Is Islam a religion of Peace?

[magnific61]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Every religion is ready to kill for defend itself. Actually this is not only religious rule, but life rule
Every country is also ready to kill for defend itself. It is also same individually
To be ready kill is bad if you want to exploite other's source and if you have an imperialist idea.
And that is not directly religious and it has no relation with islam far or near

[armansolis593]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Every religion is ready to kill for defend itself. Actually this is not only religious rule, but life rule
Every country is also ready to kill for defend itself. It is also same individually
To be ready kill is bad if you want to exploite other's source and if you have an imperialist idea.
And that is not directly religious and it has no relation with islam far or near

You are corrected about this,islam should not be mislead as a bad religion.
Everyone has a bad side and you cant take that away from people.
People are to blame here not the religion.

[magnific61]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Every religion is ready to kill for defend itself. Actually this is not only religious rule, but life rule
Every country is also ready to kill for defend itself. It is also same individually
To be ready kill is bad if you want to exploite other's source and if you have an imperialist idea.
And that is not directly religious and it has no relation with islam far or near

You are corrected about this,islam should not be mislead as a bad religion.
Everyone has a bad side and you cant take that away from people.
People are to blame here not the religion.

Yes. If we blame relligion about killings we should blame cristianity and judaism too. Because if we regard American history, christians killed 100 millions. We should UK that they killed 10 millions Aborgines in Australia, Africa and India. 1st Crusade 2nd Crusade were christian's killing. Judaism has no many members but they supported killings financialy and today they are killing muslims in Palestine. I even don't count Russian and Chinese murders

[magnific61]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Except the Quran explicitly tells you what to do and what to say, i.e. kill and lie about it.

All Quran books should be burned along with Bible and Talmud.  All of it, to every single copy or manuscript.
Erase it from human history.  It was a big mistake.

Only then humanity can move forward.

Abandon your 6th century myth if you have any sanity left in you.

I remind you that your atheism older than those religions. You lived in age of dinosorous

[Spendulus]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Except the Quran explicitly tells you what to do and what to say, i.e. kill and lie about it.

All Quran books should be burned along with Bible and Talmud.  All of it, to every single copy or manuscript.
Erase it from human history.  It was a big mistake.

Only then humanity can move forward.

Abandon your 6th century myth if you have any sanity left in you.

I remind you that your atheism older than those religions. You lived in age of dinosorous

Takiyya.

[BADecker]

The writings of the holy books of Islam are not writings of a religion of peace.

Most people want peace. That's why the people of Islam are going against their holy books and attempting to make peace.

How long will it take before the transformation is complete, and the violence in the holy writings be completely edited out? Or will the people simply form a different religion, even if they keep the name "Islam." After all, that's essentially what they are doing already.

[magnific61]

The writings of the holy books of Islam are not writings of a religion of peace.

Most people want peace. That's why the people of Islam are going against their holy books and attempting to make peace.

How long will it take before the transformation is complete, and the violence in the holy writings be completely edited out? Or will the people simply form a different religion, even if they keep the name "Islam." After all, that's essentially what they are doing already.

From what you wrote i understand that you don't know anything about islam.
Or please tell us what do you know?

[magnific61]

No matter what religion you are in it still depend on the people.
People are killed every day by gun or what ever.
Criminals who are in jail have religion to but they think of what religion they are when they did what they did.
So it really depend on the people and not on religion.

You wrote true.
Violence depends one's mentality and character.
I tried telling that maybe 1000 times but i think  they have a concealed thought about islam.

Problem is they use religious scripture (in this case Quran) as an excuse to kill.

Guys like you should stand against Quran, hell, all humanity should stand against it.

Remember, Muslims are prepared (and in most cases ready) to kill in the name of their religion.  That is what is fundamentally wrong with this religion.

Well if you look at the past most religion are ready to kill just defend what they believe in.
So islam is just being pressured as evil hence every one knows that its the mind of people not the religion.

Except the Quran explicitly tells you what to do and what to say, i.e. kill and lie about it.

All Quran books should be burned along with Bible and Talmud.  All of it, to every single copy or manuscript.
Erase it from human history.  It was a big mistake.

Only then humanity can move forward.

Abandon your 6th century myth if you have any sanity left in you.

I remind you that your atheism older than those religions. You lived in age of dinosorous

Takiyya.

Easy! If you don't have any answer, use word "takiyye"
And good satoshi only for a word. Good deal too

[BADecker]

The writings of the holy books of Islam are not writings of a religion of peace.

Most people want peace. That's why the people of Islam are going against their holy books and attempting to make peace.

How long will it take before the transformation is complete, and the violence in the holy writings be completely edited out? Or will the people simply form a different religion, even if they keep the name "Islam." After all, that's essentially what they are doing already.

From what you wrote i understand that you don't know anything about islam.
Or please tell us what do you know?

From http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

 

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

 

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

 

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"  This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

 

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

 

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

 

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

 

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"  Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for  2:193).  The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.  Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.  According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

 

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." 

 

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

 

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

 

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

 

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars).  This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack.  Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).  The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat.  Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

 

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

 

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad".  The context is obviously holy war.

 

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status.  This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

 

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

 

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."  See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"  This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."  Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.  It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

 

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."  How does the Quran define a true believer?

 

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

 

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."  Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."  (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

 

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion.  The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation.  One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74).  However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude."  He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.  (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia.  Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

 

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

 

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

 

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."   This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers.  It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.  If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

 

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."  Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad.  The wounded are to be held captive for ransom.  The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims.  Those who kill pass the test.

 

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"   

 

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."  Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.'  Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?  This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

 

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"  Islam is not about treating everyone equally.  There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.  Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

 

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"  Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict.  This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."  (See next verse, below).  Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

 

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."  This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above).  It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

 

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."  The root word of "Jihad" is used again here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

And there is a whole lot more listed at the site.

The people don't want to be violent. The writings tell them to be violent.

Live in fear, because if you aren't a good enough Muslim, your fellow Muslims might think that you are backsliding, and execute you. And you never know which ones of the group might do it.

Islam is propagated and exists through formal violence or the threat of violence... except when the people barely think about the holy writings of Islam.

[magnific61]

The writings of the holy books of Islam are not writings of a religion of peace.

Most people want peace. That's why the people of Islam are going against their holy books and attempting to make peace.

How long will it take before the transformation is complete, and the violence in the holy writings be completely edited out? Or will the people simply form a different religion, even if they keep the name "Islam." After all, that's essentially what they are doing already.

From what you wrote i understand that you don't know anything about islam.
Or please tell us what do you know?

From http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  (Translation is from the Noble Quran)  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

 

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

 

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

 

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"  This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

 

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

 

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

 

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

 

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"  Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for  2:193).  The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.  Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.  According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

 

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." 

 

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

 

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

 

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

 

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars).  This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack.  Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).  The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat.  Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

 

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

 

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad".  The context is obviously holy war.

 

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status.  This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

 

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

 

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."  See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"  This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."  Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.  It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

 

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."  How does the Quran define a true believer?

 

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

 

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."  Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."  (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

 

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion.  The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation.  One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74).  However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude."  He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.  (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia.  Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

 

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

 

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

 

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."   This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers.  It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.  If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

 

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost."  Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad.  The wounded are to be held captive for ransom.  The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims.  Those who kill pass the test.

 

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"   

 

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."  Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.'  Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?  This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

 

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"  Islam is not about treating everyone equally.  There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.  Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

 

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"  Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict.  This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."  (See next verse, below).  Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

 

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."  This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above).  It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

 

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."  The root word of "Jihad" is used again here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

And there is a whole lot more listed at the site.

The people don't want to be violent. The writings tell them to be violent.

Live in fear, because if you aren't a good enough Muslim, your fellow Muslims might think that you are backsliding, and execute you. And you never know which ones of the group might do it.

Islam is propagated and exists through formal violence or the threat of violence... except when the people barely think about the holy writings of Islam.

You stupid made copy past partly verses from a website you think that you will persuade people?
Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

[BADecker]

The writings of the holy books of Islam are not writings of a religion of peace.

Most people want peace. That's why the people of Islam are going against their holy books and attempting to make peace.

How long will it take before the transformation is complete, and the violence in the holy writings be completely edited out? Or will the people simply form a different religion, even if they keep the name "Islam." After all, that's essentially what they are doing already.

From what you wrote i understand that you don't know anything about islam.
Or please tell us what do you know?

From http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

...

And there is a whole lot more listed at the site.

The people don't want to be violent. The writings tell them to be violent.

Live in fear, because if you aren't a good enough Muslim, your fellow Muslims might think that you are backsliding, and execute you. And you never know which ones of the group might do it.

Islam is propagated and exists through formal violence or the threat of violence... except when the people barely think about the holy writings of Islam.

You stupid made copy past partly verses from a website you think that you will persuade people?

What's the matter? Having trouble realizing what Islam really is?

I don't care what people want to think. People believe anything that they want no matter what the facts are.

Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

You better look better. Islam attacks anyone who will not convert. It is true that the more peaceful Muslims give people of other religions a long time to convert, but they are not supposed to do that.

If you are a faithful Muslim, you are ordered to convert other people to Islam. If they won't convert, you are ordered to kill them. If any Muslim converts to something else, you are ordered to kill him.

The only peace that exists for Muslims is peace towards other faithful Muslims.

Your clerics that tell you all that BS that Islam is peaceful, are doing it so that the religion will not fail. They are lying if they tell you that the holy writings tell you to be peaceful to people of other religions, and let them go on not becoming Muslim.

Holy writings of Islam say to kill those who do not become Muslim.

[Spendulus]

....
Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

What is the penalty for leaving Islam?

Funny how, after their attempts at Takiyya fail at convincing anyone, and they are asked simple questions like this, they don't like to answer them.

More honesty would be nice.

[samlanhan1]

All religions seem to have these extreme duality. I'm sure the humans who are naturally peaceful will only see the peaceful side of Islam where as people who are more violent in nature will take to the violent aspects.

[Spendulus]

All religions seem to have these extreme duality. I'm sure the humans who are naturally peaceful will only see the peaceful side of Islam where as people who are more violent in nature will take to the violent aspects.

This question asked a couple posts above by af_newbie...

Quote from: magnific61 on Today at 12:59:30 PM
....
Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

What is the penalty for leaving Islam?

...does seem to show the lie in your assertion of moral equivalence, doesn't it?

[magnific61]

....
Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

What is the penalty for leaving Islam?

Have you left Islam? You're still alive

[Spendulus]

....
Yes, Quran orders fighting as Jihaad but tis order is curent if an enemy attacks you or your brother

What is the penalty for leaving Islam?

Have you left Islam? You're still alive

I have never been a member of Islam.  You well understand the context of the question, it refers to a member of your Islam making a conscious decision to leave Islam.

Here is a great example of the "Religion of Peace."

http://www.dawn.com/news/1233374

[bebeko]

18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years.  (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).  So this means islam is not a religion of peace.

[JesusHadAegis]

18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years.  (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).  So this means islam is not a religion of peace.

Ever heard of the Crusades? I am a Catholic and crusades is also called "the fight for the holy lands".Around 5,000,000 in the first 4 crusades, with another 1,000,000 in the Albigensian Crusade.
Then to weed out those nasty people that were left, there was The Holy Office to deal with, which accounted for around another 140,000. Mostly tortured first before suffering some disgusting fate that they dreamed up.
Maybe 200,000 witches, then you can add in the Wars of Religion in Europe that was about 3,400,000, The 30 Years War, 40% of Germany annihilated plus 1000`s of others.
Then there was the persecution of the Jews, about 450,000 up to the end of the 17th century and so on.

So many wars other wars for religion. So let's not be biased.

[Spendulus]

18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years.  (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).  So this means islam is not a religion of peace.

Ever heard of the Crusades? I am a Catholic and crusades is also called "the fight for the holy lands".Around 5,000,000 in the first 4 crusades, with another 1,000,000 in the Albigensian Crusade.
Then to weed out those nasty people that were left, there was The Holy Office to deal with, which accounted for around another 140,000. Mostly tortured first before suffering some disgusting fate that they dreamed up.
Maybe 200,000 witches, then you can add in the Wars of Religion in Europe that was about 3,400,000, The 30 Years War, 40% of Germany annihilated plus 1000`s of others.
Then there was the persecution of the Jews, about 450,000 up to the end of the 17th century and so on.

So many wars other wars for religion. So let's not be biased.

So "we're no better because we did the same kinds of horrible things a thousand years ago as they do today?"

This does not even rise to the level of a decent argument.  Because today is today, and that is what we are concerned about.

[bryant.coleman]

Ever heard of the Crusades? I am a Catholic and crusades is also called "the fight for the holy lands".Around 5,000,000 in the first 4 crusades, with another 1,000,000 in the Albigensian Crusade.
Then to weed out those nasty people that were left, there was The Holy Office to deal with, which accounted for around another 140,000. Mostly tortured first before suffering some disgusting fate that they dreamed up.
Maybe 200,000 witches, then you can add in the Wars of Religion in Europe that was about 3,400,000, The 30 Years War, 40% of Germany annihilated plus 1000`s of others.
Then there was the persecution of the Jews, about 450,000 up to the end of the 17th century and so on.

So many wars other wars for religion. So let's not be biased.

Your questions are self-explanatory. Humans evolve. We were violent 500 years ago. But we have become civilized now. That is exactly why you need to scroll back to the 13th and 14th centuries to find evidences for genocides and massacres perpetrated in the name of the other religions. The other religions have evolved. But Islam is still in the 13th century.