[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[Kevinrasf]

maybe it gets a little bit misunderstood.

But when you vote for someone who shares te forging rewards means that he also has to have a lot of uptime with his node, thus securing the network.

So basically in my eyes by getting forge rewards you also vote for someone who secures the network.

So a win/win for both parties.

But indeed people choose on who they vote so someone who shares the rewards has to get enough to become top 101.

[cc001]

maybe it gets a little bit misunderstood.

But when you vote for someone who shares te forging rewards means that he also has to have a lot of uptime with his node, thus securing the network.

So basically in my eyes by getting forge rewards you also vote for someone who secures the network.

So a win/win for both parties.

But indeed people choose on who they vote so someone who shares the rewards has to get enough to become top 101.

The only reason of forging/delegate is running/securing the network. The rewards are just an incentive to do so. And the voters should vote for good delegates to secure the network (to protect their valuable coins). Distributing the forging rewards to the voters is IMHO more like "buying votes". Distributing forging rewards to dapp development and marketing is better IMHO.

[ottobene]

That privileges gives delegate and node install?

[bitbitch]

can we trust the community manager, he is a new guy? not that i'm trusting anyone here, but seeing new people added from nothing is suspicious

 that's the spirit. i want to see his identity verified. passport upload.

[Kevinrasf]

can we trust the community manager, he is a new guy? not that i'm trusting anyone here, but seeing new people added from nothing is suspicious

 that's the spirit. i want to see his identity verified. passport upload.

he is a well known Crypti team member if I remember correctly.

So most people already know he is legit.

No reason to publish your passport lol.

[Buratino]

LISK needs more adoption. It is better to give BTER it's part of ICO coins. Let BTER team distribute LISK for customers.

[bitbitch]

If you can't follow instruction to put up a node then you will not know how to maintain it hence not going to get many votes.

Let me just make a few general comments and observations.  

Lots of people are talking about becoming delegates.  This is good.  

Many of these are saying (in one way or another), "Vote for me and I will give you a cut of the rewards" or "I won't vote for anybody that doesn't give me a cut of forging rewards".  This is bad.

The first job of a Lisk Active Delegate is SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.  Not make money for themselves.  Not make money for others.  SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.

I'm no different from anybody else.  You offer me money, I'll take it, and I'll take it if I am voted to be an Active Delegate.  But I argued early on with Max that offering forging rewards in Lisk was a mistake.  I finally shut up because Lisk is his coin and not mine, and I have been known to be wrong occasionally.  

Crypti is a pure non-inflationary Proof of Stake (PoS) coin with Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS) voting.

Lisk is an inflationary Proof of Work (PoW) coin with Delegated Proof of Stake With Forging Rewards (DPoSWFR) voting.  

DPoSWFR has the single advantage of offering a motivation for somebody to become an Active Delegate and put up a Lisk node.

DPoSWFR has several disadvantages.  DPoSWFR puts additional new votes and voting power directly and solely in the hands of the 101 Delegates who need votes to stay in their position of power (oligarchy).  DPoSWFR motivates the creation by one individual of multiple declared or even covert sock-puppet accounts to receive multiple rewards (monopoly / crime), at the expense of Lisk node decentralization.  DPoSWFR encourages a "miner-get-rich-quick" mentality (greed) that detracts from and even subverts the delegate prime directive of SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.  And DPoSWFR creates a motivational gap between Active Delegates running nodes for 150K Crypti in Year One, and Standby Delegates running nodes for no reward at all (income disparity).

People tend to think of Crypti as a "loser".  In fact Crypti had many successes and things to admire.  These include being a non-inflationary coin; the development of sidechains / dapps by Version 0.5.5; and finally, making true strides towards being a DPoS system with altruistic, unpaid delegates who did their job with no forging rewards.  I have a whole side post I believe is worth reading on this topic, "The Truth About Delegates" :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg13832600#msg13832600  

The cost of running 1 or even 101 DPoS cloud VPS or Raspberry Pi 2 Lisk nodes is negligible overhead in today's world, both for individuals who believe in Lisk enough to run a single node, and for the upcoming Lisk billion-dollar financial / sidechain-dapp ecosystem that could pay for running all 101 of them.  

This fact is the key to getting away from Bitcoin and Ethereum mining farms, whether ASIC or GPU based. This fact is the key to the future.  

I still think altruistic unpaid delegates would have been the best path for Lisk, however long it would take to find them.   Instead, we have greedy paid delegates.  

So be it.  But never forget this system is a choice, and alternatives exist.

And also never forget, the delegate prime directive is SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.  Not "make money".

i'm not deeply technical and it would be a learning curve, but securing the blockchain is critical and so i would be willing to 'do my bit' to make this happen. i'm not going to campaign for votes. if additional resources are needed to secure i'm here if required.

[Vega]

Lots of people are talking about becoming delegates.  This is good.  

Many of these are saying (in one way or another), "Vote for me and I will give you a cut of the rewards" or "I won't vote for anybody that doesn't give me a cut of forging rewards".  This is bad.

The first job of a Lisk Active Delegate is SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.  Not make money for themselves.  Not make money for others.  SECURE THE LISK BLOCKCHAIN.

Agreed. Frankly this whole think pissed me off in the last few days. More than once I typed out a post then deleted them without sending, with a "not worth it".

I'll run a delegate. I'll do it with the best of my ability. (And my best is pretty good. )
I'll keep it up to date, make any necessary steps to minimize downtime and other possbile problems.

I'll not however promote myself endlessly and campaign on my own behalf.
I'll not make myself more work for running and managing some kind of rakeback program.
Anyone who needs or care enough about this whole pool idea, most likely controls negligble amount of Lisk, so if they don't vote for me, I don't care.

[redcastle]

LISK needs more adoption. It is better to give BTER it's part of ICO coins. Let BTER team distribute LISK for customers.

BTER? Are you sure? In my opinion it's not good exchange...

[Emerge]

I agree at some parts with MalReynolds. Lisk is not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme, much like Bitcoin wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be an innovative part of technology we all have to work on to keep going.

Which is why we need delegates to secure the blockchain. In other words, that's the reason why we'll be needing good server specs,
reputable delegates and constant maintenance. Yes, it is quite immoral to make the network prone to some sort of Game of Thrones, but it's
how it needs to be done in order to keep the economy of Lisk going as a currency, and for delegates to stay delegates.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
JM Erestain

[Kevinrasf]

I agree at some parts with MalReynolds. Lisk is not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme, much like Bitcoin wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be an innovative part of technology we all have to work on to keep going.

Which is why we need delegates to secure the blockchain. In other words, that's the reason why we'll be needing good server specs,
reputable delegates and constant maintenance. Yes, it is quite immoral to make the network prone to some sort of Game of Thrones, but it's
how it needs to be done in order to keep the economy of Lisk going as a currency, and for delegates to stay delegates.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
JM Erestain

5 LISK per block with a 1-101 chance of you getting that fee is not a get rich quick scheme.

When people offer to give some of the fees as a thank you is a smart idea and they run a node which provides stability.

So again its a win/win.

Yes I do sound greedy as F but I really dont mind, I am Dutch after all.

[Emerge]

I agree at some parts with MalReynolds. Lisk is not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme, much like Bitcoin wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be an innovative part of technology we all have to work on to keep going.

Which is why we need delegates to secure the blockchain. In other words, that's the reason why we'll be needing good server specs,
reputable delegates and constant maintenance. Yes, it is quite immoral to make the network prone to some sort of Game of Thrones, but it's
how it needs to be done in order to keep the economy of Lisk going as a currency, and for delegates to stay delegates.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
JM Erestain

5 LISK per block with a 1-101 chance of you getting that fee is not a get rich quick scheme.

When people offer to give some of the fees as a thank you is a smart idea and they run a node which provides stability.

So again its a win/win.

Yes I do sound greedy as F but I really dont mind, I am Dutch after all.

With Lisk's value predicted to rise to up to 1$ per Lisk, it could be a really big pay every few minutes.
That's why many people want to become an active delegate for Lisk.

[bitbitch]

can we trust the community manager, he is a new guy? not that i'm trusting anyone here, but seeing new people added from nothing is suspicious

 that's the spirit. i want to see his identity verified. passport upload.

he is a well known Crypti team member if I reember correctly.

So most people already know he is legit.

No reason to publish you passport lol.

[Kevinrasf]

I agree at some parts with MalReynolds. Lisk is not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme, much like Bitcoin wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be an innovative part of technology we all have to work on to keep going.

Which is why we need delegates to secure the blockchain. In other words, that's the reason why we'll be needing good server specs,
reputable delegates and constant maintenance. Yes, it is quite immoral to make the network prone to some sort of Game of Thrones, but it's
how it needs to be done in order to keep the economy of Lisk going as a currency, and for delegates to stay delegates.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
JM Erestain

5 LISK per block with a 1-101 chance of you getting that fee is not a get rich quick scheme.

When people offer to give some of the fees as a thank you is a smart idea and they run a node which provides stability.

So again its a win/win.

Yes I do sound greedy as F but I really dont mind, I am Dutch after all.

With Lisk's value predicted to rise to up to 1$ per Lisk, it could be a really big pay every few minutes.
That's why many people want to become an active delegate for Lisk.

I never believe estimations.

Everybody can make fancy calculations.

The only thing I believe is CMC on the day it actually gets that high.

[Mrboot]

I agree at some parts with MalReynolds. Lisk is not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme, much like Bitcoin wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be an innovative part of technology we all have to work on to keep going.

Which is why we need delegates to secure the blockchain. In other words, that's the reason why we'll be needing good server specs,
reputable delegates and constant maintenance. Yes, it is quite immoral to make the network prone to some sort of Game of Thrones, but it's
how it needs to be done in order to keep the economy of Lisk going as a currency, and for delegates to stay delegates.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
JM Erestain

5 LISK per block with a 1-101 chance of you getting that fee is not a get rich quick scheme.

When people offer to give some of the fees as a thank you is a smart idea and they run a node which provides stability.

So again its a win/win.

Yes I do sound greedy as F but I really dont mind, I am Dutch after all.

With Lisk's value predicted to rise to up to 1$ per Lisk, it could be a really big pay every few minutes.
That's why many people want to become an active delegate for Lisk.

I never believe estimations.

Everybody can make fancy calculations.

The only thing I believe is CMC on the day it actually gets that high.

Yea but whats the point of having delegates that already dump everything on the first day again.

The only thing that will help if people actually working with this funds, make Dapps, make Websites promote Lisk.
Personal greed is not benefitial at all with Dpos and will be a waste of the coin if its heading that way.

[Piston Honda]

given the insane btc invested here (wherever the hell it all came from??) - will LISK be providing a legit breakdown doc showing where and how these funds will be spent and managed??  i think investors need serious transparency here with this kinda money.  no BS basic "whitepaper" either that so many devs drop.

[Mrboot]

given the insane btc invested here (wherever the hell it all came from??) - will LISK be providing a legit breakdown doc showing where and how these funds will be spent and managed??  i think investors need serious transparency here with this kinda money.  no BS basic "whitepaper" either that so many devs drop.

Piston, devs said already many times this funds will be used to the good, they didnt make a full plan cause you simply dont know what
you would raise. It could be 100 btc or 15000. Now they know im sure there planning a future roadmap, but first a good launch is needed.

And so far everything went really smooth and controlled make me complete calm with this investment.

[bitbitch]

given the insane btc invested here (wherever the hell it all came from??) - will LISK be providing a legit breakdown doc showing where and how these funds will be spent and managed??  i think investors need serious transparency here with this kinda money.  no BS basic "whitepaper" either that so many devs drop.

Piston, devs said already many times this funds will be used to the good, they didnt make a full plan cause you simply dont know what
you would raise. It could be 100 btc or 15000. Now they know im sure there planning a future roadmap, but first a good launch is needed.

And so far everything went really smooth and controlled make me complete calm with this investment.

i would expect both a  roadmap, and expenditure accounts to be published on a regular basis.
this is not la la land.  

[Piston Honda]

given the insane btc invested here (wherever the hell it all came from??) - will LISK be providing a legit breakdown doc showing where and how these funds will be spent and managed??  i think investors need serious transparency here with this kinda money.  no BS basic "whitepaper" either that so many devs drop.

Piston, devs said already many times this funds will be used to the good, they didnt make a full plan cause you simply dont know what
you would raise. It could be 100 btc or 15000. Now they know im sure there planning a future roadmap, but first a good launch is needed.

And so far everything went really smooth and controlled make me complete calm with this investment.

yeah well look how that worked out for paycoin investors...lol.  that's fine and dandy and why i'm asking NOW after 300 pages of reading lisk hype and like you said, they know how much they have to work with so to speak.  when you get this kinda btc and want to be on a professional/respected level of dev (as 90% of devs here are bullshit) then i expect a legit/business approach from list, because now they HAVE the funds to be at said level.  i say this because i've dealt with my fair share and you know who means business and who doesn't.  it's all about transparency here, if people expect and want their gov or corporations to be as such then that's even more reason for a decentralized crypto-currency "company" to do it - such is our 'market'.  will watch for this paperwork you mention......i'm sure i won't be the only one.

[Emerge]

Well, the people who made Paycoin were already scammy even prior to Paycoin anyway.
The devs have the money in ESCROW Which means they cannot use it unless the other 2 people allow them to