Honestly, which is better? Monero or Dash?

[chennan]

I have to say this:  I consider myself an average Joe Blow type of guy, and I don't even know how I got into bitcoin.  It was just something I read about on the internet and thought was cool.  Bitcoin has value, and bitcoin is the cryptocurrency people are going to use if they get into this.  Both of the coins you have this poll for I've heard of but know absolutely nothing about.  And I don't care to know anything about them.  Altcoins are destined to be ultimately abandoned.  There's no practical use for most of them, and Dash and Monero don't (in my opinion) have a future.  They are tools of speculation and will never be adopted by people like me.

You're right about altcoins that have the same generic code as Bitcoin, but you have to consider that these coins inherent a totally different code, which is cryptonote. Coins that just adopt the same concept of bitcoins are destined to fail, but since the coins we are talking about are genetically different in every way possible with ring signatures and what not, makes it a contender to actually market to more privacy oriented people who want to really remain anonymous during their transactions. I feel that there is always a need amongst bitcoiners to remain completely anonymous. I mean hell, that's how Bitcoin became famous anyways... Through the use of dark web sites like Silk Road.

[1714754862]

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[The Sceptical Chymist]

I have to say this:  I consider myself an average Joe Blow type of guy, and I don't even know how I got into bitcoin.  It was just something I read about on the internet and thought was cool.  Bitcoin has value, and bitcoin is the cryptocurrency people are going to use if they get into this.  Both of the coins you have this poll for I've heard of but know absolutely nothing about.  And I don't care to know anything about them.  Altcoins are destined to be ultimately abandoned.  There's no practical use for most of them, and Dash and Monero don't (in my opinion) have a future.  They are tools of speculation and will never be adopted by people like me.

Weird that i have friends who get mad that they have to buy BTC to get Monero--of course these friends have little interest in cryptocurrencies in general, but see the value of online privacy. Still unsure why anyone wants to put their business on a public blockchain, but to each his own.

Yes, and my guess is that we have quite different sets of friends and that yours are far more computer-savvy than mine.  Like I said, common folk have yet to adopt bitcoin, much less any of the other altcoins.  I happen to like DOGE, and I've said this on other threads.  There's no rationale for this, I just like it--but there's nowhere to spend it!  It just makes a good tipping instrument, and there are some strange things for sale using it over on Reddit, but that's about it.  The uses for DOGE and the other coins are pretty limited.  Gambling, dark markets, and speculation.

Edit:  Hey, you're going to be a Hero member quite soon!

[generalizethis]

I have to say this:  I consider myself an average Joe Blow type of guy, and I don't even know how I got into bitcoin.  It was just something I read about on the internet and thought was cool.  Bitcoin has value, and bitcoin is the cryptocurrency people are going to use if they get into this.  Both of the coins you have this poll for I've heard of but know absolutely nothing about.  And I don't care to know anything about them.  Altcoins are destined to be ultimately abandoned.  There's no practical use for most of them, and Dash and Monero don't (in my opinion) have a future.  They are tools of speculation and will never be adopted by people like me.

Weird that i have friends who get mad that they have to buy BTC to get Monero--of course these friends have little interest in cryptocurrencies in general, but see the value of online privacy. Still unsure why anyone wants to put their business on a public blockchain, but to each his own.

Yes, and my guess is that we have quite different sets of friends and that yours are far more computer-savvy than mine.  Like I said, common folk have yet to adopt bitcoin, much less any of the other altcoins.  I happen to like DOGE, and I've said this on other threads.  There's no rationale for this, I just like it--but there's nowhere to spend it!  It just makes a good tipping instrument, and there are some strange things for sale using it over on Reddit, but that's about it.  The uses for DOGE and the other coins are pretty limited.  Gambling, dark markets, and speculation.

Edit:  Hey, you're going to be a Hero member quite soon!

Actually these friends are normal people--not technophobes (one is) but not coders either--just understand the value of private money. Even if only the security sector adopts monero, that's a good chunk of valuable users. I'm more interested with what companies and governments will use anyway, as most people will be fine using bank money until someone tells them differently, and those entities won't likely be interested in having their transactions on a public blockchain for foreign and domestic spy agencies, competitors, and journalists to glean sensitive information from.

Thanks for noticing my soon to be hero status--BCT needs higher standards = p

[ArticMine]

I have to say this:  I consider myself an average Joe Blow type of guy, and I don't even know how I got into bitcoin.  It was just something I read about on the internet and thought was cool.  Bitcoin has value, and bitcoin is the cryptocurrency people are going to use if they get into this.  Both of the coins you have this poll for I've heard of but know absolutely nothing about.  And I don't care to know anything about them.  Altcoins are destined to be ultimately abandoned.  There's no practical use for most of them, and Dash and Monero don't (in my opinion) have a future.  They are tools of speculation and will never be adopted by people like me.

I do agree that for the most part the current use value for alt-coins is for the most part non existent; however this is not the point. Many people who buy crypto currencies are speculating on the future utility of the crypto currency and hence the future value of the crypto currency. The real questions then become: Are there serious problems affecting the future utility of Bitcoin that the alt-coin solves? Does the alt-coin introduce any new problems not present in Bitcoin?

[Spoetnik]

BOTH should be concerned about Cryptsy !

Guys, no matter which side you are on between the two battling coins..
i hope you are all paying attention to the shenanigans Cryptsy has been pulling.
It would be one hell of a long rant to explain

We need to unite and stand together against scam exchanges !

READ !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173703.msg13303659#msg13303659

[Funny]

Dash because the name seriously sounds cooler than "Monero".

[XMRpromotions]

Dash because the name seriously sounds cooler than "Monero".

I think Monero is a great name!

[cryptodromeda]

Monero definitely has the better name.

Dash is just "meh" - in fact whenever I see the word it just reminds me of trash. (Dash is trash etc)

[stoat]

Monero sounds like a mexican invented it. Monero - dinero - sombrero - flamenco.   It doesnt inspire confidence.

[cryptodromeda]

Monero sounds like a mexican invented it. Monero - dinero - sombrero - flamenco.   It doesnt inspire confidence.

Clearly the community doesn't agree with you.

[stoat]

Monero sounds like a mexican invented it. Monero - dinero - sombrero - flamenco.   It doesnt inspire confidence.

Clearly the community doesn't agree with you.

That poll takes in to account more factors than just their names.  Should make another poll called "What is a better name for a cryptocurrency monero or dash?"

[BagHolder010]

[...]I say this is what should be done. Let the well known members of both coins give concise reasonings and explanations for their opinion on which is better. It would be beneficial to add links or images pinpointing what they are talking about, and other people can look into it later when they get the chance.  Then after a couple of days when everyone has had their piece about which one is better, the OP should then post up a "pro vs. con" chart for each coin and then let people decide for themselves[...]

What good does it do for us experts to explain as I did upthread that Dash's InstantX subjects the coin to double-spending and forking, and yet n00bs like this one below will completely ignore my (and monsterer's) expertise and continue to spread lies like the following.

In terms of technology and innovation behind both coins you have to give it to Dashcoin[...]Dashcoin with instant transaction is like a dream coming from Bitcoin! and it actually works!  [...]

Newbie please explain to me how you can completely ignore my expertise and then repeat a lie as you did? Are you a sockpuppet account that is intentionally lying?

Do you think I don't know what I am writing about? Do you have any clue how much expertise there  is between myself, monsterer and smooth?

We try to help you all understand, but you ignore us and repeat lies.  

Seems like it best to just you fools lose your money. Go ahead. I don't care what you do.

I am not aligned with XMR nor DRK. I never owned either one, and probably never will.

Sorry not to be rude but I don't know who are you? o.o did you create a crytpo coin before? what's the name of it?

I really looked at Dash.org and looked at https://forum.getmonero.org/...I lurked like probably many did here. I am a Newbie to you it's fine really does not bother me at all.

I also found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68nC5BQfuuE...I think Monero programmers and community should be instead of saying why is Dashcoin bad be like here is why Monero is better? also they need to stop taking profit from a gambling site and work harder for more releases and more updates which like I have been told in Monero speculation thread hasn't been for a year or so. There are like 3 or 4 "not sure" dashcoin developers yet they did so much o.O if that instamined made them work so hard why the 7 or 8 Monero developers did not work harder if they do a side business from a gambling site they own and they even win there with big amounts such as 21,000 or so? and this is without the crippled miner with & the donation I just don't get it.

They actually have 30 developers LOL, hating on Evan so much while they didn't do anything for crypto except Cry"p"to about it here into forums.

They spam anti Dash threads and on the ANN thread because their ANN thread is dead and their 30+ developers can't do much except bug fixing and like you said a gambling site Monerodice.net and this is actually turned out to be a side business for the main developer LOOOOOL imagine 10% profits while doing bug fixing like an entry level job developer. You will not see any Dash supporter on their ANN thread now please look how they spam Dash ANN thread?! don't believe anything they say they just hating while their coin is going down because lack of development after btw copying Bytecoin AND the spam they do including the OP "cryptdromeda".

Ohh also don't believe Icebreaker he is a hashfast scammer google it =]

P.S it's Dash not dashcoin  

[qwizzie]

Shadowcash -> both

tech wise that is.

Damn, that threw a spanner in the works.  I was on the cusp, THE CUSP, of deciding which one is better monero or dash when this deliveryman guy throws in a bombshell: 'Shadowcash'.  Now i know monero and dash are quite hard to decide between, but shadowcash?  Is shadowcash better than monero AND dash? Can anyone from either the monero community, the dash community or the shadowcash community please enlighten me?

[generalizethis]

Qwizzie, there are so many flaws with that infographic. 

First, dash doesn't handle its anonymity on the protocol level, which Evan (finally) admitted was inferior to coins that handle it at the protocol level--like Monero and Aeon and Boolberry. Second, last I heard it took 20+ hours to do a darksend with a mix-in of 4--yikes! So item one should read Dash inferior anonymity with 20+ hours mix in times.

Dash's decentralized governance and budget are flawed due to the instaminers most likely having too much control. I mean it would be stupid for them to vote for projects that wouldn't benefit them, and naive for those who are Dash poor to think that those with a lot of masternodes wouldn't push through projects that benefited those already Dash rich. That's not decentralized; that's an oligarchy.

Two of the items are actually spectacular flaws:

IX requires 6 of 10 signatures to create a transaction lock.

Which is exactly what I wrote it must do, and exactly what I wrote when I surmised that your white paper was implying the highly jammable design of 10-of-10.

But as I pointed out in the correct math (which is clear you still haven't grasped), even 6-of-10 can be jammed 62% of the time (and multiply spent the other 38% of the time) given a 50% attack on the masternodes (i.e. the 50% attack on masternodes can attack 100% of the InstantX transactions). Even at 10% attack on masternodes, then every 666th UTXO can be jammed and roughly every 10,000th UTXO can be multiply spent. So if there are 66,600 UXTO, then a 10% attack on the masternodes (i.e. controlling 10% of the masternodes) roughly can jam 100 of the available UXTO and double-spend (actually multiply spend, i.e. unlimited lies can be announced by masternodes) 7 of them.

These sort of flaws are amateurish. You are in over your head. You are a programmer and some sort of finance person and a reasonably good marketer mining the gullible speculators (but not to actual users of currency), but you are not capable enough on the block chain theory.

This entire argument is based on an invalid premise! So your jamming attack doesn't work...

Nope. My entire argument is you apparently still don't know how to do basic probability math.

Will you attempt to copy my design and order Dash's masternode announcements? Then will you try to copy my design and merge all the orphans? If not, you will still have attack flaws in your design. Will you replace the deposit for controlling a masternodes with a nomination by PoW, so as to avoid the flaw of externalities that can finance the purchase of masternodes, e.g. shorting the coin.

Well even if you do manage to copy my design, you still can't fix the fact that attacking masternodes is a one-time cost and not sublinear (ongoing cost) as per attacking a correctly designed PoW coin (which is the point that has been made by myself, monsterer, and smooth). And thus Dash is a proof-of-stake security model, not a proof-of-work. Thus it can be undermined by for example combining shorting with attacking masternodes. And you won't get all the small details correct, because you simply don't have enough smart people helping you, because apparently the smart people don't want to work on your closed source during development (and very well documented allegations: fraud) coin. I would never work on your coin, because you have no usership. It is all marketing to speculators to mine the speculators. What is the point? We are supposed to be creating crypto to change the world and entice millions or billions of users. But that has never been your marketing plan. You've always been mining the speculators instead.

And also I do believe the SEC will be coming after you eventually for very clearly running an unregistered illegal investment security (and you come from the finance world so you know very well that you are skirting the securities law). Hope you've paid off the regulators with the $million you mined from the gullible speculators in crypto. Personally I don't see how it has been worth it. The $million you've perhaps pocketed will never sustain you to be rich for the rest of your life, and you will constantly have hanging over your head the threat of SEC action at any time in the future. That is criminal liability in exchange for $million. Not worth it. You are nearing the end of the road for your run.

When I originally assisted you on some of the errors in your original design which caused you to invent masternodes, I viewed you as a nice guy who was trying to develop something. When all these allegations of fraud and premine crap came out, I was very shamed that I had let you get away with promoting Dash. I always knew that Dash was a barely literate design (come on do you really want me to explain how your new anonymity design will be just as flawed as the current on in Dash!), but I didn't want to interfere because I am not the altcoin police (unlike smooth who sometimes tries to act like a sheriff). But really I have to tell you frankly, that I am ashamed that you have mined the speculators and not proposed any real impact for mass usership. And now you have the audacity to go pumping up this Evolution design as some great innovation and fooling more gullible speculators. I mean if you hadn't of done the fraud thing, I would probably not be hitting you so hard now. Again I don't go around harping on the fraud thing, because I am not the altcoin police. But pleeeaaaseee do not try to argue that you are capable on block chain theory tech. You are not.

I don't want to help you because you are doing evil in terms of the goals we as a community are trying to reach. You are siphoning away money from the community and not putting it towards actual innovation (both marketing and technical) that could really help us deal with the problem of a State gone amok. Help us to reach the ideals of crypto. Instead you are just mining the speculators and they seem to believe you are technically capable. You are capable enough to produce code, and you are capable enough to correct mistakes that are pointed out to you. But you are not capable enough to get the really smart people to work with you on ongoing basis, because you are not going in the correct direction in terms of the purpose of why we are here supporting crypto in the first place, which is to get millions of users to use crypto and to better the world (while also making money from increased adoption, not from mining from each other i.e. extracting money from each other in zero-sum game on this forum).

Maybe if you mea culpa on the premine crap and work towards bettering the world instead fooling (ahem marketing to the) the speculators, then maybe I would feel like helping you. But any way, I am moving forward on trying to move the crypto world forward in the direction it needs to be going. Maybe you should help me! I helped you before and you made a lot of money from me standing aside and not criticizing Dash in the early days. Maybe now it is time for you to pay back to the community.

And most definitely you can't duplicate my marketing plan directly to millions of users.

This is the end of the road for Dash.

It will be evident some weeks from now that Dash has no future.

Edit: I will look at your source code links when I have time. I need to head out the door to do errands. If I discover that any of my points are incorrect, I will mea culpa. Again I don't hate you, but I feel I must be frank about the technology because we really need innovation that help us reach the goals of crypto and not just half-assed tech from guys who design schemes to siphon off the capital of crypto into their pockets. And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security. It doesn't matter how you've obfuscated it by pretending the masternodes are in control, the Supreme Court has consistently said that the test overlooks any attempts to obfuscate the economic reality of the situation. Then on top of that is the evidence of deception with the premine and the advertised money supply protocol being altered ex post facto, etc.

And afaik you are a USA citizen, so thus you incur the maximum culpability.

And as far as strong focus on research and development goes, that's just like your opinion, man:

https://getmonero.org/design-goals/




 

[TPTB_need_war]

Let me fix the lies in that table for you:

Feature	Dash	Monero	ShadowCoin	AnonyMint's "VaporCoin"	BitShares DPOS
Anonymity	Spyware potentially improving	Unprovable	Unprovable	No	Incomplete
Mass-scale txns	Broken, Unfixable	No*	No	Yes	100+ TX/sec
Instant txns	Broken, Unfixable	No	No	Yes	No
GUI wallet	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Browser wallet	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes
Microtransactions wallet	No	No	No	Yes	No
Unlimited public block chains per PoW chain	No	No	No	Yes	No
Launched to millions of users	No	No	No	Planned	No
IPO or mineable by speculators	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes
Bitcoin interoption				Planned
Mobile App	Yes	Yes	No	Browser app	Browser app
Browser/SPV wallet	Planned	Yes	Yes	Yes
Proof-of-Stake Politics (non-decentralized governance)	Yes	No	No	No	Yes
Research	Dunning-Krugerish!	Above average, several smart dudes	Minimal, mostly plagiarism	Above average, but only 1 dude	Average?
Development (10 is highest)	5	6	6	¼	8
Network & security model	Fixed cost Vulnerable[1] Proof-of-Stake	Unbounded cost Satoshi proof-of-work	Fixed cost Vulnerable[1] Proof-of-Stake	Unbounded cost Perfected proof-of-work	Fixed cost Vulnerable[1] Proof-of-Stake

[1]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13271013#msg13271013 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13276564#msg13276564 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13277243#msg13277243 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13281563#msg13281563 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13289767#msg13289767 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13296145#msg13296145 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13277560#msg13277560 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13281009#msg13281009 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13309800#msg13309800 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290263.msg13309719#msg13309719 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290263.msg13311936#msg13311936

Note my coin is not released so claimed features are not publicly verified. Also by the time those features are released, it is possible the other coins will also have released new features.

Please notify me of any corrections I need to make and I will edit the table.

[CoinHoarder]

.... AnonyMint pumping his vaporware as usual ...

"Proof-of-Stake Politics (non-decentralized governance)" - I guess you haven't been following Bitcoin lately? There are just as much politics involved with PoW as soon as a cryptocurrency is large enough. Google "Bitcoin block size limit controversy".

Bitshares R&D is average yet Monero (LOL) is above average and your vaporware is above average. Monero releases one whitepaper and all the sudden they are above average R&D... give me a break lol. You obviously have no idea how much R&D in many different decentralized technologies Bitshares has done in its forums as a community over the past couple years. They've done way more research and development than Monero and yourself combined.

Bitshares browser/mobile wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/

Your claim that your coin will be launched to millions of users is laughable. Please enlighten us how you plan to do that so we can pick holes at all of the issues with your "plan."

Your claim that attacking a PoS coin is a "fixed cost" and attacking a PoW coin is an "unbounded cost" is similarly ridiculous considering the costs of attacking both types are dynamic (PoS depending on the price of the coin and PoW depending on the hash power of the coin.)

[TPTB_need_war]

Why? Zerocoin (note this is zeroCOIN not zeroCASH) was developed years ago and well-discussed by experts (and generally rejected as a poor approach) already on this forum and elsewhere. Just because some pump-and-dumpers recycle their zerovert scam into a new ICO coin they are trying to hype, why would developers care about that?

Well, maybe they don't care.  That's absolutely fine with me.  Considering some well-respected folks in Cryptoland were tweeting about it, I honestly thought this was a never-seen-before implementation.  If it's old news, that's fine too!   

Even anoncoin was I think implementing Zerocoin last year. But Zerocoin is not Zerocash (although Zerocash does have coins names zerocoins). It is Zerocash that might be the holy-grail of provable anonymity, but afaik there doesn't exist a stable, fully vetted implementation. No one can really deliver Zerocash today. It is on my future list to delve into (that doesn't mean a promise of implementation).

Note when I write that anonymity in Cryptonote (and plagiarized version such as ShadowCoin) is "unprovable", I mean that no one can prove the level of their anonymity mathematically. That doesn't mean there is no mixing going on. It just means no one can prove the mixing is of a certain level of probability to be anonymous. Or to be even more precise, compared to Zerocash, no one can prove that the asymptotic anonymity is 100% (even Zerocash can be Sybil attacked but the non-Sybils accumulate in the anonymity set unbounded whereas the anonymity sets in Cryptonote are ephemeral, bounded thus collapsing into combinatorial cascade + Sybil reduction).

I will not bother to enumerate again the flaws of Zerocoin. I concur with smooth's statement that others have done that already.

[TPTB_need_war]

.... AnonyMint pumping his vaporware as usual ...

How can I be pumping that which will not be mineable nor available in an IPO?

Explain that genius. 

[DaveyJones]

.... AnonyMint pumping his vaporware as usual ...

"Proof-of-Stake Politics (non-decentralized governance)" - I guess you haven't been following Bitcoin lately? There are just as much politics involved with PoW as soon as a cryptocurrency is large enough. Google "Bitcoin block size limit controversy".

Bitshares R&D is average yet Monero (LOL) is above average and your vaporware is above average. Monero releases one whitepaper and all the sudden they are above average R&D... give me a break lol. You obviously have no idea how much R&D in many different decentralized technologies Bitshares has done in its forums as a community over the past couple years. They've done way more research and development than Monero and yourself combined.

Bitshares browser/mobile wallet: https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/

Your claim that your coin will be launched to millions of users is laughable. Please enlighten us how you plan to do that so we can pick holes at all of the issues with your "plan."

Your claim that attacking a PoS coin is a "fixed cost" and attacking a PoW coin is an "unbounded cost" is similarly ridiculous considering the costs of attacking both types are dynamic (PoS depending on the price of the coin and PoW depending on the hash power of the coin.)

If you sling mud atleast get your facts straight... 1 Whitepaper for Monero? What about https://lab.getmonero.org/ and https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1098.pdf So who has no Idea?

[CoinHoarder]

If you sling mud atleast get your facts straight... 1 Whitepaper for Monero? What about https://lab.getmonero.org/ and https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1098.pdf So who has no Idea?

Thanks for the link, I was only aware of the Ring CT whitepaper. Still, he largely discredits all of the R&D that Bitshares has done which is rediculous and it is obvious he hasn't followed the Bitshares community closely (as it is obvious I haven't followed the Monero community closely.) Not only has Bitshares done a ton of research, but there are two words in R & D... Research and Development. Bitshares has done more development than both coins I mentioned (anonymint's vaporware and monero) combined.