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Author Topic: [BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]  (Read 315984 times)
Puppet
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September 23, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
Last edit: September 23, 2013, 12:23:51 PM by Puppet
 #2241

Well we don't know how far it will get him, his case is just getting started.

There has already been a ruling which is more relevant to the current situation than whether or not pirate misled its investors and ran a ponzi (that is what is yet to be proven, but no one seriously doubts the outcome):

Shavers argues that the BTCST investments are not securities because Bitcoin is not money, and is not part of anything regulated by the United States
So Shavers essentially tried to say that Bitcoin is a bauble and that he was taking in digital points and giving out digital points that had no real world value. The prosecutors at the SEC disagree, arguing that Bitcoins “are both investment contracts and notes, and, thus, are securities.”
..
the judge sided with the SEC, giving Bitcoin his stamp of approval as real world money.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/08/07/federal-judge-rules-bitcoin-is-real-money/

Thats your "EVE defense" shot down right there in a legal precedent.  If that applies to BTCST, I dont really see how you think its not going to apply to all the other instruments on BF/BTCT.

I havent read such a ruling yet about EVE, but I wouldnt even bet that we never will.

Quote
BF isn't even in the US.  What is it with people who think the SEC has global authority?

Does it matter where the site is hosted, where the operator lives, or where the business is being conducted? Similar regulations exist all over the world too.
Moreover, many of the asset issuers are in the US.
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September 23, 2013, 11:53:03 AM
 #2242

Hey guys, how about we stop all the hating and insulting in this thread already?
Ethan is a nice guy, he has been very reliable and trustworthy, and he still is.  He's just doing his best dealing with the extreme circumstances beyond his control.  If he wanted to rip you off or anything, he would already do so long ago.  Your panicking, hating and insulting don't contribute anything positive to the situation.  So please be patient and STFU, would you?  KTHX

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries?  I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

Indeed, the shrill finger pointing and hand-waving is incredibly childish. No doubt they've invested more than they can afford to lose, and now they're looking to lash out and blame anyone but themselves.

I reckon the reason for not selling may be a legal one, he may have been ordered to close down the site, and that being the case there is no way he can simply sell it. I think there is a lot of things going on that we aren't aware of just yet (or perhaps we never will). Luckily all the information is available so that the shares can be traded on other sites.

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September 23, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
 #2243

Are people forgetting the reaction here when burnside suggested that he may wind down his site for US participant?  This was right after the Pirateat40 charges hit the news.  Everyone raged against him, called him a FUDster, didn't bother reading between the lines, and quickly forgot that shit ever happened.
GG.
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September 23, 2013, 12:05:15 PM
 #2244

I'd recommend re-locking trades until each asset issuer has posted a response on each exchange for the shareholders. That will protect us 2 ways.

1. By stopping the "cashing out" by uninformed shareholders that are not seasoned to what is going to take a long time to sort out and will be different for each asset issuer.

2. To not artificially reduce a 7-day average or 30-day average by all the "cashing out" shareholders. Most assets listed have buy back clauses tied to a 7-day or 30-day average. By opening up trading we are just hurting our chances at realistic buy back valuation if asset issuers decide to stop the asset and buy back.

Trading should be halted for these 2 reasons for protection of the shareholders.
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September 23, 2013, 12:10:23 PM
 #2245

Weird, I was about to buy the Neobee passthru yesterday but somehow my fingers loaded Bitfunder.com - well bummer. All the best to Ethan.

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September 23, 2013, 12:13:04 PM
 #2246

I'd recommend re-locking trades until each asset issuer has posted a response on each exchange for the shareholders. That will protect us 2 ways.

1. By stopping the "cashing out" by uninformed shareholders that are not seasoned to what is going to take a long time to sort out and will be different for each asset issuer.

2. To not artificially reduce a 7-day average or 30-day average by all the "cashing out" shareholders. Most assets listed have buy back clauses tied to a 7-day or 30-day average. By opening up trading we are just hurting our chances at realistic buy back valuation if asset issuers decide to stop the asset and buy back.

Trading should be halted for these 2 reasons for protection of the shareholders.

+1. This should have been what was done, in my opinion.

As far as the hate goes, it's really unnecessary. I have no problem believing that Burnside isn't making a profit by the shutdown process - like most of us, he's profited by investing in stocks like AM. Ethan has been straightforward and honest. While I can't agree with every decision made, it's still a pleasure dealing with someone who clearly cares about the community.

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September 23, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
 #2247

TAT shares should be no problem to transfer to another platform right?
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September 23, 2013, 12:23:38 PM
 #2248

Someone should do this, or apply to rent some office space there.

Paypal founder invests in floating island utopia
Peter Thiel, the billionaire Paypal founder and venture capitalist, has invested in a plan to create a floating island utopia that is not governed by the rules of any country.

source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8721536/Paypal-founder-invests-in-floating-island-utopia.html


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September 23, 2013, 12:40:33 PM
 #2249

"The GLBSE fiasco WILL NOT BE REPEATED HERE."

amlt.coinfirm.io - The token of compliance by Coinfirm
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September 23, 2013, 12:50:06 PM
 #2250

Quote
I reckon the reason for not selling may be a legal one, he may have been ordered to close down the site, and that being the case there is no way he can simply sell it. I think there is a lot of things going on that we aren't aware of just yet (or perhaps we never will). Luckily all the information is available so that the shares can be traded on other sites.

So what is my choices for a new stock exchange?

Windows 10, R280x * 3
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September 23, 2013, 12:51:32 PM
 #2251

Quote
I reckon the reason for not selling may be a legal one, he may have been ordered to close down the site, and that being the case there is no way he can simply sell it. I think there is a lot of things going on that we aren't aware of just yet (or perhaps we never will). Luckily all the information is available so that the shares can be traded on other sites.

So what is my choices for a new stock exchange?


BitFunder and Havelock.
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September 23, 2013, 12:52:11 PM
 #2252

"I dreamed a dream" - Morpheus. RIP BTCT it was good while it lasted.
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September 23, 2013, 12:55:23 PM
 #2253

I would encourage those who are attacking Burnside with anger to turn their attention to the "regulators" that are apparently threatening to bring force into a situation that is peaceful and consensual. It's hard to do this because we don't know exactly who they are. We do know that they feel they can't compete in a free market unlike Burnside who eagerly endeavored to do so. They feel they must threaten force to maintain their position instead of enticing people to cooperate as Burnside has. For this reason I wish the best for Burnside and the worst for the aggressors.

We should take our emotions regarding this failure and channel them into a sustained effort to architect a better securities exchange system. Bitcoin has worked so well because the architecture was decentralized and Satoshi was anonymous. We need apply these principles to the development of a more resilient securities market.
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September 23, 2013, 12:56:52 PM
 #2254

I would encourage those who are attacking Burnside with anger to turn their attention to the "regulators" that are apparently threatening to bring force into a situation that is peaceful and consensual. It's hard to do this because we don't know exactly who they are. We do know that they feel they can't compete in a free market unlike Burnside who eagerly endeavored to do so. They feel they must threaten force to maintain their position instead of enticing people to cooperate as Burnside has. For this reason I wish the best for Burnside and the worst for the aggressors.

We should take our emotions regarding this failure and channel them into a sustained effort to architect a better securities exchange system. Bitcoin has worked so well because the architecture was decentralized and Satoshi was anonymous. We need apply these principles to the development of a more resilient securities market.

+1

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
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September 23, 2013, 12:57:42 PM
 #2255

I would encourage those who are attacking Burnside with anger to turn their attention to the "regulators" that are apparently threatening to bring force into a situation that is peaceful and consensual. It's hard to do this because we don't know exactly who they are. We do know that they feel they can't compete in a free market unlike Burnside who eagerly endeavored to do so. They feel they must threaten force to maintain their position instead of enticing people to cooperate as Burnside has. For this reason I wish the best for Burnside and the worst for the aggressors.

We should take our emotions regarding this failure and channel them into a sustained effort to architect a better securities exchange system. Bitcoin has worked so well because the architecture was decentralized and Satoshi was anonymous. We need apply these principles to the development of a more resilient securities market.

+1

+2
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September 23, 2013, 01:04:44 PM
 #2256

A notification has been posted to TAT.ASICMINER.  You have received this email
because you own shares of TAT.ASICMINER.

-----
Trading Halted in Preparation for Migration

Due to the announced closing of the BTCT.co virtual securities exchange, we have halted trading on this asset in preparation for a migration to TAT.ASICMINER on Bitfunder.com and/or AM100 on HavelockInvestments.com for all current shareholders.

We apologize for this inconvenience and appreciate your patience in this matter. We will be posting detailed instructions on the next steps for shareholders.

-----

Thank you for using BTC-TC
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September 23, 2013, 01:05:23 PM
 #2257

Colored Coin... We need you... We've gone through GLBSE and BTCT... We need you colored coins!

GEMINI ACCOUNT REVIEW - Source of Funds Request
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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye


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September 23, 2013, 01:05:54 PM
 #2258

Why would you lock the stocks again? If people want to cut their losses, they should be able to do so. NEOBEO is locked but thankfully I sold for a small loss early and use what was left to martingale back the loss so I'm back where I started and won't have to wait weeks for this shit to work itself out like other holders who now have no say in the matter.

NEOBEE has equivalent offerings on BitFunder and Havelock already. Why would you sell for a loss? The obvious solution is for TAT to allow all BTCT users to transfer their shares to one of the other exchanges, so there is no need to lose anything from this.

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
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September 23, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
 #2259

There will be no smooth transition, everyone will loss here

Burnside, just sell the site!

No, no Burnside will come out on top as he's still taking fees!!!
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September 23, 2013, 01:15:58 PM
 #2260

I find it interesting that the brunt of criticism for the situation is stemming from accounts created in the past 9 months...meaning they weren't around for the uproar that was GLBSE. Therefore, I understand their anger, but it's misplaced.
As was noted previously, focus your action and words against the regulators, not against someone who has worked their ass off making one of the best Bitcoin (and Litecoin) exchanges out there.

To those of you shocked by the recent turn of events, my suggestion is to peruse the 'Legal' subforum for a bit. It's quite clear none of you are understanding the risks you're taking when you go to invest your coins. Every Exchange (from Havelock, to BitFunder, to any other) is at risk of a shutdown or government intervention...they're just at varying degrees.

@Burnside -- It's been a long fight I bet. Best of luck, both in this situation and in any future endeavors!

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