negative accounts at the expense of the other accounts.  I'm not ok with that.

The best possible answer to this would be to import the wallet into a new bitcoind that has a lower fee.  Then we could reduce (but not eliminate) the fee reserve.  This is not something I'm willing to do right now.  It'd require a shutdown of the site for several hours.

Ultimately I may not end up having time to replace out the bitcoind (it's a lot of work, the site's bitcoind has a lot of custom tweaks) and you may have to treat that 0.0025 like it was a withdrawal fee.  That still beats the socks off what some other sites charge.

Cheers.

[burnside]

Burnside, can you tell us if you are in legal trouble? Or is it just possible legal trouble?

Things are pretty ugly for me right now.

I don't think I can comment beyond that.

[SaltySpitoon]

Things are pretty ugly for me right now.

I don't think I can comment beyond that.

Well that blows. The shut down dates and deadlines that you have listed, those are firm right? You don't have to say any more, someone or other is telling you to shut down. But you are sure they will honor your complete shutdown by the end of october correct? Its not going to be forcibly shut down half way through October leaving those that are working on plans based on the deadlines you gave high and dry?

Obviously you can't see the future, but I'm asking if your current understanding is that the dates are as correct as you could possibly know. And to clarify in case I'm rambling, Where you say on October 7th, all trading will be stopped, and on the 31st the site will be taken offline, those dates will be honored by whoever is shutting you down?

Also, what everyone is else is asking, have you any plans on compensating btct/litecoinglobal share holders and asset listers at this time?

[burnside]

Picostocks is incorporated in the Marshall Islands. These are reputed for being a safe harbor but I'm not sure of the details (I'd welcome them though).

Last time I looked it was not difficult to create new stocks but picostocks don't advertise this.

Some people (at least tytus) involved in the creation of Picostocks are also involved in the 100/200 TH/s mine so competing mines may want to avoid it to avoid any conflict of interest.

I don't know where the picostocks guys live, but I'd focus more on where they live than where the company is incorporated.

My understanding is that the offshore incorporation is a tax tool, not a get out of jail tool.  BTC Trading Corp being in Belize had nothing to do with trying to dodge local (local to me) regulatory issues, it was about reducing paperwork and keeping the corporate taxes nice and simple.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal nor tax advice.

[MPOE-PR]

Maybe not the exact words but that was pretty much the spirit. Even with these terms, as far as I know, the btctc seems to have been operated very honestly and ethically. You disagree, go invest in NYSE.

Putting a clause up about how you're not what you pretend to be while representing to the userbase that you are in fact that thing while accepting fees for the use of this disaster and within a few months shutting down wouldn't seem at all "honest" or "ethical". You might want to explain how that's supposed to work.

And pretending that the NYSE is the only operation that doesn't lie through its teeth is about as devoid of honesty.

[burnside]

Things are pretty ugly for me right now.

I don't think I can comment beyond that.

Well that blows. The shut down dates and deadlines that you have listed, those are firm right? You don't have to say any more, someone or other is telling you to shut down. But you are sure they will honor your complete shutdown by the end of october correct? Its not going to be forcibly shut down half way through October leaving those that are working on plans based on the deadlines you gave high and dry?

Obviously you can't see the future, but I'm asking if your current understanding is that the dates are as correct as you could possibly know. And to clarify in case I'm rambling, Where you say on October 7th, all trading will be stopped, and on the 31st the site will be taken offline, those dates will be honored by whoever is shutting you down?

Also, what everyone is else is asking, have you any plans on compensating btct/litecoinglobal share holders and asset listers at this time?

I can't make any guarantees, but at this time I have no reason to believe the shutdown will be interrupted.

I personally have relatively little to compensate them with.  (as mentioned in the last financial report, I have been funneling personal funds back to the company for legal fees)  As Deprived (I think it was Deprived?) pointed out earlier, the vast majority were sold in 2012 at prices far, far lower than what they have traded for since then.  The valuations of LTC-GLOBAL were very high and that really was out of my control.  I was trying to do a good job as the operator and the price seemed to reflect that, but I wasn't cashing in on it, so to speak.  I believed that there were better days ahead and now am seeing all my value (a year of sleepless nights, blood, sweat, & tears) wiped out as well.

[keeron]

Can't find this answered ... What's "secondary market trading" as far as btct goes?

The context is "October 7, 2013, all forms of secondary market trading will be halted on both sites." from Burnside's statement on the closing.

My understanding is this is essentially all the trading (including transfers from users?).