Honestly, which is better? Monero or Dash?

[generalizethis]

We don't know exactly what happened, and are thus unable to rewrite history that is not public knowledge.

What Monero has rewritten is Bytecoin's "atrocious" codebase and de-optimized proof of work.

Well, Monero took Bytecoin's codebase. That much we know.

Monero changed it for the better, so your point is? Do you have one?

I guess his point is that the original innovation and design was in Bytecoin, not Monero. Whether you accept that or not Monero will still be 0.001 tomorrow.

Calling scoreboard before the game even starts is equivalent to me having to listen to Eagles fans say they're going to the Super Bowl because they won the pre-season. None of these coins (not even Bitcoin) is to the point where they can say, "We did it!" But this is illodin trying to get away from a technical discussion--why don't you go mix some dash? Then I won't have to deal with your distraction techniques for at least twenty hours.

[1714797505]

1714797505

[1714797505]

1714797505

[AlexGR]

Monero is superior to Dash on every technical level and all you are doing is niggling on what qualifies as hard work. Sad.

I got into that discussion because I'm not buying the "ohhh we did all that awesome improvements" angle - and explained why.

As for Monero, well, now that I've sold all my Moneros (it seems like the Monero community wanted those with dual investment alienated) I will be pretty frank about it: It won't scale and it's not even working on some serious scaling solution. I'm not aware of Bytecoin working on a scaling solution either so there is nothing to copy from there. As it stands, we are looking at a proof-of-concept system / DOA for actual use.

I'm not saying reducing bloat by a few tens %. I'm talking about much more.

Dash will develop its own system and, at worst, if Dash fails to provide distributed storage etc, it can "adopt" a Lightning clone   (as a BTC-compatible coin), to compensate or as a short-term fix until it gets going with its own system. We'll see how it goes.

[dadj]

For example, dash and monero devs, didn't develop a crypto from scratch. They are just adding brush strokes on what was an already existing currency. Dash more so than monero, due to introducing new systems (instantx, masternodes, decentralized voting, darksend etc) but still, the essence is that it is more like brush strokes. If you add a lot more code to what you started, then you start to be more "legit" as an actual coder that can take credit, rather than making tweaks.

The problem is with Dash's darksend 'brush stroke'. There's nothing instant about it and it takes too long.

Decentralized voting would be impressive, if it were actually democratic. The botched distribution of Dash unfortunately skews proposal results in Evan's favour. All the proposals so far are won by him:

https://www.dashwhale.org/budget

For a supposedly decentralised digital currency, there is a lot invested in one person's ability.

I'm not saying reducing bloat by a few tens %. I'm talking about much more.

Boolberry has done some work in pruning ring signatures which I'm sure Monero could adapt and implement if bloat became a problem.

http://boolberry.com/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf

This feature will make Boolberry Block Chain at least 55% and up to
90% smaller than Ordinary CryptoNote coins.

EDIT

Monero won't be implementing Boolberry solution.

We rejected this idea ages ago, primarily because Boolberry's scheme drops old signatures (see slide 11), and the linear saving isn't worth the inability to fully and independently verify the chain. We do agree that there is a benefit to a segwit-like structure, both in terms of removing malleability and increasing initial sync (as signatures can be fetched after), and we will likely implement something more akin to segwit in future.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/40r2yv/can_monero_prune_ring_signatures_like_boolberry/

[obit33]

Monero is superior to Dash on every technical level and all you are doing is niggling on what qualifies as hard work. Sad.

I got into that discussion because I'm not buying the "ohhh we did all that awesome improvements" angle - and explained why.

As for Monero, well, now that I've sold all my Moneros (it seems like the Monero community wanted those with dual investment alienated) I will be pretty frank about it: It won't scale and it's not even working on some serious scaling solution. I'm not aware of Bytecoin working on a scaling solution either so there is nothing to copy from there. As it stands, we are looking at a proof-of-concept system / DOA for actual use.

I'm not saying reducing bloat by a few tens %. I'm talking about much more.

Dash will develop its own system and, at worst, if Dash fails to provide distributed storage etc, it can "adopt" a Lightning clone   (as a BTC-compatible coin), to compensate or as a short-term fix until it gets going with its own system. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah, some lightning will be needed indeed: http://blog.makemoneywhileyouwork.com/2016/01/11/using-alt-coins-to-mix-bitcoins/

lol, an anonymous coin that needs 7 hours to mix, and it didn't even work...

reducing bloat should be the last of your worries...

best regards

[AlexGR]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

[dadj]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

Dash's claim is that its anonymous and instant today. This is very misleading if it is actually only anonymous & slow, or only instant & not anonymous.

[AlexGR]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

Dash's claim is that its anonymous and instant today. This is very misleading if it is actually only anonymous & slow, or only instant & not anonymous.

It is instant & anonymous* in transacting a premixed balance.

* Provided there is an anonymous IP solution as well which I would prefer if it was offered out-of-the-box.

[ridery99]

Both are shit coins with small religion keeping them still "alive".
If you want profit buy btc and ltc.

[dadj]

It is instant & anonymous* in transacting a premixed balance.

* Provided there is an anonymous IP solution as well which I would prefer if it was offered out-of-the-box.

Premixing a balance takes a ridiculous amount of hours/days/weeks depending on how much you're mixing. Dash is marketed as 'instant & anonymous', not 'instant & anonymous if you premix'. This is why it's a dishonest solution for users seeking privacy.

[obit33]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

• people will be mixing
• speed will pickup
• when a lot of people
• I think we already

lots of empty assumptions there...

If it takes 7 hours to mix 2 Dash, then all the people will be mixing all the time...

good luck

best regards

[generalizethis]

It is instant & anonymous* in transacting a premixed balance.

* Provided there is an anonymous IP solution as well which I would prefer if it was offered out-of-the-box.

Premixing a balance takes a ridiculous amount of hours/days/weeks depending on how much you're mixing. Dash is marketed as 'instant & anonymous', not 'instant & anonymous if you premix'. This is why it's a dishonest solution for users seeking privacy.

It's like having to call your order ahead of time when you go to the drive-thru, "Sorry sir, it will be about a five hour wait for your burger. Next time you should call a day in advance."

[smoothie]

We don't know exactly what happened, and are thus unable to rewrite history that is not public knowledge.

What Monero has rewritten is Bytecoin's "atrocious" codebase and de-optimized proof of work.

Well, Monero took Bytecoin's codebase. That much we know.

Monero changed it for the better, so your point is? Do you have one? I'm guessing you don't understand how forks work and think the first iteration of any technology is somehow a sacred cow that can't be touched or improved. Have you gone through Monero and Bytecoin's code? If you had, you'd understand the many changes and wouldn't be on here making stupid non-points.

I can't code shit, in terms of cryptocurrency code, but I do know that a few tweaks here and there are not anything special.
...

That ^ should be enough for people debating/discussing the code base with you to stop given your inability to comprehend and read the source for what it is.

You obviously haven't looked at the code when you make statments like " a few tweaks here and there are not anything special"

As that is not even the case with MONERO's codebase.

Go back and get some facts and then let's discuss them. You are fighting an uphill battle with no legs at this point.

[smoothie]

We don't know exactly what happened, and are thus unable to rewrite history that is not public knowledge.

What Monero has rewritten is Bytecoin's "atrocious" codebase and de-optimized proof of work.

Well, Monero took Bytecoin's codebase. That much we know.

Monero changed it for the better, so your point is? Do you have one?

I guess his point is that the original innovation and design was in Bytecoin, not Monero. Whether you accept that or not Monero will still be 0.001 tomorrow.

Calling scoreboard before the game even starts is equivalent to me having to listen to Eagles fans say they're going to the Super Bowl because they won the pre-season. None of these coins (not even Bitcoin) is to the point where they can say, "We did it!" But this is illodin trying to get away from a technical discussion--why don't you go mix some dash? Then I won't have to deal with your distraction techniques for at least twenty seventy-two hours.

Depends on how much dash he is mixing. lol

[smoothie]

Monero is superior to Dash on every technical level and all you are doing is niggling on what qualifies as hard work. Sad.

I got into that discussion because I'm not buying the "ohhh we did all that awesome improvements" angle - and explained why.

As for Monero, well, now that I've sold all my Moneros (it seems like the Monero community wanted those with dual investment alienated) I will be pretty frank about it: It won't scale and it's not even working on some serious scaling solution. I'm not aware of Bytecoin working on a scaling solution either so there is nothing to copy from there. As it stands, we are looking at a proof-of-concept system / DOA for actual use.

I'm not saying reducing bloat by a few tens %. I'm talking about much more.

Dash will develop its own system and, at worst, if Dash fails to provide distributed storage etc, it can "adopt" a Lightning clone   (as a BTC-compatible coin), to compensate or as a short-term fix until it gets going with its own system. We'll see how it goes.

Well for someone who claims they can't code cryptocurrency related software you sure seem to have a huge opinion against the development of MONERO.

I have looked into the code base and dug deep into MONERO and I have found much more sound code based on sound MATH and sound cryptography than I can really see in DASH.

DASH's white paper does not have a single mathematical proof...nor a single reference. It's just hand waving by a EVANGELISTIC-lying-scammy-dev.

Anyway what's it to you?

Is it because some have outted the major flaws of DASH and its scammy/lying developer?

Much of what you posted above is so generalized that you don't speak on specifics.

The argument you are making is that "yay! DASH has little to no bloat".....but the reality is that DASH's network model is broken on so many levels that it doesn't even matter even if that is true.

Not to mention the centralized feature of "LIQUIDITY PROVIDERS" <------- that should scream FEDERAL RESERVE/CENTRAL BANK to anyone with half a brain.


Do I really care if you sold your monero? No.

Do whatever you want. Buy casino coin for all I care.

[smooth]

We don't know exactly what happened, and are thus unable to rewrite history that is not public knowledge.

What Monero has rewritten is Bytecoin's "atrocious" codebase and de-optimized proof of work.

Well, Monero took Bytecoin's codebase. That much we know.

Monero changed it for the better, so your point is? Do you have one?

I guess his point is that the original innovation and design was in Bytecoin, not Monero. Whether you accept that or not Monero will still be 0.001 tomorrow.

Even if true, that doesn't address the question of which is better, Monero or Dash.

If Monero were 100% nothing other than a fair relaunch of Bytecoin (it isn't, of course), it would still do some things better than Dash, so the question is still worth asking.

[smoothie]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

The concept of PREMIXING is like me saying

ME: Hey AlexGR, remember that money you owe me.... can you give me some cash to settle that debt so I can go and buy a FLUFFYPONY?

AlexGR: Sure ....let me go to my wallet and get some.

......10 minutes goes by......

Me: AlexGR, what's taking so long?

AlexGR: Hold on I'm premixing my bills because the cash won't let me give it to you until it is PREMIXED properly.

Me: Oh....oh okay How much longer?

AlexGR: Any minute now...

...30 min goes by....

Me: Dude, what is going on?

AlexGR: Sorry man this is taking so long. I knew I should have PREMIXED my cash in advance. SHIT.

Me: how much longer?

AlexGR: I guess maybe another 30 min?

Me: Okay I'll wait

....35 min goes by....

Me: is it done PREMIXING yet?

AlexGR: No. It shouldn't be long...

Me: Okay dude just call me when it is done. Oh and next time PREMIX your shit before hand so when I come to collect my money you aren't wasting my time!

 

[smoothie]

Premixing and sending mixed coins are two different phases for DASH.

Sending premixed coins is instant.

Mixing your balance can be done whenever you want. Speed will pickup with time, as more people use mixing and there is greater "availability" to mix with. At that point, when a lot of people are mixing, bloat and fees will be the issue. I think we already had a glimpse of the future when premixing with multiple rounds was implemented and the network got congested from all the people who were waiting to mix their coins for the first time. IIRC the fees were bumped a bit, or it was suggested that txs would go through faster with a fee - something like that.

Dash's claim is that its anonymous and instant today. This is very misleading if it is actually only anonymous & slow, or only instant & not anonymous.

It is instant & anonymous* in transacting a premixed balance.

* Provided there is an anonymous IP solution as well which I would prefer if it was offered out-of-the-box.

"Dash - Anonymous assuming MN owners or centralized cloud hosting companies don't collude to undo your anonymity and Instant when you premix your stuff ahead of time!"

[smooth]

Premixing is best viewed as something that you need to do as part of the process once you receive coins. If you don't do it, then you lose the privacy advantages and you might as well just use Bitcoin.

So the time needed for premixing can be viewed as equivalent to transaction taking that much longer to fully confirm.

[smoothie]

It is instant & anonymous* in transacting a premixed balance.

* Provided there is an anonymous IP solution as well which I would prefer if it was offered out-of-the-box.

Premixing a balance takes a ridiculous amount of hours/days/weeks depending on how much you're mixing. Dash is marketed as 'instant & anonymous', not 'instant & anonymous if you premix'. This is why it's a dishonest solution for users seeking privacy.

It's like having to call your order ahead of time when you go to the drive-thru, "Sorry sir, it will be about a five hour wait for your burger. Next time you should call a day in advance."

ROFL!

PREMIX-IN-THE-BOX!

[AlexGR]

Monero is almost FUBAR unless it changes direction.

1) Scaling / bloat = DOA. There is desperate need for a scaling solution and this is not on the horizon.
2) Community is shooting itself in the foot all the time, engaging with other alts
3) Devs gloat about development when ...well.... GUI
4) Actual development for transitioning the coin from a proof-of-concept to a viable coin is lacking
5) Due to 1 & 4, it is thought that if we attack the market leader perhaps we stand a better chance. Well, spending 24/7/365 on the Dash thread, trolling, won't fix Monero's issues.

DASH, on the other hand, is losing focus on the core industry of privacy (masternode blinding, ip obfuscation), wanting to extend beyond that, to instant transactions (ok, it may have broader appeal compared to anonymity, and it may well be that it's a killer app if Bitcoin's zero-conf are killed, but still), decentralized government and stuff and its roadmap to scaling will probably take quite some time. Yet it's better than having no map at all, or expecting BTC to solve the issue for you.

The market positioning of DASH and the consolidation as undisputed #1 in the market, as good as it may be for the investors of DASH, is not good for the anonymity development of DASH. If Monero, Bytecoin etc didn't suck so bad (difficult to use, incompatible with BTC, bloated to proof-of-concept levels, stealthmined, cripplemined etc), DASH would be pressed to improve its own core business as well. Users would actually have better anonymity systems to use due to the competition, so to speak. Now it's just "trolling wars" = bullshit.