Are you going to pay taxes?

[Maxxx]

Are you going to pay taxes on your Bitcoin profits?

Lol

Why would I voluntarily give my money to the roving armed pillage gangs who claim (falsely) that they're protecting me from roving armed pillage gangs?

Hear, hear

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[Jaime Frontero]

Oh man... now I want to move to Switzerland. They've got good skiing too.

And quite an active Bitcoin community. The first ever IRL Bitcoin meetup was in Zurich, although I missed it unfortunately.  

This makes me wonder what the laws are for people with dual citizenship.

Do you have to pay taxes to BOTH countries?

I'm not Swiss, but I don't  have to pay taxes in my passport country if I don't live there.  

If I earn in income in Switzerland while living in my passport country, then yes, I pay the difference.

Unfortunately, the US is unique in its US=World attitude of taxing its citizens wherever they live.

actually, you're mistaken.

now me, i certainly plan on paying my (US) taxes - always have, always will.  but in the US, one of the earliest SCOTUS decisions regarding taxes was this:  it is lawful to arrange one's affairs for the sole purpose of reducing one's tax burden.

and where you're mistaken, forever-d, is in this:  a US citizen owes no federal tax (and obviously no state tax) on the first $90,000 of income in a year where said taxpayer/citizen lived for the entire year in a foreign country.  think about it.

if Bitcoin works out and i cash out, it would make sense for me to tourist around and rent a studio apartment in a bordering canadian province for $400/mo - and cash in $90,000 USD worth of Bitcoin.  maybe do some traveling in other countries as well.  as long as i didn't live in the US for that entire calendar year, $90k of my income would be tax free.  and - since i would not be living in any state or territory, i would owe no state taxes. either.

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

[error]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

[SgtSpike]

Ugh, social security is one of the WORST examples of a "successful" program.  It eats up $400-$500B of taxpayer dollars every year, and is completely unsustainable.  As in, when I get to 65 or 70 years of age, there isn't going to be any money left to help with my retirement.

Do you have any idea what kind of retirement that amount of tax dollars could provide to each person if it was invested by each individual, instead of forced to go to the state?  You'd be seeing people retire much, MUCH wealthier.  But everyone is blinded by the socialist mindset of everyone needing provisions, instead of people properly planning for the rest of their life.  It just brings the whole country down.

SS is a joke.  And a scam.

[Jaime Frontero]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

you lose.

[Ricochet]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

I wouldn't classify those programs as "entitlement programs" to be honest.  Both of them we pay into via taxes our entire lives, every paycheck.  I don't think it's greedy to want to get those funds back out in our time of need.

Welfare, sure.  Medicaid, sure.  But SS and Medicare are on a slightly different tier.  

EDIT:  I'm not arguing that they don't need reform.  I'm simply arguing that they aren't "entitlement programs" that's all.

[error]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

you lose.

I would only lose if I paid into them, which I don't. So exactly what do YOU think they are?

[Jaime Frontero]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

I wouldn't classify those programs as "entitlement programs" to be honest.  Both of them we pay into via taxes our entire lives, every paycheck.  I don't think it's greedy to want to get those funds back out in our time of need.

Welfare, sure.  Medicaid, sure.  But SS and Medicare are on a slightly different tier.  

EDIT:  I'm not arguing that they don't need reform.  I'm simply arguing that they aren't "entitlement programs" that's all.

the SS system doesn't even need reform.  a little tweak or two for the next gen.  what it REALLY needs is for the rest of the government to stop stealing from it - which they've been doing for a long time.

but you don't get out if you don't pay in.  and survivors get some of what you paid in if you die before you collect, and they qualify.  it was your money, after all.

you can argue that SS is coerced, if you like.  it doesn't matter to me.  i'm 60 years old, and my parents and grandparents saw starvation.  screw that.  we should treat our brothers and sisters decently - if they contribute during their lives.

and i suppose you could make the argument that the 'early adopters' made out like bandits - they got quite a lot, relatively, without putting as much in as the rest of us.  sound like a familiar argument?  care to make it?  of course, they were all dead by WWII, so the point is moot.  and besides, they built more of our country and its structure than any tinhorn carpetbagger.

[Lynzoi]

Why the hell was this moved to the politics forum? It's a simple question. Are you going to pay taxes or not? Sheesh.

[mrNightowl]

Income tax no way.  I do not support big government and never will.

[smellyBobby]

yea, I'll pay taxes.

The free healthcare that I get in this country has saved my life on several occasions... if it was like the American system then my parents would have lost their house long ago.

In this country being poor isn't a life-threatening condition, and this makes a massive difference to the quality of life here.

My education was free - instead of being sold into indentured servitude in the guise of a student loan, I was paid a grant to go to university.

I'm happy to contribute to the welfare of the nation so young people can have the same freedom I had.

What country are you from?

My Swedish girlfriend is of similar opinion, and was the source of some heated "debates" when we initially met. The tax-rate there is something like 50%, but they have free university even for foreign students( but that is being stopped in August I think), health-care, etc, etc.

It's interesting how the majority of people here say big government and high taxes are one of the biggest evils leading to social decline. Except that it is a massive contradiction if you look at the Nordic countries....

It would be nice if people who are against big government and high taxes could explain this in their arguments.

IMO big government and high taxes can only work if you have transparency and an educated public, which is achieved by a comprehensive education system; all Nordic countries have this.

[Distribution]

i would still have to pay Social Security taxes, but i don't mind that at all; since it is not an entitlement program of any kind.  and this little experiment in democracy known as the United States has already seen the terrible result of ignoring the elderly and unable to work.  Social Security is easily the most successful program in our history - and it took a class-traitor who saw his own class for what it was to ram it down our throats.

Huh? Social Security is one of the two biggest entitlement programs, the other being Medicare.

you lose.

Speaking of losing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMGAi8aGeYM

And I still don't see what you think an entitlement program is. My definition is anything the government owes me. I believe the generally accepted definition is something like that, anything the government has promised it will give you.

[Goldenmaw]

To those who don't intend to pay your taxes -
They're going to make you pay.  Render unto Caesar, or you go in the lion pit.

[sortedmush]

Please humour me and answer these questions with a yes or no?

Is consistency preferable to inconsistency?
Do you own your self?
Should any product or service be provided at the barrel of a gun?
If your ancestor signed a contract with sword to his throat, are you obliged to honour the contract?

[Goldenmaw]

Please humour me and answer these questions with a yes or no?

Is consistency preferable to inconsistency?

Normally, yes.  It certainly applies in this case.  The alternative to income taxes is presently chaos, as our present government - at least in the USA - cannot survive and provide us with its protective services and benefits without income tax.  Mad Max 2.

Do you own your self?

No, and there hasn't been a human being alive who ever has.  From the moment we are born, we are obliged to dance to the tune of life, forced to love people who are bad for us, forced to hunger for things that aren't good for us, and forced to seek power to protect ourselves from others.  True freedom is for the dead.

Should any product or service be provided at the barrel of a gun?

Yes!  Bullets, for one.

If your ancestor signed a contract with sword to his throat, are you obliged to honour the contract?

Possibly.  I'd have to read it, first.

[Lupus_Yonderboy]

"Social Security is an entitlement program" is a huge fallacy that is promoted by the Right wing that many fall for. If you never work and never pay into it, you don't get anything back. They also stop taxing people at $106,800...meaning that somebody who makes $10 million pays the exact same dollar amount to Social Security as someone who makes $106k. If they eliminated that tax break for the wealthy, Social Security would be solvent forever. Thanks, Reagan!

Its funny how the only people to complain about any type of socialized medicine, taxes, etc are from America. You really don't hear any complaints from any Britons about ther NHS, or from the Canadians about their health system, or any other civilized country's citizens for that matter. This is an international forum, and yet it seems the only people pissed off about Govt programs are the far right Americans. Go figure.

There are many elderly in the US who have no families and no one to look after them. All they have is Social Security, and that really isn't enough by itself. Still it is far better than starving and dying alone in the dark, which seems to be the outcome that many on the Right prefer.

A government too weak to take anything from you, is also too weak to prevent anyone else from doing the same. If the US had a weak central government we would all be speaking German right now, or Japanese.

In fact, I advise anyone who wants to see how a weak government works in a real life application to plan their next vacation: boating off the coast of Somalia. If you are lucky you will get the added bonus of witnessing a stong government in action when the SEAL team rescues you.

[Goldenmaw]

Well spoken, Lupus.

[sortedmush]

Normally, yes.  It certainly applies in this case.  The alternative to income taxes is presently chaos, as our present government - at least in the USA - cannot survive and provide us with its protective services and benefits without income tax.  Mad Max 2.

Normally? When is inconsistency preferable? How do you consistently apply the principle that inconsistency is sometimes preferable?

How can a service be protective when it is funded through threats of violence?

Yes, of course we do.

I'm glad you agree.

Yes!  Bullets, for one.

How would this work exactly?

Possibly.  I'd have to read it first.

Can you give me an example of a violently imposed contract that would be binding on your descendants?

[sortedmush]

You really don't hear any complaints from any Britons about ther NHS

The NHS sucks balls.

[MoonShadow]

Its funny how the only people to complain about any type of socialized medicine, taxes, etc are from America. You really don't hear any complaints from any Britons about ther NHS, or from the Canadians about their health system, or any other civilized country's citizens for that matter.

I certainly have, though I must admit that it's never come from the government "regulated" media outlet known as the BBC.