.

[PuertoLibre]

Of course,
Why did you think the above wouldn't happen?

It is kinda obvious. I just added the finishing touches since I wanted to.

-----------------------------

The only "retards" are those who have to wait until the [rather] obvious actually happens in order to "be amazed". Some things are pretty predictable while others are truly a surprise.

I mentioned the delay with BFL last month and what Josh was likely leaving out and still this trajectory continues to play out. I also mentioned that bASIC was likely to "collapse" [for entirely different reasons] than it actually did. There is probably alot more drama going on in the background than the community has been clued into. (IMO)

---------------------------

BFL is just another mess of a different kind. The retarded are the only ones who actually thought come Jan 14 they would somehow be shipping. There are numerous steps between the Chip Fab and the end product. Just the logistics of international transport of parts and customs clearance is enough to account for a large chunk of time.

Some out here in the community are so incredibly dim that they overlook various possibilities and facts and take the promises to heart that clearly overlook the obvious. Just the international logistics alone would let anyone with common sense understand that BFL was never going to be ready for Mid Jan.

Yet, idiots, are still waiting for Mid Jan 14 to be surprised. <face palm>

At best BFL will ship in quantity in late January at the very soonest with a much higher likelihood of Feb in general.

<Now cue the rep with insults and some hand waving to convince the remaining retards of their promising schedules.>

[1715439066]

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[PuertoLibre]

^ bahahahahah

he has edited his drama scenarios numerous times thus far...


ding ding ding

Aren't you "that guy" who is still waiting on his refund request to be processed?

Edit (Just for laughs):

Here is what butterfly labs brought to CES.

2x $100 android devices, some cases for a product they can't demonstrate, and a box of fans that they say will 1 day contain ASIC chips and they sold 100's at 30k each but haven't ever made one.

Every search for bitcoin had a butterfly labs pre order ad. 

They are still desperately grasping for cash and not able to show 1 ASIC device mining @ CES?

when I questioned Dave about butterflylabs ability to produce ASIC chips he accused me of not believing in bitcoin which sounded to me like classic scammer talk

At this point I would stay away I got that bad feeling again. ...

[buzzdave]

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Edit: So y'all can watch along at home, my refund request address is: 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ  I'm expecting a refund in the amount of $2199.98.

Edit: I do see that Dave emailed me about 3 hours ago asking for clarification.  Replied just now.

I don't normally read or post here but I did want to check in.  Bogart your refund is on the list for tomorrow.  This list is going to Tom *and* a new team member who is on a plane right now to go assist Tom.

I may leave for NY tomorrow too - we are trying to decide where I'm most effective.  Refunds are my highest priority, but it sure would be quicker if I had access to everything myself (i.e. if I could send the BTC transactions).

[LazyOtto]

I may leave for NY tomorrow too

It is this type of changing story which degrades confidence.

Earlier you stated you were going to NY. (see below)
Now you state you may.

Don't say you will do a thing and then not do it.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0
January 10, 2013, 06:15:24 PM » Tonight I will get on an 11:45PM red eye to NY

[buzzdave]

I may leave for NY tomorrow too

It is this type of changing story which degrades confidence.

Earlier you stated you were going to NY. (see below)
Now you state you may.

Don't say you will do a thing and then not do it.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0
January 10, 2013, 06:15:24 PM » Tonight I will get on an 11:45PM red eye to NY

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

[PuertoLibre]

I may leave for NY tomorrow too

It is this type of changing story which degrades confidence.

Earlier you stated you were going to NY. (see below)
Now you state you may.

Don't say you will do a thing and then not do it.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1032.0
January 10, 2013, 06:15:24 PM » Tonight I will get on an 11:45PM red eye to NY

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

@ Dave

Thanks for your hard work. I hope it goes well for both you and Tom.

Just add at the end "It is a fluid situation".

That should lead everyone to believe that things change from moment to moment.

[LazyOtto]

I could just not update people - that works well too.

What would have worked well was a one liner post:
"Turns out I'm not going tonight, however, a new team member is going in my stead to assist with the backlog."

But I do acknowledge that y'all are working on a compressed time-line these last few days.

[crazyates]

Its a dynamic situation to be sure.  I could just not update people - that works well too.

FTFY

[MichaelBliss]

UPDATE:
Got my refund from BFL around midnight this morning (about a day after I asked).  Thanks BFL, no hard feelings and good luck.  My single is hashing away, and I'd be a fool not to re-order my upgrade once these things actually EXIST.  I just can't afford to finance anybody's ASIC development any longer..

Still waiting on my larger refund from bASIC, I've been lead to believe I can expect it each day for the last few, so I really hope to receive it today.  Cablepair if your reading this, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY refund my orders #s: 945,1375,1480, 2090 to 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW. 

Help me get a good night's sleep.  I will post an update the moment I see it come through!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

UPDATE:
Got my refund from BFL around midnight this morning (about a day after I asked).  Thanks BFL, no hard feelings and good luck.  My single is hashing away, and I'd be a fool not to re-order my upgrade once these things actually EXIST.  I just can't afford to finance anybody's ASIC development any longer..

Still waiting on my larger refund from bASIC, I've been lead to believe I can expect it each day for the last few, so I really hope to receive it today.  Cablepair if your reading this, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY refund my orders #s: 945,1375,1480, 2090 to 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW. 

Help me get a good night's sleep.  I will post an update the moment I see it come through!

Looks like you got it: http://blockchain.info/address/1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW

[MichaelBliss]

***UPDATE***

Just received  BTC (USD equivalent) at 10:33PST, 15 minutes ago.  THANK YOU!

I think USD equivalent is fair (though I'm out 20%) *IF* my btc was converted when I sent it to USD.  I'll concede that's  fair, and I don't want more than what's just and fair.  (Never mind that I unwittingly provided an interest free loan - or rather, a negative interest loan!)

BUT, if my BTC wasn't converted to USD then it's only fair I get the exact amount of BTC I sent, yeah?  Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?  I'll take your word for it, and if the answer is "yes", then I'll agree we're all square.  But if you didn't convert my BTC, please do the right thing and send the remainder of my coins back (~54BTC).

Apart from this - thank you Dave and Tom and I sincerely wish you best of luck with the project.  I would only suggest you implement your transparency policy as promised, this would do a lot to get people like me back one day.

 

[Bogart]

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Edit: So y'all can watch along at home, my refund request address is: 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ  I'm expecting a refund in the amount of $2199.98.

Edit: I do see that Dave emailed me about 3 hours ago asking for clarification.  Replied just now.

I don't normally read or post here but I did want to check in.  Bogart your refund is on the list for tomorrow.  This list is going to Tom *and* a new team member who is on a plane right now to go assist Tom.

Received it today.  Two payments of 32.2861 BTC, and 122.52 BTC.  At the current mtgox price of $14.24, that's $2204.43.  I'm satisfied.

Thanks Dave and Tom.

[julz]

***UPDATE***

Just received  BTC (USD equivalent) at 10:33PST, 15 minutes ago.  THANK YOU!

I think USD equivalent is fair (though I'm out 20%) *IF* my btc was converted when I sent it to USD.  I'll concede that's  fair, and I don't want more than what's just and fair.  (Never mind that I unwittingly provided an interest free loan - or rather, a negative interest loan!)

BUT, if my BTC wasn't converted to USD then it's only fair I get the exact amount of BTC I sent, yeah?  Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?  I'll take your word for it, and if the answer is "yes", then I'll agree we're all square.  But if you didn't convert my BTC, please do the right thing and send the remainder of my coins back (~54BTC).

Apart from this - thank you Dave and Tom and I sincerely wish you best of luck with the project.  I would only suggest you implement your transparency policy as promised, this would do a lot to get people like me back one day.

Michael - I'd just like to jump in on the side of people against your stance, and hope you'll consider this.
I believe it was reasonably obvious that the purchase was *denominated* in USD - and as such any exchange fluctuation is purely at the pre-payer's risk. 
As I see it, this is utterly independent of whether your particular funds were converted from BTC or not. 
A BTC enterprise might dynamically adjust their various currency holdings based on their own risk strategies - and so long as they hold reasonable ratios to cover obligations and are 'solvent' - you shouldn't really have a leg to stand on regarding receiving the original BTC amount back.


FWIW - I have been on the 'beneficiary' side of this equation when dealing with a community member here before. I paid $1000 USD worth of BTC to Casascius - and in the meantime the BTC price fell.  When the deal fell through - I received slightly more BTC than I originally sent.  I would have been perfectly happy to receive less if the BTC price had risen - because Casascius had the foresight to make it clear from the beginning that the holding was denominated in USD.

This is where I think Tom could have done better, and indeed Bitcoin businesses in general:  they should explicitly explain the situation around refunds & returns - clearly stating what currency a particular deal is denominated in and perhaps going as far as to spell out the possible effects of currency fluctuations.

[LazyOtto]

Can cablepair or Dave confirm that you were having bitpay convert BTC into USD?

That, is none of your business.

You conveyed the asset / funds to them. After that it is under their control to do with as they wish.

[MichaelBliss]

Yeah julz made some good points.  Though  we probably all expected BTC to go up rather than down, so it's not exactly a 50/50 gamble w/ the exchange rate.  But yeah, I'm out > $700 on the deal and not expecting it or anything. Yeah, buyer beware, I see your guys' points too.  I should count my blessings  and consider myself lucky.

[makomk]

That, is none of your business.

You conveyed the asset / funds to them. After that it is under their control to do with as they wish.

It sort of is. If they're keeping everyone's money as bitcoins and the value of bitcoins goes down, they won't have the money to give everyone who demands a refund the full USD amount they're owed. It'd be as though they were taking everyone's pre-order funds, using them to gamble that Bitcoin prices will go up or stay the same, and then pocketing the winnings whilst their customers are the ones whose money is at risk.

[PuertoLibre]

That, is none of your business.

You conveyed the asset / funds to them. After that it is under their control to do with as they wish.

It sort of is. If they're keeping everyone's money as bitcoins and the value of bitcoins goes down, they won't have the money to give everyone who demands a refund the full USD amount they're owed. It'd be as though they were taking everyone's pre-order funds, using them to gamble that Bitcoin prices will go up or stay the same, and then pocketing the winnings whilst their customers are the ones whose money is at risk.

Last I checked refunds are not free.

Wire transfers cost money half of the time. Especially overseas.

Paypal would be unlikely to tolerate large numbers of refunds even on a business account. They are probably issuing cash to various accounts by means of various loop holes.

Transferring money from one domestic bank to another is probably the cheapest way to go about it.

[repentance]

Last I checked refunds are not free.

Wire transfers cost money half of the time. Especially overseas.

Paypal would be unlikely to tolerate large numbers of refunds even on a business account. They are probably issuing cash to various accounts by means of various loop holes.

Transferring money from one domestic bank to another is probably the cheapest way to go about it.

Based on what Dave's posted on their forums, they've been doing refunds via credit card and by BTC.

[miter_myles]

Requested a refund on 8 Jan / Tuesday - still nothing today..  CC was used.. I have held back on doing a charge back.. will give it until Tuesday next week.

[MichaelBliss]

At this point I suspect you'll get your refund (cuz I got mine placed on Monday), in BTC.  People bailing in April if the March deadline is missed, won't be so lucky.