[ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network

[CoinHoarder]

I am supposed to be getting some airdrop coins and I only registered for one account, and I joined the Decred forums. So, the developers could only possibly be 4999 of the possible participants in the air drop.  

Yes, the airdrop can be gamed, but the Decred developers did the best they could of policing it. The link I submitted in the original submission form was broken, and they replied back asking me for the correct link. At the very least they visited the links to make sure they were not broken. It wouldn't of taken too much more time to take a quick glance of the account.

Yes, this does not fully combat Sybil, but I don't think it's a huge deal. NEM was distributed similarly and has a market capitalization above 4 million USD. Complaining will not change how this goes down.. the developers seem to have made up their mind as to how the original distribution will happen. So, I suggest everyone simply chill out.. unless you are not a participant in the airdrop and complaining, because then I question your intentions.

[Gleb Gamow]

Miss the point much?
I could care less who gets, and how much free money due to the doling out of an airdrop, nor of the unscrupulous folks who managed to game the system a bit OR A LOT.

No, I didn't miss the point.  The simple fact is there are a few people on here complaining because maybe some folks got more than they did and that's unfair.  I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's frail sensibilities, but it is simply immature to complain that maybe somebody else got more free than they did.  Besides, even if we assume you're right and the process got scammed "A LOT", what purpose does it serve to get upset about it?  For anyone that was never expecting more than 168 coins, absolutely nothing changed for them.  Anyone expecting more than that is just setting themselves up for disappointment.  If it ends up being more, sweet, if it doesn't, it's what you already expected.

Missed again!

Somebody explain it to him. I suggest slowly.

[Gleb Gamow]

I am supposed to be getting some airdrop coins and I only registered for one account, and I joined the Decred forums. So, the developers could only possibly be 4999 of the possible participants in the air drop.  

Yes, the airdrop can be gamed, but the Decred developers did the best they could of policing it. The link I submitted in the original submission form was broken, and they replied back asking me for the correct link. At the very least they visited the links to make sure they were not broken. It wouldn't of taken too much more time to take a quick glance of the account.

Yes, this does not fully combat Sybil, but I don't think it's a huge deal. NEM was distributed similarly and has a market capitalization above 4 million USD. Complaining will not change how this goes down.. the developers seem to have made up their mind as to how the original distribution will happen. So, I suggest everyone simply chill out.. unless you are not a participant in the airdrop and complaining, because then I question your intentions.

Missed again!

[CoinHoarder]

Missed again!

I haven't come across you in years. I am amazed you are not locked up in the looney bin by now...

My post was not directed at you.. I'm not going to waste my time figuring out what you're talking about. I just took note of the general discourse and thought I'd voice my generalized opinion on the current topic.

[Gleb Gamow]

Missed again!

I haven't come across you in years. I am amazed you are not locked up in the looney bin by now...

My post was not directed at you.. I'm not going to waste my time figuring out what you're talking about. I just took note of the general discourse and thought I'd voice my generalized opinion on the current topic.

Funny! You're amazed that I'm not locked up in a looney bin by now, then go on as to how your post is not directed at me when it's my findings which you're referencing whether toward me or not. Hey, maybe some day will share the same cell whereupon we'll both drop our e's and play loony together.

BTW, are you Traxx187?

[socal]

Just wow

[dygus]

What about blake256 miner?

[decred]

Just curious after seeing this post from someone saying they were able to register (and receive confirmation) in the airdrop process using only an email address (not even a lightly used social media presence):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg13601490#msg13601490

Also, afaik there was not any verification that the email address I used to sign up has been checked that it is associated with this btctalk account, implying that you could claim any social media account as your own (that didn't have a public email), and then supply your own unrelated email address(es) to get an undeserved airdrop share.

I disagree that it would necessarily be a violation of privacy, since people are nominally registering with public social media accounts.

These are all valid concerns. The issue with making participants public is that they did not agree to that. They signed up in good faith and the project has to honour that relationship of trust. Maybe a great many would have no problem with being publicly associated with Decred, but there are people who have signed up and have an interest in the project who want to remain anonymous - and for good reason. There will be tremendous drama if associations are made public. For these reasons, it is left up to the individuals who have signed up to make that public - and it will always remain their decision alone. In fact, a decision was made early on that there will be no record kept of e-mails, URLs, and Decred addresses linked to each other beyond Monday. The project has no way of knowing who signed up after Monday once the addresses are final. Only you will know your association with the project if you possess the seed you verified and saved.

Anyway, I was just asking because I've probably seen at most 500 (and that's probably waaay overestimating) people commenting on this thread, irc, reddit, or twitter, so if it comes out that the number of airdrop participants is in the thousands, either we have to believe that the vast majority of airdrop participants are silent but honest participants, that someone or some people are gaming the system by claiming many more than a single share, or that the developers are inflating the number of users who signed up to keep the extra shares for themselves. The only way I could see that the developers can not just have to say, "trust us", is if the airdrop's social media accounts are publicly released, but apparently that isn't an option...

Decred has been under sustained attack almost since announcement. These attack vectors have evolved over time. Big projects came out against this project when it was still small trying to find its feet without any attempt to communicate with its members or community. To put that in perspective, harsh quotes were given in the media by ETH, NXT, and BitNation directly attacking Decred openly. That is not behaviour you will see from this project in the future - a little project will never be attacked like that. In fact, if the ideas are good, it will be empowered and credit given where it is earned. If the project does that in the future, you can take this quote and call it out on that basis. To simply try and bury a project with years of work put into it is disgusting. And that is just one attack - the point is there have been multiple attacks on the Decred, so what you are saying is absolutely real. There have been DDoS attempts, spamming, and of course, scamming attempts to get into the airdrop.

To dig deeper into the point you made, the biggest round of attempted scamming occurred in the last batch. In fact, the scamming attempts became prolific after the earlier attacks failed to slow the project down. This represented an evolution of attack. The entries were monitored in great detail as they came in throughout the whole process. If you do that, patterns begin to emerge. You start seeing how scammers change and evolve their behaviour. This is not to say every scammer was caught, but it means a larger pattern was stopped near the end when scammers flowed in through large coordinated efforts. This pattern did not exist in the earlier phases of the airdrop sign up. There is a bit of human behaviour involved here as well. The vast majority of people simply have a technical interest in the project and signed up using evidence of that overlapping interest. Most sign ups are just that - honest and clear attempts to help whoever is to review the application.

That is not to say there wasn't scamming, as there were many attempts, but the majority of these were culled. A lot of time and effort were put into that process, but only so much is reasonable without causing significant delays to the project. There is a balance to strike between reasonable privacy, meeting deadlines, and working on the actual software, and the project tries and always will try to do that. It does not mean everything is perfect on every front - such an expectation is not based in reality - but it means the balance can be addressed with integrity. That is part of the reason why the work on btcsuite was presented in extended form. This project is not a run-of-the-mill fly-by-night project. This is long-term and by a group of serious developers and people who care about technology and will always try and address your concerns when they are constructive. It is about building and working together with as little hierarchy and bullshit as possible. Having said that, if the airdrop stayed open for another week, there would have been another evolution and the airdrop would have suffered for it. When the airdrop closed, most scamming attempts were evolved but still dumb - this would not have been the case for long.

[_ingsoc]

Decred could've easily stated that they'll do their best to make sure that folks aren't gaming the system via participation in the airdrop for a limited 5,000 participants. But, Decred opted to up the ante after being approached with how the system could easily be gamed (by me - NO OTHERS to date), whereupon they responded with having layers of defense mechanisms in place to ward off said gaming. It was after such exchange, of which was after most have already applied for the airdrop, thus freeing up their personnel to conduct a more fuller investigatory process on my scammy ass, that I signed up to test their layers, passing with flying colors, opting to sign up over a dozen more times. supplying Decred with ONLY newly created email addresses, with all that I've checked also passing muster, each having a unique "Confirmation link" within, in essence gaming the system in the same way I warned Decred about in which they offered up how the concern is moot given...

You ignored this post by me soon after your initial concerns. I offered to investigate for you and help you. You ignored my request to look into it, but the offer still stands. I did this a day after the airdrop closed when there was still a mountain of work to get through. I'm going to be straight with you Gleb, there is no time for games. If you want to be constructive, I am your friend and I will help you make the system better, but if you don't want to work together, there is nothing that can be done. You are welcome here, as always, and people will work with you, but you must be reasonable and engage requests when the hand is extended to you - you cannot ignore such acts.

[socal]

Decred could've easily stated that they'll do their best to make sure that folks aren't gaming the system via participation in the airdrop for a limited 5,000 participants. But, Decred opted to up the ante after being approached with how the system could easily be gamed (by me - NO OTHERS to date), whereupon they responded with having layers of defense mechanisms in place to ward off said gaming. It was after such exchange, of which was after most have already applied for the airdrop, thus freeing up their personnel to conduct a more fuller investigatory process on my scammy ass, that I signed up to test their layers, passing with flying colors, opting to sign up over a dozen more times. supplying Decred with ONLY newly created email addresses, with all that I've checked also passing muster, each having a unique "Confirmation link" within, in essence gaming the system in the same way I warned Decred about in which they offered up how the concern is moot given...

You ignored this post by me soon after your initial concerns. I offered to investigate for you and help you. You ignored my request to look into it, but the offer still stands. I did this a day after the airdrop closed when there was still a mountain of work to get through. I'm going to be straight with you Gleb, there is no time for games. If you want to be constructive, I am your friend and I will help you make the system better, but if you don't want to work together, there is nothing that can be done. You are welcome here, as always, and people will work with you, but you must be reasonable and engage requests when the hand is extended to you - you cannot ignore such acts.

and this is why I back these guys. Well put _ingsoc

[davien]

I am supposed to be getting some airdrop coins and I only registered for one account, and I joined the Decred forums. So, the developers could only possibly be 4999 of the possible participants in the air drop.  

Yes, the airdrop can be gamed, but the Decred developers did the best they could of policing it. The link I submitted in the original submission form was broken, and they replied back asking me for the correct link. At the very least they visited the links to make sure they were not broken. It wouldn't of taken too much more time to take a quick glance of the account.

Yes, this does not fully combat Sybil, but I don't think it's a huge deal. NEM was distributed similarly and has a market capitalization above 4 million USD. Complaining will not change how this goes down.. the developers seem to have made up their mind as to how the original distribution will happen. So, I suggest everyone simply chill out.. unless you are not a participant in the airdrop and complaining, because then I question your intentions.

In the past few months/year we have seen many distribution methods over here on the forum. Personally i've never seen a method which can totally filter sockpuppets, even at those with ip checker, or whatever, you can  chear easily with a proxy changer. Decred's method it's pretty fair with proof of online presence and email address

[decred]

In the past few months/year we have seen many distribution methods over here on the forum. Personally i've never seen a method which can totally filter sockpuppets, even at those with ip checker, or whatever, you can  chear easily with a proxy changer. Decred's method it's pretty fair with proof of online presence and email address

Entries were checked based on IP addresses and timestamps as well as manually checking online presences and e-mail addresses. The majority of scammers thought the process would be automatic and did not vary their behaviour in that regard. Again, not saying the process is perfect, but reasonable checks were put in place to balance against the demands of software development, trying to meet deadlines, and addressing concerns on here and other platforms - whilst preserving users' privacy. Impersonation attempts started creeping in at the very end as attacks intensified, but these were also removed as they were flagged on other checks.

[iCEBREAKER]

Are there plans to release the identities of airdrop recipients? So people can see if a significant fraction of the airdrop went to newbie accounts or Twitter handles with a single tweet or friendless Facebookers, etc.

Absolutely not. This will never happen. It would be a complete violation of trust and an invasion of privacy.

Just curious after seeing this post from someone saying they were able to register (and receive confirmation) in the airdrop process using only an email address (not even a lightly used social media presence):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg13601490#msg13601490

Also, afaik there was not any verification that the email address I used to sign up has been checked that it is associated with this btctalk account, implying that you could claim any social media account as your own (that didn't have a public email), and then supply your own unrelated email address(es) to get an undeserved airdrop share.

I disagree that it would necessarily be a violation of privacy, since people are nominally registering with public social media accounts.

Anyway, I was just asking because I've probably seen at most 500 (and that's probably waaay overestimating) people commenting on this thread, irc, reddit, or twitter, so if it comes out that the number of airdrop participants is in the thousands, either we have to believe that the vast majority of airdrop participants are silent but honest participants, that someone or some people are gaming the system by claiming many more than a single share, or that the developers are inflating the number of users who signed up to keep the extra shares for themselves. The only way I could see that the developers can not just have to say, "trust us", is if the airdrop's social media accounts are publicly released, but apparently that isn't an option...

The Sybil attackers will dump their coins into stronger hands, so what difference does it make?

Maybe the unclaimed extra coins from <5000 participants should only be distributed among Legendary members!   

[davien]

In the past few months/year we have seen many distribution methods over here on the forum. Personally i've never seen a method which can totally filter sockpuppets, even at those with ip checker, or whatever, you can  chear easily with a proxy changer. Decred's method it's pretty fair with proof of online presence and email address

Entries were checked based on IP addresses and timestamps as well as manually checking online presences and e-mail addresses. The majority of scammers thought the process would be automatic and did not vary their behaviour in that regard. Again, not saying the process is perfect, but reasonable checks were put in place to balance against the demands of software development, trying to meet deadlines, and addressing concerns on here and other platforms - whilst preserving users' privacy. Impersonation attempts started creeping in at the very end as attacks intensified, but these were also removed as they were flagged on other checks.

oh, i understand. Then i don't really know why some trolls around here are complaining. If the IPs and timestamps were checked i'm sure that just pretty few sockpuppets entered. BTW, as mentioned 1000 times here, there is no perfect method to filter sockpuppets.

[rizzlarolla]

^ yet all glebs newbie accounts got through?

Anyway, no evaluation of my previous figures? (except sam b)
This is how it looks to me.


c0 value their input to date at $420,000, valuing decred @ $0.49. Then proceed to say the decred project will not be viable at less than $1 per decred which values their payment at $840,000.

So c0 are profiting 100% on their input.

Then c0 collect 50% of all PoS (15% of all blocks), another 100% profit ($450,000) on original input in year one.

decred dev fund starts with nothing.
The dev fund collects 10% of all block. (5% Less than c0 get from each block)
The dev fund receive very little or no PoS. (as they start at zero holding)

c0 earning are not committed to decred.
c0 can do as they wish with this profit.
decred could have just had a 25% dev block reward?


This coin is primarily for c0 to profit.
The dev funding aspect is very much secondary.

 
 

[iCEBREAKER]

the official forum already has more then 1000 members.
There is a decred's facebook group with around 350 investors just in my country, most of them participated in airdrop and few are bctalk members or official forum members.
No one of us will sell our coins from airdrop. We will buy more  

You don't have to be a douchetaco about it. Yes, there is apparently 1,023 members of the official forum controlled by the dev team; it would probably be completely impossible for them to inflate the number of users by changing a number in a database, right? I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just pointing out that there is no transparency in the process.

I submit that you are the douchetaco here, specifically because of your "completely impossible for them to inflate the number of users by changing a number in a database" sarcasm and generally because of your insistence on making perfect the enemy of good enough.

If you know how to do an airdrop better than decred, why didn't you volunteer to help them, instead of Monday Morning Quarterbacking?

Sounds like somebody is grumpy about missing out on the free XDC falling from the sky.   

If the airdrop was bungled as badly as you imply, you should have no trouble gobbling up some of the coins about to be dumped by fake participants.   

[ozboy2014]

Are there plans to release the identities of airdrop recipients? So people can see if a significant fraction of the airdrop went to newbie accounts or Twitter handles with a single tweet or friendless Facebookers, etc.

Absolutely not. This will never happen. It would be a complete violation of trust and an invasion of privacy.

Just curious after seeing this post from someone saying they were able to register (and receive confirmation) in the airdrop process using only an email address (not even a lightly used social media presence):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1290358.msg13601490#msg13601490

Also, afaik there was not any verification that the email address I used to sign up has been checked that it is associated with this btctalk account, implying that you could claim any social media account as your own (that didn't have a public email), and then supply your own unrelated email address(es) to get an undeserved airdrop share.

I disagree that it would necessarily be a violation of privacy, since people are nominally registering with public social media accounts.

Anyway, I was just asking because I've probably seen at most 500 (and that's probably waaay overestimating) people commenting on this thread, irc, reddit, or twitter, so if it comes out that the number of airdrop participants is in the thousands, either we have to believe that the vast majority of airdrop participants are silent but honest participants, that someone or some people are gaming the system by claiming many more than a single share, or that the developers are inflating the number of users who signed up to keep the extra shares for themselves. The only way I could see that the developers can not just have to say, "trust us", is if the airdrop's social media accounts are publicly released, but apparently that isn't an option...

The Sybil attackers will dump their coins into stronger hands, so what difference does it make?

Maybe the unclaimed extra coins from <5000 participants should only be distributed among Legendary members!   

Now that's not fair  can we extend the distribution to Hero Members as well ?? Lol

Devs can you advise what exchange(s) Decred is likely to be listed on? I'll have some BTCs waiting...

[aleix]

Then i don't really know why some trolls around here are complaining.

Trolls are the best signal for a healthy and highly promising currency. I would be worried if not here. Greed and envy are highly motivational.    

If Decred achieves something important, get used to it  
 

[iCEBREAKER]

Can i not give a fuck about the vetting process
so what if people got multiple times
it just means cheaper decred at the exchanges for us
why you people complain so much ??

Because this is Bitcointalk and this is the internet.

Complain about all the things!   

[aakashsangwan]

Is there any wallet available for Windows like bitcoin core or electrum