Honestly, which is better? Monero or Dash?

[iCEBREAKER]

Feel free to try and attack a PoS chain and let me know how successful you are.

That happens all the time.  PoS coins have to use (increasingly convoluted) checkpoint schemes to fight 'nothing-at-stake' type attacks.

NovaCoin, for example, just got #rekt by one.  And Balthazar is 100 times smarter and better at coding than Dash's trash developer.

It would be such a terrible tragedy if Dash suffered catastrophic consensus failure about an hour before Madoffield's Miami talk starts... 

[TPTB_need_war]

Where exactly is the "spyware" aspect of DASH located?

It's an open source project, so please, if possible, name of file and line of code...

Here is what I wrote:

I claim that Dash is spyware because the anonymity is trusted to masternodes which are an obvious target for the NSA or anyone who can profit on breaking anonymity (e.g. those who want to blackmail you or whatever).

I don't need to dig in the source. It is a conceptual truth in terms of the way the anonymity has been described (at least the last time I paid attention).

Evan mentioned he was going to improve it for Evolution, but even if he shifts to onion routing across masternodes, that won't entirely absolve the attacks on anonymity from colluding masternodes (although it can improve the statistics on the masternode coverage needed for breaking anonymity). Ditto any mixnet he employs, including if he prefers to implement CoinShuffle.

Instead if he implements Cryptonote then he won't have RingCT's features. If implements RingCT, then he is copying Monero's recent research. Also I doubt he is capable of understanding the RingCT white paper and implementing it. He will probably have to work by copying source code or hiring some expert crypto assistance.

In any case, that won't correct the other flaws in InstantX and mass-scale transactions that are his other big selling points of Evolution. And none of that will correct the fact that masternodes reduces Dash to an inferior proof-of-stake security/politics model.

I will correct the comparison chart to indicate the anonymity may be improving for Evolution.

Where exactly is the "spyware" aspect of DASH located?

It's an open source project, so please, if possible, name of file and line of code...

Here is what I wrote:

I claim that Dash is spyware because the anonymity is trusted to masternodes which are an obvious target for the NSA or anyone who can profit on breaking anonymity (e.g. those who want to blackmail you or whatever).

I don't need to dig in the source. It is a conceptual truth in terms of the way the anonymity has been described (at least the last time I paid attention).

OK, I missed that (just got to the thread), but Spyware, as a term, is something entirely different.

It's one thing to say that an obfuscation model could be vulnerable under XYZ circumstances with a probability of x% of that happening, and another thing altogether to say "spyware". This is sensationalist crap. Especially when the masternode model as is implemented right now can use multiple rounds of laundering where each round reduces the probability of that happening to an insanely low percentage.

Sybil attacks with those you are mixing with is a very overlooked -yet much weaker point- than masternodes being crooked. Pretending to be a mixing partner does not require NSA-level resources. Unfortunately, all mixing systems will have this problem to one degree or the other.

I disagree with the probability miscalculation that says many mixers assures the probability of unmasking is reduced asymptotically towards 0. There are patterns that develop and can be correlated. The more visibility, the more correlation. For me to enumerate all scenarios would require writing a research paper.

When all the masternodes are hosted, it is not crap to say the NSA can probably get access trivially. When most are hosted on one cloud provider (something I read, don't know if it is true), then even an employee could potentially get access trivially.

You simply can't get anonymity without cryptography. The masternodes see everything in clear text. Dash is more likely to be spyware than anonymity. In fact, I've conjectured the wild speculation that Evan hasn't been worried about SEC because he might be on the dole of the NSA (but that is too conspiratorial to assert as likely).

Dark my ass. Dark where the NSA got its fist up the users' buttholes. I have often returned to the wild speculation that Dark(Vader)Coin was really a big data harvesting coin.

The official definition of spyware is any software that exposes your data out on the wire. It doesn't have to actually be intended to do that. Just opening the security hole is sufficient to meet the definition.

The official definition of spyware is any software that exposes your data out on the wire. It doesn't have to actually be intended to do that. Just opening the security hole is sufficient to meet the definition.

It's your table / your labels / your definitions so I don't mind really. I just needed some clarification because it was stated as fact that dash is ...spyware.

I already updated the table to link to our discussion and added "potentially improving". So hopefully it is clear to readers that the characterization is contested to some degree.

I somewhat agree with you that "spyware" is a bit harsh and doesn't imply that the mixing might work in some scenarios, except in another sense I think it is unfair if I don't draw attention to the fact that it can be the opposite of anonymity and actually increase the odds of intercepting user data in clear text in certain attack scenarios. For example, it provides prefiltered list of those who are attempting to be anonymous— which is one example of why multiple rounds won't help in some scenarios of "privacy".

[TPTB_need_war]

1) ShadowCash is proof of stake.

Ah yes, I actually knew that at one time. Corrected.

[CoinHoarder]

Feel free to try and attack a PoS chain and let me know how successful you are.

That happens all the time.  PoS coins have to use (increasingly convoluted) checkpoint schemes to fight 'nothing-at-stake' type attacks.

NovaCoin, for example, just got #rekt by one.  And Balthazar is 100 times smarter and better at coding than Dash's trash developer.

It would be such a terrible tragedy if Dash suffered catastrophic consensus failure about an hour before Madoffield's Miami talk starts...  

One instance in the history of PoS coins equals "happens all the time" ... lol

I have already explained this several times ITT. One instance of a successful attack does not mean the protocol is insecure. I know of way more PoW coins that have been successfully attacked than PoS coins, does that mean PoW is insecure? No, as I've already explained... NVC has been on its death bed for a while now. It was an obvious scam coin from its inception and never really caught on. Both PoW and PoS coins are vulnerable when there is low participation in securing their blockchains. Attacking an alive and well cryptocurrency, whether it is PoW or PoS, is very hard and/or expensive to do.

[bhokor]

Neither because both are pure POW and there are people running massive botnets and farms, sorry but i dont believe in this projects, we need innovation in distributions systems

[TPTB_need_war]

Does ShadowCoin have Proof-of-Stake governance?

[smooth]

Does ShadowCoin have Proof-of-Stake governance?

No, other than the implicit ability of stakeholders to soft fork or maybe hard fork. It doesn't have a voting or budget system like Dash.

Actually now that I think about it, the ability of stakeholders to hard fork in PoS is pretty clear. That's another way the consensus of PoS is absolutely weaker than PoW.

[TPTB_need_war]

Does ShadowCoin have Proof-of-Stake governance?

No, other than the implicit ability of stakeholders to soft fork or maybe hard fork. It doesn't have a voting or budget system like Dash.

Okay so my comparison table is correct with a "No" for the relevant row for ShadowCash, even though it is PoS.

Actually now that I think about it, the ability of stakeholders to hard fork in PoS is pretty clear. That's another way the consensus of PoS is absolutely weaker than PoW.

Yeah that is also the point I made to CoinHoarder today. I added a link to that point to the [1] footnote in the post with the comparison table. Those links will serve as a summary reference for us on the PoS vs. PoW issue.

[Spoetnik]

Just wait until Gleb Gamow's Altcoin section ban wears off January 1st 2016
Then he will be unleashed on the Altcoin scene full force !
Duck & cover Monero Shills your days are numbered..

Whatchya gonna when Gleb Gamow runs wild on YOU ?

Monero guys will have their little bums poking out from under their bed's !

MONERO COUNTDOWN 01/01/16

[jwinterm]

Wtf are you talking about Spoetdick? Gleb Gamow has been posting in Decred ANN thread (in the altcoin section) for the last week or so. For instance: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg13311147#msg13311147

[Spoetnik]

Wtf are you talking about Spoetdick? Gleb Gamow has been posting in Decred ANN thread (in the altcoin section) for the last week or so. For instance: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg13311147#msg13311147

Only by a technicality.. he was barred form the Alt Main section.
Hey believe what ya guys want.. i was just warning ya all to be nice.

Duck & Cover kidiots & Investards™ because January 1st is approaching fast.
He's been checking his list to see who is naughty or nice ROFL

CryptoGeddon 2016 is almost upon us REPENT NOW !

All the Dash's & Monero's etc are getting coal in their stocking i bet  

[shanem]

Both coins are dropping and I would rather hold bitcoin than any of these coins. I feel that anon coins fad have gone and nobody are interested in these coins anymore.

[AlexGR]

Both coins are dropping and I would rather hold bitcoin than any of these coins. I feel that anon coins fad have gone and nobody are interested in these coins anymore.

Nobody was interested in BTC prior to its spike either.

Wait until there is some random crackdown on BTC and then suddenly everyone is rushing to buy anon coins as a safe haven or diversification asset.

[busterzzz]

I wish I knew what was better but I cant figure it out because I cant find a wallet that works for monero. Oh well guess Ill stick with software that actually functions correctly and gets the job done.

[generalizethis]

I wish I knew what was better but I cant figure it out because I cant find a wallet that works for monero. Oh well guess Ill stick with software that actually functions correctly and gets the job done.

You do know that a shiny wallet can't hide bad tech forever, or did you miss that it takes 20+ hours to do a mix-in of 4 with dash? If that's working as intended, then you don't have very high standards.

[busterzzz]

I wish I knew what was better but I cant figure it out because I cant find a wallet that works for monero. Oh well guess Ill stick with software that actually functions correctly and gets the job done.

You do know that a shiny wallet can't hide bad tech forever, or did you miss that it takes 20+ hours to do a mix-in of 4 with dash? If that's working as intended, then you don't have very high standards.

Well I wasn't talking about mixing thanks though. I was talking about something as simple as sending/receiving a cryptocurrency, Dash works well in that regards. As far as mixing goes, I've played around with it a little bit. One example I can give is 4 rounds of darksend on 100 dash and it took about 1 hour and 30 minutes. I'm not sure where you get 24 hours from, probably a signature from a troll who hates Dash.

Anyways mixing is pretty slow Ill agree with you there even if your numbers don't match mine. But what's the other option? 3rd party mixer? Monero wallet that doesn't function and whose core dev spends a lot of time posting on social medias? Honestly tell me the better options right now?

There's billions of people in this world not everyone is a tech savy guru who can* install every piece of software on a whim. Monero might have good technology I honestly don't know. But I've never been given a reason to nudge myself into finding out anyways. Get a working wallet and maybe people might be interested. Or continue to support threads like this that only divide a group of individuals who have the same line of general thinking, privacy.

*edit one - changed can't to can

[DrkLvr_]

I wish I knew what was better but I cant figure it out because I cant find a wallet that works for monero. Oh well guess Ill stick with software that actually functions correctly and gets the job done.

You do know that a shiny wallet can't hide bad tech forever, or did you miss that it takes 20+ hours to do a mix-in of 4 with dash? If that's working as intended, then you don't have very high standards.

<excuse-making scam promotion idiocy deleted>

Unfortunately for most Dashtards you need atleast a double digit IQ to use Cryptonote coins at the moment. These DASH tards remind me of scam victims who deny they've been scammed no matter how many times the bank manager or police officer explains it to them.

transfer <mixin> <Deposit Address> <amount>

As for this:

I'm not sure where you get 24 hours from, probably a signature from a troll who hates Dash.

busterzzz  

[smooth]

transfer <mixin> <Deposit Address> <amount>

<mixin> is optional, and you will get a reasonable default, so you can just

transfer <address> <amount>

Seems difficult huh?

[TPTB_need_war]

Actually now that I think about it, the ability of stakeholders to hard fork in PoS is pretty clear. That's another way the consensus of PoS is absolutely weaker than PoW.

Yeah that is also the point I made to CoinHoarder today. I added a link to that point to the [1] footnote in the post with the comparison table. Those links will serve as a summary reference for us on the PoS vs. PoW issue.

Smooth, monsterer, Blockstream et al, I wish some of you with more resources than me could working from the following links and produce a more coherent white paper better explaining the distinction between the security model of PoS vs. PoW:

---8<---

[1]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13271013#msg13271013 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13276564#msg13276564 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13277243#msg13277243 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13281563#msg13281563 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13289767#msg13289767 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13296145#msg13296145 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13277560#msg13277560 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13281009#msg13281009 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13309800#msg13309800 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290263.msg13309719#msg13309719 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290263.msg13311936#msg13311936

I can't do it any time soon. I realize my highly functional limit is about 8 hours a day on the computer. Any more than that and I am zombified and just wasting a lot time being 50% coherent and getting ill.

I've heard from numerous people that the computer monitor stimulates cortisol and accumulated damage (especially from resisting sleep and a tired mind) is devastating.

All of you who are younger than me, this might eventually catch up to you. Make sure you get your breaks off the computer and outside. Once you enter pathological neuro-degenerative disease, even simple things of daily life become difficult and life looses its happy and enjoying moments. Do not think you are Superman, because you are not. You are human.

[ArticMine]

transfer <mixin> <Deposit Address> <amount>

<mixin> is optional, and you will get a reasonable default, so you can just

transfer <address> <amount>

Seems difficult huh?

busterzzz is making a valid point. The current official Monero binaries are over one year old, require over 9.2 GB of RAM, a 64bit processor and OS, and crash every few days. If one actually compiles from source then of course the situation is radically improved one actually gets a very lean, robust and efficient cli wallet that when synchronized requires approximately 100 MB of RAM. It also runs on both 32bit and 64 bit processors and operating systems.

Monero is a very actively developed coin where a major rewrite of the code has occurred over the last year, but in order to benefit from this one has to compile the code from source.  

Edit: This is the real place to get Monero software; https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero